Gran Fondos are tremendously popular in Europe, especially in regions where the closest a Cat 1 cyclists gets to a race is as a marshal. They are very competitive and much like category racing in the states, they often involve teams who regularly ride together. In America the only thing comparable to the spectacle of 5,000 riders riding on a closed course is, of course, the charity ride. From my informal poll of about eight local racers I found their was indeed much skepticism, so I emailed Lidia some hard questions that she patiently responded to.
I’ve lived in NYC for 20 years. In 1991, my mom divorced my dad, left Poland and took me with her. I was 10. I learned English in 1 year, put myself through NYU undergrad, landed an Investment Banking job, put myself through NYU grad school, and emerged with a better sense of living life following my passion. I vowed to never return to Wall Street, I was so unhappy in that industry. Uli has lived here for 3 years. He was an elite (sub-professional) cyclist in Europe for 5 years for a top sponsored team, and raced Gran Fondos in Italy, among other bike racing. When he came to NYC, he didn’t even know there was good cycling, but then headed over the GWB and saw the groups of people on bikes. Uli was a lawyer for UBS and quit his job after I got the permits lined up and the early beginnings of the logistics of GFNY under our belts. GFNY was his idea- NYC needs a long distance competitive race for everyone. We are the leaders of the GFNY team. We also have two staff in Italy working on the sponsorship side of things and several other staff members in NYC. Uli (Lidias husband) has a greencard.
Is this a ride or a race?
GFNY is a competitive event, it’s like a marathon. People can choose to run a marathon, either for charity or simply for the physical challenge of it. There are riders who are raising money on behalf of their charity as part of their participation at GFNY. But to make GFNY a charity ride is not necessary, there are already plenty of those. Gran Fondo New York is filling a need in the competitive racing circuit in New York: it is a long distance race, unlike criteriums in Central Park and non-competitive tours or charity rides.
GFNY is sanctioned by the UCI. How cool is it to see one of your teammates with the official blue UCI backdrop, a champagne bottle, podium girls and a Pinarello? http://upload.
Do you have other events planned?
Besides GFNY, we are currently not organizing another event. We are all too busy with organizing this race. But in the future months and years we’ll have more time to look forward and plan other challenging & fun events. First year logistics are the most difficult, after the first year or two, events become more "autopilot." We do offer free training rides to participants, and will have an awesome expo (pro rider visits, Giro d’Italia booth, official pre-race UCI sign-in http://farm5.static.
Are the road closed?
Yes, we have a road closure for 9W. Or exclusive road use lanes in parts where there isn’t an alternate road, like the part from Stony Point to Bear Mountain.
Why don’t you organize your event around a charity?
We are not taking a profit. We’ll actually lose money in the first year. If you know of a charity that would like to donate money to GFNY, please put us in touch. We use up our savings, because we have passion for the sport. We’ve created this event for cyclists all over the world to take part in. In the future years we believe the race will be profitable and will be able to have salaries ourselves. It will not make us rich, but it will be able to allow us to make a living. We are organizing a world-class event and having someone put this race on as a part-time job (besides their full time salary job) would be impossible. This is our job, and just as everyone else out there, we have jobs to make a living. That comes hand-in-hand with providing athletes with a first-class experience from the event communications, the partners we’ve lined up, the expo space we offer, the amenities we provide and the on-course experience for the riders.
In America most of these large rides are run for a specific charity, yours is different, if you are not going to be taking a profit why don’t you run your corporation as a non-profit and give the money to your charity of choice?
About charity rides: the organizers charge very high fees ($150-$3000) and offer about 1/4 of the services that GFNY will offer to GFNY riders. The organizers can pay themselves as high a salary as they wish, and they do not pay any taxes. As little as 10% of the revenue from those rides actually goes to the charity. GFNY (when we earn any income) will pay federal, NYS & NYC taxes.
Why is it so much?
Uli and I race year-round. We would love to offer a $20 entry fee. But at that price, GFNY would never happen. EVER. At $195, it is simply the lowest we could offer, and still there will be money leaving our own pockets to cover the expenses of an event of this scale. NYC is expensive. And the great perks we offer the riders will be unlike any other race- again, at what amateur race do you win a full Pinarello bike? Race wheels? Giro head Angelo Zomegnan called GFNY "The most interesting sports project in the world right now." We will have a live TV feed into the 2nd stage of the Giro d’Italia, what other amateur event has that? I’m even offering bike racks at the aid stations so when you want to fill up your water bottle, you don’t have to lean your bike against some pole or against your leg, I’ve never seen any race, or ride, offer that. When you see what you actually get for your entry fee, you would understand it’s a lot of value.
Gran Fondo New York: Italian style racing comes to New York CityUnlike most Gran Fondo in the US, in Italy these are very competitive races at the front with elite amateurs racing for sponsored teams. We bring the Italian racing of Gran Fondo to New York.
What’s the UCI World Cycling Tour that Gran Fondo New York is part of?
The International Cycling Union, UCI, governs all professional cycling around the world, including Cyclocross, Road, Track, Mountain Bike and more. For 2011, the UCI has reopened the Amateur racing division, a division it last ran in 1996. With the UCI World CyclingTour ("UWCT"), the world federation is also bringing back the Amateur World Championship. Gran Fondo New York is one of seven UCI-sanctioned amateur races around the world. Cyclists can race Gran Fondo New York to qualify for the UCI Amateur World Championship. The final will be held on a course that includes the classic climbs of Liege-Bastogne-Liege and is organized by the same group as the Pro Race held every spring.So it is a start to finish race?No, for several logistical and enforcement reasons the 2011 edition of Gran Fondo New York will not be a start-to-finish race. The competitive aspect are four timed climbs which will be chip timed.
But there are closed roads?
Yes, Gran Fondo New York is paying $400,000 in permits to give our cyclists road closures or moderated traffic for the entirety of the 105-mile course from NYC to Bear Mountain and back. Going out of NYC, cyclists will ride over a car-free lower level of the George Washington Bridge, along an empty 9W to Piermont, all the way to a closed Bear Mountain.
What are the prizes at GFNY?
The overall King and Queen of the Mountains win Pinarello bikes. The runners-up receive Mavic R-Sys racing wheels, Diadora racing shoes, Limar helmets and shades, Selle San Marco saddles and much, much more. Prizes go three deep overall, per age group and team. Category winners win special winners’ jerseys. All this happens with a UCI podium and backdrop, with spectacular views that will be second only to the Tour de France.
What costs so much?
Road closure and police presence.
But it’s just a 9W ride, I can ride that for free any time.
Equally, you can ride in Central Park any time for free, but the CRCA races are a great opportunity to test yourself against your teammates and friends. Gran Fondo New York further opens the competitive field to athletes from all over the world. With the new Gran Fondo New York event, local riders get to race in a UCI-sactioned event right in their own backyard.
I’m not a climber, so the timed climbs format is bad for me.New York is not in the Alps, Pyrenees or the Rockies. The timed climbs that comprise Gran Fondo New York are short and manageable. A cyclists does not have to be one of the Schleck brothers to successfully ascend them. What’s more, they are in your backyard, and if you haven’t ridden Bear Mountain, Buckberg or Little Tor, you still have 50 days to ride them before the gun goes off on May 8.
Who is organizing Gran Fondo New York?
We are local athletes who left their professional jobs to fill a hole in the competitive offering to cyclists in NYC. There are short course criteriums and long distance tours. Gran Fondo New York is a long distance challenge with racing components. We grew up in NYC, but also did stints in Europe racing for teams there as Elite racers.
Are there team tactics?There is a team category at Gran Fondo New York, the fastest 4 teammates win the team category. You can work together during the non-timed portions of the race to stay in a good position on the course and have solid competitors around you on the climbs.Why did you create Gran Fondo New York?
Cycling is heading in the same direction as running and triathlon. The cost to pro race sponsors is becoming increasingly unbearable, and mass participation events offer more exposure and interaction with a brand to cycling enthusiasts. Experts like Giro d’Italia boss Angelo Zomegnan expect cycling races in the future to be mass participatory events with pros heading the field. While the pros may not like the idea (and being purists ourselves, we prefer the way it is), ultimately the sport has to follow where the money is to survive.
With thousands of participants, how many awards do you offer?
Gran Fondo New York has over $100,000 worth of prizes. It’s more likely that you will receive a competition or raffle prize than go home empty-handed.Do I need a USA Cycling license to ride Gran Fondo New York?
Each cyclist at Gran Fondo New York is covered by USA Cycling insurance, which is included in the entry fee. Riders who qualify for and accept their spot to the UCI Amateur World Championship, are required to obtain a USA Cycling license to ride in Belgium in September.
I can see the price turning some people off, but we should try and support all cycling events. By the mile its much cheaper than an AVD race.
it is expensive, but then again so is spending a night upstate to race battenkill.
Thanks for the info, looks fun. I will now consider it.
It is a unique event, and when factoring other costs/logistics, the entry fee is on par with what you would spend with any other “out of town” race.
Gran Fondo’s in Europe are races at the very front, absolutely. And you can ride at your own pace too to enjoy the spectacle. Whatever works for you and your goals.
