Hopeful Friday 4/24/2009

by schmalz

Kickin’ it

This weekend brings almost every type of race that can happen to someone caught on two wheels.

Saturday has the Highbridge Hustle and Flow Team Relay on mountain bikes; the Kissena Velodrome opening weekend on track bikes; the NJBA Team Challenge on road bikes; and the Tour de Ephrata on what I assume will have to be Amish bikes.

Sunday trots out yet another bike type with the Cape May Time Trial, and finally the Spring Series has its last race Sunday on what I will assume be stolen bikes.

 

 

154 Comments

Anonymous

He racing for SOmmerville or Affinity? Also did not know Affinity still had a team?

Rashad done racing?

Anonymous

90th place at Battenkill. Season’s over. I’m racing to the buffet tomorrow. I’ll start training on Monday for next year’s 89th place.

Anonymous

is Rashad still racing or did he move?

you ask this like it’s one of the other. he’s not racing. he did not move.

Anonymous

He admittedly is focused on TTs only this year and the Track at the Cat1-2 level (Cat4 with no results up to Cat2) and he (over)trains by riding 7 days a week at about 4 hours a day plus all this Rocky Balboa shit. I am no coach but I would think his base training is done and he should be focusing on hammering out 2x20s at 95% and hard 1 hour rides. I dont think the top TT guys like Will O, and Pete Cannell are breaking records by riding 6 hour clips at endurance pace.

Guy is a fool … wait, I just wasted 2 minutes of my life writing about him. DOH!

Anonymous

So any word on why one of the best racers in NYC just stopped racing after doing well at the Cat1 level?

Anonymous

Yes I think the original comment was sarcastic – his training is absolutley absurd, amazing that he keeps being told this but thinks he knows better and even better is as a TT specialist doesn’t train with or use a power meter but would rather spend the money on 18 different bikes.

Anonymous

I have never done a TT and am not sure what a good Cat1 TT time is for a flat 40K. Is 52mins a Will O type time or is this Cat4 time?

I know each course is different but is there some type of TT benchmark?

Anonymous

You can roughly think of it as 4 times around the park: 52 minutes for 40k is pretty fast. Can you do 4 laps in under 1 hour?

Anonymous

TTVegan’s training regiment may be retarded and counterproductive, but it does sound like more fun than most folks’. Which is maybe worth something.

Anonymous

Still seem off. Did Atocha make the winning 7 break? Also, Gabele is still not listed in the top 5.

Oh well…. Cat 3s had a fast time.

Anonymous

2000+ situps daily as cycling training regimen? seriously? jeezus. will that help central park lap times? i know it’ll help me put my back out…

Anonymous

Actually, there are always these Cat 3 or Cat 4 that show up and do times like this. I hate them. Will O is a Cat 3. So is S Goldman and he is fast and getting faster. He did a 53 something 2 seasons ago. Tony Settel

Anonymous

Kind of silly to call O’Donnell a three though. The guy is a TT specialist and one of the best in the country. There are reasons the not let guys upgrade off TT results, but O’Donnell is an example of a guy who should be waved through.

Anonymous

1. Absolutely no one – NO ONE – cares about that TT person, real or imagined. Pls stop posting about yourself here.

2. “So any word on why one of the best racers in NYC just stopped racing after doing well at the Cat1 level?”

Why the f-ck don’t you mind your own business, or just say what you want to say? And before you give me the “what’s the problem, I was just asking a simple question” bullsh-t, save it. Spit it out, or shut the f-ck up. Pls do the latter.

not in a good mood today

Anonymous

O’Donnell is an example of a guy who should be waved through.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NOOOOO!!!

What don’t you guys understand about this crap? You can be whatever category you want and enter a TT. You can go to nationals.

You CAN’T do NRC’s, you CAN’T do P/1 invitational races… So what? If you can only TT, you’d end up paying 300 dollars to do a TT, and then get absolutely RAPED in any other stage.

No waive. Get your own god damn upgrade points you TT specialist bastards.

Anonymous

why would he want to be “waved through”? upgrades are not merit badges, they’re for putting riders in the fields where they belong. if he hasn’t figured out how to win a cat 3 road race with national-caliber TT skills, it’s not like he’s going to figure it out against 1s and 2s. let the guy focus on what he’s interested in, and you can take extra satisfaction if you beat him in a road race.

Anonymous

wasn’t Rashad moving to Marin county, California???
He is probably reading this and laughing while drinking pina coladas in Cali

Anonymous

Andrew Lacorte races for Affinity.
He is no longer part of Sommerville Sports.

