BB30? BBPurdy!

Sensei desmystifies new standard

BB30, a new bottom bracket standard invented by Cannondale in 2000, is gaining momentum. With a bigger 30mm spindle and pressed-in bearings, BB30 is designed to be lighter and stiffer, with an enormous shell that could make the frame stiffer as well. Given the industry’s inexorable movement towards bigger diameter and stiffer components, BB30 could well become the standard in a few years. I took a trip to Mark Purdy’s shop to have a Quarq BB30 Cinqo installed and find out more about the system.

My BH came with these simple and elegant adapter cups to take the BB30 shell down to the Shimano standard. These will have to be knocked out first.

Here’s that big spindle. There’s a ‘preload adjuster’ to take up the slack in the system with a set screw to lock it in. Purdy points out that it’s not technically setting preload, like in a cup and cone system. Cartridge bearings don’t need to be preloaded to keep things in line, in fact, they should have minimal axial load. The adjuster just takes out the slop in the system. Some cranksets use a wave ring instead, both work fine.

Purdy first knocks the bearings out of the BH adapter cups, then uses a headset removal tool to remove the cups. This is a rare appearance for the headset tool since the advent of internal headsets.

There’s the shell, a smooth bore with two channels. More on those channels later.

Here’s what you get with a bearing kit: 2 outer plates, 2 bearings, and 2 circlips. 60 grams total, or approximately 40 grams less than an outboard BB.

The ever fastidious Purdy cleans the shell with acetone and digs the loctite out of the channels with a dental pick. After he finished with my bike he gave me a root canal.

After greasing, the circlips are snapped into those channels. They serve as a backstop for the bearings.

Since the BB30 shell is completely sealed inside the frame, Purdy recommends taking out the inboard bearing seals to lower friction a touch.

Bearing, less one seal.

The Park BB30 tool set includes a bearing knockout tool as well as adapters for pressing the bearings.

Here’s another tool making a cameo appearance. The Park headset press is used to install the bearings. Purdy adds just a touch of pressure after he feels the bearings bottom out on the circlips.

Bearings in, slightly recessed. The need for specialized tools pretty much preclude the home mechanic from attempting this job.

The non drive side crankarm goes in.

The drive side, with a collar slipped over the spindle. Next to it is a magnet for the Quarq Cinqo.

Drive side bolted on with a giant torque wrench.

Slop taken out with the preload adjuster and set in place with a 2mm allen.

Purdy fine tunes the front shifting.

All done. Despite the weight saved and stiffness gained, Purdy does have a few reservations about the system.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so when you make the crankset stiffer, flex simply migrates to other places. The first Shimano outboard BB cranks made some frames flex so much that it ruined front derailleur shifting. With each step up in crank stiffness frame designers have had to respond in kind and increase frame stiffness as well. While this improves drivetrain efficiency, Purdy wonders if comfort is being sacrificed.

The non drive side crank sits pretty far outboard of the shell, which means the crank takes a fairly straight shot to the pedal axle. This increases the likelihood of heel strikes and wear on the crankarm surface.

Also, the press fit interfaces of BB30 can be a source of creaks. Mechanics differ on whether the interface should have grease, loctite, or nothing at all. Purdy prefers grease, and stresses that careful installation is the key to silent operation.

Finally, there is no tool for milling the shell. If the shell diameter is off, bearings can be compressed when installed. This is bad for steel bearings, but terrible for ceramic bearings, which are less elastic. Purdy looks forward to the introduction of a milling tool so he can confidently recommend ceramic bearings if a customer requests it. UPDATE: The tool is now available, and now Purdy reams out every BB30 frame to ensure proper fit. Make sure your shop has the tool if you’re having your BB30 bike built there.

And the verdict? I really believe in the power of suggestion, so I hate to report ‘sensations’. But the already fantastic BH G5 felt great – smooth, stiff, silent. I was also happy to find that my heel never rubbed the non drive side crankarm, despite the fact that I use Speedplays. If you don’t want to trust my subjective opinions (and you shouldn’t), consider this equally useless piece of evidence. Schmalz exceeded his current max wattage by 50 watts on his G5 with a Sram Force crankset (measured with a Powertap, which is downstream of the crank/BB), and he placed third in field sprint the day he got his bike. So there you go, BB30 is magic.

