Here’s our repository for random ToC chatter. Discuss amongst yourselves:
Anyone notice how many more guys are doing the Floyd TT position this year?
And the wind, hello? It was windy on the prologue course, and the wind direction changed during the day. Why did we have to find out about the wind conditions after the race in interview anecdotes?
Didn’t it look like Jens Voigt was going to snap his bike in two when he took that pull at the end of Stage 1?
What do you think of the official’s neutralization of the finishing laps? Home cooking? Brunyeel more powerful than we thought? ToC mimicking TdF style favoritism with Levi?
How would you rate the coverage so far? At least they got a chopper this year. (Although I think the chopper pilot may have been a little tipsy…)
Rolling resistance
Clinchers have lower Crr than tubulars, with exception to one or two special tubulars and glue that negate the disadvantage. Your course dictates the best tire for you.
German Magazine "Tour" rolling resistance results
Tire Crr
Deda Tre Giro d’Italia 0.0038
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 0.0039
Michelin Pro 2 Race 0.0042
Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain 0.0044
Michelin Megamium 2 0.0047
Pariba Revolution 0.0048
Veloflex Carbon (Tubular) 0.0049
Michelin Carbon 0.0050
Gommitalia Route du Nord (Tubular) 0.0050
Panaracer Stradius Pro 0.0051
Schwalbe Stelvio Plus 0.0052
Gommitalia Platinum (Tubular) 0.0053
Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (Tubular) 0.0054
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Front 0.0056
Continental GP Force (rear specific) 0.0057
Hutchinson Fusion 0.0057
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Rear 0.0057
Vittoria Corsa Evo KS (Tubular) 0.0057
Continental Ultra GatorSkin 0.0058
Ritchey Pro Race Slick WCS 0.0058
Schwalbe Stelvio 0.0059
Continental Competition (Tubular) 0.0059
Veloflex Roubaix (Tubular) 0.0059
Continental Podium (Tubular) 0.0060
Specialized S-Works Mondo 0.0061
Continental GP 3000 0.0067
Hutchinson Top Speed 0.0069
Schwalbe Stelvio (Tubular) 0.0069
Continental GP Attack (front specific) 0.0073
Tufo Elite Jet (Tubular) 0.0073
Schwalbe Montello 300 (Tubular) 0.0075
Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon (Tubular) 0.0077
Average Clincher: 0.0054
Average Tubular: 0.0061
Separated at birth?
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~da217735/scott.jpg
i can’t claim credit for coining ice dancer. schmalz did that in one of his daily tour de france recaps.
ice dancer… that’s beautiful.
<<So, what’s the deal with all these idiots wearing costumes and running alongside the race?>>
The football helmet guy –
I think he is a different "footbal guy" the original (OG) football guy had texas longhorns on his helmet – this guy had eagle wings – maybe he swapped out the horn for wings?
The pope – I wish he would get back to looking-the-other-way when kids get molested in US parishes
"Super Fan" Thsi guy thinks he’s Will Farell
So, what’s the deal with all these idiots wearing costumes and running alongside the race?
The football helmet guy – alright he’s been around a while, he can stay.
The grim reaper – boring premise, jump off the hilltop.
The pope – ugh, so stupid.
"Super Fan" Guy – I keep secretly hoping he trips and gets hit by a moto, does that make me a bad person?
Didi, what have you started?
good call MQ…levi might be in a different kit this year but he’ll always be an ice dancer
How’s that crow now, cap?
Well I dont do impresions. but can anyone guess who this is?
Wait, Wait, I dont have two of my teamates………………….. I call time out
Then all I can say is "Well Done!" Assuming thats true it goes to show what training for a specific event and laying it on the line can do. And yes I noticed he came in with the second group last night well ahead of dozens of "Pro Tour" riders. Now pardon me while I finish my dinner (broiled crow, tastes just like chicken)
hey Cap’n Ed…Jason Donald is young and has trained specifically to win that prologue….plus there was no wind shift…or timing error…the dude just laid it down
Well-timed response, "me". Chapeau.
