Hangover 9/21/2009

Help me Gizmo

There were three races mentioned in the Hopeful Friday section from, um, Friday; and the gremlins that live in my computer and tell me the results of bike races have only come forth with results for one of the aforementioned races – those gremlins can be temperamental. So I will mention the results I know about, and hope that the gremlins can fill in the details for me.

At the Catch Kissena Road Race, Kissena was, in fact, not caught; allowing the Kissena riders to race for the win, which was brought home by JP Partland who rides for Kissena. The results are here.

And if you participated in the Tour of the Catskills or the Nittany Lion Cross Race, and were able to "kill it" or engage in an "epic" race, please fell free to come forth and let us know about it. 

142 Comments

Pee Pee

I was there, I pee’d and we rode…
Right after the Cat 4 group was detour off course due to some sort of accident blocking race route, I was riding near the front and ear shot of the yellow jersey when an FGX rider rode up and asked for a pee break. Quickly, everyone started yelling “pee break”. Soon, about 30 guys were lined up on the side of the road peeing.
Back riding, the FGX rider was chanting “call me the king of the Cat 4 pee breaks.”

Lenny Chainline

In the Cat3s it was the same. Don’t know what was special about Sunday but people were peeing left and right.

Some guy in a CRCA jersey politely announced he was going on a pee break attack and rode up the road. When we passed him someone in the back of the field started shouting about dropping him. He quickly got back on.

We should have dropped him. The climb was very uncomfortable when he attacked. Lesson learned. Drop climbers when they pee.

peter venkman

this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions. cat 4 pee breaks, jp winning a race, dogs and cats living together.

Leon Wave Ring

Besides the mentioned races, there was an absolute EPIC field doing the Tour of Fair Haven NJ. Many many big boys from both the NJ Circuit and the NY Circuit were there battling it out in the P-1-2 Race. (All other categories were pretty full as well)

I’m not sure of the exact P-1-2 results…if anyone has them please post. The sketchy bit of results I do know are:
An Empire guy won it.
Mike Rosenhaus of NE Hardware got 4th.
Champion Sys. guy got 5th (same guy who won Basking Ridge) John Erdelyi got 6th.
Stephan Dioslaki of Metra got 8th.
Greg Batista of Metra got 9th.

Someone more knowlegdable, please fill in the blanks / confirm the above.

Maxence Torque

Lisban won. The rest looks correct. Eric Schildge got 7th. Break got away at about halfway and got up to 40 seconds gap. The chases didn’t take hold because of the 5 teams represented in the break, but various efforts pulled them back to 25 seconds with one and a half laps left. They held it to the finish with about 15 seconds and #s 6-7 came in another 10 seconds before the field. It was actually a 123 race, but it was very fast, with long straights having the whole road, but sharp 4-corner turns on a bar bell-shaped course. Anyone have an average speed?

Leon Wave Ring

Yeah – it was fast and tough the whole way through. I’m thinking around 80 guys…Average Speed was an even 27 MPH over the 34.5 Mile race.

Also, #s 6,7,8,9 all came across together – I thought it was approx 30 seconds ahead of the field.

By the way, what’s the Champion System’s guy’s name who was 6th – same guy that won Basking Ridge. (I think he’s Brazilian).

ALSO, Wilson Vasquez won the 35+ race.

Bent Overmi

FGX Rider at TOC who instigated the mass pee break was none other than Mr. Robert Haber.

Yes, that Robert Haber – the guy who soloed up the road on the 5 mile 16% grade mountain climb, and then held off everyone for 7 miles into town to take the stage solo by 40 seconds and snatch the overall GC.

You look good in yellow my man. Way to say goodbye to the 4s.

fan

cool race… it was a good field, and and an interesting course, with crit-like corners through neighborhoods and a small grinding climb to keep it interesting. good bunch of spectators and friendly organizers made the whole thing fun. hope they will do it again next year.