David Sommerville
Director Sportif
Sommerville Sports

Anonymous

Damn I love their banana pudding…although, Buttercup Bakery on 2nd Ave & ~51st is slightly better, and if you’ve never tried their Hummingbird cake, you’re missing out on life.

Anonymous

If Rashad is in Marin, he’s smoking doobie and listening to Jerry Garcia, not sipping pina coladas. Get your regionally-correct entertainment straight!

Anonymous

he would be on anti depressants: it is the anti depressant capital of the world.

No one smokes doobies anymore there: they like the yay-yo.

I think he did not like the snarky world of CRCA….

Anonymous

however, once you move away from the town with the largest cycling club in the country, you realize what ya miss. Cali has great roads and fine weather but no real cycling club culture like gotham.

Anonymous

I went on BikeReg to take a look at the racing landscape and was pretty surprised to see not more than 6 events (for the year!)The pro purse potential was a joke!!
Its pretty sad for a state with such awesome weather and high caliber training roads.

Anonymous

there’s lots of racing in so cal and nor cal. bike reg isn’t the place to look.

that said, we’re all very fortunate around here due to the likes of crca, avd, cadence series at fbf, etc. etc. lotsa places to race round & round, which sure beats nothing at all!

Anonymous

Great roads to train on in Nor Cal: A true mecca of cycling. I would recomend the Ride up to Fairfax and up to the Dam followed by a descent in Bolinas. Lots of great rides in Nor Cal and the people are decent.

But if you are a racer, NY is a better place to be with many more options to race all within a short distance of the city. Feel lucky racers.

Bike Porn:SF is the only place where you see more old guys on fancy rides than in NYC.

Anonymous

where does one look for racing in Cal? Is there an online network that lists events in a simular fashion to B’Reg?

Anonymous

riding daily in NORCAL on and off road then racing in Prospect Park and getting all hard for a race like Battenkill.

Anonymous

Most of the NORCAL races are on sportsbaseonline. I’d agree that it is much easier to find lots of good racing close to NYC. That said, it you are willing to drive a bit each weekend, there are some amazing courses within 3 hrs of the bay area.

-Will R

Anonymous

18:20 – great question, who knows. i would guess it depends on terrain, category, etc. i would think east coast all categories are just as competitive once in season, but i really have no idea. early season cal. riders might have the edge, but maybe not. it’s plenty cold up in bay area in winter, and central/so. cal can be nasty too. just nowhere near as nasty as here, of course.

maybe someone who has raced can speak to their experience between the two.

Anonymous

those guys are crazy strong. they start racing crits in february and have a whole series of road races through august. then they switch to cyclo-cross until thanksgiving. then they go mountain biking all winter.

check out mike hernandez’s site http://www.norcalcyclingnews.com

Anonymous

I think teams from Cali would have thier hands full at Battenkill. That’s an early race with lots of climbing, and I would argue that the NY/NE/VT rider would have the edge in that case.

Lets get a beef started.

Anonymous

Possible research direction – look up results of a popular east coast & west coast event mid season. Pro results dont count except for womens fields.

CatI-IV.

Race examples:
Bear
nature valley
Fitch
Toona
Ventura Stagerace
Redland

Anonymous

it’s the population density of the NY scene that makes it one of the best in the country. however, it’s funny how closeted we are from other regions in terms of knowing who the other strong teams/riders are.

Anonymous

very hard so. cal races (this is ignoring the big crits, of which there are several):

boulevard
murietta
san dimas
redlands
devil’s punchbowl
san luis rey

Anonymous

to be fair, redlands was a full pro field with racers who were in tour of california and other pro tour level races. amateur NYC racers at redlands had honed their form against the likes of… you.

Anonymous

I raced both NY and CA. 1 year racing in NYC. moved to SF, raced on both coasts as a cat 4. four races in NY/CT (crash in toefield sprint with eventual winner, 2nd, 1st, 1st) whereas my best finish in NorCal was 3rd. Spent the last 2 years racing in NorCal and just got my Cat 2 upgrade.

NorCal is unquestionably a stronger region. I’ve said it before, I think winners in any region will turn into winners wherever you put them. Pack fodder in CA is much stronger and P123 races are rare. there are enough P12s to field there own 100+ entry races.

Not to mention that early season we race against locals like fast freddy and levi. and year round, we race against some contingent of bissell, cal giant, bmc, rock racing etc.

As a sprinter, I quickly learned that you have to become a decent climber just to place in NorCal races or get into the sprint.

btw, my wattage is modest (except for 1 min 10.16 w/kg) but going against stronger riders has forced me to be craftier.