Here’s a whole bunch of pics from the TOC not in the article. Plenty of bike porn for all you pervs..
http://adobe.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?UAUTOLOGIN_ID=767304486108&collid=767304486108.722844486108.1172286748818&page=1&sort_order=0&navfolderid=0&folderid=0&ownerid=0
i’m not good with clues…need it to be more specific
see if you ever get a chance to listen to wannabes sucking up to him.
I has in a stage race with him the Adirondacks in the early 1990s and it was hilarious hearing the dopey slang some riders were using in talking to him to try to sound cool and with-it. "Scoring coin" and "riding much Ks" and other such nonsense.
hahahahaha
Yeah, I always thought the whole Tour-day-France thing was pretty stupid.
But gotta give him credit for calling Floyd’s big comeback in the Tour. Unless OLN dubbed in his pre-race comments after the fact (I watched the reply) he called Floyd’s amazing stage exactly as it happened.
Roll’s been trying to be a character for so long, I don’t think he even cares what comes out of his mouth any more, as long as it’s uttered in ridiculous tones.
He is beginning to sound like an ignorant idiot with the in porper pronunciation of names, venues…I know he means to be funny, but as a foreigner listening to him, after repeated use he now just sounds offensive.
had to be imported corn wine
Vin du Pays Maize?
…or was it a Jeroboam?
the clue is on the title – Tour of California chatter. Kind of obvious people would be talking about the results – no ?
I’ve got lee 2 jft 1 – sprint off!!
Beautiful out there in California. And the bottle of wine Bettini won…you see the look on his face….homes was like, ‘Damn!…a methusaleh of Pinot Noir!’
Let no one enter who does not expect to be spoiled.
Ciolek mistimed his throw, did it just after the line, cost him the win. The barrier thing was nasty. You could see Bettini look left, look right, then realize he had to hit the brakes.
And what about Coilek’s headbanging sprint style?
damn it! i hadn’t watched y’day’s stage on DVR yet! next time give a spoiler alert.
On tires and rolling resistance. Never heard back about that and it’s been weeks. BS
Bettini winning the day after Voigt makes the ToC prestigious-er. But what’s up with the cross-traffic barely held back by rickety barriers before the sprinters even wind down fully? Scary!
In the tire discussion I’m certain Lee was googling to find something to back up the BS he said. In the shower/toilet thing he was flat out wrong and just talking out his ass.
And most importantly, this wouldn’t happen if Lee was a critical thinker and didn’t repeat stuff that was simply wrong, even if someone else says it. I guess that’s the real problem I have — his info is wrong.
So keep it coming Lee. I’ll be slower on the BS charges, but just as quick to point out when he’s wrong.
because Lee3 is funnier than Mr. 60%.
as opposed to BSing, which is better.
I’d apologize for saying he was BSing, but he’s done it in the past enough so I’ll be petty and not apologize
JFT
What is that?
(echo)
see? it is working already
It seems like every time you whine for proof and not get it in a timely manner you assume its BS when I’ve got 2 occassions that you asserted BS and 2 occassions that you munched crow. I bet you were a bully in grade school.
man, i love amateur announcing! robbie didn’t even stammer.
About the team overall….
I saw this too, but it seems like lee3 isn’t going to find it:
From cyclingnews.com, Feb.21: Hans-Michael Holczer (Gerolstiener) said, "Even if the crash happened about 10 kilometres before the finish, there’s a rule that when 60 percent of the field is involved, then all riders receive the same time."
This was a rider speaking, not an official.
toto page updated
it won’t last long though
If everyone stopped reading Lee3’s posts would he cease to exist?
And if not, can we try anyway?
What’s with Basso wearing the Texaa logo, Lance version Nike shoes in this tour? I remember seeing adv of him campaigning for the Sidi shoes…Is this another Lance influence?
they have a simular sense of humor but not the same person. leto is funnier though (sorry lee) When you start doing standup I’ll vouch for you
Lee3 – argument master! What are the odds that Lee3 and leto V are the same person?
