Mass participation cycling goes green
The first year they were hounded by naysayers, the next – rocked by doping, and last year an unrelenting storm forced many to abandon. But Uli and Lidia are at it again, and if anything they have raised the stakes by franchising their model around the world.
Last year you changed the format to make it into one long race instead of timed climbs, how did the reception differ, in the case of the competitive riders as well as those who are trying to complete the course?
There certainly was relief among the competitive riders because it’s simply the more attractive – or rather only – way to race. Timed climbs are more like oddly strung together TTs with some exercising in between. We were so happy when we finally received the approval for it. Granfondos have been run like that in Europe for over 20 years so we didn’t expect any issues. Among the non-racers there was a lot of criticism beforehand which seemed to entirely come out of the fear of the unknown. Many painted the worst possible scenarios and requested literally dozens of ambulances over the first few miles. But despite the worst weather conditions you could get, nothing serious happened. Afterwards, we received many emails from riders that they loved the format after all.
After the first couple years of answering a lot of questions about the validity of charging people to ride on 9W do you feel like the GFNY has finally become an accepted event locally? What do people most often ask now?
"When can I buy the bib short?" It of course helps to have three years under the belt so the spirit of GFNY and logistics are quite well understood. But we can’t just let the race speak for itself. We spend 50% of our time year round on promoting and explaining GFNY through social media and newsletters but now also through our comprehensive GFNY Magazine. This summer we plan to start a podcast about all things granfondo and GFNY.
Things out of your control seem to keep grabbing the headlines for GFNY: Two years ago is was the positive drug tests that people remembered last year it was the weather- what have you learned from the experience last year?
We no doubt learned a lot last year in terms of logistics under extremely tough conditions. But there was also the new challenge of dealing with increased security requirements following the Boston Marathon attacks. We are used to working with dozens of local and state police forces but having the local intelligence involved put things on a new level. None of these extremes, whether it’s doping, bad weather or safety concerns are something we are excited to have dealt with. However, these challenges force us to question aspects of the race that we would otherwise pay little attention to and by that improve the overall quality of the race.
You are franchising to other cities, how does that work? How can I start one for my hometown, and why wouldn’t I just do it myself and brand it, say, The Dubuque Gran Fondo?
Every year after GFNY we receive dozens of emails of riders asking "What now?". Unfortunately there are only a couple of other granfondos in the US that we feel comfortable to refer our participants to in order for them to have a GFNY-like experience somewhere else. Most other so called "granfondos" in the US are overpriced bike tours in open traffic that have little in common with a true granfondo. They are missing one or all of: timing, results and police moderated traffic providing the riders the right of way at all times.
Plus, two thirds of the GFNY peloton are from out of town. The interest across the globe for participating in GFNY is huge. However, traveling to and staying in NYC is expensive. With our GFNY World events we bring the GFNY experience to other countries. The 2014/15 season will have GFNY World events in Italy, Cozumel, Puerto Rico, Barcelona, Colombia and Brazil.
Partnering with GFNY has the following advantages:
1. Riders know what they get. Anyone can call his event "Gran Fondo" but that doesn’t mean anything.
2. Access to riders from all over the world who trust the GFNY.
3. We share our knowledge in organizing a proper granfondo.
4. Our industry contacts and media reach help grow the event.
5. Going forward, GFNY World events will be gateways into GF New York. Starting with the 2014/15, riders who have finished or placed high at a GFNY World event will receive preferential starting positions. And that, ultimately, will help grow the franchises.
That said, we welcome anyone who takes on the challenge to organize a proper (!) granfondo. As part of our magazine, we created Gran Fondo Super Prestige, a calendar that provides a challenge for North American cyclists, www.granfondosp.com. There is a huge demand for long course road cycling marathons that can serve as races and personal challenges. If you look at the calendar, you can see that there are currently only a handful of events fitting the criteria of a proper granfondo: www.granfondosp.com. There definitely is a need for more.