Romain Topcap

right, except that it wasn’t a 5 mile 16% climb. the 5 miles might be correct, but it averaged around 6%, I don’t even know where the 16% would come from.

so did the original race course get changed? something seemed fishy out there.

Lenny Butyl

Haber also instigated a Cat 4 pee break during the App Gap stage of GMSR this year. That one happened 5 minutes into the race about 1 mile after the neutral start.

I pee...we all pee

A pee break? Really? In a 50 mile race? Madness.

In 20 years I’ve seen one pee break go down and that was during a circuit race when we neutralized the women’s pack. The girls all hopped off and squatted in the ditch. Lots of bare asses as we went by.

Roberto Gaggioli lost it and was excitedly screaming ‘look, the women they pee!’ That incident was the highlight of my racing career.

Romain Topcap

one of the mandatory requirements for an cat-3 upgrade has to be the peeing test while riding a bike at 20 m/h. if not mastered, one has to stay with the 4’s.

Pee wee Norman

What consitutes a good ground for the leader to call for a piss break?
Seriously, regardless of the category, calling for a piss break for a 50 mile race seems silly. Why would others want to wait?

Arno Hammer

Haber was pissing off the side of the bike both days.

He got fined first day for pissing on someones property, think he was playing the tactic of we all get fined , was amusing indeed.

At green mountain everytime there was piss break people attacked,

To be pro you have to be able to shit whilst riding without making a mess, still working on that one, on 20th pair of bib shorts

Shy Bladder

Often have to pee during a race, but never even considered a pee-stop. It would take me forever just to get it started. My race would end right then and there. Geez, my bladder slams shut if someone walks up to the urinal next to mine.

Cadel Evans

If you were in the race you should know the results. Nobody else cares.

Whining about when results are posted is not cool.

Loggia O-Ring

oh yeah? that’s why the yellow jersey holders didn’t know whether they should be wearing them or not? idot.

sammy sanchez

if you’re in the race you often have no idea what happened in the results apart from the people right around you, and much more so in a stage race. anyway, i wasn’t in the race and i want to know the results. promoters should post them as soon as possible. how hard is it.

Loggia O-Ring

email dieter? yeah that’ll be effective. last time i checked, this is a public forum for airing such grievances as non-posting of results. people aren’t complaining about some shitty park races, this was supposed to be a BIG IMPORTANT RACE YEAH.

for all his grandeur, dieter is a pretty shitty promoter when it comes down to the small details that count. like at least making results available DURING THE STAGE RACE, let alone afterwards.

Romain Topcap

they were up on the morning of the third stage, but got taken down before most of us could see them. something was wrong in the print and they had to be re-done. so the 3rd stage started without knowing the standings, besides GC…
wasn’t it similar at Battenkill this year?

massimo mo

Haber initiated a pee break on the R train this morning on his way to work. The N train didn’t wait and attacked.

Wheelsuckaaaaaaa

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah CAPS LOCK. blah blah blah blah CAPS LOCK CAPS LOCK.

blah blah CAPS LOCK YEAH blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Loggia O-Ring

oh ok, please direct me to a more appropriate place–because when i read the description of this hangover thread, it mentioned that no results were posted. and they still aren’t.

chazz reinhold

i think the forum where cat 4s get to anonymously call dedicated stage race promoters “shitty” is at your mom’s house. they’re serving meatloaf, so get on over there.

Pro Spring

The idea that people shouldn’t/don’t care about race results is absurd enough that it probably comes from a defensive organizer that is incapable of getting results out on a timely basis.

How can a stage race be taken seriously if accurate results are not ready (and reliable) the morning before the next stage?

I’m not suggesting it’s easy, but it’s a problem that others have obviously solved by either throwing money at the problem (GMSR) or just being organized (Charlie).

Sure, safe, well-marshalled and well-run races in cool locations are far more important than results reporting, I get it.

But you can’t run a race without knowing the results, and if you know them, is it really that hard to have someone, anyone, post them somewhere? Copy. Paste. Send.

