Hangover 3/19/2007

Section head text.

There was no racing this weekend for our hangover discussion. We did seem to have some lively discussion around rebating or donating entry fees, which shows me that we had an amazingly slow news weekend.

I will be donating my entry fee for Grant’s Tomb. I have a job. I like to race bikes and it won’t make any difference in my day to day life if I give the cash to some college kids to cover the race expenses. You may feel differently, and that’s fine.

You should also go over and kick that lazy Cratchit in the butt, because you know he’s not concentrating on his sums properly; what with all that ridiculous shivering and sniffling.

112 Comments

French

"if wine is spoiled, can’t you chug it?"

If the chugger is American, then then both will get what they deserve.

phil jahnke

Girona Spain.
I spent a week there in early Feb. Well worth it. Hotel Historic is the place to stay. 4 stars and worth every penny!
Italy is Tuscany. Spent a week there Feb 2006. Nice. Amazing food and wine and enough tourist stuff o keep the misses happy. Maybe along the Adriatic coast. Rimmini and Riccione are nice but touristy.
Belgium. Stay in West Flanders for flat kinderkops(or "childrens heads" aka cobbles). Wallonia for hills and French speaking. Plus great beer all over.

Wine at Rollers

The red wine in the small boxes given out at the first roller races was spoiled. Not bad wine, spoiled wine (which doesn’t argue in favor of the innovative packaging). I bet this wine is pretty good, but that batch was completely undrinkable.

Nice

Nice comment "Roller". I am sure that you got that for free at the roller race. Your comment will really help sponsors decide to give out more free product to cyclists at events. Very classy. a-hole.

what race are you doing that day to aim for upgrade points?

what race are you doing that day to aim for upgrade points?

Roller

I chugged some of that Bandit down on East Broadway in December and found it repulsive (maybe because it was chasing St Pauli?).

Good point about Charlie I

His events are a higher standard than that other guys. And I like Tour de Parc more than Great Neck (maybe because I got dropped at GN and won money at TdP).

But don’t pre-judge the GN race – it’s a good race. Assuming AVD does it as well as it was done the last time.

Anonymous

i won’t race great neck simply cause it doesn’t qualify for upgrades. i could care less about prize lists. i’d be more excited to win a dozen dunkin donuts than $100.

Littlefield

Someone was going to put on a better, longer race with good prize money. In this case, Charlie I. cancelled a terrific race (Tour de Parc) ar a terrific and very spectator friendly venue (Cedar Creek Park) so there would be no conflict with this Great Neck. In my opinion, Great Neck should have been cancelled and TdP should have been greenlighted. But that’s just my opinion.

Or what?

"If someone is going to the trouble of putting on a race and I think there’s even sponsorship money for this one, try to do it right."

Or what? Don’t do it at all?

totally venting....

…is it possible to make a link in these comment boxes? I feel I’m being oppressed by fox communications…..

OMG myspace

I want to write LOL and OMG a lot MORE OFTEN. Where is Ray Alba. Did you see my facebook page.

LOL

Great Neck

Even the Pro/1/2/3 is short of counting for upgrades.
If someone is going to the trouble of putting on a race and I think there’s even sponsorship money for this one, try to do it right. All races should meet min USCF criteria for upgrades.

there's a chicken-and-egg thing with women's races

In terms of distances and field size. For this one, 10 miles is plenty for a 10-rider field. But with a 10-mile race, only 10 women will show up. If the promoter had confidence more women would show up, but w/o that confidence the promoter is sorta shooing them away with the short distance.

One other thing — I don’t put it on women alone to drum up participation in their events. I put that one everyone who claims to be a leader or opinion-maker in cycling.

Great Neck is a sweet race

Or at least it was the one time I did it. Ten and 15 miles are pretty short, but in a 15 riders field (for the women) there will be good action. If it’s 30 riders in the short men’s races those distances will be OK – but if it’s 60 or 100 riders the distances are too short.

Not sure I can make it this year.

shorties

So the races are short, and thus favor a field sprint, but when you think about the size of most women’s fields a long race is usually a waste of time. If you’re going to complain about women’s races being short and purses being small, you should either be recruiting more women to race (thus increasing the value of the field), or donating money to increase the purses for women’s races.

Chris M

Ive never been to Great Neck, but it strikes me that all the races are silly short and not worth hiking all the way out there, and one could observe that the 4-5 race is same px as 3-4 with less than half the purse! Nice. Sign up, and subsidize the 3-4 race in addition to the 1-2-3 race. The womens field is only a touch sillier short than the 4-5, so its not all that clearly an insult from my perspective, though I agree it should be at least 15 mi – what does that save for him – 12 min??? Sheesh.