The problem with rocket/gimbels is the potential for the entire peleton to get wiped out by a car. I’m happy to pay race entry fees to limit the menace to my fellow riders. having said that I would never pay $200 to ride on 9W. I’m not doubting the economics of it for the promoter, but that’s the cost of 5 park races (which are too expensive to begin with). It’s 2/3 of a plane ticket to California, if you want to look at it that way. Just too much $ for a day on a bicycle.
some of the chics are pretty hot. rest stops are an opportunity to chat
Granfondo brings you some of the world’s best amateurs in your backyard to race them. Racing is not about whether you have been on the route before or not (Central Park anyone?). No local needs tour GFNY just to see the route but racing it alongside the most international peloton is cool.
I completely agree with you about the cost and do understand if that puts you off. I strongly disagree with you though that granfondo is killing road racing. It’s the cost for closing roads that kills road racing. I’ve personally seen this happen since the early 90s in Europe. Roads are getting more crowded every year and public costs are through the roof. That’s why traditional road racing is dead whether granfondo would be here or not. Currently only granfondos can stem these huge costs. Let’s hope this changes!
Our aid stations in 2012 had long waits for the middle of the packers. We’ve fixed this issue ever since. Ask anyone who did it last year. The aid stations are three times the size of aid stations at Euro granfondos with the same amount of riders. That said, no racer will have to stop more than once for 100 miles and you guys are up front anyway, right?
It was strange to see someone on NYVelocity complaining about the lines at the rest stops, to experience those you would have to be way back, its more of a NY Cycle Club rider problem. I know everyone here is or was practically a professional racers, has been riding forever and was there when they laid down the first stone on 9W but if you step back and pretend you didn’t invent cycling, why be so hostile to this event? At least any more than any other big city marathon or tri? It brings in tourists and promotes NYC and cycling. If you don’t want to do it then don’t, but don’t take it personally..
my biggest complaint last year was having to wear the wristband the entire night before and while sleeping.
is in direct proportion to lack of results
Did it irritate your fragile skin? Have you tried a soft lotion? Lidia may have recommendations for you.
Slli would consider giving bigger discounts to licensed NYC (or tri-state area) racers….i know there is some kind of thing like that for CRCA members but I’m talking about more than a few bucks off. If you care about having a lot of local racers participate (maybe you don’t) it might sway a lot of us.
“maybe Ulli, (not Silli) would consider…”
We thought about giving discounts to racers but that just means that the other riders pay for them. How would you justify that?
It takes a lot of time and effort to Organize a Grand Fondo successfully. Otherwise, it would be half-aSSed.
Registration is open at https://www.bikereg.com/tour-of-the-catskills
Thanks,
Oligarch.
What’s so special about “racers?”
A town official I know recently put it this way: Would you rather have stoked beyond words wahooo Freds who smile and wave to the town folk or stone-faced self important d-bags come through your town? To spectators, they are all racers.
At what time did you post your post? Was it actually 9:17pm?
*hmm this is deep*
@9:33 – I think most of the GFNY participants are likable.
Their clothes match.
Nothing is special about racers. You could argue that non-racers of whom many wear the GFNY jersey outside the race should get a discount.
Regarding results: it’s not a granfondo if it doesn’t have results.
http://results.chronotrack.com/event/results/event/event-3985?lc=en
The dude on the right is giving you the finger. Not sure what the dude on the left is doing.