I have coached a Sunday ride 3 weeks ago and the riders were fit, enthusiastic, and that was for 110km in pouring rain!!! This Sunday, I will lead a training ride from Strictly Bikes, 8am.
Contact either Uli/Lidia for more details.
Cheers!
Dave
I’m really thankful that you have made this all possible.
However, it sounds like an exaggerated bike tour with hill climb races included. That’s not a race, especially not for $200. Point to point would get more racers interested. That’s like a whole month’s racing budget for a Fred riddled Tour of Five Counties with hill climb time trials. There is no idea how to pace yourself, no “leader” to match wheels with..?
is that for $200, they can do the same ride with a safe group of teammates and traininer partners for free and then have $200 left over for a nice dinner and some needed bike parts (tires etc). The big difference I see between NYC Grandfondo and those in Europe is that the latter events are in Europe. You are “racing” or touring Lake Como or the alps or the Dolomites and vineyards. Not 9W up to Bear Mtn. The majority of locals do that ride so very often its total boredom for them and they would rather spend the money on a true race in a different venue. I dont doubt it will be a good event with lots of rec riders and tourists but at the same time, its no suprise that local racers have very little interest.
Bring the Grand Fondo up to the Catskills (New Paltz to Windham or hunter) and you will have a much different turnout I suspect. Then again, you could do the Tour of Catskills and race 3 days for half the price, closed roads and a safer group. GFs work in Europe because they do not have the amatuer racing we have. Its UCI Kermesse circuits or the big time.
“Gran Fondo New York is paying $400,000 in permits”
These people are going to lose a sh*tload of money.
sucks to be them.
I did the Levi G FOndo last year in Santa Rosa. it had the best support i have ever seen. well worth the money. And oh yeah it is a full on race. no joke Ben King, Phinney, and Levi plus a bunch of BMC guys drilling it for miles.
I those wealthy folks who like to ride on NYCC rides or ride with mirrors on helmets may enjoy this. However, I am not certain the local racers would.
1) Price – Regardless of what you do with the course(twist it, add more turns), even closing a portion of 9W, it is still the same old 9W/Bear Mountain that we ride/train.
To pay $195 is a lot of money
2) Jersey – All participants must wear the Granfondo jersey. Would you want to ride around looking like the same? I sense that most racers wear their own team kits with pride(and ego)
3) I have done some Granfondos in Europe. It’s fun, but part of the fun comes from riding in a different country/city, new course, some really fast(ex-pros) racers.
The NYC Granfondo may be more attractive to NON-NY racers?
I can see how this can be fun and reasonable if I lived in other states or other countries.
4) How many Pinarello’s and Carbon wheels are they offering as prizes? I imagine, just one? If they are expecting 1,000s of people to participate, then we would have a better chance of winning a Caad10 or Williams Wheels racing in Floyd Bennett.
5) The Granfondo in Europe had the “pro”s go first and that really became a race. I am sure there will be some “racers” interested participating in the event, but would they want to mass start with men/women who never raced before, who probably doesn’t know how to hold a line or ride in a pack? Perhaps the organizers should/could have worked local NYC elite teams(team with Cat1/2s?) and/or pro-teams(lower tier) and have that field go out first(wearing their own kits) and then let the mass(the rich guys with mirrors)later? Offer those racing license holders a slightly less entry fee(Say $100?). That would have really created a colorful, racing feel to the event.
Having said all this, I wish them great success and safe event. No, this is not a race.
y’all a bunch of whiners. it’ll be great for the town: attract tons & tons of out of towners, spending money, and….then the nypd will have a field day issuing tickets for running red lights! tah-dah!
Perfectly said! Wear my kit,$100 feea and then i think you’ll see all of CRCA killing it there!
Agreed. 9W is mind-numbing to begin with so why would any of us be expected to pay $200 to ride it with support. Are they going through Nyack and stopping at the Spoon? If so, I can’t imagine those surly baristas will take kindly to 1,000 dudes pooping in their already-gross toilet. That place is going to stink of hammer gel farts for days.
what fondos in Europe have you done. sounds like you do not know what you are talkign about.
people spend big money on GSMR and BattenKil and trips to AZ and the like 200 bucks is a deal.
if it was a real race i would like it better but the gfondos are cool
Thanks much for your comments. I try to reply to as many as possible.
>>>However, it sounds like an exaggerated bike tour with hill climb races included. That’s not a race, especially not for $200. Point to point would get more racers interested.
If you race the climbs all out, you’ll be quite done after completing the 107 mile course. For sure it’s different than circling CP or FBF but I’d say you’ll get your fix.
Yes, point-to-point would be great but it will take a few years until we can pull this off. Gotta start somewhere. A lot of European GFs relegate to only timing the climbs after horrific crashes. I’ve personally witnessed a 35 year old dad die at La Marmotte, descending from Glandon.
>>>is that for $200, they can do the same ride with a safe group of teammates and traininer partners for free and then have $200 left over for a nice dinner and some needed bike parts (tires etc).
You can ride CP or FBF for free as well.
>>>Bring the Grand Fondo up to the Catskills (New Paltz to Windham or hunter) and you will have a much different turnout I suspect.
I heard there are plans for that and I hope it is happening. The cost will be higher for NYers if you factor travel in. It may be appealing for racers but few others and no one from abroad or even outer state. GFNY will be fun with 35+ countries represented. We spoke to a few Italians this weekend who are coming over. They’re fit.
>>>1) Price – Regardless of what you do with the course(twist it, add more turns), even closing a portion of 9W, it is still the same old 9W/Bear Mountain that we ride/train.
As above. So is CP or FBF. Apples and oranges.
>>>2) Jersey – All participants must wear the Granfondo jersey. Would you want to ride around looking like the same? I sense that most racers wear their own team kits with pride(and ego)
It’s a necessary deal with the officials to determine who’s part of the race. No one crosses GWB without the jerseys. That said, we give exemptions for racers who have to race for their club and want to qualify for worlds.
>>>3) I have done some Granfondos in Europe. It’s fun, but part of the fun comes from riding in a different country/city, new course, some really fast(ex-pros) racers.
We can’t build you a new course but we will bring Gilberto Simoni, Claudio Chiappucci, potentially Jens Voigt and others.
>>>The NYC Granfondo may be more attractive to NON-NY racers?
For some reasons it definitely will be. But you don’t have to pay for accom and have a world class event right outside your door.
>>>4) How many Pinarello’s and Carbon wheels are they offering as prizes?
If you are a racer, you’ll have an honest shot on good prizes. Beyond Pinas and Mavic wheels, there are many more prizes.
>>>5) The Granfondo in Europe had the “pro”s go first and that really became a race.
We will have a Lista Rossa start for people who are worthy to start at the front even though it doesn’t matter. But we know you guys like it (I do, too ;)).
>>>Perhaps the organizers should/could have worked local NYC elite teams(team with Cat1/2s?) and/or pro-teams(lower tier) and have that field go out first(wearing their own kits) and then let the mass(the rich guys with mirrors)later?
see above
>>>Offer those racing license holders a slightly less entry fee(Say $100?). That would have really created a colorful, racing feel to the event.
What would justify such a discount? You would have to look at it being sponsored by us because $200 in year one doesn’t even cover the costs. So why would we sponsor you? What added benefit do we have from your participation? But let me rephrase it: how about getting a sponsor who pays your entry fee?
Thanks again for all your questions in general and any support in particular. Please keep the comments coming!
Uli
uli@granfondony.com
the stretch of road in garnerville between central highway and main street on 202 south has no shoulder, is uphill where cars regularly go 55 and the route goes left in about 300 yards. deadly stupid.
The more I read and try to learn about this ‘competitive event’ the more confused I get.
Since only the three hills are timed, why waste the energy on the portions that are not timed? Are you supposed to cruise for 90 or so miles and then hammer it up the hills? Better yet, why don’t I just get in my car, drive to one of the timed hills, climb it, and then drive to the next?
I understand what you’re trying to do; I think any cycling event is great for the city (or maybe not, since every driver will be furious with the road closures and blame us cyclists) but it’s just simply not going to attract us local racers. Maybe triathletes? I agree with the comment of binging it upstate to the catskills, if there wasn’t a race up that way already I’d probably do this one. Plus I cant imagine the fees being that high up there for road closures.
If the whole event was timed then I’d also probably do it (and the ability to wear your own jersey. Slashing the required jersey would lower the price no?)
I’m definitely more interested now. But the mass start thing worries me. If they let licensed racers to the front, maybe coordinate with CRCA, then I’d be much more interested. But getting knocked clear off the GWB by 1,000 swerving freds with rear view mirrors scares me.
GEL FARTS!
Might not do it, but pretty stoked it is happening. Then again, might just do it for the spectacle of it all.
More to the point anything that brings attention to cycling and gets more people aware of the sport is a net positive. Especially right about now when we seem to be under some nonsensical attack for riding our bikes.
And for whatever its worth, the organizers passion for it is admirable.
I think this sounds unusual and fun (but I don’t ride 9w much). Now I just have to figure out how to weasel a sponsorship out of someone…
I sense another t-shirt sale from schmalz is coming.