OK – back to the same issue – Im psyched that AVD is promoting races and offering us all race opportunities, but I must say, I think Ill pass on this one…

Chris M

All in CRCA owe JT a "thank you" for his years of updating the CRCA site – a fairly thankless job really. I do wish results postings were a bit faster, but also realize there are often mitigating circumstances that cause delays, like protests and trouble confirming positions between the various pickers. Still, the club has always been prompt about notices about races, which is key. thats why I was so confused not to see what I expected to be an announcement about sat…

AVD Great Neck - an insult to women riders

registration open at bikereg.
could he be more insulting to women riders?
10 mile race – lower purse than Cat 5 men. Why even bother to hold the women’s race?

CATEGORY DISTANCE START TIME FEE PRIZES
Cat 3,4 15 miles 11:00 AM $25 700.00
Woman 10 miles 11:45 AM $20 250.00
Master 35+ (No Catergory 5 Racers allowed) 15 miles 12:30 PM $25 500.00
Cat 4,5 15 miles 1:15 PM $25 300.00
Pro, 1, 2, 3 30 miles 2:15 PM $30 1000

Uh, duh

Because he’s only expecting one woman to show up. It would behoove you to take note that he does not use the plural.

That chick’s gonna get rich!

no, the crca website is accurate

and reasonably up-to-date about race schedules

Schedule stuff related to months from now would be updated a few days after the change was known.

Schedule stuff related to the coming weekend, if such a thing happened, would be updated as soon as possible.

In the past, when freaky weather or other problems threatened a race, we’d put a note on the site saying "race is in question, decision will be made at X time" and then right after that time, the info would be online. Same system now.

Results are slower for sure — but people’s actions/decisions don’t depend on results being prompt.

Chris M

Oh crap – stirred up a storm for no reason – I guess I focused on the 24th and thought it was this coming weekend’s race – didnt realize it was June. Sorry! I signed up for that date and gather it was removed later on. The 6/24 date wasnt in the system when I rescheduled the marshall date, so never got a chance to see the June date again… My bad…

Let the riders know what?

The dates in question (or at least the one I know about 6/24) is not on the schedule (never was, or at least hasn’t been since the last schedule update Feb 19) so why are riders going to show up?

Or do you mean CRCA should put a note on its schedule saying "A race that was not on this schedule (6/24) is still not on this schedule, so don’t come"

Does that make sense????

CRCA - dates: Are you sure? Pls confirm

Doesn’t make sense though – would they let marshals know and not the riders? If they were still working it out with parks dept they wouldn’t just dismiss the marshals..

Chris M

So I got an email from Wendy yest am about re-scheduling a marshall date for the CRCA race this weekend due to an apparent cancellation of the race this sat by the parks dept. For some reason its not posted on CRCA site yet, along with 2 other later dates that evidently have been canceled also due to park schedule conflicts. Anyone else hear about this?

a couple of thing about TTs

the venue ideas are nice, but the other part of putting on a race is, ummm, putting on a race.

ab

I’m not sure if this is happening these days, but I remember racing Riverhead race track as a junior when I lived on LI. That’s where LI’s empire qualifiers were.

Riverhead is accessible by LIRR, no? Maybe this venue could see more action.

Sandyhook

I didnt know Sandyhook was near floyds. Can one cross the harbor via bike or is it mult-lane Fwy thorougfare traffic?

-lee3

Yeah, and Perkins too. . .

In fact, Bear Mt. used to be a 3-day event, with the hill climb on a Friday p.m., road race on Sat. and TT on Sun. Or perhaps it was Memorial Day weekend (sat/sun/mon). Can’t remember now, it was so long ago. But Perkins would be a very good way to blow the soot out of the legs for a time trial. One problem is that Bear Mt. is so much more crowded on weekends than it used to be.

lee3

Floyds:
There’s just something about sandtraps in fast corners that just didnt seem TT’ish.
wildly unpredictable winds kill results.
Most untechnically challenging course I can think of.

I didnt mind the concrete so much.

random starving artist boring monday thread story:

i was so hungry once i stopped by a field and ripped out some wheat and ate it. it was sort of sweet. sort of.

But my granpa always had better "we were so poor and we walked 20 miles in our bare feet in the snow to fight at bapaume" stories.

