Section head text.
So how has the transfer season gone for everybody? Has everyone found a chair now that the music is close to stopping? And now that the lineups have been assembled, and the team clothing order has been submitted (and no, no one wants the knickers, so stop complaining), has the blinding optimism for the upcoming season started yet? Of course this is going to be the best season ever…
Please, have you looked at the guys who make up the local teams, all are very well to do, they have multiple $5k+ bikes, make high six figures, and spend huge amounts on coaching sometimes with world famous doctors, oops I mean coaches, to do what. Race in local and regional events and yousay doping is to expensive? These A type people wouldn’t do it? Get real!
La Ruta would be interview worthy
Please, have you looked at the guys who make up the local teams, all are very well to do, they have multiple $5k+ bikes, make high six figures, and spend huge amounts on coaching sometimes with world famous doctors, oops I mean coaches, to do what. Race in local and regional events and yousay doping is to expensive? These A type people wouldn’t do it? Get real!
how does extra femur help? doesn’t do me much good
When is the CRCA bear party?
Beads, please.
Coconut oil? Is that a doping product?
I see he is racing in the La Ruta. Thats badass!
http://www.bodyriteltd.com/
Can you make this? 🙂
they did it all by thier lonesome
you all talk to much I’m pretty sure you all have done doping before I mean all of you accusing and talking crap about people that been cough.so stop the bull
I hate my job and need dope to cope
Adler doesn’t need to dope for sex.
My sex is dope
so lame a just wasted 20 min to listen except that Joe by UCI or USCF law must return all trophies, medals and prize monies to any race promoter who asks. He owes the club some bucks, and a trophie or two, so does Pulla.
10:47 is right – look at TV sometime. They’re telling us to dope for everything. Sex, boredom, excitment, hair, weight loss, weight gain
Disturbing but true
http://www.joepapp.com/index.php?page=detailsnews&element=227
He got to equate himself with former Tour de France winners with national publicity
I know this may sound like a stupid question but there will be a race tomorrow right? I’m only asking because the last one was cancelled…I don’t want to be the only moron hoping for a turkey at 6AM.
Check out Papp’s website. He’s enjoying his celebrity. http://www.joepapp.com.
Maybe CRCA and others should start asking for their money back. $2,000 for Junior development sounds like a good start. He forfeited all results since 2001 in agreement with USADA so he really has to return his winnings. Maybe then, he’ll realize he did something wrong.
Unfortunately, there is a culture of doping especially among younger athletes- in ALL sports. It is too common place and casual by my fossilized standards. The law, rules, and ethics are only an inconvenience. A culture of winning at any cost, ease of acquisition, and fueled by ego make doping an integral doping part of some athletes training program.
ditto to what Eugene said. I have suspcions of some people (not based on their performance, but on their personality and who they hang with) but what do I know for sure? Not much.
Don’t jump on me – I’m not saying it’s right.
But I have the impression a course of EPO to have a good effect is something like $1K-$10K. Steroids and cortisone can be a lot less. Amphetimine is cheap (ask the club kids) and has an immediate effect (plus you could have a heart attack and die on the spot! Bonus!)
Ephedra and such is cheap too and illegal in sport.
I got the one “dope” I ever used for cycling (lidocaine – look it up before you rag on me) for free but the person who gave it to me probably paid $10.
Eugene makes some fine points. My question is how much does a cycle of doping cost? If expensive, and most of the elite level guys are borderline unemployed, where are they getting the funds to buy this stuff? Seems like it would be too expensive for most guys to purchase.
doping at the local NYC is sad, really sad.
It has happened, we know by the freakin’ idiots that got caught.
There is probably a lot less of it than the thread suggests.
JT is probably right…, which really just tells you how sad and little personality Puja and Papp have.
They doped, but in a grand scheme, they still sucked ass.
This is an interesting interview (see link below). It resonates with a lot of the comments in this thread.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,515459,00.html
I don’t have first hand knowledge of anyone who dopes locally. But I find it hard to believe that nobody does. As someone said below, it’s a logical next step for someone who has already given up everything else for the sport to take something that will make them faster and more popular in the community. Especially when it’s easy to get, which I assume it is because this is NYC and you can pretty much get anything you want here. Hell, I bet you can get it delivered in under 2 hours.
Earlier, someone (who is new) asked if there’s really so much doping at the cat.3 level, and used these threads as an indication.
I only have direct knowledge of three people (locally/regionally) who doped recently. Aside from them, I don’t know anything for sure– I have my suspicions, but nothing is certain (and maybe I’m naive).
I suspect most people’s experience is the same– that we’re only truly aware of very few people who dope(d).