Nope, no sale planned, but Campmor has some for sale.
“If they let licensed racers to the front, maybe coordinate with CRCA, then I’d be much more interested.”
no problem, we can do that
it would be cool to turn it into a real race, eventually. In Cape Town they have the Tour of the Argus, ~110KM Pros go first, then elite amateurs, then everyone else. Robbie Hunter (SA local) won it a couple of years ago.
getting to the front of the Santa rosa g fondo was easy. i was next to levi and ben king no one cared. 6000 riders were there and no one was trying to get up front, i was suprized. also it had a slow roll out which i also did not expect.
but when the heat turned up it was down to 100 guys in less than 5 miles from the start . then less than 50 at about mile 10 with only a 1 k climb.
On the web site, there’s a photo of the start of some gran fondo and it’s raining. I don’t want to do this ride in the rain. When will registration close? Will it be within a 10-day weather foercast period so at least we can have some idea of what the conditions might be. I’m happy to eat $40 to skip a rainy race, but $200 does make me pause.
Potential clusterfuck on the GWB path is the weak link..
and stfu
1. This is a for profit venture. Half the goal is to pull a salary off of receipts. The other half is to blow it up big enough to sell. So, as much as they may love the sport, they are after a payout. Sporting events are big business. Eyes wide open everyone.
2. Part of the entry fee goes to reimburse the promoters for the ‘privilege’ of being associated with the UCI and even more goes to reimburse the promoters for paying to be a qualifying event.
4. It’s another scheme for the UCI to ‘monetize’ recreational riders. It doesn’t grow the sport. It shrinks it. Entry fees alone are a perfect example.
5. This isn’t racing.
Cycling may be the new golf. I need to start my own Grand Fundo of Brooklyn at twice the price and pretentiousness. I’ll be rich!!!
“Potential clusterfuck on the GWB path is the weak link..”
We would never, ever have our riders go out across the GWB on the bike path. Getting a full road closure on the bridge was critical for us to stage the event and the first thing we secured.
“I don’t want to do this ride in the rain.”
We ordered sunshine. I even found a discount code!
“I need to start my own Grand Fundo of Brooklyn at twice the price and pretentiousness. I’ll be rich!!!”
Good luck.
“the stretch of road in garnerville between central highway and main street on 202 south has no shoulder, is uphill where cars regularly go 55 and the route goes left in about 300 yards. deadly stupid.”
We have three police officers at that intersection.
I have some friends that don’t race that registered, so I immediately thought, “This isn’t a race. I ride 9W all the time. Why on earth should I waste my time?”
Now after having read the post and Uli’s responses above, I’m kind of digging this. It looks like it’ll be great fun and if you can manage to get to the front, seems like you will get all you can handle.
Yeah, it’s $200, and that’s a bit steep, but you’re really only talking the difference between what you would pay for a stage race or a Battenkill type race and this event. Looks like you also get a Jersey and support. Just eat and drink as much as you can for your 200 bills.
As much as I would like, just too busy to go to Arizona or Cali to spend a week away from the family indulging in my hobby.
But this, this I can do. I’m definitely considering it.
$200 entry fee is hefty and the fact that you have to wear their jersey – most serious riders don’t care for any more comemorative jerseys…However, as many said, any cycling event in NYC area is great and the organizer seems enthusiastic. Trying to find ways to support…How can we get racers(well, those reading this site are racers) to participate?
1) Working with CRCA and other teams to let the racers go our first — That’ll do def help some 5% more racers to consider!
2) How about having every rider pin/stick on something (say 8 x 6?) banner on the front and the back of their jerseys to identify the participants? This would allow people to wear their own jerseys should they choose to.
3) Finally, perhaps offer some discounts to NYC locals? or those with racing license? In exchange, those don’t get to get a Granfondo jersey(save some $?)
Just some thoughts..
Will Grand Fondo be provide pot beldge?
>>>1) Working with CRCA and other teams to let the racers go our first — That’ll do def help some 5% more racers to consider!
Absolutely no problem. I’ve said it before and it was always the plan. Personally, I don’t think it will make a difference and anyone who races would be in the front quickly enough if he only wanted. That said, I, personally dig “lista rossa” start positions as well and just this last weekend enjoyed it at Gran Fondo Davide Cassani in Faenza.
I guarantee you though that we’ll get the “but he’s only Cat4 and I’m a Cat2 so he has no right to be here” stuff. I think you should focus on the Italian dilettanti that are coming over and team up to keep the prizes in town.
>>>2) How about having every rider pin/stick on something (say 8 x 6?) banner on the front and the back of their jerseys to identify the participants? This would allow people to wear their own jerseys should they choose to.
Unfortunately not an option. I’ve said it before though: if you are a licenced racer and plan to represent your club at UCI Amateur Worlds, you can get an exemption.
>>>3) Finally, perhaps offer some discounts to NYC locals? or those with racing license? In exchange, those don’t get to get a Granfondo jersey(save some $?)
You’d be financially better off selling your jersey on ebay to a Euro tourist. Instead of looking for a sponsorship from us, try to get a personal sponsor. Feel free to plaster sth on the jersey. Sell you bib space!
“Will Grand Fondo be provide pot beldge?”
Neither that (whatever that is), nor pot belge but maybe some Coca Cola or even Coffee. Maybe.
beldge/belge depends on where you are from in Belgium (Wallonia/Flanders).
I guess I’ll have to bring my own.
“beldge/belge depends on where you are from in Belgium (Wallonia/Flanders).”
Got it, thanks. Erwin Verwecken is heading the UCI World Cycling Tour adventure. He should teach me those things.
Good to know about the bridge closure – thanks for clarifying.
I race and I’m doing it. WTF, if you think its all rec riders then don’t ya all have a shoe in for the top prizes. This is an amazing event happening in our backyard. Week in and week out many spend the bucks to ‘ride’ a park race.Remember there are more losers at a park race than winners. Everybody needs to get over themselves-lame. Good Luck Uli and I hope the event turns out as you’ve envisioned. Any idea how many are registered so far?
May be you “ride park races” but many other racers do travel to other races whether a cat 1 or cat 5. May be you should ride the Granfodo, a change of scenes for you for sure.
Um, yeah, Uli, I got one problem. The Grand Fondo is on Mother’s Day. You sure you weren’t in charge of organizing the Spring Bear Mountain race? LOL
Just kidding, but seriously, I would love to “race” the Fondo, but for all the time I spend out on my bike during the year, the moms come first on that day.
Road closures and a packed NYC event calendar lead to choose May 8th.
I reckon to call it Mother’s Week. When the weekend comes around, the ladies in the house are happy you’re finally leaving. And this being a Gran Fondo: a true Italian loves “La Mamma” 24/7. Problem solved.
Are bikes with aerobars allowed?
Call it a Momfondo and you’re good.
can i wear my rock & republic team kit?
Rock’s not dead.
Great article. I am signing up tomorrow.
Despite it’s $200 price tag, I don’t think price is actually the problem here. Add $50-70 (say the cost of a jersey) to Dieter Drake’s $85-105 entry fees for Battenkill and then the gap is not that wide.
The bigger problem to me is that this is being held up as a qualifier for UCI Amateur Worlds. With only a few timed climbs determining places and prizes, it becomes an event where watts/kg is pretty much all that matters. Noodle for 90 miles, hit it hard for the 4-8 minute climbs that dot the route from here to there and bam, those are the “winners?” Those are the people we want representing the US in Belgium in an actual road race?
(aside: I do understand that previously Master’s World’s had no qualifiers whatsoever, so maybe my post is sort of moot, in a “better than nothing” kind of way, but still…)
I’m not saying you won’t have a good ride, or a great time, or come away with some nice swag at the end of a long tiring day in the saddle. All of that will probably happen. It might be your favorite day on the bike all year. But Grand Fondo NYC is not racing. No way, no how. And to hold it up as a qualifier for an actual race, is just weird.
A few years back, I spent the better part of a road racing season slogging it out in Belgian Kermesses and so I believe I have at least a fair understanding of what racing in Belgium is like. And I can guarantee you that if I, for example, decide to do this Grand Fondo, there will be triathletes and all manner of less experienced road racers who will crush me on the climbs, but could not last 15 minutes in a Belgian Kermesse.
I mean, even if the organizer could somehow get all the “racers” to the start of the timed portions at the same time, and let them slog it out “racer style,” the “winner” of that climb, at the end of the day, may not actually be the rider with the fastest elapsed time. Some other rider could come along 20 minutes later and power up the climb at high steady state effort without the drama of attacks and counters and actually finish the climb quicker. Is that racing? Well, I guess in a manner of speaking yes, but not really. Will that rider have success in an actual road race situation when he gets to Belgium?
I cahnt vait to git me some Peerkins Drive climbs, ya!
Your other problem is that you look like JP.
It’s on Mother’s Day? I’m out.
Were you ever in?
if it wss i race from point to ponit I twold do it, its not race and so i can ride bear anytime i want for free!
Lame.
Yeah, I was.
I’m glad you ask those questions because there is (understandably) still a lot of confusion about the new UCI Amateur World Champs out there.
>>Those are the people we want representing the US in Belgium in an actual road race?