If he had a laptop by his side he’d slay you and your wife at jeopardy!
I heard my name. Did somebody say 60%?
How can I help you?
http://cycopaths.blogspot.com/
The man likes to argue – you gotta admit he gets it done and sniffed out everything.
technically it didnt happened until you poked a stick at it with your "I’ll look tonite" ploy. I’ve got 18
you should be a psych major. I
How easy was that… you owe me five bigones! I got’em lathered in 7
can we get a lee3 vs jt undercard at the next ladies’ sprint championships?
I love your comeback when I call you on your BS. On the one hand you won’t admit you’re mistaken or just making stuff up.
But on the other hand you try to denigrate my comment by saying I’ve got some sort of issue. Yeah, my issue is I don’t like BS I don’t agree with. I may BS a little myself, but if anyone calls me on it I’ll own up to it, or at least shut up and hide.
If it’s really no big deal to you just say "I was wrong" and then shut up. Instead you say you remember reading it somewhere. Suuuureee you do. Suuure.
hahahahahaha
A REAL Fact Freak would know that!
But sadly there is no mention of a 60% rule there either…..
Lee3, is the "60% rule" like the "170PSI is faster" thing? LOL.
JFFT
yea… I cant seem to find or remember the link but I’m pretty clear on remembering reading it so….sorry to see you’re losing sleep over this.
goodluck with your new found issue!
Baldwin, what are you talking about? CSC has Jens and Stuey in the top 10 (Stuey probably not for long) and Disco is um, leading. They sprinted up the hill to pop Levi off the front, seemed like mission accomplished…
Yeah, Disco looked cooked vs. CSC in the overall: They burned all their guys trying to chase the early break and couldn’t keep it together on the climb. The Top-10 looks set, but I expect Chadwick and Lagutin to go higher after the TT. I predict 7th-8th for the Navs at the finish.
Pro Tour teams separated themselves from US teams yesterday except for Navigators which is holding 2nd only 3 seconds behind CSC.
Tour of Cali is great race. Great crowds, great support, even Arnold loves it. Eliot are you reading?
and having the nous (or making the gamble) that the break would be an all-day threat. The points leader was burned up and couldn’t make the time cut.
Horner rotated w/ Disco? I didn’t see that…
I love the Velonews feed comment: "Jens Voigt is smiling as the lead group is coming down Patterson Pass – at around 55km. This break is playing right into the CSC squad’s hands."
That and Horner’s up-yours to Predictor-Lotto helping Discovery pull them back around that time.
I have to say that my Jens Voigt man crush increased after yesterday’s TOKE win.
XM
I remember where I read about the 60%. I was pissed that the live stream was suckin so I clicked on to the, I believe cyclingnews or it could’ve been D.Pelot., Live ticker. Before the start of the stage the "ticker commentator" made the statement. I cant seem to find yesterday’s ticker, yet I suppose there is certainly room for error since no one can really access where this person derived his facts. I do remember him/her stating it as some sort of "rule" and that the california decision was not out of the ordinary.
almost the whole field was held up and she and one other woman weren’t. They were in front, so they got the benefit, as it should bet.
I got a minor place at a cat 3 crit at Superweek the same way — attacked from the field (a break was gone) into a corner with a few laps to go and the guys behind me laid it down, blocking everyone else.
These weren’t stage races, but I frankly don’t like that ruling in the TOC first stage. The guys in front should benefit from those situations. If the officials want to make the racing "safer" by not having everyone push to be up front, then they should extend the safety zone before the race.
If the crash was caused by something freaky — a car getting on the course, or lightning hitting a pole, then I coudl see that sort of ruling being appropriate. As it is, it’s favoritism to some riders.