Not sure about the police work of those who suggest there isn’t a big racing scene here or think that you have to drive hours in order to race. we have big fields and and usually have multiple choices per race weekend.

i do miss the sh-t talking in nyc, people in CA are pretty chill so i have to get my fill on this board!! and there is nothing that compares to the convenience of riding to PP or CP for races.

pouncy, bbcracer.wordpress.com

Anonymous

i’ve lived in both states and can say that, unquestionably, new jersey is a tougher animal on the neighborhood big wheel circuit than southern california.

Anonymous

“I think teams from Cali would have thier hands full at Battenkill. That’s an early race with lots of climbing, and I would argue that the NY/NE/VT rider would have the edge in that case.”

hmmm, you’re calling 4,000 ft of climbing in 62 miles lots of climbing?? i think you’ve made the Cali case yourself.

i’m not just a hater, but i also come bearing gifts: http://www.prerace.com/

Anonymous

You all really need to get over being able to race in CP, PP and FBF every week like it’s some kind of panacea.

Anonymous

norcal: very tough. kinda segmented. santa cruz area: ouch it hurts. east bay: really hard. menlo/woodside/saratoga/los altos/palo alto: also really tough. marin: yep, hard. north bay (santa rosa): levi home base, which says enough.

central coast: good enough riding area for team columbia to be based there, so yes, it’s hard.

so cal: segmented. san deigo area: hard (palomar, anyone?). orange county: home base to many big time riders, esp. masters, wicked hard (just about anyone from nyc region in any category try beating thurlow rogers in any form of race–yeah, good luck). l.a. area: very hard, esp if in the santa monica mountains area or on the other side of the valley, those guys spend all day in the mountains, cervelo had team camps out there (agoura).

humboldt: light it up, bro, who cares about riding!

Anonymous

Raced and lived in both places (as an amateur). Socal cyclist are strong, but guess what, NYC cyclists are just as. This whole idea that one coast should be intimidated by the other is just off. The sheer number of cyclists in each local keep things pretty even. Socal has no shortage of mountains to train on but road closures for races are expensive. Therefore, races in the NE tend to be just as tough. A good all around cat 3 in NY or CA, (or CO) may be a little stronger than one in say, Nebraska, but compared to eachother, its all a wash. Keep your head up NYC. CA, your just as strong as anyone.

Anonymous

There are a lot more crits in California than in the northeast so if you suck at crits, it is harder racing there. There are more interesting road races in the northeast, but the training rides are infinitely better there. I found it harder to get results in the 3s in norcal than in NYC, but that is only a sample size of 1. And yeah, you do usually have to drive at least an hour to get to almost every race since there are few events in San Francisco or Oakland/Berkeley. But you can easily do two races pretty much every weekend from February til September.

Anonymous

A lot of CA/West coast riders ride and do well in multiple disciplines, – road, track, CX, and mtb. Seems more specialized in the east. Guys who ride road, ride road only etc.

Aaron

Less space for bike storage here. Fewer car owners. Hard to ride to the cx / mtb races. At least in NYC area.

Anonymous

i have to say – good cat 2’s in the northeast are good cat 3’s in boulder. straight up, tested.

Anonymous

good cat 2’s in the Northeast are good cat 2’s in Boulder (and everywhere else). Straight up, tested.
Get your upgrade and find out. (said as a racing cat 1 or 2 for 20+ years).

Anonymous

hmm.. you’re wrong, actually!

after training in boulder for 7 months, i came back to the northeast, placed top 5 four times in P123 races. then, went back to boulder after ONE week, and have been consistently getting around 20th.

therefore… you’re wrong, you clearly haven’t been to boulder in 20 years.

Anonymous

thankfully the track racing took all day so i completely missed out on this gem of an argument. cali dudes may be faster, but their pizza sponsors sell inferior product. so there.

Anonymous

could only exist in NYC.

Big egos are attracted to this city and big egos flourish in this city. I think the better question would be how many Cali cyclists enjoy cycling as opposed to NYC cyclists. We appear to be hyper stressed and hyper competitive as this environment dictates. I doubt that northern or southern California cities such as LA and SF have that same pace or attitude. It is a silly argument considering that if you take a great cyclist and place him/her in any environment and they will still be that great cyclist. It may take some time for adjustment to the environment yet it is apparent that it is 80% genetics and 10% training.

Anonymous

The fields in Cal are faster, for reasons specific to the region, but there’s nothing special about riders from over here that makes them superior talents to the rest of the U.S.A.

Facts: The weather here is better and people race year round. People don’t take the long offseason that training books talk about unless they are pros. Honestly, should anybody who trains / races limited amateur hours and works a job really have a need for a prolonged offseason?

