Hate Volume 6 Cervelo v Cannondale v Argon/Tufo Tape

Section head text.

Tufo Tubular Tape

@##=#<4,R>@##=#For some reason I’ve never totally trusted print or internet product reviews (he mused as he typed an internet review) – first person testimonials have always meant more to me. I’ve read good things about Tufo’s tubular tape, but never felt safe about risking a rolled tire based on some stranger’s experience. But I recently got three independent recommendations, all in the space of a month. First of all, John from Conrad’s said he won’t use glue on carbon rims any more. He doesn’t like the glue buildup. Zoltan swears by the stuff, and Mike Sherry got some used wheels and had a real hard time prying the tires off. Of course, those tires were glued on with Tufo tape.

Schmalz recently scored some 404’s and Schwalbe tires to test. Perfect opportunity for me to finally try out the tape, make it a triple test. Better yet, if the tape failed, it would be Schmalz’s butt, not mine.

Application is a snap, especially compared to my usual four day ritual with new wheels. Remove one backing, put the tape on the rim. Peel off a couple of inches of the other backing from both ends, mount the tire, and pull out the rest of the backing from under the tire. Inflate, ride, and within a couple of wheel revolutions, you’re done. Total time per wheel, about eight minutes.

After the ride, I deflated the tire and tested the bond: stronger than my glue jobs. I couldn’t budge it, and since I only pretend to hate Schmalz, I didn’t want to push it any more and compromise the glue job.

Time for Hate
Fast, clean, strong, what’s to hate? Well, if hate is mandatory, I’d grasp for straws and say that I enjoy gluing tires. It’s a soothing ritual that puts me in touch with cycling’s rich history.

Nah, I don’t buy that either.

So where does that leave us?
Use it! Unless you don’t trust internet reviews…

Sid’s Bikes Shootout
This is the first of a series of bike tech articles sponsored by Sid’s. We tested the flagship bikes of three makers, three makes that just happen to be carried by Sid’s. The R3 was provided by Sid’s, while the Six13 belongs to Alex, and the Gallium belongs to Justin. The Gallium is VisitBritain’s team bike, and VB is sponsored by Sid’s. Is that enough full disclosure for you?

Alex Where is it written that cyclists should only take advice from people who pedal faster or know more about bicycle manufacture or design than than they do?

Every time I read a review in the legitimate cycling trade it always seems to be written by some former top pro who has recently retired after years of riding many different bikes under all kinds of conditions, you know – someone who knows what he’s talking about. So we wondered, what if real cyclists, regular guys, not professionals with years of experience riding team bikes tested them? Well we found out – they gossiped like high school girls. When we weren’t gossiping there was a lot of “wait Andy, what’s vertical compliance again?”

Andy I think a lot of road bike reviews are crap. I don’t think it’s possible to remember how a bike feels. I thought it would be cool to have four idiots ride three bikes back to back using the same wheels, rate them independently, then compare the results. We may not know much, but we should be able to compare one bike to another. And if four idiots come to the same conclusion, then it would mean something, right?

Justin So there’s me, a guy with a minimal, to say the least, knowledge about bike bits and bobs doing a review of 3 of the finest machines Sid’s Bikes have to offer. Blind leading the blind? Anyway I’m guessing you know the drill by now – what do 4 jokers, an Argon 18 Gallium, a Cervelo R3 and a Cannondale Six13 have in common? They all found themselves at the bottom of River Road last Wednesday to try each other out. At this point I should point out a few things:

1. I’d had my wisdom teeth out 4 days previously so wasn’t in the best frame of being to begin with.

2. Whereas I’ve being climbing Alpine Hill for years and was downloading watts before Ken Harris, Ben Harris or even Emmylou Harris had heard of a Powertap I’m not best placed to comment on such issues as Vertical Compliance, Drivetrain Response or BB stiffness as quite frankly even after explanation from Andy I still don’t really “get it” – but here goes anyway.

Schmalz I am a bike products reviewing God and should be treated as such. My posterior can detect the slightest change from frame to frame. I rock in ways not even invented yet and I’m very big in Japan. My copy is mostly side swipe stuff (like my other stuff isn’t), and it still shakes the foundations of reviewing.

Andy I still say Schmalz is an idiot.

The R3 was not tested with it’s stock Alpha Q fork. This fork requires an alloy insert epoxied inside the steerer after it’s been cut down. With it’s extremely thin 2mm steerer tube, there was no way we were going to ride that fork without the insert. I mounted my Kuips fork for this test.

Cannondale Six13


If this were a legit bike test that garbage can would’ve been moved.

