The Hangover 9/18/06

Section head text.

Silvermine

Westwood puts on the event and sweeps the podium. Motor takes fourth, fresh from a dooring. Westwood puts on a great TT, congrats to everyone who zzzzzzz…………

Scot stays on a tear, winning the 3’s, with Ted Neu 2nd.

Steve Goldman (of spring Harriman 4 breakaway fame) puts on the event and wins 35+.

Accardi and Coke enters cat 4 TT Hall of Fame.

Accardi whips a pair of dorks (well, at least the one on the left). Scot feigns enthusiasm.

Maria Quiroga wins women’s 4’s with Bonnie Fletcher 3rd.

Calvert Toefield

Rad Smolaga wins, sandbagger accusations fly. At least he wasn’t a wheelsucker.

Wait – are you saying there are sandbagger and wheelsuckers in the 4 category?!

Once again, keep it clean! Act up and the login comes back.

Bill Moss wins the t-shirt of shame.

119 Comments

Bob Beal Masters Weekend - NYC results

Kristi Roberts (Comedy Central) – Women 45+ 2nd RR, 3rd TT, 2nd CR, 3rd GC

Eugene Boronow (Mengoni) – Men 35-39 2nd TT, 1st CR, 3rd GC

Tony Settel (Deno’s) – Men 45-49 2nd TT

Roman Paczka – Men 50-54 4th CR, 5th GC

Lise

I ended up marshalling at Silvermine and the Westwood guys put on a great event. They totally hooked me up with Endurox, gels and bottles for volunteering and the bagels, boxes of coffee, etc. were much appreciated. Great, challenging course — will definitely do it next year.

ETridehome

Did she give you a reason? That’s just absurd…we all know you are at this point only sandbagging in the 4 field…:)

Jbrown

Olsen, Maybe she heard about your 13lb bike and thought that you should’ve had a better showing in the bear 3/4. All joking aside, did you do something to piss her off?

Judy Miller hates me

She said I didnt have enough points which is completely untrue. Even if I dont count the Rockliegh Crit, I still have 24 points.

4 Ever a 4

I dont think I did anything to piss her off. I am like Switzerland, I try to piss off as few people as possible. I now even like and train with Reed the guy who knocked me into the drain the first race of the season.

I’ll admit I like the checks you get for getting podium finishes, (two kids in private school gets expensive), but I would like to try it at the Cat 3 level for real.

Chris M

Its my understanding that Judy had a beloved cat run down in the street by a guy named Greg Olsen. Little known fact, but such bitter memories die hard. Wow, you seriously need to have a conversation about this points thing. Pretty soon you will be beating the 2’s in CP as a Cat 4…

Congrats to Bonnie Fletcher for a great podium finish for a first year racer! Awesome.

to Greg

How many of those points have come from outside of NYC? I know you should have at least 12 points from this year’s Bear races alone; that should stand up on their own since that race gets a good mix of riders.

E-mail me off-list and let me know.

Alan Atwood

kwk

judy must be a wacko for keeping all of these guys in the 4 s unless they want to be a career 4 which will shorten your life more that smoking two paks a day

Orcutt

Are you pulling this from USA Cycling website? I would guesstimate that about 20% of promoters actually report anything to those guys.

Tony S

Anonymous, the list of Greg’s races you got from USACycling doesn’t paint the whole picture – only the race results that promoters submit to usacycling are posted under riders profiles. For example, I’m pretty sure Greg got top 3 at Battenkill-Roubaix this year and that is NOT listed. You thought you were so smart.

Tony S

On a side note, why do so many promoters fail to sumbit race results to usacycling? You would think that a $30 racing fee would include having the promoter send a simple spreadsheet that they ALREADY HAVE to usacycling.

side note

"why do so many promoters fail to sumbit race results to usacycling?"

Because it involves typing or formatting a lot of info and they’re burned out by the time the race is over

Stephen Sirico

To the complainers about results to USA cycling

If anyone thinks it is easy being a promoter, I am going to assume they have been one and are speaking from experience.

Why don’t you volunteer to send the result to USA cycling. You sound like a sprinter. Expecting everyone else to do the work and you get the glory.

