Transcribed and edited by Peter McCormick.

schmalz Today we are here with Michael Barry, now of Team Sky. I think it was announced in the last couple of weeks that you moved over from Team Columbia. Hello, Michael. How are you today?

Barry Hi. Good thanks.

schmalz One thing I’ve always wondered about you, not necessarily about you specifically: A lot of cycling publications in the U.S. will always call Canadian riders “North American” writers. For some reason they seem to think that they have to claim the Canadian writers as also being from North America so as to include you in everything that happens overseas. Have you noticed this phenomenon?

Barry I don’t really pay too much attention to it but I guess you’re right. The American cycling media writes to a North American audience so I guess it’s kind of nice that they include us in their group.

schmalz I wonder why they think they’re readers can’t handle you being Canadian?

Barry I don’t know (modest Canadian laughter). A lot of people tend to think of Canada and America as one big country but Canadians will argue with that and defend our nation.

schmalz Well, you get health care and we just get arguments about health care. It’s a bit different, I think.

You’ve gone from Columbia to Sky. What was the vetting process – I like to call it a dating process – between you and Sky? How did that go?

Every Resource They Could Need

Barry They approached me early in the year and I was interested in the team immediately. What British cycling has done on the track is remarkable in the last 13 years. They’ve gone from two good riders on the track, (Chris) Boardman and (Graeme) Obree, to [being] the dominant nation. It’s been really impressive. Midway through the year I went to Manchester and met with Dave Brailsford. My wife and I saw the facilities and all that. I was extremely impressed not only by what they could offer me and the riders on the team but also the environment they were creating. They’re giving the riders every resource they could need. Most guys (on the team) should be able to reach their potential if they want to.

What British cycling has done on the track is remarkable in the last 13 years. They’ve gone from two good riders on the track, (Chris) Boardman and (Graeme) Obree, to [being] the dominant nation.

schmalz You say you were contacted by them early in the year. Usually, when you’ve been in a contract year, is that pretty early to be contacted? Is that about the norm or is that later than you usually get contacted?

Barry It was about the norm.

schmalz So, you’ll usually know a couple of months ahead of time, or you’ll talk to people, and you’ll see what happens between then and negotiations?

Barry When I was at the end of my contract with Columbia and most of the guys on the peloton, most of the teams start looking for riders around the time of the Giro again.

schmalz How tense is that last contract year for you?

Barry Oh, I’ve been dealing with it since I was a kid, so it’s kind of normal. It’s definitely nice to have a two-year contract. I don’t stress about it nearly as much as I did when I was a neo-pro because in the first years of racing, it’s definitely a bit sketchier; whether or not you can find jobs, stuff like that. But now I’m confident of my abilities and I’ve proven myself. I don’t worry about it too much.

schmalz It does have to be a little stressful. Basically you’re stuck in the position where you’re job hunting every two years.

Barry But I’ve been doing it for 13, 14 years so I’ve gotten used to it.

schmalz You’ve got a lot of resume recommendations.

Barry Exactly.

schmalz You’re going to be using the same facilities that the British track cycling team was using, is that correct, or are they expanding it into a road program?

Barry Yes, more or less. We have those resources. Road teams don’t necessarily need facilities. And British Cycling has the laboratories and all that. We’ll use those, but during the season, the riders don’t really need facilities so much. But we have all the same resources as the track team.

schmalz As you’ve mentioned, the British track team has been phenomenally successful, especially in the short time they decided that they wanted to win Olympic medals. Pow, there they went. I assume they’re going to carry over that same sort of mission to road cycling.

Barry Yes. They started this program in ’96. In the last 13 years, they’ve improved a lot. The road team is another phase in that development and another objective of theirs.

schmalz When you’re meeting with the Sky officials, are they ever talking to you, like, “Say, Michael, I know you have the Rolodex; maybe you can call Mark Cavendish and see what he’s doing? What does he like to eat? Maybe he can come over…” Are they trying to get you to get Cavendish to come over?

Barry No. They know Mark a lot better than I do. Because he’s ridden for them since he was a kid and he’s been part of that program since he was a kid. So, no, they didn’t do that.

schmalz They’re not using you as the key to get Cavendish to come over?

Barry (Bashful chuckle) No.

schmalz That’s too bad. I thought there was going to be some sort of international James Bond-type intrigue going on there.