I think Gran Fondos could actually introduce non racers to racing. I would love to see a survey asking Gran Fondo participants about events they’ve done or considered doing since doing a Fondo. I think the cost of this one day event should include more on road support. I’m in the fondo and I found myself helping people with flat tires and those who were lost. On that note, it might be a good idea to have some guide signs in places off the route (such as Englewood)to direct people back to 9W in case they’ve gotten lost.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game, for the first 3 years, alpine is when the ride thins out to 50 or so riders. I’ve been there and seen it,
I did the event in years 1 and 3. As a local that was enough. I enjoyed the event but I found it was neither like a race or a fun ride. In both years the fast group was alone by the top of Alpine so if you aren’t there you are out. The next separation was at the bear climb. Beside that there wasn’t much of a selection up front. So, 20k in you are with a group of 30 or so guys and 70k in it is like 15 guys. Fine, but I think the real benefit is for out of towners and local non-racers. I don’t get all the griping about the support since it seemed fine to me. Well organized and ample, if you want it. If you plan to go fast, don’t stop. There are lots of timed semi competitive events though, so after two years of GFNY, my focus is on events out of town. I am happy to see the GFNY guys succeeding in their business but I disagree that road racing is dead otherwise. Maybe in Italy it would be different, but here I’d rather race than fondo (where the race is to get to the front at the start, meh) and if I’m going to fondo, I’ll mix it up.
GFNY is definitely a gateway into licensed racing. I personally know of quite a few guys who did their first competitive event in GFNY and ever since got a license and do other races.
More road support? We used to have a massive Mavic fleet that is now replaced by Campagnolo. You can only do so much for 5,000 people but they do an amazing job. What’s the on course support like in a simple road race?
Getting lost? Only possible if you are behind the end-of-race car, otherwise it’s next to impossible. We have 200 signs and 200 police officers working on the course. Anyone who ever got lost turned somewhere where there was no sign to turn. The turn-off from 9W into River Road has cones and 2 police officers. But they do leave once the end of race car traveling at 10mph (!) has come through. It’s a long day for the cops as well.
If a race is only a race for you if there are 100+ people together until the very end, then half of the pro races are not races. Stop being ridiculous.
uli and lidia are making money and making many people happy. all the power to them! if you like to indulge in disdain, go ahead! life is whizzing by..
It looks like the non-profit Bear is killing the for-profit Hunter. Ayn Rand is rolling over in her grave.
That’s what she said.
It doesn’t feel like a race because you have 5000 people lining up and maybe 30 competitive guys sprinkled in. The pro/1/2 field at Bear next weekend will have more depth. There aren’t teams per se as well. Additionally, while the route us fun it isn’t optimal for a race because the main sections that split the field are in the first half.
“Additionally, while the route us fun it isn’t optimal for a race because the main sections that split the field are in the first half.”
Sorry but if you think Alpine Hill is selective than maybe, just maybe the route isn’t the problem.
There is a race (really a GranFondo) in Cape Town, South Africa called the Tour of Cape Argus. They often have participating in it. I rode the course while there on a work trip a few years ago, and it would be the highlight of my cycling life to ride/race it. It occurred to me though that while the course is indeed awesome the main thing is the exotic locale….for the Italians and others who make sacrifices to come here and participate in GFNY, I’m sure the feeling is the same. For us locals who race….not so much. Still kudos to Ulli and Lidia for pulling this off….it’s another major cycling event from which to choose, and that’s a good thing.
Ulli, Dieter, nyvelocity , just a lot of crappy Ayn Rand entrepreneurial yuppie bullshit that killed club based cycling
OK, I got that part but why Ayn Rand? Does Paul Rand ride bikes now?
Cycling might have been the working’s man sport in the US in the 20s, but it hasn’t been since the post 70s boom.
A Dubuque Gran Fondo sounds like a crazy idea.
Its was all Trotskyites riding machines that killed fascists before the 80s, we used to split the prize money evenly and solo breaks were illegal.
Its the working man himself who has been spoon feed watered down Ayn Rand and votes for it happily Cece Polished
It’s a big green, marketing / money-making machine…gotta love it!
These greedy weekend bike event oligarchs! If only there was some way I could resist giving them my money.
Ayn Rand to Mengoni
perhaps the best comment I’ve ever read on this cesspool….Love it !!!
While I give Uli props for making his business a go, I find it interesting that every year the definition of a Gran Fondo and what exactly a GF experience is changes 🙂 I suspect that has something to do with the fact that essentially you are paying big money to ride over one of the most traveled routes in the region anyway.