To Stephen Sirico

So I will assume that you are a race promoter. Your response is pathetic and hardly defensible. I know that races are run by volunteers; I have volunteered myself at races. Running a race well is not hard; you just have to be competent and careful. Racers race, promoters promote and run events. All that any racer can ask of a promoter is that a race is run safely, well, and that results are reported in a timely manner. All of this is simple.

Cheers,

Racer Guy

schmalz

Are you guys f-in kidding me? You’re actually hopping on promoters? Listen very closely knuckleheads: treasure every promoter we get, because it’s a nightmare to even think of putting on a bike race with insurance, money and every other sort of complication.

We could easily lose 25 or 50 racers (I’m making a list right now) before it would make a difference, but if we were to lose one or two promoters, it would make a HUGE difference.

Oy, quit bitching about everyone not taking out front page ads for your mighty 10th place in the annual category 4 Dry Hump circuit race!

results to USAC take actual work

USAC requires the results to be far more carefully and uniformly formatted than is typical for results postings such as at bikereg, club websites, etc. You can’t just send in those same results

Sure, it would be nice if promoters did it. But I can undertand why they dont’

olsen? and the ole mighty fitchburg

65th and DNF? and you want to upgrade? oh wait…. let me guess… you got boxed in. some squirrel got in ur way…. you flatted with one lap to go…. broke ur chain…. all these guys sat on me and then passed me at the end…. there should be a chinese menu of excuses

"results to USAC take actual work"

And why should we expect a promoter to work? Amazing. Let’s see how much lower we can get the bar…oh wait, that might take some effort.

Aaron

You guys should race Olsen some time. I’m pretty sure he’ll kick your asses just like he does mine and everyone else’s nearly all the time. If he doesn’t deserve the upgrade, I’m not sure who does.

I want a safe race

with good competition, starts roughly on time, and some portajohns or bathrooms.

Results to USAC would be nice but are just icing.

If "lower the bar" wants them, or requires them, I suggest he simply not go to races that don’t do it. Look and see if the race results were sent in the previous year, and if they weren’t, don’t sign up. Simple.

Matt S

To: olsen? and the ole mighty fitchburg

After reading your comment I basically lost faith in humanity. After that "experience" I’ve come very fast to the conclusion that you are some frustrated racer who has no confidence in your own ability and so you resort to putting others down unjustifiably to artificialy inflate your self damaged ego. I don’t want to waste much time addressing something written by somebody so pathetic, so I will keep it short. I was going to write more, but you’re not worth it. Fess up to who you are so you can be publicly hated as you deserve to be.

Thank Alan...

for posting that explanation. Like most things, I’m sure just "getting results to USCF" is easier said than done.

There’s nothing wrong with people voicing strong preference that it be done by promoters. But Mister "lower the bar" has the all to common attitude in cycling that he wants it, so someone must do it.

To Tony S. lower the bar et. al.

Help improve things by volunteering to be

CRCA Director of Open Racing next year.

I hear that the position is open.

Mr Olsen should have done more 3/4 races

Doing more 3/4 races instead of cat 4/5 looks better when Judy is making a decision to upgrade you from a 4 to a 3 .The cat 4/5 are good but really doesn’t weight much when looking to upgrade . Have to pick and choose your races wishly if your looking to get to that next level .

Anonymous

Hammer Olsen for sandbagging and then hammer that he has only 16 pts. If finishing 2nd, not 3rd, in a top Cat 3 race doesn’t get you upgraded something is wrong with the system.

With so many 4’s, keeping qualified people from upgrading hurts the sport.

And on top of that , with Jiminy,2 Bears and Unionvale he has 24 points and this doesn’t count Rockleigh and other local races.

If you don’t count Jiminy because it was a 4/5, it’s only logical to give extra weight to Cat 3 Fall Bear.

Anonymous

There are too many 4’s. They need to revamp upgrade guidelines because in many cases Cat 3 races don’t even fill up while Cat 4’s often times have long waiting lists. Categorization should be about proper distribution of racers. I don’t understand why USCF ignores its own rules on upgrading – in the end it always ends up being the regional rep that makes a decision irrespective of the number of points a racer accrues.

Cat 4 Upgrade

I will be submitting my results resume on Oct 1 and am not sure if they will upgrade me… given the results Olsen has, they may out me into the cat 5 again!!