You have to consider that a full 10% of each age group qualifies. At large events like GFNY that is A LOT of people. And if anyone of those 10% does not want to do the final, the next 10% will be asked. IOW: qualifying will be very achievable.
>>>(aside: I do understand that previously Master’s World’s had no qualifiers whatsoever, so maybe my post is sort of moot, in a “better than nothing” kind of way, but still…)
I’m trying to say this without offending anyone in particular and I’m sure there were a lot of strong racers but: the Austrian “Worlds” was a pathetic joke.
>>>there will be triathletes and all manner of less experienced road racers who will crush me on the climbs, but could not last 15 minutes in a Belgian Kermesse.
Thanks for bringing up the cobbles. That gives me the chance to explain the final a little better.
THE FINAL IS NOT ON COBBLES. Instead, the it will be held on parts of the Liege-Bastogne-Liege course and organized by the group that also organizes the pro race. And given it will be Gran Fondo style – read “mass participation” – and the climbing very selective, team tactics will be almost inexistent.
I know criterium racers that get their asses kicked by triathletes as soon as there’s an incline.
>>>Will that rider have success in an actual road race situation when he gets to Belgium?
Anyone who can climb fast on the GFNY climbs is better prepared for the climbs at the final than someone who’s a specialized criterium racer. That said, if you’re fit to rock a crit, you’ll qualify for Worlds.
….you answered any of his questions.
Speaking of cobbles, I hear the bottom of the hill at Prospect Park is resembling a shit-strewn street in Flanders, though, it ain’t the Mur de Huy. D
Best response of them all: “I’m trying to say this without offending anyone in particular and I’m sure there were a lot of strong racers but: the Austrian “Worlds” was a pathetic joke.”
Yeah! HTFU you Mozart-listening pansies! Throw a couple of shrimps on the bar-b!
I’d hate to read your response when your ARE trying to offend someone.
Uli sounds sassy. I bet she’s hot. Do you like to party?
LOL, hate to break it to you but I’m male.
I wish it was a point to point race paying 20 deep, then i would do it! i raced GF in Italy and they race from start to finish. This one you do nothing till you hit the 4 climbs which mske no sence what so ever then ride receational ride home. boring.
“I wish it was a point to point race paying 20 deep, then i would do it! i raced GF in Italy and they race from start to finish.”
Which ones did you do? Times are changing in Italy. More and more GF are doing the climb only format (La Pinarello, La Marmotte in France). If you understand Italian, I can send you a few articles from CT and La Biciletta.
I really do like to race start to finish as well but a GF with more than 500 people will never be fair because you already lost if you’re not lining up at the front. I had bib 2 at GF Davide Cassani on Sunday but didn’t race it cause I needed pics and video. There where people 2 mins. down still trying to make it to the front going at 30+ mph on a slight incline. They of course never made it and were toast when the 7k, up to 19% steep climb began at k15, a mere 130k from the finish. Hence, timed climbs are the obvious solution.
That said, we have bigger plans for the future. We will put up a start-to-finish race at the front of the peloton. And this peloton will also include pros very soon. Sponsors are leaving pro cycling and it will get more and more difficult for organizers to pay for the permits. Bring in GF and you have a platform where the fans are riders themselves. Look at marathon and triathlon. That’s the future. Do I like that? Let’s say that as an old schooler I prefer traditional racing. It’s what I was brought up on. But during my years as a racer I saw more and more exciting road races disappear and we were left with circumnavigating village churches and empty industrial areas on a Sunday.
No thanks.
Their backing of these Gran Fondos is giving me greater appreciation for Dieter’s contempt for the UCI.
Sign me up for the running of the Schmalzfondo.
You guys are missing the point…the NYC race community isn’t the target market. It’s the cycling enthusiast that travels with their bike and usually goes with a touring company to “epic” destinations. This way they can come to NYC stay for a week and have an experience they can take back and talk about. The $200 is just a small portion of what they will spend while they are here (good for us).
The schmalzfondo will be tomorrow at noon on the Saddle River Bike path, cost is merely $300.
jane fondo in nam
Easy one,just put the elite guys first etc…
Easy one,just put the elite guys first etc…
also someone says you have to wear your jersey, is this true?
Grand old fonda~
“also someone says you have to wear your jersey, is this true?”
Yes, it’s a deal with the authorities. No one crosses the bridge without the GFNY jersey. There are GF in Italy where this is done as well (e.g. Giordana (ex Pantani) or Coppi). Those include racers that are actually getting paid to ride.
That said, if you need to represent your club in a bid to go to UCI Amateur Worlds because this club pays you, we can make an exemption.
i won’t be doing it, because i barely have enough time to do park races at the crack of dawn, but if I did have that kind of free time I would be all over it. if you race and you’re a strong climber it doesn’t sound all that hard, and the chance to qualify to race in europe, even just once, is pretty cool.
“It’s the cycling enthusiast that travels with their bike and usually goes with a touring company to “epic” destinations. ”
Lol so is that who is going to be representing us at the worlds too?
I’m for the “ride in a car to hill-do hill- drive to next hill!” whose with me? Maybe we can rent a bus.
How about the reverse start list, start with the never riden more than 10 miles group, followed by the kids who think they can do it, then the mom’s chasing the kids, rich guys with the rear view mirrors and the recumbant’s, weekend warriors, train more than 10 hours a week guys and gals, racers (cat 5/4), then the 3’s followed by the 1,2’s then the Pro’s upper tier last. This way the Pro’s are challenged more and don’t end up riding alone, I mean they want to promote cycling right and what better way than to have the Pro’s see and meet the whole spectrum of cyclist, and if they’re really that good they can still contest for the win.
No, instead cycling is to be promoted by putting the smack down on anything less than a Pro by making them even more handicapped at a win by putting them way after anyone who already has a major advantage.
Yea, its all about promoting cycling I get it… or does the local Pro really want the GFNY as a major accomplishment in their career? How many GF’s did Eddy Merckx win?
Its another event that promotes cycling. Its your choice whether you participate, unless its critical for you to train on 9W that day.
Just my opinons and each to his own: GFs are not races. No matter how many times you mentioned people being paid to do them. I race in belgium and I have done a few GFs at the end of a block of training just to have a laugh. The amateur world thing is total rubbish in its current format. Italians love GFs but not everything they love is good. Get over your euro angst. Dont ever use a Kermesse as a basline unless you have rideen a few. They are not criteriums and anybody that can do well in a kermesse is good. Dont give me that I once knew a Triathlete rubbish. Racing requires skill, tactics and power. GFs do not. THe rvv sportif is coming up and its a great day for everyone to have a go on the course but its not a race and its a total shit fest. Its a good day to have a bit of laugh with some friends who dont race and want to experience a mass start event. Ditto GF.
So do all these stupid useless bike lanes..
There are a 125 races a year within riding distance from NYC…how much promotion is needed?
a lot more. never enough.
“Yea, its all about promoting cycling I get it… or does the local Pro really want the GFNY as a major accomplishment in their career? How many GF’s did Eddy Merckx win?”
How much did Eddy get offered to race a GF? You have to look forward, not back.
Though it’s clearly not a race, this looks like a fun event. The participation model is a good way to bring people into the sport of cycling. It’s also pretty darn good for local economies.
The challenge with comparing it to other, participation-based sports like running and tri, however, has to to with simple physics; with no measurable drafting in either of those sports in general it’s usually the fastest person that wins. In cycling it’s more often the smartest. Very (very) rarely does a person emerge from the middle of the pack in a 10k or marathon to win. This defines road bicycle racing, however.
Dieter Drake
Race Director
Tour of the Battenkill
If this is what one needs to do to qualify for master worlds the value of a rainbow jersey has clearly taken a nose dive.
We have established that this GF is not a race(at least the way our local racers see it)
And it is perhaps not quite like the GranFondo’s in Europe or even CALI(no big names show..YET).
However, it is a CYCLING event which looks to be a promising and exciting. Let’s not get caught up with UCI blah blah…as you know 99.99% of us will not make it to UCI, we wish?, but we race bc we like bikes the culture associated with it. So, if you are not planning to race that day(in or out of the park) and if you feel good about spending $200 towards a cycling event(It’s not a charity thing, as we can see by the list of sponsors and I suspect the support crew etc will be very “pro”, right Uli?) why don’t we consider doing it? Let’s support this event.
Yes, it will be good for NYC economy, all those out of town folks will drop dollars to local bike shops and perhaps with all the participants training in CP will shed some light to those who do not think cycling is good for NYC.
Promoting bike racing and cycling are slightly different…GF can be one of those events that sit right in the middle!
Uli to Mengoni
Kickin in the front pack, sitting in the back pack, which place do I takeeeeeee
It’s Friday.
I too was like most of the snobby racers turning their nose up at the event. Why would I pay $200 to ride on the very same roads I ride for free all the time. Uli has done a good job answering all the questions and concerns brought up by all the whiny racers and racer wannabes. If this turns out like the GF in Europe, you can expect racing to happen right from the start and to continue to the very end. Smart riders will catch a fast pack and save their reserves for the timed sections. Not much different than racing in NYC where the sprinters sit in and then unleash their sprint at the end. I haven’t signed up, but I might consider it. $200 is still quite a bit of money to spend for a “race”, but it is definitely cheaper, on a per/mile basis, than many racers here in NYC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GMu7NZXbag
I’d hit it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHvdseSRFNw&feature=related
What about those of us not doing it but doing our usual training on the same route?