Schmalz It’s a plastic/aluminum combo platter here, I expected the Six13 to behave a lot like my Cannondale CAAD8, and it did. The Six13 is just more comfortable and lighter. The bike goes quickly where you want it to, it descends predictably (which is good), and it’s not at all like sitting on a jackhammer. A solid performance all around.

Alex Since the introduction of the Caad 7 the Cannondales have practically become standard issue in some parts of the country for racers, especially crit riders. They are light, super stiff with very aggressive geometry and best of all if you wrap on around a pole you quickly can replace it for 4-500 bucks on ebay. Geometry-wise the Argon and the Cannondale have more in common with one another than the Cervelo which has a slightly more relaxed seat tube that gives it a more traditional road bike feel.

Andy I have a grudge against Cannondale as a company for some silly TT and MTB bikes, so I was surprised by how much I liked this bike. It’s incredibly light, feels really quick and responsive. It’s so much fun to ride it made me want to attack Schmalz and Justin on a climb, which is a death wish for a lardbutt like me. It’s very stiff out of the saddle – the main triangle doesn’t seem to flex much. Likewise, the all aluminum rear triangle delivered power to the road very efficiently. The tradeoff is that this is the least comfortable of the three bikes. It rattled me the most, with plenty of road buzz.

Justin Fairly easy spin up. Felt great if a little harsh underneath. When I stood up it felt good when I sat down it felt good. All in all felt good. Best feature: Alex’s funky handlebars. Worst feature: Not that comfy over the bumps.

Cervelo R3

Schmalz This bike at first seemed wicked light – like crazy light, maybe even scary light. Carbon has always seemed like plastic to me, in the past I’d flick a carbon frame with my finger and the noise was something you would hear when you hit a plastic car bumper or something of that ilk. So, I was ready to find fault – just so I wouldn’t start lusting after carbon frames. I have daughters to educate, after all. Well, the Cervelo was just fun to ride, the ridiculous detail later in this article, but the bike was just a, “Gee whiz, this is fun!” experience. There, I like a plastic bike, I said it. I also did one hill effort on this frame and came in at 6:02. After a tough race the night before. Chew on that, Shen.
 
Andy Within one wheel revolution of hopping on the Cervelo, I knew I was riding something special. It’s the strange combination of incredible stiffness and a smooth ride that jumps out at you. It feels lighter than it really is, stiffer than it should. You feel the road, but not as road buzz – much more comfortable than the Cannondale. Even though this bike is supposed to be stiffer than the carbon Soloist, I was able to get the chainring to rub the front derailer out of the saddle. Still, power transmission seemed really good. The slightest pressure on the pedal translates to a kick in the ass from the saddle – maybe it’s those gigantic chainstays. Now for some stupid mystical talk that drives me crazy when I see it in other bike reviews: you can almost feel how thin the tubes are on this bike. Compared to the Gallium or my Taiwanese carbon Viner, the R3 has a tighter, higher-strung ride.

Justin Again fairly casual effort though with a few out of the saddle 15 revolution efforts. This did feel noticeably more responsive than the Cannondale. My seat was a little low for it to feel truly comfortable whilst sitting down but there was no doubt when you want to give it some ‘welly’ the Cervelo needed no second invitation. It was ‘there’. On the way down blew out a tire at 35 mph which quite frankly nearly gave me a heart attack – $5k of someone else’s bike going nearly out of control but I need not have worried – all came to an amicable stop. Best Feature: The responsiveness when out of the saddle. Worst Feature: My inability to get the right saddle height and avoid blow outs.

Alex The Cervelo seemed as stiff as the Cannondale but the ride was more refined when I stood up it really jumped. Although aluminum bikes have come a long way since they earned their reputation as overly harsh rides, the tradeoff becomes immediately apparent when switching from a very stiff carbon bike to a mostly aluminum one (the seat tube and the down top are carbon on the c’dale). On the aluminum bike you feel the road more precisely whereas the carbon bikes feels like you are riding on a soft carpet.

Argon Gallium

Justin Same effort as with the Cervelo. Have to be honest didn’t feel quite as responsive as the Cervelo but once over the first 3 or 4 pedal strokes no noticeable difference. Felt better climbing in the saddle but that’s more due to the height etc. I’m sure. Best feature: Consistency. Worst feature: Not quite as snappy as the Cervelo.

Andy Definitely the least snappy of the three bikes. I don’t know if it’s actually slower, but the relatively sluggish feel doesn’t inspire you to be frisky. However, bombing down the rutted descent was most secure on this bike. It’s the most ‘Cadillac’ of the three rides.