Anonymous

There are lot of 3/4 races out there that Mr Olsen could have done during the season look at his list of results thats nice but he has cat 4’s and 5 rookies that hes competing with whereas you get a guy doing a cat 3/4 race weighs more in upgrading sorry to say .

Anonymous

hey its nothing personnal against Mr Olsen just tell it like it is know where in the anonymous post it states that he cannot ride but its the races that he compete in that is the PROBLEM with Judy upgrading him I would like to see him upgraded and put a hurting onthe big boys but its not my decision . See at the races Anonymous Out Peace

Olsen

First off, I think I was a 5 when I won Jiminy 4/5. So 4 was not an option. Secondly, I would LOVE to race every weekend, but I have these people called wife and kids that wont let me blow off an entire Sat or Sun to race every weekend. (My wife was thrilled when my wheel broke at Fitchburg) Hardly see them during the week as it is.

I have only been a 4 since May and since then the only races that I have been able to do that have been offered as 3/4 were Bear and Capital Region. No 3/4 at Unionvale or Fitchburg and Hilltowns was cancelled.

Oh well. Guess I will have to race F’ing Jamestown.

Thanks Judy!

Anonymous

The PROBLEM cannot be the races he competes. Finishing second in the toughest Cat 3 race within hundreds of miles , takes care of that.

And it was a Cat 3 race, not 3/4. Only 3 Cat 4’s raced in it and it was never open to the public as a 3/4.

The system isn’t good and if Judy is as subjective as anon indicates, it’s even worse.

Anonymous

OH MY GOD. You have a wife and a kid.. you should have just told Judy that, Im sure she would understand that you have 1 result as a 4 and that clearly you should be a 3 but this damn family thing is just getting in the way.

Ya know I don’t know all of your results but it seems to me that placing in one race really does not qualify you as upgradeable.

And blaming your family is lame excuse. If they are the reason your not a 3 then good for you. Its more important to spend time with them then your bike.

Hell Im sure I would place a lot more if could ride more but as 35 year cat 3 dad and husband. I will gladly finish last every race if it means that I can spend time with my family.

Sounds to me like you need a grow up pill.

lee3

Greg, just do 3/4 races from here on out. You’ll get the bump up before the end of the season if not the beginning of the next. Seriously, dont sweat it. It’s obvious you can mix it up with a 3-pack –

"Dont rush to be grown drive slow….."

-KW

lee3

Doing 3/4’s in my opinion would serve you well to garner a rep for slaying 3’s as a 4 for the last few successive months on the upgrade calender.

jonathan podwil

to anonymous…

I have never met mr. Olsen, but if winning the 4’s at Bear and getting 2nd in the 3’s doesn’t qualify for an upgrade I don’t know what does. How did you do at Bear?

Ole mighty fitchburg = Stephen Badger

still want to race 3 laps and see olsen lap me? bring it on. Olsen has skills we know that. GMSR and Fitchburg are true tests of Regional Races. The Cat 4 race at Bear was a CRCA race that filled in 20 minutes… not a true Regional Race.

Schandbaggerrrrrrr!

arrr, ye all are schandbaggerrrrrrrsss! ye shall be thrown into the briny deep of Prospect Park Lake to sink to Davy Jones’s locker!

shaw

i’m starting an idiot team next year. my first choices for teammates are greg o and justin b. wait, wolfe and rashad too. why aren’t we bashing them today. they’re sucky idiots. schmalz isn’t idiot enough.

Dear Ole Fitchburg

Badger, you are right Fitchburg and GMSR are true tests and the Cat 4 Spring and Fall Bear races are turning into CRCA only races.

But at Fitchburg , Olsen was in 10th place after Stage 2 , before going out with a mechanical in Stage 3. The 64th place was a pack finish in a crit.

Finishing 2nd in what we thought was a tough Cat 3 race should prove that Olsen deserves to be a Cat 3.

But Maybe Judy is telling us that the Cat 3 Bear race is not even on a par with a Cat 4 race in New England or Pa.