Phew! I feel much better now!

results, phooey

i know i know, who gives a crap about cat 5, but as long as this is the topic…basking ridge cat 5 results were crap, bunch of numbers with no name attached, didn’t even report me as being there, they were clearing the grandstand when 5s came up. of course i don’t give a shit about a top 10 finish in a cat 5 race, but as long as you are paying entrance fee, etc, be nice to earn the points toward upgrade. usa cycling nicely responded to me, saying the BR didn’t report anything (confusing since they seem to be up), but BR never even responded to me.

chazz reinhold

here’s an idea for you: when a decent guy like dieter devotes enormous time and energy to promoting races for losers like us, you cut him a little slack when things don’t go perfectly. it’s infantile to go on here on monday morning and whine about results. “is it really that hard”? i don’t know, i’ve never promoted a stage race. have you?

whatevs

points toward upgrade.

i don’t know if it is easy or incredibly tough, but it is their job. not my concern whether it is an especially lucrative or rewarding one. basic transaction, i pay, they deliver what they say they will

gvpresner

It is true, though, that some cycling promoters have an issue with results. Running’s not like that. You can run the Sister Frances Diarrhea 5K for Lost Dogs and before you get home they’ll send you an email with your fatass,4,385th place time

Lenny Chainline

The Prologue results were available that evening before bed. Dieter sent out an email with a link to the site.

The results for the 2nd stage were posted asap after the race (at least for the Cat3s). Walk over to a wall and do the math. You could a) figure out how far back you were, and b) from that, do some simple math and figure out where you were in GC.

Not so tough … or perhaps you were too busy snapping photos with your smartphone to post on Facebook. Yeah, there in the back of the photo is the yellow jersey winner checking the results posted with tape on a wall.

Which leaves stage 3. Podiums were settled right after the race.

What planet are you guys on? Does everything need to be on the friggin Internet? Man up and take personal responsibility for your racing. Train more, Internet less.

Did you ride the race? Can you even imagine what it took to get bikes on that awesome climb?

Thanks for the great race Dieter!

Pro Spring

Ah yes, the old “if you dare offer an opinion and constructive criticism you are whining and unfairly assassinating someone’s character” argument. Good one.

I bet Dieter (nice guy, btw) barely slept the whole weekend. I imagine promoting a race is a thankless, hassle-filled, exhausting and not-profitable-enough affair. And yes, I’d rather have races than results.

But expecting timely results does not insult anyone, and it is not an unreasonable request. And people who say you’re top 5 or pack fill are not representative of the vast majority of racers.

Wheeelsucker

pro, you’re smart enough to understand that chazz reinhold’s point is how most of the gals/guys in our community think.

“hey X, i’d be nice to have some fricken results”
and
“this is a public forum for airing such grievances”

are not constructive criticisms, and they got the response they deserved.

Loggia O-Ring

here’s some constructive criticism:

make posting correct and timely results a priority in the races you promote

Hoornweg Whooblehops

j-sus, roboto, are you trying to track PBs? they’re expensive and cant measure what matters: whose tire crosses the line first.

i love charlie i’s method. guys in the money get places, and the rest of you can go suck it. exactly the way it should be.

box rimster

in 08 the results were up fast and they were correct. This is the second year for this race and it goes down and up mountains through at least 4-5 different towns. Dieter is doing a great job bringing us a new stage race close to NYC/Metro area with great towns to stay in. Give the guy a break. he likely lost money on this race and barely races anymore on his own so that he can give us races like Battenkill, Baloon, Catskills, to name just a few, Plus he supports a junior team and a Cat2 team. He is one of the best guys in the sport on the NE.

Thank you! Oh – and the results will be up I am sure of that. Maybe Tues, Maybe Weds but they will be up.

Anonymouse

what is this, the idotarod?

do we promote races? go email dieter w. your observations and shut your piehole already.