Have questions about BB30? Post them below and Purdy will respond.

52 Comments

Stoffel

It is clear that I will not be able to do this myself and I guess it will have to be done at some point and Aaron, if it is the bike I’m thinking of, I think Mark would be able to make a huge difference to your setup.

The Sensei

Aaron– I charge $40 for the labor to remove your old setup and install new. The bearings can range from about $60 for good old steel up to $160 or more for Ceramic.

Titouan– That is indeed a good tool kit, but the number of times an individual is likely to use it, it may not be worth it. You can come in to my shop and use a fully equipped workstaion for $20/hour. You have access to every tool in the place and I’m around to answer any questions and make sure nothing goes horribly wrong.

Aurelien– Unfortunately, the FSA tool isn’t available, yet. I am eagerly awaiting it’s arrival, though.

FYI, The full beard is a winter thing. It’s too hot in the summer!

700x25

“Since the BB30 shell is completely sealed inside the frame, Purdy recommends taking out the inboard bearing seals to lower friction a touch.”
Nice helpful bit of information- shows how little my mechanic knows.

Senne Chainsuck

if you pop the inner-facing seals, won’t grease trickle out as the bearings spin?

Battaglin the Baguine

And you thought it was juice…. he removed all his bearing seals! Now we know.

Rinaldo Seattube

This guy is simply the best we have.
It is so worth the trip to get it done right the first time every time.
Keep it up Mark.

The Sensei

Please don’t rush home tonight and rip all the seals off every bearing. Although seals do add some drag, they also perform a critical function. Some seals are more necessary than others. If you remove any seal, it will allow the lubricant to go away a bit faster, thus requiring more frequent serviceing. On your race bike you have a choice to make. lower friction or longer life. Just like with tires, you can put on a thick, super durable tire that is heavy and rides like shit… or you can use light, fast race day rubber that punctures more easily. That’s a choice you as the rider get to make. This is another one of those choices. Removing a seal is not the appropriate move for everyone. But if you regularly maintain your bike and want to scrub off any unnecesary friction then go for it. If you have a dedicated TT bike tht you only ride a handful of times each year, then removing all the seals. Seal drag is probably costing you in the neighborhood of 20 watts on your hubs, Der. pulleys and BB bearings. But you have to pull the bike apart, clean it and re-lube everything after each ride 😉

The Sensei

… But Pam is commonly used for such applications. (she’s such a slut!)

20 watts is not a guarentee or promise of any kind. But it is a very realistic guess.

lee3

Hey Dan…
chk this link out.

Its much better than cyclingfans because it has video excerpts as well as live feed and text links all consolidated along with photo’s + it allows you to select the race you’d like to follow – any professional and continental pro race. It’s almost better than cyclingtv because, well one doesnt have to pay for it and its jam packed full of events!

http://www.steephill.tv/

enjoy!

West Coast Reader

So some people are using BB30 adapters to continue to use regular BB shells. Are these more prone to creek like mad? or creek more than non-BB30 adapter setup? I’m eye balling a frame with BB30 but am on the fence on continuing to use a pre-existing BB and cranks instead of buying a whole new crankset.

Then to the author (Andy), you say its possibly lighter but don’t provide any data. Did you weigh pre and post BB30 setup? To prove, disprove it on your setup? Just nit picking and just want a known listing if it is lighter or not, I know its probably only 10 grams or so but still good to see.

Andy

BB30 bearings 40 grams lighter than outboard BB, BB30 Cinqo about 60 grams lighter than Sram Cinqo.

andrei rimstrip

common sense says that the more contact surfaces (bb shell to sleeve, sleeve to bb) the more likely there is to be noise.

Arnaud Torque

I sincerely doubt all the seals on your bike account for 20 watts of drag. Maybe 5. If it was anything significant or testable, we’d have FSA et all sell us on their brand new dragless seal system that turns us all into Alberto Contador.

The Sensei

Of course, the amount of drag you eliminate by removing seals depends on how much drag you had to begin with. Some seals are more effective than others, while other seals privide less drag, but less of a seal. Since niether one of us is actually going to do a test to prove or disprove. I’ll re-state my earlier quote (in case you missed it) “Seal drag is probably costing you in the neighborhood of 20 watts on your hubs, Der. pulleys and BB bearings.” Note the clever useage of the terms “probably” and “neighborhood”. 20 watts may be a high estimate, but 5 watts is a pretty low estimate. You’ll save that on the BB alone.