Jbrown

Shaw correct me if I’m wrong here….did you do 6 laps in 5 lap time trial at FBF?? yeah, that’s what I thought…your the leader of this new Idiot team for sure. I guess olsen can be deputy officer as well for telling people he has a 13lb bike…..of course you can climb faster than me!

arrrrrrr prrrrrashpect parrrrrrrk

harrrdy harrr!!! me biceecle weighs 13 lbs on a dead man’s chest harrrr!!!!

schmalz to walk the plank i shay!

Anonymous

It’s not about Olsen but the upgrade process.

If the process is a joke it has an affect on the racing.

There’ve been a lot of complaints about Judy Miller in the past and this case where someone finishes 2nd in a major Cat 3 race and doesn’t rate an upgrade is a clear example of how ridiculous the process is.

shaw

at least i know the difference between your and you’re j-bone. that’s why you’ll be the DS. i want to be ADD-S.

COBRA! PYTHON!

Chris M

I just wonder how we got to the point where we need to question whether anyone who podiums in a Cat 3 isnt ready to upgrade to the field. Its not like Bear is some CP spring series race. Oh, and now Cat 4s can only upgrade if they race 3/4 and place in those too? What kind of insanity is this? Just more evidence that in the eyes of USCF, Cat 4s seem to need to be fast enough to win Cat 3 races just to show up to the line. Idiocy. Its true though – look at the results of the 4s who upgrade. They are very often in the top quartile of the 3s when they go, which is comical.

Also, Cat 4 races around the region fill up in nanoseconds and there are tons of fast racers, while Cat 3 races barely fill up at all. Why would USCF officials try to keep fast riders out of Cat 3? I say Olsens results speak for themselves and echo the view that he’s more than proven he can hang with 3s, so whats with the weighting of races, and lower status of NYC anyway – our CRCA races are CLEARLY harder than some of those NJ crits that count for points anyway. Just a shame USCF doenst scrutinize results more and see who regularly wins in the park and how well they do at even the biggest races like GMSR that few married w/kids or busy professionals can attend every year anyway…

lee3

I think uscf go by the hard facts of results (the reported ones) and they look at that in the spectrum of 12 months of racing. Perhaps I think they frown on ugrading riders from a 5 to a 3 in one season no matter how legitimate the results are. They are more apt to process an upgrade of Greg’s situation at the end of a season. I tend to agree. We are so use to the cushy fast tracking within our own club where a rider is pushed to the (A) field based on 1 or 2 solid wins that we forget that the uscf are a much more involved with upgrading. Dont be so quick to shoot down the process. I do think he should be riding in the three field, however, as someone posted earlier – do the races that diligently send in the results, get the points and wash yer hands of the 4’s forever or atleast until the first 3/4 race, where he it’s likely another 4 will come up crush everybody!

Serious Question Guy

Chris M.-

"I just wonder how we got to the point where we need to question whether anyone who podiums in a Cat 3 isnt ready to upgrade to the field." Perhaps the question should be why does everyone start calling someone a sandbagger and cursing Judy Miller’s name whenever someone finishes on the podium? It’s as if no one is allowed to win more than one race without getting his name dragged through the mud by everyone who didn’t win. You’re supposed to win, or at least do well for awhile, before you upgrade. Part of becoming a better racer is learning to race well consistently, and a couple of decent results should not warrant an upgrade.

As to Cat. 4 races filling up, of course there will be more Cat. 4s than 3s (and 3s than 2s, 2s than 1s), and 4 races will probably fill up quicker as a result, but that’s the way the system is supposed to work. It’s a pyramid by design. And btw it’s hardly as if Cat. 3 races are barely getting filled. There are tons of Cat. 3s and full fields at nearly all the big races.

Someone posted yesterday that the whole sandbagger, upgrade shenanigans have gotten out of hand and I couldn’t agree more.

SQG

K King-VB

The guys that race against Olsen know he is strong and can hold his own in the 3’s.

Greg I suggest you do the first couple of 4 races at Branchbrook and Bethel next spring to get your points. For some reason J. Miller thinks these races are ultra competitive and assigns them more weight compared to say a spring series or PP race. I think it has to do with Bethel qualifying as a crit.

some guys upgraded using points from these races earlier this year

Anonymous

The system is not perfect, she should get input from some of the promoters maybe.

When a guy like Wilkins is stuck in 4’s just because he can’t get out of town much thats just not right.