Best Made Grand Fundo of Manhattan, $999 for three hills!
>>>And it is perhaps not quite like the GranFondo’s in Europe or even CALI(no big names show..YET).
If you mean (former) pros by ‘big names’ then we do have Gilberto Simoni and Claudio Chiappucci committed as well as riders from HTC, Leopard, Sky and Movistar likely coming (those who are on their way from Europe to ToC).
>>>as you know 99.99% of us will not make it to UCI, we wish?, but we race bc we like bikes the culture associated with it.
Well, 10% of every AG actually will which makes possibly 50% of anyone here.
>>> I suspect the support crew etc will be very “pro”, right Uli?) why don’t we consider doing it? Let’s support this event.
Mavic will be there with yellow cars and motor bikes. Many local bike shops will be out there as well. And so will be a motorcycle crew from the police.
“Uli to Mengoni”
Hook me up.
>>>”I race in belgium and I have done a few GFs at the end of a block of training just to have a laugh.”
So which GF have you actually done in Italy? I’ve raced many and also Elite Amateur races in Switzerland. The latter were easier.
>>> Racing requires skill, tactics and power.
That is your definition of “racing”.
>>>”The challenge with comparing it to other, participation-based sports like running and tri, however, has to to with simple physics; with no measurable drafting in either of those sports in general it’s usually the fastest person that wins. In cycling it’s more often the smartest. Very (very) rarely does a person emerge from the middle of the pack in a 10k or marathon to win. This defines road bicycle racing, however.”
Thanks for chiming in, Dieter. What you say is true for “road bicycle racing” in its most widespread form. But put these same racers on a tough GF course and all you will see is a survival of the fittest, far away from any team tactics.
Like it or not, IMHO the future of road cycling will be the same as marathon or triathlon. I clearly don’t have to tell you about hurdles in putting up a pro race. But please imaging the following: a pro race start at the front of a GF with, say, a 2 min. head start. Would the pros like that? No, because pro racing usually starts with a warm up and not full on drilling it just to stay away from amateurs.
But would they still come if you pay them to do it? Absolutely.
Uli makes a good point – racers like hard bicycle races and this would appear to bridge the gap between the GF-style events and true races. If the entire course were uphill, then the gap between the two is non-existent and approaches the running and tri models. The problem is, though, that designing and hosting difficult road cycling courses is increasingly cost-prohibitive and I fear that if the prediction is true that road racing goes in the GF direction (I am not convinced), then all but a select few road races will have the means to survive. Closing roads is very expensive, especially on extended, point to point courses like GF courses typically are.
People like to compete. The GF-model waters this down and people will quickly discover that and shift focus back to category and age-group racing where they can find it: Prospect Park, FB Field, CP, track racing, for example. As long as those places are available for races, races will happen.
That said, Grand Fondo style events clearly have the greatest growth potential. I just don’t buy it that Pros are ever going to treat it more than what it is – an appearance – and so on (in diminishing proportions from Pro to Cat 5 to Citizen).
The GF’s will do to racing what bike lanes have done to riding.
So you say the Austrian championships were weak? Check out this roster of results, bro:
http://tinyurl.com/6yrg4pt
or do uli’s comments become more smug by the hour? it’s gone from explaining the fun of the gran fondo NY to a dogmatic dissertation on the inevitable, kafka-esque transformation of bike racing into a bland stew of bike fondo-ing (that just sounds so wrong).
>>>Like it or not, IMHO the future of road cycling will be the same as marathon or triathlon.
Shut the front door! As if the bike handling skills in Cat. 4/5 races weren’t bad enough already. Well, from Uli’s lips to god’s ears. I’ll start shopping for my singlets and nipple cream now!
>>>No one crosses the bridge without the GFNY jersey.
or you sleep with the fishes! i’d like to see how this one is going to work..
Uli, I heard that you can make one to five thousand a day racing Grand Fondos. Can you comment on that?
re: relative cost of park races vs GFNY
Spring Series 1/2/3 race in prospect park, $30, 14 laps 47 miles = 64 cents/mile. 3/4 race, 10 laps 34 miles = 88 cents/mile.
GFNY $200/107mi = $1.87/mi.
but, as Uli says, apples and oranges.
Mother’s Day drivers on 9W are going to be supremely pissed and we will suffer their wrath for the rest of the year as a result. Great idea, genius.
1.87 mile but you forgot to add in the value of not having to pay for any food or drink along the way plus full support. That has to be worth at least 25cents extra a mile.
My question to the NYC bike crowd and particularly team Rapha, I am really considering buying a rapha country jersey (I am getting tired of all the busy pro as shit team jerseys out there and dont race much these days). Putting aside the fact the cost (Rapha sells a $20plus cotton hanky chief), I simply am not sure if I can pull off the obligatory ironic mustache (SP?) that one must grow in order to wear and be all that is Rapha. Thanks!
Now back to this expensive GFNY…
Hell hath no fury like a mom stuck in bike-related traffic on the GWB while stuffed in a ’93 Chrysler minivan packed with a couple of screaming kids, both of whom appeared not long ago despite having the ol’ tubes tied back in ’02…
Since this is such a great NYC cycling event how much of it is actually in New York city?
Seems like only the part that’s going to snarl mother’s day traffic. Closing the GWB on a Sunday?
>>>Shut the front door! As if the bike handling skills in Cat. 4/5 races weren’t bad enough already. Well, from Uli’s lips to god’s ears. I’ll start shopping for my singlets and nipple cream now!
People will learn. In Italy where GF have been around for 20+ years now, people’s handling skills are good. You know, given the choice, I would put up a Cat3-5 race with 150 people for $5 on an exciting 120 mile loop, starting at Battery Park and finishing on Times Square with full road closure.
Until that happens, let’s work on the GF extension. It’s also a test for our partner Giro d’Italia. They’re coming rather sooner than later once people here get it.
>>>Uli, I heard that you can make one to five thousand a day racing Grand Fondos. Can you comment on that?
I don’t know the actual numbers because I am and was way to slow to be even close to it but there are guys in Italy who race GF professionally or semi professionally.
I’d like to encourage everyone to meet us at Paragon on Monday, March 28, 6.30pm for a Q&A. Please RSVP here:http://gfnyinfosession-328.eventbrite.com/
You can ask any question around GFNY in general but I think UCI World Champs qualification should be the most interesting for many of you.
Thanks!
Uli is getting feisty…
Uli, I heard that you can make one to five thousand a day racing Grand Fondos. Can you comment on that?
Check it out with Joe Papp and ask him what he was getting for GF’s with Whistlestop.
One of the reasons you get fast guys at GF’s in Europe is the absence of doping controls – lot’s of doped up, washed out, has-beens or never weres in addition to the odd marquee rider being paid an appearance fee or doing a friend a favour.
Cant remember but was that book based on a real race or a GF in France?
Uli – will there be a fiesta?
Free showing of Breaking Away at the after party? Isn’t this “authentic Italian cycling experience” thing getting old?
Thanks for contributing to cycling, it’s always good to see an new event on the horizon. I wish you the best of success.
With that said, the concept sucks! What really bothers me is your somewhat smug ‘like it or not’ attitude regarding the future of bike races. You don’t tell us what racing is, “The Emperor Has No Clothes.” You have forgotten the cardinal rule in business:
The customer is always right! Please don’t call it a race when it truly isn’t.
>>>What really bothers me is your somewhat smug ‘like it or not’ attitude regarding the future of bike races.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again: I would prefer to keep seeing great, traditional road races. It just doesn’t seem to be going in that direction. With more and more road traffic it’s just getting harder and harder to get closures to put up an exciting race. And more and more long established races are dying in Europe (I don’t know enough about here but exciting road courses seem sparse anyway).
You need sponsors to pay for a race but they don’t care about a beautiful course on the countryside that no one is watching. And with those countryside courses it seems that it’s more important that John Doe can get out of his driveway any time he desires.
Personally, I’m just not happy with industrial area 1k-loops. I don’t dig that. GF, to me, seems to be a way around it. If you establish a proper GF, you can get a race at the front of the field plus thousands others and with them sponsors to pay for it.
But maybe we’re heading towards the new golden era of road racing and are just in a tough spot right now. With GF we try to fill the gap that is getting bigger and bigger.