Orcutt

What do you guys have against Floyd ? The surface is better than Central Park these days, even if it is 60 year old concrete. You can prepare at the Sandy Hook TT April 7 – it’s just across the harbor from Floyd and at least as windy.

the cemetary story is funny

random story for a boring Monday: when I was a kid I used to go on long rides in the summer to go fishing and do other stuff a ways from my home. And I had no cash.

So sometimes I bonked so bad on the way back that I would eat fruit I found growing along the side of the road – like beach plums. And suck honeysuckle flowers.

The Silvermine course

at Bear Mt. is probably the best alternative for a TT. A bit out of the way, but not much further than Rockland, and much better than Floyd. Perhaps a post-event club ride and beer party at the Inn could be arranged for the same day.

Anonymous

Rockland lake is nice for doing some training echelons etc but the road is not in good condition. Some hills and some nice scenery but it has terrible roads.

don't laugh...

when I was a kid I was riding through a huge cemetary at dusk with 2 friends. I somehow got separated from them and by the time I found the exit the gates were locked. I tried to throw my bike over the fence but it was too high, so I tried to hide the bike and I climbed over and walked home. the next day I had to walk back and pick up my bike, which was still there.

lee3

Someone posted an idea about having an ITT @ Rockland Lake. Is this a better course than Floyds? I’ve never been there so I dont know what its like. Are there hills?

last word on the ITT incident

heh heh

whether it’s a speeding bicyle or a car, a person needs to make sure that its safe to cross a road before they cross a road. Even in the park at 6:30. It’s just common sense.

other than that, yeah, it’s a tragic accident.

Anonymous

not to get pedantic or anything baldwin, but you’re taxable after your first 76,000. above that you pay for your very useful nuclear umbrella. ("i’m so wownwy")
now, i don’t seem to remember whether the tax code defines "foreign income" as being either gross, or net. wink wink nudge nudge.
notwithstanding the above, you are also exempt from US income tax if you sleep in a merrill mankini.****

****the above does not constitute tax advice nor is it intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the internal revenue code as per IRS circular 230

DHR

I know we’re all saddened by the lack of action this weekend, it sucks for all of us. The college kids who didn’t get to come to NYC to race. The USCF racers who lost a week of good racing attitude, which we will never get back in August when we’re sick of seeing the backsides of the rest of the packfill. Do we have to rehash the Central Park ITT incident over and over again? It was a tragic accident that was the result of many factors, the end result is it may take a long time before we see an ITT in the park again. Why discuss the potential causes two years later? Man up and act like adults, something bad happened and we have to live with the consiquences.

RE: ITT death

Yeah, but he was going to break the Central Park ITT record for 45+ , July-August , I wouldn’t have stopped either!

j-off?

if I recall correctly a homeless person wandered onto the course during a time trial. Most likely that person was hungry, sleep deprived, intoxicated/and or suffering from withdrawal symptoms, or some combination thereof. I don’t think you can blame the racer who was, by the way, seriously injured as well. or CRCA for that matter. Any more than you can blame the subway when a drunk falls under a train.

re: AVD

i don’t think the parks dept really careswho is running the races in the park…all they know is some j-off killed somebody during an approved cycling event…

lee3

I just wear shoe covers AND socks. I guess you could put powder in the shoe to keep things dry but things still can get kinda fungy. In the end the powder just comes out of the vents and gets in the ratcheting and velcro. Lots of cleaning.

Baldwin

I’ve done the Graham Baxter camps in Valencia and the Stephen Roche camps in Mallorca. http://www.sportingtours.co.uk and http://www.stephenroche.com Baxter was harder, with lots more climbing and harder groups, mostly Brits on the cheap getting ready to race. Also very good weather, empty roads and cheap booze.
Roche was posher, and you get free wine with dinner. Mostly Americans and some French and Belgian kick-ass senior masters racers.
Mallorca is prettier and greener than Valencia, but no matter where you go you are surrounded by English package holiday white trash tourists and their crappy breakfasts.

Not to say the hotel breakfasts are inadequate or even crappy. They aren’t. And you get a kitchen in your room, too.

Potty

In almost all the spring classics in Belgium and France I notice that many pros will wear arm warmers but no leg warmers at all. I don’t know what the temps are like in Belgium and France in March and April but surely Belgium in March must be below 60F and they do races and stages of 3 – 6 hours. Maybe in training they would wear warmer clothes but while racing, they certainly don’t seem too concerned.