Egon

this crit was well organized and well attended. expo area fininshing, banner, camera Joe saling, the whole works. 100 dollar preems in the master fields. and good money for the finish

compare that to the suffer fest up in the catskills , no prize money . piss breaks, and shitty fields. 3 hour drive

are people afraid of crits??

or is it NJ in general

Lorenzo Pulley

It’s actually possible to have enjoyed the Tour of the Catskills, appreciate Dieter and his hard work AND at the same time want to know your results from his race. In fact, I want to know my results in part because it was such an awesome race. So Dieter — I appreciate you. I loved your event. Now could you please post the results?

I would think the whole issue of “results” would be of fairly obvious importance to a race promoter. If no one cared how they did, why would they bother to compete against other people?

bikereg

not there.

there is a difference between wanting to know your results and wanting to know your results within 24 hours.

Gilles Rim

In Dieters defense, he made a great effort to put on the best race possible. Yes the results were all messed up after the second day, and are taking quite a while to get straightened out and posted, but you really can’t blame him alone for that issue. He’s not the one at the finish line with the camera keeping track of such things, but i’m sure, now that the race is over, that he is trying his best to remedy the situation and get the results up ASAP.

bikereg

Domenico, that was actually kind of funny.

of course we can “blame” him, do we credit other people when things go smoothly? that’s the way it works.

Whiners

TT results were all wrong, but were posted —

http://www.anthemsports.us/

Chances are they had to be redone, so be patient and look at your vain faces on FACEBOOK and TWITTER your whining lungs to your 1000 FRIENDS in cyber space!!!

Pathetic — How many of you fools have actually MET Dieter, had a beer with him and conducted a conversation with the man?

I was at the race, compteted and had a great time racing, drinking and socializing! I heard no one whining, but now one day after fools are complaining.

RESULTS are being redone, so wait!

Signed,

Mature Adult

blahbiddy blah

gee, mature adult, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that being social with the promoter was a prerequisite for expecting things that come with the job of promoting an event. I agree he’s a good guy, great race, blah, blah, but c’mon, that’s retarded.

do i need to give him a hug in order to make sure the route is clearly marked?

Vespaciano Housing

the results are in…you all suck!
Dieter, why put up with these babies?
is it really worth it? I think not…just run it as Gran Fondo of Bitch-Asses Festival! Does anyone really care? Make it to pro? Because of any of these races?
Do what Univest does. Pro/Invite plus Fondo…then you might be able to run the race, and make money, without punk ass piss stops…sheesh!

blahbiddy blah

what, anonymous bitching? yeah, that’s really painful….Last I checked he was still collecting entry fees.

Bent Overmi

Yeah Vapidchiano, you tell em brah!! These biatches obviously have their taints in a bunch over absolutly nothing and just need to chill the mutha F out!

Its so f’ing ridiculous that after spending $128 bucks to enter, driving 2 to 3 hours, booking a hotel, and racing for 3 days that these whiney ass clowns would like to know the results of their race. Sheeeeeeeeesh.

box rimster

Would hate CX. Those results are FUCACKTA. Try scoring a B race with 90 starters lapping eachother and all that jazz. Guys race for 45 minutes in the cold muddy rain and get DNFS after pulling off a top 15.

As for Tour of Cats results… Upstate Hardmen (07 reference) dont care about results.

Jonas Internal Routing

oh yeah? try scoring a dog show. gotta keep an eye out for licking one’s balls at inopportune moments. that’s a minus 5. no pee breaks either, unlike tour of catskills.

Vespaciano Housing

the results are in…you suck! not because of a certain placing, but because you don’t enjoy the beauty of the race for itself…
priceless!!! not price less…

Jasper Sealant

I hear that you can get Tri results pretty quick. Have you tried one? Sure there are winners, but EVERYONE is a winner in a tri … even if you are 100th.

You can drive 2-3 hours, pay $125 bucks, and get to SWIM, RUN, and BIKE and get FAST results.

Stupid bike road races. The only places that really matter are 1,2,and 3. And those guys know already.

Bent Overmi

Seriously fo fucking reals…you guys need to LISTEN up to Ass Sealant and Vapidchiano!