I’m a purist like the next person but I think we need to stay open minded and take our heads out of the sand. Look at what David puts up with his Red Hook Crit. To say I’m not a fan of hipsters would be putting it mildly. But it’s cycling and it’s racing. And it’s fun.
uli, i will add to the well dones for putting the event together and also for monitoring these comments and taking the crap you are taking and giving pretty great responses to comments. you are promoting a sport i love and doing it on a pretty large scale. whether or not i choose to do it has nothing to do with any of the issues brought up here or what i am about to bring up.
what gets to me is you and your wife saying you won’t make any money off this. i can understand people being altruistic for natural disasters, etc, but perhaps i am a bit too jaded to really believe and understand someone putting themselves through the hell that must be involved in organizing this for absolutely no profit. having pretty publicly stated you won’t make money for this, would you open your books fully to the public and perhaps an independent auditor? otherwise, i just don’t buy it. don’t get me wrong, i would hope and expect that you ARE making money off this. its not a charity ride and you should get paid for your efforts. otherwise i think you are absolutely insane. just don’t give me the “i quit my job to do this and won’t make any money off it at all” story, because if thats the case i have a nice warm white coat over here for you with some fun straps…and maybe a bridge to sell you as well.
“just don’t give me the “i quit my job to do this and won’t make any money off it at all” story, because if thats the case i have a nice warm white coat over here for you with some fun straps…and maybe a bridge to sell you as well.”
🙂 We were only talking about year one but of course we hope to land sponsorship in year 2 that pays the bills (and just that) before we run out of savings. We both had decent finance jobs that would have brought us more money over the years. They were easy enough, five days a week, 8-6 deals but our heart wasn’t in it. It was a comfortable, secure lifestyle. I don’t blame anyone for sticking with it. It just wasn’t us.
Why is everyone being such dicks on here. It’s one thing to be dicks amongst ourselves, but you guys are now just being shitty to an outsider for no reason except he has put himself out there, trying to do something to support the sport. At this point I’m surprised you shitheads were nice to Damian.
swiss amateur races? ever tried an interclub or belgain top competition? until you do keep your GF are harder than everything comments to yourself. add in UCI events and look its pointless forum point scoring but I know euro GFs and they are not going to replace a UCI race. the guys who get the money at GF in europe are getting an extra little push. bring in doping controls for the invited racers and we’ll talk.
A little civility – good or bad idea – it takes guts to do this and anything that seeks to promote cycling in a positive way benefits all of us.
hey 7:05, why don’t you publicly open your own ass and shove your checkbook up it?
what are you doing to promote cycling in nyc? oh that’s right, nothing.
props to uli, whether he makes money or not, for just doing this. it’s awsome, and will promote our town to the world as a fun place to visit as well as ride a bike.
>>>swiss amateur races?
Gran Prix Bern
>>>ever tried an interclub or belgain top competition?
No. I was never any good. Just pack fodder. Best I ever got was a domestique for Hans Holczer’s pre Gerolsteiner team. Why is that about my racing again?
>>>until you do keep your GF are harder than everything comments to yourself.
Where did I claim that?
>>>I know euro GFs
Again, out of curiosity, which GF have you done?
>>>and they are not going to replace a UCI race.
Maybe the UCI race will start on the same course of a GF ahead of the masses. Sponsors would like that.
>>>bring in doping controls for the invited racers and we’ll talk
My favorite topic.
I don’t know why you make it a personal thing. From what I gather, you’re a faster racer than I ever wished I could have been. It seems like you would have a good shot to take home the 7k Pina up for grabs. 🙂
>>>bring in doping controls for the invited racers and we’ll talk
My favorite topic.
I don’t know why you make it a personal thing. From what I gather, you’re a faster racer than I ever wished I could have been. It seems like you would have a good shot to take home the 7k Pina up for grabs. 🙂
i am in belgium. unless you are paying me to come over then sure. opinions are personal. he countered i countered back. i reckon he can handle it
uli- even if you put a “proper” race on with 100% road closure, network coverage, pro field, separate categories and start times the same curmudgeons would find something to complain about. it’s the nature of anon posting. as a result of this article i am now considering it, keep getting the word out
Uli has been hawking this thing all over the interwebs. It’s a bike tour; not a race and as such it doesn’t really belong here. At least the MS Tour has the balls to call itself what it really is. Can we devote a thread and a couple of days to talking about the five boro bike race?
I’m glad he’s hawking it. Why do you want to see this thing go down in flames? If it’s point-to-point next year with pro’s mixed in you’ll be crying to get in. If this event goes on succesfully without you wtf do you care. I have gone from 0% chance of doing it to 50%, so I find it valuable and plenty of others on here have said something similar. If you don’t like the thread, stop reading/commenting. Go be a dick somewhere else, like on bikesnob.
If it’s point-to-point next year with pro’s mixed in you’ll be crying to get in.
Uggh. Not gonna happen. Pat doesn’t like anything resembling competition.
No matter what, look for higher entry fees because the UCI likes money, not participation. This poor guy has bought into the UCI’s scam.
Hans Holczer’s pre Gerolsteiner team? enough said.
@….
I didn’t answer because I don’t have an answer. I have ideas and an opinion but neither are worthwhile here (or anywhere you might argue). There have been doping controls in pro cycling for decades…
uli i’ll go back to where i started. good luck with the event. any cycling event is better than not having one. i came on the site to look at the landis/kimmage transcript and was looking around. just kicking up my legs before i race tomorrow. on the cobbles it will require skill, tactics and power.
“just kicking up my legs before i race tomorrow. on the cobbles it will require skill, tactics and power.”
Good luck! Post a report somwhere.
Thanks to you and everyone else for the support!
“We ordered sunshine. I even found a discount code!”
i like this uli guy. he’s got the right attitude.
good luck, kids. i hope its successful, you earn a buck or two, and this is the first of many.
anyone with the dosh should give this a go. sounds great for cycling awareness. think this bridge a great gap b/t recreational riders and club racers.
Just heard from the police in Piermont that the fondo is coming thru Piermont and pit-stoping at the Flywheel Park across from the bike shop. The owner of the park has asked me to look into it since he was not aware of it and I manage the property. wvasquez0569@aol.com
Where can I find the Confirmed Rider List?
>>>I just don’t buy it that Pros are ever going to treat it more than what it is – an appearance – and so on (in diminishing proportions from Pro to Cat 5 to Citizen).
Absolutely. My vision is different: one day the pros may have their race ahead of a GF on the same course. They certainly would have to change their racing style to stay away from the amateurs starting only a few minutes later. But if sponsors would only be willing to put money on the line for pros if there are also the buying customers actively involved, pros would race it.
Again, I’d love to see traditional racing flourish. I’m just not convinced that the sport will find the sponsorship money needed to pay for road closures in the future. But who knows? Everything comes in cycles (sic). Maybe the whole sports for the masses movement dries out again and we’re back to where cycling started at the turn of the 20th century.
‘Yet another good point; sponsorship shrinking faster than participation is growing.
Best of luck with this event. If I am free, I am riding!
I would love to see the pros go and then a bunch of freds on the Milan-San Remo course. Hope they can race for 180 miles. Or on any cobblestoned course in Belgium. In the rain.
Dumb vision Uli. Your vision is my worst nightmare in cycling. Please, please, go back to Tris.
>>>I would love to see the pros go and then a bunch of freds on the Milan-San Remo course. Hope they can race for 180 miles. Or on any cobblestoned course in Belgium. In the rain. Dumb vision Uli. Your vision is my worst nightmare in cycling.
And yet in both cases it’s already happening, just on different days.
I give you a proper nightmare: M-SR finishes on the Turchino because Via Aurelia can’t get closed on a Saturday afternoon. The race turns into a 90 mile flat plus 10 mile hilltop finish course. I’m thrilled.
When I raced in Europe in the early 90s as an amateur, we had 20k, 30k loops on large roads, sometimes even one loop courses over 100 miles or the odd point to point race. Pure amateur races! My friends still racing today are left with the memory of such and keep circling 3k loops in villages for some cheap wine. It’s the golden age of the Floyd Bennet Field lovers.
If you have a better solution to get us out of that misery, I’m the first to support you. But I’m not standing at the sideline and watch the sport I love go down the drains.
>>>Please, please, go back to Tris.
My background and heart is in cycling and will always be. Competing as a triathlete and runner may have opened my mind (never a bad thing) but has not changed my passion.
Uli your ideas don’t meet reality. Road closures are difficult to come by because our metropolitan areas are overly congested and the general public don’t care about this sport. Your event is very likely to be something that compounds rather than helps the problem. I’m dumbfounded that the port authority is closing the GW for this, and based on Wilson’s post it seems that your permissions for this route may be sketchy. So maybe you have some in some places and no so much in others?
If events like this are to happen, and if legitimate road racing is to succeed it’ll have to move to places with more challenging terrain and away from population centers. Battenkill is the middle of nowhere. The NYS championship road course near lake placid is an amazing race course. Guys are just going to have to drive for those kind of racing.
NYC has the richest racing calendar in the country. To suggest there’s something wrong with racing at FBF, or Prospect, or Rockliegh is to just utterly miss the point. Racing is about competition. People against people. Yes on occasion there are events where the course factors in and adds an additional challenge, but with 100+ races within riding distance you’d be better served complaining about the state of racing someplace where guys regularly drive three+ hours to race on the weekend.
>>> based on Wilson’s post it seems that your permissions for this route may be sketchy. So maybe you have some in some places and no so much in others?
We have been speaking to the politicians and police officers on the course and have all necessary permits and major support from the communities. Many police officials are actually riding GFNY. We emailed with Wilson, the space that he is referring to is a commercial property that we will not be using at Gran Fondo New York.