There are more young riders in Cal with real speed as opposed to over-the-hill 30+ geezers like me. I don’t remember any significant presence of high school teams when I lived in NYC, but there are high school cycling leagues here.

The Cal P1 talent is higher because people who are chasing the dream and willing to forgo “real” careers are more likely to move here for the weather, terrain and higher level of competition.

Hills are always a consideration. 3 minutes from my house, there’s a 1,000 footer that I have to climb just to get to my flat training routes. This is typical for everyone in NorCal with no longer than a 20 minute ride to get to a 1,000 footer. From most places in the bay area, you can incorporate a 2,000+ footer into your training within less than an hour of ride time.

If you ride with faster people, you also get faster. Take an NYC pack fodder racer in any category, move them to Cal and they will struggle at first, but in time they will become faster, though still pack fodder. Take someone who wins in NYC, send them to Cal, they will struggle, adapt, then begin winning again.

I think the reverse is also true. Take someone from Cal, put them in NYC and they will initially be stronger than their NYC counterpart (pack fodder or winner) but they will eventually slow down to the NYC level.

If you take someone from Cal or Boulder and put them in NYC, their fitness advantage won’t allow them to ride the field off of their back wheel. Anyone who knows anything about bike racing understands the dramatic power differential necessary to do this. I do think their fitness will allow them to consistently place higher than their east coast counterpart until they slow down to the local level.

It took my entire summer as a cat 4 when I first moved to NorCal from NYC to become a consistent threat for the top 10. When I upgraded to cat 3, I followed the stupid off-season advice of taking time off. I DNF’d several races and was stomped in the early season by guys who had raced cross and did early bird races in January. Eventually I adapted and got faster, as would you.

pouncy

Anonymous

once again, doubtful. can’t climb? look at my results from fitchburg.

aaand keep talkin, cause you’re jealous. freakin old disgruntled racers, man – this is ridiculous.

i didn’t call anybody out, just making a point, which is clearly right… and you gotta call me out, cause you’re jealous.

SO, big man! let me know ANY race we’ll both be at, and i’ll beat you. i’ll propose – P12 at bear. be there, and then let me hear you complain about it on here the next day.

Anonymous

Youthful exuberance gone awry.

Connor, don’t get caught up in this BS. You had a valid (if not poorly explained) point on that thread, and now you’re taking the bs far too personally. But your point was basically that Cat 3 guys, regardless of strength, have a lot of learning to do, and could apply their strengths more intelligently. That is a known fact, and pretty indisputable.

That said, there are some truisms regarding cocky Cat 1 19 year olds that are true most of the time.

Anonymous

California is a small country. Saying cali riders are better is like saying Spanish riders are better than NYers. Also, Pouncy is one of those guys who went from cat 5 to cat 2 in a year, so hardly the basis for any comparison except one limited to himself. Pouncy is faster than most NYers. Leave it at that.

Anonymous

This is such a silly and irrelevant comparsion anyway…Cat 1234…we are all swimming in a small pond though you guys talk like this is THE world. Who are better or stronger riders…CA or NY? …who the fuck cares.

Anonymous

probably never even rode a bike. our sport is small, most people don’t care about it. just have fun riding your bike. there’s probably a kid out there somewhere in ohio or montana or harlem or compton who could kick all our asses if given the right environment. i’m just glad that i get to race a bike in New York. what do i care about the global picture? i guess someday i’ll race out in california and let you guys know how it goes. of course, racing against new, unfamiliar teams is always going to be a little big tougher.

Anonymous

those with 2 or more vowels in their last name are faster than those with just one. it’s a known fact.

Anonymous

But can you beat Lacort? I have to get me some of those cupcakes though! You can talk but can you do the walk? You know where he is and what events he OWNS here and in California, sorry Country!

Not sure where the guy came from in the Keirin but he smoked the field buy about 17-20 bikes out of turn three, in the saddle. (Wasn’t Burrows in the field too?) DAM! And that is the diffrence between the track and the road my fellow NYC riders) Didn’t Harris have like a 6-10 bike lead on the field? Man that’s to bad he could not hold that.

Cupcake rides for the Affinity Track team. Team Sommerville should be so lucky to have him in their kit. Nice stars a stripes though and he deserves to wear that. But wondering why he is in the Sommerville kit and not in a Affinity kit?

Anonymous

that dude should always win the keirin out at kissena. harris took it from 1 lap to go, hoping that indecision in the field would work in his favor. nobody will hold off the cupcake in a sprint at k-town. he didn’t have the fastest kilo on the day, however.