When using an adapter to “downsize” to a traditional shell… Since the adapter is press-fit and uses loctite, the chance of creaking is pretty low. I haven’t noticed it on any of the adapters I’ve seen in use.

Lucas Seatmast

Some numbers for comparison…
SRAM Force Crank w/ GXP BB = 791 grams
SRAM Force Crank w/ BB30 = 645 grams
SRAM Red Crank w/ GXP BB = 760 grams
SRAM Red Crank w/ BB30 = 630 grams

Seems like major weight savings with SRAM.
FSA cranks seem to save about 80 grams overall.

Lorenzo Rivnut

BB30 can yield a lighter crankset just like oversized tubes get you a lighter aluminum bike. BB30 lets the manufacturer change from a steel BB spindle to an aluminum one. So there are weight savings to be had because of this change in material and design.

Homer

I enjoy what you guys are up too. This sort of clever work and reporting!
Keep up the superb works guys I’ve added you guys to my own blogroll.

my web site – site – Agustin

Benjamin Butyl

Is this Purdy guy going for a Wright Bros look or is that mustache leftover from his Halloween costumer as “creepy neighbor”?

Money Bag Hole

I don’t have significant amounts of $$$ to switch over to BB30, all my bikes are standard BB and therefore all my cranks either SRAM GXP or Shimano compatible.

However I just got a great deal on a Jamis Xenith SL, which is a BB30 frame. I often interchange my SRAM and Shimano cranks depending on type of race. Why is this you ask… different length cranks, SRAM is 175 and Shimano 172.5 but that a different discussion.

My question… is there an adapter that can convert the BB30 shell so that I can use both SRAM and Shimano. Without having to change anything but the cranks. My understanding is that the adapters either work for SRAM or Shimano not both.

Money Bag Hole

that will be greatly appreciated.

If you can get some clarification as to if the FSA BB30 Bottom Bracket Adapter will it work for both SRAM GXP and Shimano compatible cranks.

Although the FSA BB30 Bottom Bracket Adapter will permanently change the BB30 shell to standard, there is no going back once installed I was told, but I don’t mind that.

Geo. Grapher

Hello Mr. Hole,

OK, first… There are two ways to accomplish converting a BB30 frame for use with Std (24mm) cranks.

Option A: is to install a sleeve which downsizes the BB shell to the traditional, threaded style. Like the FSA you mention or others manufacturers make similar items. This is considered a “permanent” conversion. however… It’s not Permenent, permanent. You won’t install, remove, re-install, re-remove, re-re-install… you get the point. Once it’s in, it’s in. You CAN remove it in the future. But you don’t want to do this operation more than one time. Doing so runs the risk of damaging the original BB30 shell and you may never be able to use it as a BB30 the way the manufacturer intended. Basically, if you install the insert now, you can (carefully) remove it later. But you only get to do that one time.

Option B: install BB30 bearings into the frame and use these:
http://wheelsmfg.com/content/view/891/67/

They are shims that downsize the 30mm hole in the bearings to the 24mm axle. Unfortunately, Sram and Shimano have slightly different philosophies about the details so you must use a unique shim set for each style of crank. This shouldn’t be a problem for you since you have had to change the bb each time you change the crankset anyway.

All things considered, I think that Option B is an easier and less expensive switchover. At my shop I sell those shims for $32 per set. Of course, you will need the BB30 bearing assembly also, but that might come with the frameset. If not, they can be had for around $60 for steel bearings or $160+ for Ceramic.

Hope this helps,
Sensei

Geo. Grapher

I may have glossed over one compatibility issue. Sram Cranks and BB’s and Shmano Cranks and BB’s are NOT compatible with each other in any way. If you use a Sram Crank, you must use a Sram BB. A Shimano BB will not now or ever work with it. And vice versa.

Unless….. Shimano get’s with the program and starts making BB30 cranksets. Then the cranks will be interchageable with any BB30 frame.

but as of now and the issue of the 24mm standard, no cross compatibility between those two companies.