They are clearly REAL deal racers who just get out there and give it their absolute all for the pure beauty of the sport!

They know if they are not first, they are just the first loser.

They have a keen intuitive sense that there is no reason to know where they place day to day in stage race – certainly no reason to know the time standings of who is in front or behind them. They know it doesn’t matter, brah, just GO FAST and don’t be a LOSER.

And they certainly know there is no reason to review the standings after a race, and maybe think a little about who you beat and who beat you and how things went down and the cards you might have played differently and what you might do to improve. No – they know for a fact that none of that matters one bit, because you are either on the PODIUM or a LOSER, for REALS!!

So listen up all you loser biatches and learn from the real racers.

Outthere

As a rule, you should assume 75 percent of people whining for results weren’t even in the race – they’re just Meatloaf cases dying to see where they “would have placed” if they’d gone or wanting to laugh at people who got dropped.

Bent Overmi

Lemmi guess Vapidchiano, you’re still living at home waiting for your ween region to show some signs of hair and growth and looking for someone to sport you a derailleur.

Jasper Sealant

ok. listen up.

bitching about results makes for terrible reading. bitching about bitching about results makes for terrible reading as well.

in fact, the bitching has far eclipsed posts about “kill[ing] it” and “epic” races.

the pee talk was pretty good, but then it turned into bitching about Cat4s, 50 mile races, and people bitching about bitching.

all this bitching makes road racing seem pretty bitchy.

any good sports psychologist will tell you that being bitchy hinders your performance. So judging by the amount of bitching we can infer …

1) the original bitchers perform poorly
2) the bitchers about bitching, while trying to act all cool and omniscient, are also not performing to their potential. So while being Cat2s, they’re probably slow 2s.

And here I am bitching about people bitching and those who bitch and the bitchers.

Pretty lame. Anyone have anything positive and/or interesting and/or epic to share?

Vespaciano Housing

so, you’re saying you were NOT first on your team??? you are pretty lame? you probably washed bikes, and slept on the floor of your 10 to a room for $128, and did laundry…
hence your lovely nickname??? didya wake up with a hemoroid?
priceless! I need a piss break…

Benjamin Threadlock

I did Tour of the Catskills. While the results issue was frustrating, all other aspects of the race went smoothly. There were no issues with fields getting mixed up (with the exceptions of the inevitable mixing due to racers getting dropped), and on Stage 2 there was a motorcycle crash on the course and Dieter was able to detour the fields with 0 problems. That can’t be easy to do on the fly.

So, I personally thank Dieter for his efforts and for bringing another fun (and hard!) race to us. I’m sure the results will be up soon, and, as was said, those who won, know.

phil

was a fantastic race, and cannot believe we do not have more racing there.

No mixing of fields, nice. There are always going to be a few teething problems with a new race and why not put up some real suggestions for improvements instead of just moaning.

Personally,

1, I would say , yes results need to be quicker ( think they got the message on that by now ),especially on stage race.

2, KOM sprints needed to be marked better, not just paint on road, but yellow signs maybe on the side of the road.

3, More advertising to community, alot of local residents did not know bike race was even happening till the day of, restaurants were shut etc, they could have taken better advantage to make money from us hungry racers.

4, Work on getting Mavic or sram support, heard over the intercom about ” does anyone have tools for fixing bikes” , not good, better to just say go see the sram mechanics, not sure of the money or requirements to get this, otherwise see if local bike store would be interested in offering service for advertising.

All in all stage 2 , even with the diversion was one of the best races I have seen, the final climb really made it a great race, and you could not have asked for better weather.

The TT stopped alot of people from coming, but yet still more riders than the last year, I think this race will continue to grow and put up some suggestions for improvements rather than slagging everything off.

jersey shoreman

i saw a bunch of homo’s biking around in my town the other day and i can’t seem to get the results from their race. on the race website, there’s a link for results, but it’s like they’re invisible. am i crazy?

http://www.tourdefairhaven.com/results2009.php

by de way, i have a nice mountain bike, it’s like an 02. it’s good, it’s a trek, and i was wonderin if yous guys thought i could do ok in a race like dis. i have a tremendous squat, and excellent calf definition, so. how much you tink dat trek is worth, anyways?