It seems as if Columbia is losing quite a few riders. Does that say something about Columbia or does it just say that a lot of guys had their contracts coming up this year?

Barry A lot of guys had their contracts coming up, Columbia won more races than any other team in ages. Obviously, there were riders on the team who were sought after by other teams. A lot of guys had good options to join other teams and have different roles on other teams. That’s why a lot of riders were leaving.

schmalz It seems as if there’s a little bit of the breaking up of the Columbia dynasty, because they’re losing some key riders. Maybe they won’t win as much next year. Do you find that it’s going to be tougher for Columbia to win as much next year?

Barry Yeah, it will be much more difficult because they have a lot of new young riders coming on and they’ve lost a lot of veterans. George (Hincapie) didn’t win a lot of races for the team but…

schmalz He facilitated a lot of wins.

Barry Yeah, exactly.

schmalz And of course, Michael, they’ve lost you.

Barry And Thomas Lovkvist and Edvald (Boasson Hagen). All those guys are really strong. Morris Possini was a key in a lot of the stages of the Giro, and Greg Henderson delivered (Andre) Greipel throughout the season, to his victories. They’re going to miss the domestiques for sure. It’s going to be a different team. The leaders of that team: Mark (Cavendish), Greipel – Mark is a really strong leaders, and he’ll pull the guys together. They’ll still win a lot.

schmalz Did you race San Remo with Cavendish?

Barry Yeah.

Behind Cav’s San Remo Victory

schmalz What was your role? I know you usually make up a plan before the race starts. Then that plan can really change or stay the same as the race goes on. As the race unfolded that day, was it a lot of shifting of plans or did everything go the way the team wanted?

Barry No. At the team meeting on the bus the night before the race, 95 percent of it was how we would get Mark to the finish line and how we were going to win the race. There was a little mention of, say Mark doesn’t make it over the Cipressa; doesn’t make it over the Poggio; who are we riding for in that situation? So it was then George or Thomas. Those guys had the opportunity if that happened, but everyone was confident that Mark was going to be able to do it. So we rode for him to win the race.

schmalz Was there any mention of Heinrich Haussler’s name at all?

Barry No. Normally the way the meetings are, we don’t talk an awful lot about the competition and who can beat us. We focus on winning. Because that’s constantly changing and the bottom line is when you are doing these sprints, in most races, if you take the lead, and you and the team have confidence, and take over the race and go to the front, then you have a better chance of winning. Rather than if you set your tactics to race against the other teams. If you’re gauging your efforts on what the other riders can do, then you’re probably going to lose.

schmalz Where were you in the last kilometers of the race? When did your stint at the front end?

Barry At the Cipressa. I was working to keep Mark in position up until then. Going into the small climbs, it’s basically like a sprint every single time. The hard part is getting to the front, so teams will use up a couple of riders just to get the leaders to the front of the climb or to the bottom of the climb at the front, in good position. So when we got to the Cipressa, Bernie (Eisel) and I pulled off, and we rode together to the finish. When we were coming into San Remo, we heard over the radio some cheering and we were like, oh my God, did he win? Some of the fans at the side of the road told us, and we rode in with goosebumps, really. He (Cavendish) definitely won against the odds there. We believed in him, but not many other people did. They didn’t think he’d be able to climb with the other guys over the hills.

schmalz You got to ride in ten minutes later and congratulate him.

Barry Exactly.

schmalz “Great job. I was two hills away, but well done.”

Has Sky implemented their training plan for you yet?

Barry We have our first meeting in November. I’m already in contact with some of the coaches but I’m taking it easy now because it’s the end of the season. I’ll start working with them in the middle of November.

schmalz Does it sound as if they’re going to do something drastically different with you or do you get together with them, decide on a plan, and go from there?

Barry Get together with them, make a plan, and go from there. I’ve already talked to them a little bit about my objectives, and those will be finalized in November, and then we’ll build a training plan based on those objectives.

schmalz And then I guess the objectives for the season will follow.

You’ve been a domestique for the last couple of years. Are you going to ask for more chances to win?