Sensei

Money Bag Hole

I don’t mind installing FSA sleeve into frame, I don’t see my self switching to BB30 anytime soon, so permanency isn’t an issue.

But once I install the FSA sleeve, would I be able to use either SRAM or Shimano BB and cranks? The reason for my confusion is that someone was telling me that the FSA adapter only works for Shimano and if I needed to use SRAM I would need the following instead of the FSA adapter.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=6256&CATEGORY.ID=19&MODE=&TFC=TRUE&TOP_PARENT.ID=&BRAND.ID=

Basically they told me the GXP BB wont work with FSA adapter. But Shimano does. I am not to great with technical bicycle stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

Geo. Grapher

… On whoever (or is it whomever) told you that the FSA doesn’t work with Sram. The two adapters are the same thing. The only difference is the color. There is no functional difference between the two.

However, it is possible that there is simple confusion about what “Adapter” he/she was referring to. The permanent press in sleeve is the same all the way around. But the Wheels Mfg. adapter shims that I mentioned earlier are different between Sram and Shimano. Shimano and FSA use the same Shim adapter. Maybe that’s what they were talking about.

Sensei

Money Bag Hole

very nice, well that settles it. FSA adapter it is! As a Jamaican team mate would say… big up star!!! Thanks

tiancheng6a

公司宣传的重要途径

 

一部策划优良的宣传片(又称公司形象宣传片)可在几分钟内向目标观众传递几万文字和几百张图片所能表现的企业信息量,原因很简单:因为人们从外界吸收的信息有百分之九十以上是通过视觉的,尤其是影像的信息密度最大。更重要的是能为企业和客户都节约许多宝贵时间。

有创意、艺术化的企业形象片能在观众心中留下深刻的印象,更好地传播商业信息。企业形象片作为传播商业信息的一种手段,传播中的美感十分重要,因为美的东西能吸引观众的目光,艺术化的产品才符合现代人对美的追求、吸引人的注意力,这是实现传播效果的第一步。现代广告艺术是将艺术性建立在商业性实用目的之上,这对企业形象片也同样适用。要达到企业的最终商业目的——树立企业形象、促进产品销售,必须用艺术性包装企业形象片,企业宣传片制作,使其具有足够的吸引力,让观众在艺术享受的愉悦中引起对信息的关注,建立对企业品牌的认知,最终达到最佳的传播效果。

企业形象宣传片作为公司宣传及营销的重要工具,只要企业领导对它的认知和重视程度高,经费的投入足、制作的把关严、渠道的传播广;只要在制作和运用企业形象宣传片过程中环环相扣、步步为营、全盘把控,就能让它的营销锋芒毕现,为企业品牌的打造和产品的销售建功立业。

tiancheng6a

企业宣传片的意义

&nbsp,企业宣传片制作;

在市场经济时代,早已经过了“酒香不怕巷子深”的年代了!企业营销,市场营销,广告宣传已经遍布我们生活的每一个角落,企业宣传片也是一个营销手段。

企业的长期利润来自于品牌附加值的提升,如何提升企业的形象、增加品牌的附加值,宣传的形式至关重要。  ä¼ä¸šå®£ä¼ ä¸ä»…仅是拍摄制作一套光盘那么简单。企业制作宣传片的最终目的是传播企业形象,销售产品。它要求的不仅仅是画面的精美、内容的生动,更要求能够统一企业形象和产品特点。这种多媒体宣传片特点是投入小,受众针对性强、播放地点灵活等。 

企业做宣传片首先要明确目的。为什么要做宣传片?企业制作宣传片是为了提升企业形象还是介绍产品?如果是为了提升企业形象那当然是做企业形象片。很多企业,特别是中小企业自身的形象并不是很突出,在企业内部对自身没有一个统一的认识,在渠道和消费者中也没有形成影响和共识,这对企业的发展是十分不利的。那么企业就需要将自身的资源进行整合,提炼出一个统一的企业形象。如果企业要做的是产品直销片,和企业形象一样,产品的特点和功能定位也很重要。产品有产品的形象,产品的功能定位应该能够体现出由产品所展示的品质、品味和品形到品牌的过渡。于是,宣传片的意义就在于可以帮助企业实现企业——代理商、经销商——零售商——消费者对企业形象和产品达到共识。

Comments are closed.