>>>If events like this are to happen, and if legitimate road racing is to succeed it’ll have to move to places with more challenging terrain and away from population centers.
Yes, that’s definitely a solution. I love low key racing and applaud everyone who puts up these great events on their spare time.
>>>To suggest there’s something wrong with racing at FBF, or Prospect, or Rockliegh is to just utterly miss the point.
There’s absolutely nothing “wrong” with it just as there is nothing wrong with track racing. Those race courses are simply not my thing. Cycling on open roads is what I love. Mountains. Point to point courses. Changing weather conditions. Changing road surface. All that makes up an exciting race course for me. And it is hard to argue that those are the ingredients of all important pro races.
I know a lot of guys have trouble coming to grips with this, but we’re not pros. Gavi is barely a pro and he’s a pro. Will S is a pro in his head. But other than that, nope, not pros. A pro course wouldn’t be an out and back on major roads with the goal of climbing a couple of pimples en-route to something that wouldn’t even show up on a topo map in other parts of the state.
You’re the kind of guy who slathers lipstick on a pig and then gets bent out of shape when people tell you that’s what you’re doing. It’s a bike tour with some timed sections. Neat idea. If you call it what it is you’ll find guys give you significantly less heartache. To justify it by disparaging actual kinds of racing, and then to justify it by saying “There’s absolutely nothing “wrong” with it just as there is nothing wrong with track racing. Those race courses are simply not my thing,” is disingenuous. Particularly when this is an obvious slight: “My friends still racing today are left with the memory of such and keep circling 3k loops in villages for some cheap wine. It’s the golden age of the Floyd Bennet Field lovers.” NYC has FBF. It doesn’t have Koppenberg.
>>>To justify it by disparaging actual kinds of racing, and then to justify it by saying “There’s absolutely nothing “wrong” with it just as there is nothing wrong with track racing. Those race courses are simply not my thing,” is disingenuous.
To clarify: I never said and certainly did not want to imply that GFNY in its 2011 format replaces start to finish racing because it doesn’t. This discussion has drifted from GFNY to a more general discussion about road racing and what may lie ahead. One of my goals is to get road racing back on the open roads and Gran Fondo in general (!) may or may not be a way to get there. Time will tell.
This event is exactly what is washing the sport we love down the drain. Paying 200 bucks to ride roads I’ve ridden for free for god knows how long? You’re turning cycling in to the new golf. Please don’t compare this bullshit to racing. I’d rather pay 30 bucks and get my soul crushed in a crosswind up in Coxsackie or just go for a 100 mile ride with my friends FOR FREE.
Having said that. I’m sure this will be a huge successes. I mean shit Bicycling still sells magazines and people who have never gone faster then 15mph on a flat road still put di2 on their bikes. So don’t worry.
“This event is exactly what is washing the sport we love down the drain.”
Why? Please come to Paragon tonight at 6.30 for our info session and explain that to me in person. It doesn’t make sense at all. Giro boss Zomegnan called GFNY the most interesting sports project in the world right now. Why does the Giro partner with us? I guess if the Giro comes to NYC you will be among the ones saying that commercialism is killing the sport you love. We all love riding our bikes on no ones agenda and free to go anywhere. But we do also love to ride and race in company.
“Paying 200 bucks to ride roads I’ve ridden for free for god knows how long?”
Are we still at that? Pub beer vs. six pack at home. ANY racing vs. riding for free. Apples and oranges.
Uli is very insulting to all of us. This guy is so smug.
>>Are we still at that? Pub beer vs. six pack at home. ANY racing vs. riding for free. Apples and oranges.<< Racing and Gran Fondo = apples and oranges
This event has nothing to do with the “sport” of cycling and everything to do with the “leisure activity” of cycling.
I agree,i rather pay 30 bucks to get my soul crushed. Really let’s see how many usa cycling license holding racers will pay the 200 bucks. Most likely lot’s of the cat 5 and 4’s and a bunch of people who do the Ms tour and 5 borough bike tour. Good luck any bike riding event is good in N.Y.
As for me,my 200 will pay for Battenkill,Quabbin,Bear mnt,Housatonic and Bear fall…..
Race or ride the NY Fondo. Or if you are too school for cool then race in PP, CP or some NE race that day. Its all a matter of preference. I am sure most “participants” will be the Spoon crown on fancy bikes that dont hold a USA license. Does this make the event bad? No – it makes the event something that most of us racers have no interest in.
Its funny because I suspect most teams and racers in and around NYC would love to be invited to a Rapha gentlemans ride/race. Are the two events any different (putting aside the high cost)? Isnt the Rapha ride a team Fondo type event? Its ok there because Cat 1s and 2s are invited.
Is Gimbels or the Rocket Ride a race? No – but many a weekend warrier treat it as their Weekend WorldChampionship and they never pin a number on.
This argument is getting close to the “Racing out of town vs local park argument.” There will never be a winner. Just be happy we have so many options around NYC/Metro area.
Get a room already! Maybe the W on Union Square after the Paragon event.
Hey, it’s Baby Cobra, unleashed before GFNY!
By Associated Press / March 28, 2011
NEW YORK
A poisonous cobra has vanished from an enclosure outside public view at the Bronx Zoo, and its Reptile House remained closed Sunday as a precaution while zoo workers searched for the missing reptile.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0328/Bronx-Zoo-cobra-vanishes-reptile-house-closed
Just heard that the Rocket Ride is charging $20 and Gimbels $25 starting next month. Compared to GFNY that’s still a bargain.
I’ve been organizing a Gran Fondo (“Cyclosportif” north of the Alps) combined with a UCI race that is located 25 miles outside of Philadelphia for the past 15 years called the Univest Grand Prix. It’s a true cyclist’s event, they can ride their hearts out then watch the pros race.
It is great that Uli is taking on the enormous financial risk and herculean work load that this event requires. I frankly never thought he’d pull it off and my hat is off to him.
It is certain to be an enjoyable day for all and he deserves support. I would just advise Uli to not engage too directly on this forum, as he’s certain to lose the battle.The raw aggression that is missing in local racing seems to only come out in these posts….
Cyclosportives/Gran Fondos are fun events, great training, very good for the sport. Pros love to do them as do new riders. Support this fellow who is trying to do something positive for cycling.
“The raw aggression that is missing in local racing seems to only come out in these posts….”
Bullseye!
Please respond to Rayan Saddlebag @ 10:14 a.m. 3/27:
>>> Where can I find the Confirmed Riders list?
If Massengill would sponsor the GFNY, a lot of anonymous posters here could be supplied with free product.
Hey Useless, by raw aggression do you mean futile attacks in the jogger’s lane?
Letting the guys/gals who race go first is a great idea. To be honest, I am on the fence. This seems like a great event (Support cycling in an event here in NYC)how can one go wrong?!
Then there is the bad. Your shutting down the GWB and parts of 9W to people who can barely ride in a straight line (I marshalled the 5 boro bike tour one year…horrible)
Listen, racing is expensive and traveling for races is time consuming. But this event is in our back yard.
Does that mean I’ll do it
Not a chance in hell!
Will the Schmalz-fondo come through Astoria? Also, if we can stop by Gristede’s..I gotta pick up cat food
If this develops into anything like the GF’s in Europe then it will become the main target for a lot of racers in the future. Ya’ll have no clue yet, but you will. It’s a RACE alright and dont forget its not a race in circles in CP or PP. How often do you get the chance to do a real road race in the US?
GFNY and Dieter’s races are transforming cycling in the US. We will have to see how this plays out but it looks like we’ll be seeing more big mass events charging $100+. If these events are successful they will encourage more of these type of events. It’s hard to measure good or bad and for who but it’s going to be different. It will be interesting to see if the familiar category races charging $35 get squeezed out.
RE: educate yourself
Probably 75% of the people that read this site do, in fact, race ‘real’ races on ‘real’ roads.
And probably 85% of the 25% that haven’t yet will probably do this too, in the future.
“they say 60% of the time, it works every time.” sorry, i had to.
Double whammy. $200 and on mothers day. Other than that though I think this is an awesome idea to help promote cycling. It it were $100 and on any other day I’d do it, but for $200 I can race for a month and a half, plus if I didnt show up for mothers day I’d probably be beaten so bad I’d never race again anyway.
“It will be interesting to see if the familiar category races charging $35 get squeezed out.”
the only thing that could “squeeze out” these races around here is the Parks Dept. and the NYPD. They are too popular, too convenient, and dare I say it, a fun way to get some racing in for those who can’t spend all day on a bike, and some speed work for those who can.
No problem for the local races. I was referring to the existing regional road races.
I wish the GF organizer the best of luck. I know I won’t pay $200 for what amounts to a local ride with a TT thrown in for good measure. I don’t need these roads closed for me to ride on them, I’ve been riding on the same roads with cars for many years. If I was from out of town and coming to the NY area, I might consider it, but $200 is still steep by any standard.
I won’t be riding GFNY but I have to give Uli credit for wading into the NY Velocity shark pool to begin with. He may not get much turn out among racers but that’ll be more than made up for by the throngs of rec riders who’ll descend on the city to ride this thing. Best of luck for a safe and well-attended event.