2003 – 1st and 2nd at two races in the Winter Park MTB series (Expert
19-24):
http://tinyurl.com/393lme
http://tinyurl.com/38tbvm
2004 2nd at one race in the Winter Park MTB series (Pro Men):
http://tinyurl.com/2mz2vt
2005 March – Wins the first two Cat 4 (ACA entry level) training
races:
http://tinyurl.com/2j7m5h
2005 April – Wins all three Cat 3 races that he enters then disapears
until June:
http://tinyurl.com/2wlqtq
http://tinyurl.com/2stqlu
http://tinyurl.com/2ougn9
2005 June – 6th in his first P,1,2 criterium. then no worse that 4th
in three stages of first P,1,2 stage race
http://tinyurl.com/3dhazb
http://tinyurl.com/39ansv
2005 July – Wins first P,1,2 hill climb and then 5th at Mt Evans:
http://tinyurl.com/2mukn7
http://tinyurl.com/2stj4m
2006 – 1st Tour of Gila stage, Colorado state criterium champion
http://tinyurl.com/2ku24e
http://tinyurl.com/2pejtf
2007 – 2nd Tour of CA prologue
The Tour of France has rules about time cuts not applying if the number of riders cut exceeds a certain percentage of the total field, so the example, so the 2006 example was not a fudge of the rules.
But yeah, there have been instances of officials bending the rules — or more specifically taking advantage of portions of the rules allowing for discretion/changes in exceptional circumstances.
I don’t know about the 60% rule, But the Race Gods have been known to fudge rules in the past during extreme events. Think back to Stage 13 of the 2006 TdF. If they stuck to the rules only 5 guys would have been able to continue the next day since the break had 30mins on the Peloton. Nearly the whole field was outside the time limit. 2/3s of the field geting held up by a wreck sounds like an extreme event.
Is this some sort of special rule for this race, or a more general rule? If it’s general, it has to be at http://www.usacycling.org (if the race is run under USAC rules) and http://www.uci.ch if it’s under UCI rules.
60% rule sounds not true to me.
spent a little time trolling around the old news sites I visited…..couldnt find it right away. Still busy at work so…. I’ll look more tonite though.
stand by on this.
I thought he was off to adventures in Kazakhistan.
I don’t believe there is such a rule, but could be wrong. Lee3, what have you found?
Ventura for sure knows his stuff, almost too ‘Inside Baseball’ at times, and god bless him for being genuine, if unpolished.
But I started a drinking game….every time he says ‘obviously phenomenal’ I take a sip.
I’m pretty drunk right now.
There used to be a Baldwin in the club. Is this the same Baldwin? I thought we were rid of him.
"There used to be a Baldwin in the club. Is this the same Baldwin? I thought we were rid of him."
NYVelocity has loose membership requirements. Breathing=In
Alejandro Acton who wrenched at SBR in 2005 took 13th in stage 2. He’s done almost every Bear,Mengoni and Harlem race for the last 3-4 years.
If Lee is right about the 60% rule, Ligget and Sherwen should have been all over it. I don’t remember hearing anything. Their unabashed endorsement of Landis is also off the charts journalistically.
Is Vegas making book on Tour of Cali? Should pick up action after NBA last week.
Actually I read that there is a rule stating that if 60% of the field goes down in a mass pile-up they institute same time policy. i’ll look for a link, yet I’m pretty sure TOC were not out of context with implementing that decision.
I’d rather listen to Sherwen than Liggett. Phil gets it wrong from time to time as far as Identifying riders and such. Sherwen seems to know more facts than anyone commentating today. Ventura isnt a good as McCrosson (cycl.tv) but, give’em a break he’s new at it. I think he talks a bit too fast sometimes.
Lets just all wait and see what happens @ the second ITT before we speculate on Donald’s talent. He could be the real deal. I’d be interested in knowing how he really stacks up without the nudge from mothernature.
So, me making the jump to say "rotten from head to toe" was a big leap in logic?
In your previous comment, you went after USAcycling for the following:
"Imporvised" rulings in the ToC
Failing to test for EPO last year AND
An inconsistent and unfair upgrading process.
And you get all ruffled because I poked at you for being critical?