But what the new guy has been reading sounds like it’s everywhere, it’s plainly evident, and everyone has first-hand knowledge. All we really have are anonymous postings about phantoms. So beyond rumor and innuendo, what do we really know? And where do the accusations and suspicions really come from if there’s so little personal knowledge?
That is a cool picture though!
Maybe the guys on the Venezualan boondoggle can bring us back some of that good South American stuff.
Knowing Papp, I highly doubt he feels bad and I’m pretty sure he would be doping still, if he did not get busted.
And for those defending Pulla…go to his shop that poster is really there! How is that for a nice guy and feeling guilty?!
I would not buy a tube from him, if I had to walk home.
http://www.innovationbikeshop.com/aboutus.html
Could you at least follow Daniel and MYR’s example and use your own name?
Thanks.
I speed. I love to run red lights (solo) only when it’s safe in a group). I jay-walk. When buying grapes I might try a few before I pay for them.
In fact I scoff at the notion that someone say what I can and cannot do…
I can see the logic but it is elementary.
Do you ever speed in a car?
I never said what Papp or Pulla did is right.
What I was responding to was the comment that they couldnt’ enjoy what they “achieved” because they were cheating. And I don’t think that’s true. You can ask them. Or read Papp’s interviews. In one of the races in which he was doped to the gills he still maintains he “should” have won.
He has a different moral standard (which is wrong) but we shouldn’t claim he didn’t enjoy winning because he was doping. Read the recent Sinkewitz interviews for similar attitudes.
I offer no excuses for their behaviour. I’m saying a lot of people understand it.
I have to quote Daniel here.
“What you are offering is an excuse for weak!”
My six year old son is NOT a follower. He doesn’t care what other people are doing, he’s moving to the beat of his own drum.
That goes double for me…
Well said Daniel. Now be prepared to get lectured by Professor Tomlinson.
20 years ago I knew some guys who were doing steroids and lifting so they would look good on the beach during spring break!
Some people are nuts.
IMO there are guys in every Cat doing stuff. Masters also. Not many but they are out there.
Rarely do I post here, but this deserves an answer.
I believe, that I reached the level in the sport, where I’m racing against people who are not only working very hard, are more talented, but also use doping to get an edge. In fact I know that.
Should I quit? Should I start doping? No!
I decided to train hard, stay honest, and follow the rules, that we all agreed to follow (by requesting a license) and enjoy whatever little success I can get.
It is a very simple choice.
It’s called integrity.
What you are offering is an excuse for weak!
If your six grade son believed, right or wrong, that someone he’s up against is cheating, what would he do? If he was cheating, and though everyone else was cheating, would he just quit because the sport was no fun?
They have a World Team Roster… Too Funny. Lisbon no longer on Empire?
I have to agree with you on the everyone cheats cheats point but come on….my six year old son knows when he isn’t playing honest….
Does not feel guilty to this very day, as the poster of him winning doped is hanging in his bikes shop!!! ….., but he is such a nice guy.
Sommerville Sports World team update:
5 riders attending Veulta Zulia in Marcaibo area of Venezeula.
Roster:
Matt Hanson
Emile Abraham
Lisbon Quintero
Andrew Lansky
David Sommerville
Results so far:
4th place Stage 2
Team has Sprint Jersey for stage 2 and tommorows 3a. (double stage day)
Fast, hot, lots of potholes.
8 flats, 1 crash in 2 days of racing.
2 team bikes didnt show up, nor did most of our water bottles.
Perfecting our tan lines..
best,
David Sommerville
Director Sportif
Sommerville Sports
I’m not defending doping, but so many of us cheat some aspect of life. And it’s not that hard to rationalize if you believe other people are doing it.
What Pulla and Papp did was way wrong, but I don’t think they believed they were cheaters. I’m sure Papp didn’t.
Cheating is fun.
I do shots fo Jack Daniels to increse my Testosterone levels before a race. Is this cheating?
I take Enzyte and that stuff that makes you piss less often when you’re with your mates driving around in a convertible.
How much fun can it be when you know that deep down inside your a cheater. You really didn’t win. Everyone that pats you on the back and congratulates you have been duped. You have lied to all your friends and peers and they believed in you.
I can’t belive that anyone would stoop so low just to win at some mediocre race.
Just put in more base miles and believe in yourself loser WTF…
I can’t take the pressure – I admit it I am a doper. I feel real guilty about it but the dream if winning a PP race is just so important that I can’t stop until I reach my goal
thanks for the USAC pro team rules. That wasnt the point.
how much does a journeyman pro cyclist make?
UCI has strict classifications of Pro Teams.
Classifications are
1.Pro Tour – limited to 20 teams
2.Professional Continental
3.Continental
Professional Continental teams have minimum salary of 25,000 Euros per rider.