The Happy Life of a Domestique

Barry No. It’s a job I enjoy doing, actually. They’ve told me I’ll definitely have support from the team in a few races, and that’s something they want to give each rider: a goal in the season – something they can focus on and get really excited about. Since I’ve been riding with Postal, I’ve been a domestique and I enjoy it. I enjoy helping out the younger guys on the team and seeing them progress. The last few years with Columbia were the couple best of my career, just because we had a great ambience in the team. The riders rode selflessly for the team, which makes it a lot more fun.

 I’ve been a domestique and I enjoy it. I enjoy helping out the younger guys on the team and seeing them progress.

schmalz In the past, when you’ve had certain races where you’re given the green light, so to speak, how does that change when you’re going to a race primarily to be a support rider? Do you put more pressure on yourself? Do you feel differently? Are you nervous? Do you have an upset tummy before the race starts?

Barry No, it doesn’t change that much. You have the pressure of the whole team working for you. But at the same time, when we go to a race like San Remo, there’s as much pressure. My finish line just changes. My finish line is at the bottom of the Cipressa, and if I don’t do my job properly until then, I’ve failed. The expectations are the same; the finish line changes. We all have our roles within the team and if you’re not doing your job properly, then you let the guys down and you might not get rehired. It’s something that I learned on U.S. Postal. Lance had this group of guys who were incredibly talented and could all win bike races but they rode selflessly for him and for the team. They never questioned the fact that he was the leader, and they were happy with that.

My finish line just changes. My finish line is at the bottom of the Cipressa, and if I don’t do my job properly until then, I’ve failed. The expectations are the same; the finish line changes.

schmalz Did you ever do any stage races with Lance? I think you were more (likely to race) the Vuelta, weren’t you?

Barry No, I didn’t do a grand tour with him but I did many smaller stage races.

schmalz In a one-day race, I would think that the pressure is much higher because any mistake you make is going to take you out of contention, as opposed to a stage race, where you live to race again tomorrow. Do you feel more pressure in a one-day race? Are you watching every move a little bit closer? Is there more tension?

Barry The peloton is more tense, so that changes things. The races just unfold differently.

schmalz Do you think they (one-day races) are more aggressive stages than grand tours?

Barry It depends. You can have a stage in a grand tour that is flat and the peloton just cruises along for five hours and then sprints. Or you can have a mountain stage that is tense from the very start. It’s hard to make a comparison. It’s the same in one-day races. You can have a one-day race like Hamburg, the Vattenfall Classic that’s pretty flat for the first four hours and then the last part is intense. Or you can have race like Flanders, or Roubaix, which is intense from the start to the end, so it’s difficult to compare them. In a grand tour, you have to be extremely aware as well, because it’s pretty easy for a crash to happen or for the peloton to split. If you have a rider up there in the overall classification, his chances could be over pretty quickly. I think we learn to race a certain way, and it becomes second nature.

schmalz I think you’ve gotten to the point where you’ve done enough one-day classics where you know what’s going to happen at certain points.

Predictability and Radios

Barry Bike racing in general is very formulaic. Stage races are the same. There’s a pattern to the races. With radios now, the races are far more formulaic and almost predictable.

Bike racing in general is very formulaic. Stage races are the same. There’s a pattern to the races. With radios now, the races are far more formulaic and almost predictable.

schmalz Well, you’re going to find out next year, maybe, without radios

Barry Maybe. You can see it already in the Under-23 races, in the World Championships, there’s a lot more attacking; the races come to pieces quicker; the way teams ride – they’re not nearly as organized as they were a few years ago with radios. The racing’s more interesting, for sure.

schmalz I think you’re more on the side of not having race radios, is that correct?

Barry Definitely.

schmalz Because you just want the racing to be less formulaic and you know what? The races with radios seem to come from the cars, instead the racers.

Barry Oh, definitely. Ninety percent of the way the teams react is coming from directions from the director.

schmalz To me, to have the director so involved with the radios takes away a big element from bike racing, which is that you have to be tactical and you have to be smart.

Barry Exactly. It’s interesting. Lance used this cliché: he said that cycling is similar to chess on wheels. Well, it is. This tactical element is a huge factor in cycling. It’s what makes it so interesting to the public, yet cycling now is a lot more like checkers: you know what’s going to happen.

schmalz Also, if you’re not a good tactical racer, you should be given the opportunity to lose the race. I don’t want some dumb strong guy winning every race. I want someone who’s a little cagey to get in there and win the race.