I don’t recall you saying anything positive about USAcycling in your first post. Now you have to go all sensible on me. This is the internet! How’s that going to repay my OTB debts?
USAcycling – rotten from head to toe! Some fine investigative journalism, there! Also, I like to call the Toc the "toke", just because, you know, it’s California…
Didn’t say rotten from head to toe. Said some stupid mistakes like changing the rules in the middle of the game and not making sure that the EPO tests were done last year are hurting some of the very good work they have been doing. Creation of US Pro Tour is major accomplishment. hopefully they can sustain it. Even for us lowly members there new web access is big improvement.
I think the wind had an effect. Outside interference sounds like cheating, or some timing error, or something beyond the normal expectations of a bike race. Wind is part of racing. That’s racing.
I think the wind had an effect. Outside interference sounds like cheating, or some timing error, or something beyond the normal expectations of a bike race. Wind is part of racing. That’s racing.
Signed, JFT
not sure?
If Donald had crashed would they have imporvised new rules? I think not and that says it all. With the doping scandal the major cycling story, the sport needs integrity above all. Unfortunately USAcycling is sabotaging some very good work that they have done. Besides this improvised rule change, they failed to test for EPO last year and somewhere way down the chain we know the upgrading process is inconsistent and unfair.
Baloney.
Sorry to be argumentative, but that’s it.
Um, headwind for others, tailwind for you. Yes, that’s racing, but only an idiot would think that the wind had no effect on the outcome.
Better than Robbie Ventura on the webstream…I swear, if that guy says ‘obviously’ one more time I’m gonna scream.
….just count how many times in a random five-minute sample….I say at least 15 times…
My beef is…what’s so obvious about anything he’s saying? And if it’s so obvious, then why is he bothering to say it?
Pro announcers, love ’em or not, are trained to avoid repetition. (Whether they do or not is a measure of their professionalism) Ventura is the equivalent of a Cat. 4 announcer.
camera work sucks…
It happened
JT, that’s just being argumentative. The point is that it doesn’t happen without some outside interference, which was the case here.
Did Anyone see American Idol?
Is it just that he owns a gold mine on the Ugandan-Kenyan border that bugs me or is he really a terrible announcer and totally ignorant of changes in equipment and training since he rode in the 80’s? Some might find his vocabulary interesting but I think it just helps reinforce that cycling is alien and foreign to America. I alos find he has little of substance to say and keeps repeating himself. On the other hand I find Ligget’s enthusiasm to be genuine and likeable.
Very legitimate beef. Sherwen and Liggett both mentioned "timing error". Bob Roll’s lovefest with discovery is nothin new under the sun either. VS is lacking. The Web coverage is leaps and bounds improved from last year. It still gets a bit slideshowy from time to time but compared to last yr. – good job. It puts streamed Euro-coverage to downright shame. Better bells and whistles than cycling tv.
Leaving out a little detail like the wind picking up through-out the day on the prologue TT was pretty lame. Any true cycling fan had to wonder how a guy doin’ his first pro race (if I have my facts straight) could take 5-10 seconds out of the seasoned pro tour favorites. Nothing personal against Jason Donald but that just does not happen. And as for neutralizing the race; well the rules are pretty clear. Final 3 km, not final 3-6 miles (not sure of the exact distance). Crashes happen, s— happens, that’s racin’. Hurray for Levi; but it kinda smells like some serious homer-ism to me. Of course pro cycling seems to pretty much make it up as they go along when in comes to rules(Lottery,Lotto, Uni-bet, Online Lottery, ? jerseys); no wonder we’ll never have a following outside of us bikee, weekend warrior, road racing freaks.
if you dumb down your coverage the audience inevitably thinks the sport is dumb.
Would think that USCF would have more input into coverage. But announcers know and care nothing about US Pro Tour. When it seemed that Donald would pull off upset, Sherwen said there had to be a timing error. That was only coverage Donald got. Navigators is in second place after 2 days and hasn’t been mentioned. Listing riders by nation instead of by team serves to take away from getting recognition of domestic US racing.