Re time trial accident

Just fyi, the accident was during a CRCA race not Spring Series, and the parks dept still lets us race there for pack races – just gotta have adequate marshals, which CRCA is diligent in ensuring. AVD must do same, and appears to be attempting that end goal…

roller world, the sequal

I did one of them thar "sweet spot" workouts on the rollers this a.m. That’s pretty hard work, actually. Fell off 3X, for crissakes. . . wish I had a video camera set up, as I almost achieved forward motion again. But not pleasant. Bruise on wrist this time. Andy, I sure have been getting my $87 worth out of those EcoTracks! Many more miles on those than on the road. . . no hills in the legs yet, but base is getting bigger and bigger.

From AVD

PS. we got a warning from the parks department if we do not have enough marshals (40) they will take away our permits and that mean not more racing in Central Park. So please bring out a friend or a warm body to the next race in Central Park.

We have run the race in the park since 1968 and I would like to keep it going. But with out enough marshals you maybe riding you last race in Central park.

temps

around nyc, if not to windy, and feels like 60F, it is good to cover your knees, it’s best to go with ‘feels like temp’ as guide.

counter-current heat exchange

you saw it here first: ergo Ken Harris (and his sockless, uncovered ankles) IS NOT HUMAN

Coach L

There are a couple of factors one must consider before stirrping down. Humidity and wind chill are the obvious ones. I come from the Midwest where its usually damp and windy – so I usually set 60 as the limit for leg warmers (training) and 70 for knee warmers. But some of the coaches I trained with who work at altitude where it is much drier advise their riders to drop 10 degrees off the numbers I stated and what you guys (and gals) seem to agree on.
But there are other factors in play. I mentioned countercurrent heat exchange, but there is also a surface area to volume ratio to consider. Thicker riders have less skin per unit of girth, and dissipate less heat than more gangly, thinner riders. This would add a swing factor of about 5 degrees either way if your are particularly heavyset or thin.
Coach L

in cross country ski racing

below about -4F (-20C) is considered unsafe to race in – potential to damage the lungs from vigorously breathing in cold air

easy training at that temp is a different story and quite accepted

TH

i think the generally accepted temp is around 60 degrees. anything lower and you should really have your knees covered.

temp...

does it follow then that there are temps that are too cold to ride/race even with full length tights/shoe covers? I’ve read elsewhere not to ride with shorts in cold weather but I’ve never read not to ride at all under certain temps.

Anonymous

I was going to ask the same question. Is it okay as long as it doesn’t "feel" cold? Or is it a minimum temp limit that is okay?

Chris M

So does anyone have experience with bike tours in Europe for serious cyclists (ie. maybe groups focused on real miles each day but still nice places to stay and eat etc)? Id appreciate any leads for summer/fall 07 to fill a vacation slot. Anyone done vacation in Italy with bike and have a favorite destination for a home-base from which to ride?

VELO VENETO

Check out velo veneto. Its a company that caters to american bike racers. They let you race some good local italian races as part of their "club". I know some guys who did it and had a great time. If you don’t wanna race, you can just do the training rides, which are quite hard, as well.

walter

my wife and i did a serious cycyling trip for our honeymoon. http://www.martyjemision.com he is a former pro for US Postal…we did an 8 day trip through the pyrenees (4-6 hours of climibing each day). let me know if you’re interested in talking about it…was the most amazing trip either of us had ever been on. epic climbing, phenomenal food and wine…couldn’t recommend more.

Coach L

Guys, guys, guys (and a few of you gals),

I was just reviewing some of the photos from the races last week to see how my riders were positioned and noticed something very concerning. For some reason, there are some of you who feel the need to show some skin at these early races when it is still cold out and are wearing knee warmers instead of full leggings.

Now my riders are probably sick of hearing it because I say it so much to them, but this is a critical time of year to protect your tendons and muscles. Those of you with a background in biology may be familiar with something called counter-current heat exchange – its something that birds have where the working muscles are inside the body of the animal and connect to long tendons that work the joints down in the knees and feet. Its an adaptation (say what you will about evolution, but this just makes sense) to dealing with the cold water – BUT YOU DONT HAVE IT!!! Coaching advice on training, tactics and visualization I ususally reserve for my paying clients, but this I feel obligated to share. If you ride exposed to the cold, your muscles will tighthen and and pass the message on to your tendons who will suffer by working outside their healthy range. Remember, tans are temporary, but those tendons have to last you all season, and for the rest of your life. So unless you want to prematurely end your careers as cyclists and spend the rest of your days having your knees and ankles sound like you were walking on empty pea pods, please bundle up!

Side note: Due to improvements in my systems and the hiring of an assistant, I’ve opened up capacity to take on a few extra riders for my B and C level service. If interested, email me at coachk@gmail.com

Thanks and stay warm!
L

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