Anonymous

Trebon has lived everywhere. he is as much an east coaster as a west coaster when it comes to CX. ever noticed that most of the big-money CX races (UCI) are out east? all those dudes race the NE Verge series or MAC most of the year.

captcha is “cramps”–who’s crampier? east or west?

Anonymous

True, he’s is from Tampa but home base is Oregon. Trebon vs Johnson is a good rivalry. They also face off on Mt Bikes.

Anonymous

Yeah that was a big one! I was sitting in the master’s field as they whizzed by looking a little shaky. I guess I chose my field wisely..

Anonymous

I saw a pedestrian get clotheslined and slammed on his back hard. I guess he wandered off into the trees to die, so racing is still safe for now.

Anonymous

Should’ve been a larger gap in start times. The Moto should have neutralized the Masters more effectively. The Masters should have moved to the right like they’re supposed to.

An old fart’s opinion

Anonymous

it was retarded that the fields wouldn’t slow down even slightly when being passed. if so, the masters would not have been next to the 3/4s right before the finish, and the crash might have not happened.

Anonymous

Oh yeah blame the moto. You guys have been doing this too long: neutralize means slow the eff down and pull to the right immediately, not dial it down 3 percent.

Anonymous

the masters did move to the right but not really slow down. as far as i know all 3/4s were in the left lane and all masters in the right, and no masters crashed.

still i can see why charlie only runs 3 fields. the 3/4 and masters field passed each other a few times during the race. 4 is too many on a 3 mile course.

Anonymous

Why don’t we just face it that NYC is a hotbed for cycling and get over with it? Some facets could be better (access to diverse terrian, or a car for that matter) but we are pretty spoiled.

Anonymous

Is the real deal. There is no mistaking the difference between the speeds and depth of fields between racing out west and racing out here on the East Coast. Don’t get me wrong, I’m from here, but after spending 5 years out in Boulder racing and training shoulder-to-shoulder with some of the top pros of the country on any given weekend it’s just no comparison to what we have here in the NY tri-state area. There’s nothing like doing the Bus Stop ride or Stazio Crit in Boulder when some of the local pros show up (no name dropping, just fill in the blanks), riding at 5,000-9,000ft at speed is the s@%#!

Anonymous

Masters did not slow down and actually increased our pace because AXIS was trying to use the mix-up to create a break. Which it did twice (Nice Going Ass heads).

I would blame the crash on the Moto not slowing enough and Axis for cheating.

Anonymous

The crash in the 3/4 had nothing to do with the masters field. It happened with guys sprinting for 20th. The masters got caught at the parking lot, not sooner, so unless someone expected the race to stop before they were caught the blame exists in having too many races on the course. There should be no 3/4 race.

Anonymous

No 3/4 race!? How about no Masters, old man! We’re all tired of the early bird start times, Metamucil premes and 15 percent seniors discounts for you geezers anyway!

Anonymous

“No 3/4 race!? How about no Masters, old man! We’re all tired of the early bird start times, Metamucil premes and 15 percent seniors discounts for you geezers anyway!”

Signed, Old Fart

schmalz

Quick Spring Series results:

Pulla wins the 123 in a break with Horace Burrowes
Juan Pimental wins the masters race
Frank Arroyo wins the 3/4

Gary Steinberg wins the overall title

Anonymous

I was surprised to see that the Masters didnt let us pass them!! by rules, they must slow down and stay to the right of the road.
the race promoter is the one to blame, he has to teach the pace vehicles how to manage a situation like today’s

Wheelsucker

That’s true. It’s not as if the Masters have much experience bike racing – they probably had no idea what it meant when the moto pulled through honking a horn, telling them to move to the right.

Aaron

The masters did everything right. The motos should have slowed the fields down more, the 2 times we (3/4) passed the masters and the 1 time they passed us. It was a bad spot for 2 fields to meet.

Wheelsucker

Who give a damn about any of this? The only real concern for any NY/NJ area cyclist this weekend was whether TTVegan broke 52 minutes in the 40k? I need to know, anyone? Buehler?

Anonymous

Lets see the photos or anyone else pictures please!
Great race today…seem like chase came out no where, good timing?

Wheelsucker

ttvegan full alert; I’m with you 19:52. Has there ever been a more closely watched little jerk-off TT? We need to know!

Wheelsucker

word on the street is he did it in 51:xx….pretty impressive. I won’t talk bad about him for the rest of tonight.

Wheelsucker

Man. You guys realize and old guy won the series, some of the best riders in the city are over 35, and most of the top ranked threes are usually masters riders?

Kind of sounds like you guys are just bitter from getting your ass kicked all the time.

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