All I know is all I ever hear from fellow riders who do it is crazy stories about logistical nightmares at rest stops, etc.
agree with cece… while I respect what Uli has done and he seems like a decent chap (as does Dieter, for that matter), they’re all just additional nails in the coffin of affordable, local bike racing. I see Gimbels and Rocket Ride getting even more popular if folks don’t want to drop $60-$200 bucks to race their bikes. Yeah, they’re not real racing, but they’re free…
2:07am? Take a breath. Get some sleep. In the morning, look in the mirror and say, “Today, I Leonard Grips will love my fellow man a tiny bit more than my posting demonstrated and will buy some punctuation. Just in case”.
GFNY is not a race, and quite frankly I think it is misleading of Uli to promote it as such. 99% of the people are just there to finish, the other 1% are probably not very likeable people. As such, it is a century ride, which is fine and can be loads of fun. Same thing for most of us who run the Boston or NYC marathon, unless you are paid to be at the start line, you are in it to finish.
The fast guys (probably closer to 0.5%) are there to let the other 99.5% brag to their friends that they were in a big race. A race though devoid of tactics, teams, etc. And at the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with big fun rides, just let them be what they are.
Uli Shrugged
Thanks “Froomstrong”. There are always riders who choose not to hop onto the broom wagon. We have to take down the signs immediately which might have led him to get lost. We’re finally allowed to use paint on the road which will help the stragglers.
Others choose to turn instead of going straight which is their fault and hard to prevent unless you put everyone on rails. The way our course is marked now and given how much PD is at work, getting lost is an art.
I’ve been lucky enough to do a GF in Europe. entry fee was about $120. I spend $800 on airfare and another $800 or so on hotel.
Total cost for the trip was about $2500. I had a great time and rode other great roads in France while I was there. I didn’t bitch and whine about the cost. But I find it hard to spend $200 on GFNY simply because these are roads I ride all the time. I find it hard to spend $200 to ride on roads I usually ride for free. If I want to ride with foreign tourists I can do laps in the middle of the day in CP.
It takes a certain conceit to ride a derosa painted to match your kit while monetizing the weekend group ride and making fun of your savvy foreign customers who know better but who also got dropped on the first legit hill of your so called race in the very comments section of the self important article promoting your aforementioned crappy Ayn Rand entrepreneurial yuppie bullshit.
I’d say that about sums it up. Buy my uggs.
They don’t pump cesspools, only septic tanks.
“Sorry but if you think Alpine Hill is selective than maybe, just maybe the route isn’t the problem.”
You come off as a bit of an ass here.
He does it to heighten the air of elite racing that enhances the “bucket list” conceit that fuels the 4965 pack-fill riders at his most international of races.
@Uli Earlier I meant to say tthat I had not done the Fondo and was out riding when I came upon a girl with deraillure problems (I think, it was a few years ago too. We were on the side of 9w and an officer came up to yell at us. He actually made us hop over the guard rail and work on the bike in the brush. What a dick.
A few miles down the road I was headed down a hill into Englewood where I came upon a rider trying to find 9w. He was downtown and completelty lost. Yes, people do get lost only when they take wrong turns. Maybe he missed the sign.
What I’m not sure I understand is why someone should spend so much more money on GFNY, when Gran Fondo NJ is much cheaper, has a tougher course and from all accounts from friends who’ve done it, is run much better.
OK, so NJ isn’t NY and maybe I won’t get an international field, but should I care about that?
Online registration closes Thursday night at 9 for the Hunter-Greene Spring Classic.
https://www.bikereg.com/hunter-mountain-spring-classic
Masters 40/50
Women 3/4
Men Cat 3/4
Men Cat 5
Day-of ok too. Just 5 bucks more.
Same course as the NYS RR Champs on June 28.
Free Battenkill tshirts. Free free free.
Dieter
“GFNY is definitely a gateway into licensed racing”
And Munchkins are the gateway donut….
This was the biggest shit show ever with results. You pay $65 and then you get fields with tons of DNP’s and wrong placings. Terrible. No wonder this sport is hurting on so many levels. Crappy organization!!!