Barry For sure. I agree.

schmalz It makes it more exciting, it makes for more breaks, it makes for the type of racing that everyone loves. (Claudio) Chiapucci’s big long attack might not have happened in the age of radios.

Barry Definitely.

schmalz And that’s what everyone talks about; that’s what they love about cycling and radios would take that away.

Barry Yeah. The Tour de France this year was boring and I think a lot of that was because you had two strong teams with one team dominating the flat stages and one team dominating the mountain stages, and the whole race was controlled by the directors.

Of Garmin and Hincapie

schmalz And one team working really hard to screw George Hincapie over. What’s your take on that, Mike? Now that you’re off the team, what was your feeling about that at the time?

Barry I thought it was pretty disgusting.

schmalz From Garmin?

Barry Yeah. And what made it kind of sad was that in the weeks before the race, we were all out together at a barbecue. We were all good friends, and to see this business element drive a wedge between those friendships kind of sucked. It’s all just jealousy… it’s just sad. It’s just pathetic, really.

We were all good friends, and to see this business element drive a wedge between those friendships kind of sucked. It’s all just jealousy… it’s just sad. It’s just pathetic, really.

schmalz There are no more barbecue get-togethers between Garmin and Columbia?

Barry Everyone’s been hearing each other’s side, so it’s calmed a little bit. But it was sad for George, because he’s one of those guys who has given himself to other riders his whole career. He sacrificed opportunities he could have had for other people. That was a great opportunity for him just to have the limelight. They took it away from him because they were jealous, I guess.

schmalz You’re all together in Girona these days. Is there a Crips and Bloods thing going on now?

Barry No (sad chuckle). We’re bike riders now, come on!

schmalz Yes, it would be a terrifically uneventful slap-fight, right?

Barry Exactly.

schmalz I think the Garmin riders got the message from their car. Once again, race radios coming in. I think that the orders came from on high, wherever that may be.

Barry I think a lot of those guys didn’t really know what was going on. They got the order, went to the front, and rode, you know? After they realized what had happened, and what they had done… There’s a pretty good reason for race radios being banned.

schmalz I like it because it builds a little rivalry and makes the races a little more interesting.

Cycling Stars in North America: Long Brief Shadows

Barry It’s great to have rivalries, but at the same time, that was just kind of petty. Well, it was very petty. At the end of the day, an American cyclist in yellow is good for everybody. It’s good for all the American teams when Greg Lemond was winning at the Tour de France; when Lance was winning, cycling was more popular then ever. All these teams in the States brought (cycling) up in the 80s and 90s, and a lot of that was due to one or two riders’ success. You saw it in Canada, when Steve Bauer was winning, cycling was hugely popular and all these small Canadian professional teams grew and popped up. When he retired, that kind of died out.

schmalz Was Steve Bauer your big hero when you were growing up?

Barry Yeah, for sure.

schmalz It’s funny how cycling in non-cycling areas needs one big huge rider to make it catch on. For instance, Thor Hushovd has really made cycling very popular in Norway. It’s because of one guy. If you’re from a non-cycling nation you have to work through other countries to get into the sport. That sort of breeds all the other cyclists. Some places really take to it and build a culture of cycling.

Now that it’s the off-season, you’re probably taking a little time off but also easing back into things, or doing other activities to balance your training out. What’s the most unconventional off-season thing you’ve ever done? Have you ever gone into a jazzercise class?

Barry Jazzercise? Well, yoga classes in Boulder. They are pretty intense (more bashful Canadian laughter). They’re pretty unconventional and a lot of times I have to bite my lip not to laugh.

schmalz Are you very flexible as a cyclist?

Barry No, not really.

schmalz I think it tends to bind your legs up.

Barry Yeah, you’re flexible when you’re on a bike. That’s about it. You get really good at doing one thing. We have a trampoline in our garden here and that’ll be a good thing for me, to bounce around a bit and open my body up. When I look at my kids and see how flexible they are, it’s pathetic, how bad I am.

schmalz “Daddy can’t bend over and pick that up.”

Barry No!

As far as training goes, Pilates, maybe. I tried that one year with Christian Vande Velde in Colorado. In Boulder there’s a lot of stuff like that. You think, maybe it’s going to change my cycling career but usually the best thing is bike riding.

schmalz It’s funny, it goes through stages; you’ve raced long enough to have enough off-seasons to know, “Oh, this is the way: snowshoeing!” And then you realize eventually, you’re just going to have to ride your bike again. It doesn’t have the miracle effects you thought it would.