Schmalz This was my least favorite of the three frames. Not that it was a bad frame; it’s just not as nice as the other two frames. I don’t feel the need to go into any more detail about my least favorite frame. We don’t get paid by the word here, do we?

Alex Its not like I could flex the bottom bracket but of the three bikes the Argon it felt the least responsive when I stood up, conversely it also dulled the most road shock. The handling on the Argon was surprising considering what a comfortable ride it gave. The Argon rode like a Cadillac but it’s geometry is well suited for crits.

Random final thoughts

Alex on aesthetics “Squoval!” “I don’t know a lot about bikes but I know what I likes to look at” – in this category the Cervelo is tough to beat; its looks real cool, especially with that super fat chainstays/bottom bracket and the unexpectedly trim seat stays; they are slim almost to the point of being decorative, and not load bearing. Things like “Squoval” (means square/oval) tubes simply didn’t exist before CAD computer design. Now in this brave post-Frank Gehry computer pre-visualized world, even your stapler has to be sqoval.

It’s Canadian cousin the Argon has some nicer looking bikes in their line up. I found the little wind vent motif on the head tub/ down tube thing dubious, functionally and aesthetically; a bit like tailfins on a 50’s sedan.

The Cannondale maintains its traditional New Englanders form follows function aesthetic, though it had tried to dress things up in the past few years you will not confuse it with a Colnago. Also the word “Cannondale” itself, which was derived from a train station in Connecticut, is a bit ungainly and long, so it’s difficult make an elegant logo out of. Lately they have been putting the decals on big and often to compensate.

Schmalz on prettiness I like fades, I make no secret of that, and I will say firstly that none of these bikes had fades – well, the Cannondale had a red fade going over into the carbon on the tubes, but it was no tri-color rainbow-a-thon by any means. The Argon 18 was a nice white, but I wouldn’t want a white bike, it would wear out the scrubbing bubbles. Do not anger the bubbles. The Cannondale had its quasi-fade, but a quasi-fade is like quasi-pregnant. The Cervelo wins this battle of the un-faded. A nice, clean graphic look. Black, red and white go well together.

Justin Conclusion: 3 great bikes, all felt great but above all I’m not the guy to do in depth bike reviews. I could express a preference but what would that mean as it’s all down to individual taste. Whatever floats your boat but probaly above all whatever gets you up the hill and around the bend the quickest.

Andy We tried to not compare notes while riding – I didn’t want us to influence each other’s thinking. But after a while it was painfully obvious that the differences between the bikes were so big that we’d pretty much agree. The R3 did the best job of combining contradictory traits. It’s stiff but comfortable, strong but light, ridiculously fun to ride. The Six13 is racy and quick, but you pay for it in comfort. The Gallium is the least fun to ride, but it’s still light and stiff, and maybe it’ll leave you fresher at the end of a long race.

No, not more Schmalz!
Compliance
None of these bikes are taint rattlers, they all use the benefit of that carbon to soften bumps and such. I would say the Argon 18 was the smoothest riding – like a carbon Buick.
 
Stiffness/Acceleration
The bike with the most pop by far was the Cervelo, that acre of bottom bracket down there must have something to do with it. It seemed that every pedal pump gets recorded right away. A nice feeling and not too jumpy by any means.
 
The Cannondale was a close second, it just seemed the Cervelo was a little stiffer.
 
The Argon 18 seemed very sluggy (sure – it’s a word) in this circumstance. Like stepping in carbon quicksand by comparison.
 
Stability/Stupid schmalz test that means nothing
On each bike I could do my standing no hands trick; I’m not sure whether this is a testament to the steadiness of the bikes or a show of my skillz. Let’s go with the former.
 
On each bike I also slammed on the brakes going down River Road to see if there was any shimmy or frightening movements (smart, right?). All bikes deccelerated with no problems, the Cervelo seemed to be in control the most. The Argon 18 was second, and the Cannondale was hard to figure because it had Zero Gravity brakes on it. That’s another story, though.
 

27 Comments

Bill Cassel

Nice job guys, the great thing about this is that its the one bike review I’ve ever read that doesn’t have an ad for one of the bikes on the adjacent page.

kwk

cannondales really sucked pre Cipo days. they were almost un-rideable, the rear drop out was a comical attempt to differentiate themselves. It was funny how they sold that funkey drop out as a feature but dumped it as soon as Cipo told them it sucked. they have come a long way.

Joel

Andy,
I recal you took a soloist carbon for a spin a few months ago. How did it compare to the R3?