Sony T

Greg – Have you tried shaving your balls? I suggest NAIR, so PRO and saves time if you have a wife and kids. I hear that the NYVC guys tweeze each other’s – true team spirit!!!

Mr Olsen

I think you sould stop complaining about upgrading and ride more races ,you have more time responding back to these post and you could have done 4or 5 more races.Stop clicking those fingers on the computer and go and click those GEARS to UPGRADE……..

Anonymous

Olsen sucks. He doesn’t deserve to be a CRCA A even. He should race with the B’s the rest of the CRCA season after this weekend.

Kim Riseth also sucks since he is also a 4. He too will race B’s after this weekend.

judee M.

Floyd counts for squat. its not a crit and its not long enough to count for RR points. JJ gets a 3 but since he whips up on you guys all the time and is old enough to be your daddy no one else gets points.

Anonymous

It’s clear from all the answers, "Judy gives a lot of weight to Bethel and Branchbrook", " Judy gives weight to this or to that or not to this etc that no one knows exactly what counts.

Either she goes strictly by points in which case every Prospect, Floyd and even Bear Mtn race counts as long as they meet distance and field criteria. Or she explains her method to us.

To serious guy there is a difference between establishing consistent results in Cat 4 races to merit an upgrade versus winning in the class you’re trying to upgrade to.

We went through this when Ken was trying to upgrade so maybe it’s tired and boring but it seems that NYC races and racers are held in low regard and that they want to use us to fill out of town races while New englanders and Pa guys can stay home and Bear Mtn counts less than looping thru an industrial park in Ct.

Faber

Great for Accardi. I just got to the FBF TT about 40 minutes before my scheduled start and saw Accardi fly by at the start/Finish where the winds were totally howling. Guys got talent

JESUS!

olsen doesnt have the points yet! when he gets 20pts he will get his f*ing upgrade… end of story!

CP/PP races are fillers between regional events. Just maybe if CRCA races were OPEN to other teams they might count towards upgrade points. But keeping the competition out of your race will not get you an upgrade.

Anonymous

I dont think Judy is the problem with the upgrade process. For the most part she does a good job, sometimes she gets things wrong. Ken H should have been made an automatic 2. But for the most part guys like him are an extreem exception.

It sounds like Olsen is a newer racer so why rush. It seems to me you dont actualy have the points. Its not like your so fast that every one knows who you are. Take the spring to actually get the points needed in qualifying races.

Do the math

1st @ Bear 4 = 7 pts

2nd @ Bear 3/4 = 5 pts

2nd Unionvale 4 = 5 pts

1st @ Jiminy 4/5 = 7 pts

But the last Jiminy was to get the 4 to 5 upgrade so doesn’t count 4 to 3. Not enough points = no upgrade, even if you’re good enough.

Do The Math - more spreading of false info

Points count for a 12 month period. Pts count if the races meet the requirements for an upgrade. Roadraces must be 25 miles and have 30 riders to go from 4-3.

That is all the rulebook says.

Anonymous

That would imply someone could do 10 Cat 5 races and if they were all 4/5 and met the 25 mile/field of 30 requirement and was top 10 in all of them then you could upgrade directly from 5 to 3. Maybe this is where some of the discretion comes in.

Is Greg good enough to race with the 3’s – of course. Does he deserve an upgrade – sure. But given an ambiguous points situation and limited race experience, is it an automatic upgrade? No. I’ll caveat that by saying that if he was a 4 when racing Jiminy then there’s no ambiguity.

Jesus - What is a regional race?

There is no such concept within USCF of a regional race.

Jiminy Peak, Branchbrook, Prospect Park, Bear Mtn., Floyd

are all Class D sanctioned USCF races.

All of these events, by USCF rules, should be treated equally as long as they meet distance and ridership requirements. USACycling rules do not even make a distinction between pts earned in Class A,B,C or D races. There is not even a USCF provision that races held in Brooklyn,NY count less than races held in Bethel,Ct., or Newark,NJ.

And to their credit, nyvelocity.com race coverage correctly reflects the equal status of FBF, Rockleigh and Jiminy Peak.