Barry For sure. You think you’re going to have a better sprint; you’re going to climb better, but no. Riding your bike is the best.

schmalz Yeah, we fall for it every year. Next year I’m going to think of dog-sledding. I’m going to talk people into that.

Joys of Indoor Training

Barry One winter I rode indoors with two crates underneath the front wheel, so it was simulating climbing. Another pro cyclist recommended it to me. It was supposed to strengthen back muscles. I think it kind of works, but it’s a strange sensation, riding with your front wheel two feet off the ground. Every now and then I would teeter over and come crashing to the ground.

schmalz I remember one year when Chris Boardman had an indoor bike treadmill that went up.

Barry Yeah, British Cycling has one of those in Manchester. It’s pretty cool. It simulates the courses and everything like that.

schmalz So it dynamically changes?

Barry You can essentially film a course; put it on a big screen TV in front of you, and then program the gradients and all that into the treadmill, and ride the course indoors.

schmalz Insane. I think the British are getting very James Bond about this whole thing.

Barry When Allan Lim coached me for a while, when I was racing with Saturn, they were already doing stuff similar to that. That’s been done in running for a while. It makes sense, as long as you don’t go skidding off the back.

schmalz Do you do a lot of riding or training indoors?

Barry No, I hate it. I try to avoid it. When I was a kid, I raced on the track and rode the rollers a lot – every day before breakfast for a couple of years. I can’t even get on the trainer any more.

schmalz When you were training in Canada did you have to a lot of indoor miles?

Barry Yeah, every day, I’d come home from school and get on the rollers for like two hours. From freezing cold to hot.

schmalz Are you a power meter guy? Do you have your wattages set? Do you train by feel?

Barry When I’m doing intervals a lot, deep into the season and I have targets, I look at the power meter a lot. But this time of year? No. When I start going again, I just go by feel and enjoy it: ride, stop for coffee, pastries, take it easy, just enjoy riding my bike, chat with the guys.

schmalz But when you do your intervals, what are your wattages like, Michael? Everybody wants to know.

Barry When I’m going good, watts per kilo is a better gauge. You can say, “I can ride 500 watts.” But if I’m 80 kilos, that doesn’t mean a whole lot. So, six watts per kilo is good fitness. When I can hold that on a climb for half an hour, that’s when I’m going good.

schmalz Hearing that makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Barry The guys in the front groups of the Tour are well over that.

schmalz Isn’t seven supposed to be the magic number for a Tour contender?

Barry That’s what they do when they’re winning, like Contador and Lance. One of the things I find interesting, in the long days at the Giro or grand tour, or any race when I’m pulling on the front, you set between 200 and 450 for hours and hours and hours. That kind of workload is pretty impressive. You just accumulate masses of kilojoules.

schmalz On some stages of the Tour, when you’re working at the front, you might actually be doing more work in kilojoules than some of the team leaders, because they’re being protected.

On some stages of the Tour, when you’re working at the front, you might actually be doing more work in kilojoules than some of the team leaders, because they’re being protected.

Barry Almost always you are, yes. There are mountain days when the domestiques are doing more kilojoules than the guys who win the stages. Because you’re sitting in the wind, and they’re on the wheels all day until they need to attack, right?

schmalz And you’re thinking, “those lazy bastards, they’re going to win the race while I’m toiling here all day.” Do you ever get a resentful feeling when you’re working at the front and then someone else wins?

Barry I like looking back when I go through a corner and I see the peloton strung out, and usually our leaders are pretty close behind us. They don’t feel the acceleration, but the guys at the back just suffer like crazy. If there’s a little cross wind: if I’m hurting on the front, the guys behind are hurting. But when you’re on the front, you have a different mentality. It’s harder to suffer in wheels than that it is on the front.

schmalz When you’re at the front, you’re more the hammer than the nails, with everyone behind. It’s a better feeling.

Barry Exactly

schmalz Thank you, Michael. I’d like to call you back after you see all the secret stuff that Sky is doing in Britain. I want to see if there’s any special Q, to use the James Bond analogy … Some sort of special apparatus, like a grease strip that comes off behind your bike, or a smoke screen. I think that could be very effective in sprints.