Andy

Well, I did say that you can’t remember how bikes feel. The R3 is supposed to be stiffer than the Soloist, but I could get the chain to rub the front derailer out of the saddle, didn’t do that with the Soloist. Other than that I’m going to keep my trap shut, it’s just impossible to compare the two, riding them a few months apart.

Soon

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Alex - hollogram SI crank/BB

The Crank is very stiff and light but a little less comfortable than a dura ace or campy

Andrew

Since this is the real world. You guys didn’t talk about value or price point. Or did I miss the point

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Jon O'b

Cool. When I went to college I lived down the street from the hole in the wall bike store that became Argon 18. It was always daunting to go in because it was kinda dark and dingy and someone was always welding and swearing away in the back, but I could find the right tubes there. It’s cool to see that hole-in-the-wall startup survive and go on to compete internationally.

I haven’t had the change to ride or buy an Argon 18 yet but will certainly try one out the next time around.

JDM

I always say that once you’re in the $2800+ bike range there all going to be pretty impressive I’m always looking for a test of sub $2000. raceable bikes (if there is such a thing anymore). maybe even sub $ 1400??

jonathan p.

I think you can still get a great bike for around $2k, if you don’t mind aluminum. if I’m not mistaken a cervelo soloist (not carbon) with ultegra goes for around that…
also felt f55 with dura ace. Both great bikes.

Andy

Bill: We’re trying to sell our souls as fast as we can, no takers.

Andrew: I’m embarassed to say I don’t know the Six13 frame price. The R3 is $2800, Gallium $2700.

JDM: That’s a great idea, we’ll get cracking on another test. I think we’ll do a high end carbon vs. a mid range aluminum bike.

Alex O

You can buy a built up 2006 Cannondale SIX 13 Pro 2 with
Mavic Ksyrium Elite and Shimano Ultegra 10 speed for $2,399.99

David Blume

IMHO Tufo Tape is pretty good for most uses. Probably fine for racing Floyd, CP, PP – mostly flat or rolling races, etc. Based on the report at the link below, I’d be cautious using it where heavy braking is required. If you believe these testing methods, clearly weaker than glue – and the latex strip that the Tufo Tape lays down is a bitch to get off the tire for repeat applications.

http://www.engr.ku.edu/ktl/bicycle/Part7.pdf

Littlefield

This ham-fisted amateur recently glued up his first set of tubulars with the TUFO extreme tape. It was so easy I was certain I was doing something wrong, what with all the lore and voodoo you hear about gluing on sew-ups. Granted this is just anecdotal evidence but I’ve done a few races on these, including Bear, where rim-cooking is followed by high speed cornering in a few spots. I also did the Tour de Parc, which has a 25 mph hairpin, without a hint of the tire budging. I haven’t yet had occasion to have to change a tire, but I’ve been told by dedicated "tapers" that it’s gonna take gorilla-like force to get the deflated tire off when the time comes. That makes me feel better when I lean the bike into a corner at speed. And there’s no skanky glue on my sidewalls.

jonathan

i’m thinking about Spinergy Stealth SS carbon clinchers…about
$727. – 1620g. anyone know about these?

Six13 price and frame trade

Without any discounts, a six13 is supposed to be around $1400 frame and fork. Getting one built up is not that much more. Cannondale offers a frame trade deal to keep people on their bikes. If you have an older Cdale, go to a shop and ask to trade up. Cannondale has a printed list of what they will give you for your old frame towards what you want. If you know how to strip your bike to the frame/fork, its a great deal. That how I got mine.

That said, in the 5 months I’ve been training/racing this bike, the lugs bonding the aluminum and carbon are fatiguing already. The paint is being pushed off the bike at all 4 locations of lug placement. Its still rideable, but I’m still getting a Cdale rep to check it out.

Six13 price and frame trade

Without any discounts, a six13 is supposed to be around $1400 frame and fork. Getting one built up is not that much more. Cannondale offers a frame trade deal to keep people on their bikes. If you have an older Cdale, go to a shop and ask to trade up. Cannondale has a printed list of what they will give you for your old frame towards what you want. If you know how to strip your bike to the frame/fork, its a great deal. That how I got mine.

That said, in the 5 months I’ve been training/racing this bike, the lugs bonding the aluminum and carbon are fatiguing already. The paint is being pushed off the bike at all 4 locations of lug placement. Its still rideable, but I’m still getting a Cdale rep to check it out.

Brian R

Tape Hate — a bike shop used tape to mount a tire for me at some point (I always use glue, so I probably had the bike in for some work and had new tires mounted). When the tire flatted the following season the tape was stuck on so hard that removing the tire pulled up a inch long section of carbon from the wheel — I’m sticking to glue

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