Romain Topcap

have to say that kissena looks way more organized in their riding than the catchers behind. nice double pace-line, sort of even spacing, no wonder they won.

Deeda

I agree 100%. TOC was just a solid kick ass hard race. Both days had their share of beauty and suffering. Whether you were off the front, sitting in with the field or hanging on the back for dear life (or even if you got dropped and were just searching for a wheel to hide behind), you have to admit that was a pretty damn good event. I haven’t been racing that long, but geez, I can’t imagine a regional bicycle race being much better. Even Cat 5 racers were able to get in on the action. That’s solid experience for people new to the sport.

All that said, it would’ve been nice to have timely accurate results. I don’t think it’s too much to ask. I would never complain about it, but I can see where people are coming from on that point. Maybe Dieter should partner with Alan Atwood for processing of results.

Dieter

Hi Folks,

Thanks for coming this weekend. Despite a few glitches, all went well from our perspective. The one glaring issue is, of course the results. I am 0-2 this year with big races and accurate and timely results (Battenkill had a similar issue with a different vendor this year). Unfortunately, Alan (preferred choice as always) was not available for Catskills this year. If he or the other A-listers were there this year the results would have been up within hours if not sooner.

My sincere apologies. I hope to be able to have something to publish by this evening.

Lorenzo Pulley

I know that after all three stages, the timed results were posted on paper at the race site. So if you have the timed results for each stage, what’s the glitch in computing the GC results? Is it just that absent some workable computerized system, you have to do it manually with a calculator? (which would certainly be a huge pain for 200+ racers and 3 stages). Or is it that the times that were posted aren’t reliable? Or?

This is not meant to be smart ass in any way. I’m pretty new to racing, and don’t fully understand how results are managed, particularly over a multi-day race. Trying to learn something…

The TOC rocked – challenging, beautiful, exciting and well run. So thanks to all who put it on.

Bent Overmi

I for one would liket to both sincerly thank you for putting together an amazing race, and also for the recognition that the results are important to us. Good luck sorting it out.

DC

Someone should check with whoever did the results for the Millersburg (PA) stage race. I don’t know how they did it, but the results for each field were available within minutes of the finish, with the GC placings available just a few minutes later. It seemed accurate and was so nice. Never experienced the like.

Noe Tank

The results in the Lancaster area races are always done nearly instantaneously. It is incredible and should serve as a model for everywhere else in the country.

Jacomo Exterrutiachurrobambe

CX races usually have FULL (every single rider) results minutes after the race is over, posted online 24 hours later at most.

Dill Wede

Whoever continues to promote the greatness of cyclocross, will you please shut the fuck up!? Don’t ruin this by attracting annoying, obsessive roadies who will only spoil our fun by “eliting” up our fun. Forreals.

Kylian Topcap

we know jv loves to get to the nyse and pump cmg .. a little risotto with his blonde brit trader doesnt hurt .. grrrrrr

Kylian Topcap

i cant imagine the folks on the nasd and grmn will be able to keep up with the nyse’s and jv’s brit bombshell .. surprised he ate any risotto .. ahhhh nyc!!!!

mike hawke

so doug wins all the stages and finishes 6th on gc? sounds about right. looks like roger got a rogering this time!

Ivan Bentspoke

Usually the problem isn’t instantaneous results at the race, it’s the delay before they are uploaded onto a website somewhere (though clearly Catskills suffered in both departments). Honestly though, I think staring at results, especially to races you didn’t even participate in (which most of us are probably guilty of), is one of the least healthy aspects of this sport. And that’s saying something.

i don't know

in a sport rife with doping, eating disorders, etc., looking at results is what you think is unhealthy? that’s ridiculous.

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