>>>I won’t be riding GFNY but I have to give Uli credit for wading into the NY Velocity shark pool to begin with. He may not get much turn out among racers but that’ll be more than made up for by the throngs of rec riders who’ll descend on the city to ride this thing. Best of luck for a safe and well-attended event.
Thanks much for your support! There’s actually a rising number of local racers signing up which is a good thing. It seems that people understand the draw of the competition prizes and Amateur Worlds qualifying.
We’re glad to see that not all of the prizes go to the racers from Italy but stay local.
http://thewire.co.uk/files.php?file=1771&action=stream&articleID=6013
Fantastic to see something different here. If you don’t want to, don’t ride it. Good luck Uli.
Wait, Uli a Gran Fondo = Cyclosportif. Heck if we new that we would have all been behind you.
how many confirmed riders do you currently have?
And you care why, exactly?
….unless of course you’re NYPD Captain Wishnawhatever and salivating at the thought of writing over 2,000 bike traffic tickets in an afternoon.
Thanks for serving as lightning rod for all the d-bags here. I, too, went from 0% to about 50% wanting to ride the GFNY now.
Cyclosportif and Grand Fondo = oranges and tangerines
They’re called “Cyclosportive” in France. The concept is the same but the events are less competitive than Italian Gran Fondo.
The Brits copied the name or simply call it “Sportive” but they’re mostly non-competitve in the UK.
Equally, most American Gran Fondo should be called “Cicloturismo” which equals the concept of a non-competitive century ride.
Best of luck with the event – hope it goes well. You deserve an award for putting up with all the half-wits who make a habit of embarassing themselves and everyone else in the region routinely on this site.
they have them in Germany too, they are called “jedermanrennen”
(literally every man races) I’ve heard they are also pretty competitive.
A “Jedermannrennen” (=”race for everyone”) is a far cry from an Italian GF and closer to a “C Cat” (lowest racing cat in Germany). An Italian GF at the front is easily A Cat and most times above.
Some events are also called “Radmarathon” (cycling marathon) but they’re non-competitive in Germany. In Austria and Switzerland, however, they can be races.
Dude, this should be called pay one Grand to ride a fun tour to Bear and Back~~~~(LOL)
YOU SAY:
If you plan to do the Gran Fondo, make sure you sign up before the entry fee goes up on
April 1.
It has been a tough winter and you couldn’t train as much as you wanted but you still want to be part of Gran Fondo New York? Our non-competitive Medio Fondo is for you. The 71-mile/112km course features the same spectacular start on George Washington Bridge, charming Hudson River Towns Piermont and Nyack, three aid stations, two timed climbs and a stunning finish facing the midtown Manhattan skyline. Register now to secure your spot, there are only a limited amount of Medio Fondo New York entries available. The entry includes a custom European cut Giordana jersey that is made in Italy.
Will the Schmalz-fondo come through Astoria? Also, if we can stop by Gristede’s..I gotta pick up cat food
You could ride around in circles for free in central park instead. That would be called Clusterfuckfondo.
make it a race and I’ll race, but right now its a fun tour and we racers dont do dat.
Just limit the douchefondo to track bikes only and it’ll be 10/10.
12-16″ of snow at Battenkill over the next 36 hours, then rain most of the week.
Maybe the Gran Fondo isn’t such a bad idea after all.
its just like STP, Seattle to Portland, 200miles. There are teams that show up at the beginning official start, and TTT in 9 hours, and then there are the big wheel hipsters (literally), and the grannies with baskets…you can do it in one or 2 days…
The worst part, is now people will ask you did you do that race like the Escape from NY Race!!!
And you can esplain is not a real race like FBF!!!
Other fun rides, RSVP: Ride from Seattle to Vancouver and Party! or RAMROD, Ride Around Mt. Ranier in One Day…
Ski to Sea, Ski down Mt Hood, then paddle, run and ride to the Ocean…
Its like Adventure Racing…douches in need of a douche…
If it doesnt count for upgrading, (say it altogether…) its not a real race…
To all the CRCA racers who have signed up: please email us so we can make sure that you have a front row start. Thanks!
should get a front row start. Non CRCA members race in all the open races throughout the area and should be given the same privilege.
Htn Mtn Spring Rush….
Ski down K27, Kayak and then cycle part of the Tour de Catskills Course…
how many confirmed riders do you have?
@ keano lube no i’m not a cop. they’ve got official permits for road closures any way (or so they say) so that point is moot. right?
WHY do i want to know? well, a month before the race would be a pretty good sign of how seriously people are taking this if we knew…they have 10 riders, or 100 riders, or 1,000 riders.
Events on bikereg.com nearly always have a confirmed riders list. Helps you get a sense of who’s going to be there – and whether this is worth the 200 beans. Or, more than 200 beans, if you don’t register by tomorrow.
Uli seems more than willing to take the bait and sink into every other BS debate on here – but won’t answer this pretty basic, straight-forward question. Why not?
2,800 riders from 33 countries (clubs coming from as far as Australia) and 37 US states have registered as of today. Also, our global media partners (www.granfondony.com/press.php), our sponsors and our partner Giro d’Italia are taking it very seriously.
Entry fee increases tomorrow, April 1. We are willing to keep the entry at $200 until April 7 for CRCA racers who register through their team (at least four riders). Teams can email us at info@granfondony.com for details.
agreed, no problem. one email to info@granfondony.com and it’s done.
Was this question answered:
“What about those of us not doing it but doing our usual training on the same route?”
Or was this meant to be the answer: “No one crosses the bridge without the GFNY jersey”, meaning no one can train over the bridge that day.
2:22, how many confirmed friends do you have? well, a month before the gfny starts would be a pretty good sign of how seriously people take you if we knew.
you can always ride over the bridge on the bike lane….sounds like they have closed the bride road itself.
Thanks. Much appreciated. Looks like you’ve got a great turnout on your hands.
@ 4:37 p.m. Nobody is surprised that a hairy-legged custard eater like yourself has no idea what a confirmed riders list is. But good one! Did you make that up all by yourself?
The answer to your question is….3. I have 3 friends. Not counting my pen pal Floyd the Mennonite.
Sounded like the creepy dude wanted to know who was registered and from where (since they post that kind of info on bikereg–brilliant). Then they could easily look up their address and go steal some shit from their homes. Think that doesn’t happen? Just ask David Zabriskie.
@8:12 p.m., yes, i’m sure i’d be able to lift your entire trailer off of its blocks and tow it all the way out of the park.
but drat! foiled! you’ve outed the burglar di fondo!
how many confirmed riders do you have?
@ keanu lube no i’m not a cop. they’ve got official permits for road closures any way (or so they say) so that point is moot. right?
WHY do i want to know? well, a month before the race would be a pretty good sign of how seriously people are taking this if we knew…they have 10 riders, or 100 riders, or 1,000 riders.
Events bikereg.com nearly always have a confirmed riders list. Helps you get a sense of who’s going to be there – and whether this is worth the 200 beans. Or, more than 200 beans, if you don’t register by tomorrow.
Uli seems more than willing to take the bait and sink into every other BS debate on here – but won’t answer this pretty basic, straight-forward question. Why not?
Greg
Chiappa has given you a run for your money before. He’ll be back and wants revenge. Watch out. Simoni looks pretty sharp so you may have to ramp up the training a little anyway. Big G wants to come but the DS has the last call. Don’t get in a fight with Voigte but that’s a given I suppose.
Hope that helps
Uli
I thought we already had the GranFondo NY…its called the GIMBELS!!!! Thats what I’m doin, and the New Rochelle whores with my $200 when its done!!!
Love the GFNY Uli, but come on, a NYer can smell a scam a mile away..we are way too sinnicle…
The Euro’s wear speedos…need I say more…
RE: Mr 75/85/25 percent
If you never did a Gran Fondo then what exactly do you know? This is a RACE! Try it and see just how tough it will be. Nothing like this has ever happen before in NY before. It could become an important kickass annual event much different from Bear Mtn or a dangerous group training ride. And yeah it aint cheap, that’s a bummer but so is the cost of riding the metro in NY, dining out, renting……
Sign up, and for those who want to race get up to the front and you will see after 5 miles what it is all about
There is no race coming through Piermont. The road will not be closed. You will be allowed to pass through the town but must make room for cars to pass. You will have to proceed through town slowly and stop for car traffic to pass. You will be escorted along the route by police vehicles at 10 mph.
I am currently registered, however cannot ride due to a medical issue.
If you or someone you know has yet to register, I can transfer my registration before April 15.
I’ll save them $100 off of normal registration.
Contact me at javaruke@gmail.com
i simply need to know where the granfondoNY starts from …it doesnt seem to say clearly anywhere???
The start is GW bridge on the Manhattan side is what I understand.
I would never participate in any event that she (Lidia) has anything to do with. If you like to be belittled, and insulted for not being fast enough, Lidia is your woman. For support and kindness, look elsewhere.
are important to you in race organizers?!
Sounds like a spurned lover.
The ironic thing is that Uli will have results up the next day for his non-race and no one still has any clue that what happened in the spring series.
What times are the bridge closed Sunday?