DHR

So to summarize:

1. You should have the points to upgrade

2. Not all points are counted equally

3. Not all promoters submit results to USCF

4. NYC is a podunk nowheresville where races don’t count because they are too short or happen to early in the morning.

5. Olsen should upgrade since he has enough points and has kicked the butts of the 3s at Bear

6. Olsen shouldn’t upgrade since he doesn’t have enough points since NYC races don’t count (See point 4)

Ok I’m clear on this. How about you all?

Eugene

"NYC races don’t count"

This is an old, old discussion.

NYC races count. But Judy Miller will not accept repeated points that were scored at the same venue against the same riders.

It’s like saying that you can’t get a complete education by reading from only one book.

JESUS!

olsen doesnt have the points yet! when he gets 20pts he will get his f*ing upgrade… end of story!

CP/PP races are fillers between regional events. Just maybe if CRCA races were OPEN to other teams they might count towards upgrade points. But keeping the competition out of your race will not get you an upgrade.

lee3

CPK is a great circuit and can be equally as tough as some of the stages in these regional events. That said, its also the poorest crappy road tarmac of all of the races Ive gone to. Floyd Bennett might be worse but not by much. CPK, with its battle scarred west side, treacherous horse carraige groves and ridiculous racing hours, beats ya up. Open races are tough because granny gets up @ the butt crack of dawn to walk her rat dog and beat her cholesterol. So having a pack of bulls ripping by @ 30+ isnt popular. It sucks but I have to say the guys that train here are stompin out of town – no question. Bear, Housatonic, Union-vale, GrnMtn and Christiana are all fine examples. Not only that but the Cat IV – Cat III line gets increasingly more blurry with each passing season. I equate this to the "riders getting coaches" craze thats taken over. If ya aint coached in some form or other, you get dropped in some form or other. Oops did I start another argument? Hey…..its true.

lee3

Eugene makes a good point. Our own incestial drive for success makes us competitive out of town but we need to open the gates to get any USCF love. Its a shame that the TT is gone, yet Triathlons still go on.

lee3

Perhaps the wrong term, however the point was that we race the same guys every other wkend without a Chris Cookies, or Westwood Velo or CCB Toshiba in the mix. These squads stomp pretty good too but we’ll never race with them unless we go outside of our comfort zone. So incestial in a sence that frequent competitive exposure for most of us is CRCA only or local talent and not regional talent.

Anonymous

No one submits club races for upgrade points.

Also the USCF guidelines for upgrade are much more important for 3 to 2 than 4 to 3 in my opinion.

olsen

Holy Sh+t! I didn’t think this could possibly stir up this much debate. Love it! (Schmalz, you owe me $20 for the extra traffic)

The long and the short of it is that this is my first year racing full time and am not as familiar with the rules as I should have been. I thought the first place at Jiminy would count but it doesn’t because it was a 4/5 race and there was a 4 race offered. So I am wrong and Judy Miller is right. I wish she would have put that in her email back to me instead of just saying "denied".

I wanted clarification from more experienced racers that frequent this site and I got it. If you look at my posts, I didn’t whine or complain — just wanted answers. I have my answer now and it is done.

As for the fine anon gentleman questioning Fitchburg; the 65th in the circuit race is only after I won 2 of the 3 points sprints so I new I had won the points leader jersey already. (I assume you weren’t there becasue of no Cat 5 race offering) Once I was out of position on the final sprint I decided not to kill myself and save energy for the next day. The DNF, welll…. let’s just say I don’t recommend the M2Racer quick releases as they only have a better than average probability of holding your wheel on.

Mechanicals happen. They let you keep the jersey though.

It is nice to see who supported and ofcourse see the haters predictably hide behind the anon posts. Its all good. Being angry never made anyone better.

So I am going to train (not shave) my balls off this winter and if I am lucky enough have another season good season. The one fact do know is that I need 4 more points before Mothers Day. Ride safe.

Hater

Happy fucking mother’s day olsen.

oh, also, no need to get your own site since you hijacked this one.

and finally, give me my light back. you don’t deserve it losr.

M2Racer QR

I need more details! At the Sept Bear I too had a great experience with M2racer QR-jammed my rear wheel in the frame right after the hairpin-on the 1st lap. Jumped off the bike tightened up the QR and while attempting to close it, it snapped and went straight into my palm-day over. Race was over as soon as the wheel jammed. I did one lap after my hand was bandaged by the emts.

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