Number of teams in Continental categories is limitied by country. for example the US can have only 15 (need to lookup exact number and it changes every year) Continental teams. Not sure how many Professional Continental teams.
Last year HealthNet, Navigators and Slipstream were Pro Continental.
Continental teams do not have a minimum salary.
If someone knows of a doping product that will make my femurs longer, please let me know offline.
If you qualify a pro team by a “team that was in it for the money”, then you could classify pretty much every elite amateur team as pro.
Uh yeah, I think that point has been made abundantly clear.
there are some locals who have actually been caught no one needs to name names, they did a good job of it themselves
Gran fondo teams aren’t real pro teams, thats typically where guys that got caught doping go to make money after they were canned.
Papp can rub people the wrong way, he still managed to win some big races, and in the end thats usually what gets you noticed….I don’t think it was his attitude that held him back, he did ride for that team in Italy after all…….
for real.
Always wanting something….how about upgrade points so you can race with the big boys and then maybe get some prize money?
Yeah my dream is to viewed as a real competitor in the Floyd Bennett B Field Series. That would be sweet!
Whats your point? Regardless of the temptations, and how they’ve given up the the rest of their lives to chase a dream that in all probability wont come true, and we should somehow sympathize as to how easy it would be to dope to get that extra edge….I don’t see how that should matter. You dope as an amateur, you won’t make it as a pro, cause you’ll be doping just to sit in. Guys that move on to the pro ranks are the real deal, and are naturally better than the rest of us. Doping as an amateur makes little sense. Pro teams won’t touch you. Look at Papp.
more like 97%
I agree. And stop giving out prize money to 3s, 4s and 5s.
for real.
I would rather get free swag then $25 for a 3rd place or even a trophy.
You clearly missed the point. First, people at the Cat3-5 level should race because they enjoy it – Which I do. Second, I finish maily in the pack in crits and in the top 30-15 in the hilly races. I guess I dont have the lungs or the legs to get to the next level which is fine by me. But to say I should reconsider racing because I am not winning or getting top 10s in the Cat 3s is crazy. With that thinking 85% of all racers should quit.
ok, wait and see my friend.
you think ego has nothing to do with pro doping?
Do you know someone who’s whole world revolves around cycling? I think we all do. They literally eat, sleep, and live cycling. The are not probably not married, they don’t have kids. They probably structure their work life (or lack thereof) around the sport, have few or no significant relationships with non-cyclists, and derive all of their self-worth from their on-bike performances. They train very hard and live like monks. They might not ever win, even at the amateur level, but they still take it as seriously as most pros do. An immediate and significant jump in performance and results would be for these people the answer to their prayers. It is very easy to imagine how tempting these folks would find EPO, HGH, roids, whatever. To be seen as a serious competitor in their field would be like a dream come true for them. Many would not be able to resist the temptation to actualize these dreams.
i know. seriously.. i can’t point to one single nyc rider who wins all the time with dominating, eye opening performance.
who is doping locally? this is a myth.
its funny how people of this web sitre strikeout to hurt then never put ther names ken kick ther asses over and over
non pro doping is all ego.
you and i don’t see the risk/reward benefit of doping. which is probably why you don’t, and definitely why i don’t. but ask yourself this… if you were already sacrificing family, job and standard of living to be a “full time” racer… wouldn’t your long term health be a minor addition to that list?
finishing mid pack in a cat 3 race in cp or pp has nothing to do with doping. talk to me about finishing solo at mount holly or univest and then we can have a discussion about doping.
If you’re truly slaving away year round and getting mid-pack in a cat 3 race either you’re doing something very wrong or you should perhaps reconsider racing at all.
Both I’d say.
Part of the problem is that it is so prevalent that at a certain point people feel they need something just to feel competitive, its a self-sustaining system. You’re right, it doesn’t make sense, but its not a question of logic. And considering this site kisses the feet of those that win regularly, do you really have to wonder why people would want to win? Nobody wants to be a loser.
So this explains my complete lack of form throughout the season. Killing myself day in and day out early in the morning and hours on the trainer in the winter to continue to arive mid pack in all Cat 3 races. Or am I just slow. Probably the latter.
If there are any locals doping my question would be why? Even the top racers in NYC probably only make a couple grand in prize money a year at most. Factor in expenses associated with travel and equipement its probobly a wash. I would think the cost of doping (both physically and financially)would far outweigh any potential winnings. Or is it purely an ego thing. If locals are doping to win the PP series or bigger regional races like Jiminy Peak or Battenkille then thats seriously sad because maybe only 1% of the local racers move on to a real pro team (Wamsley made it to Navigators after racing for Colavita Juniors). Whats the deal?
and considering it costs 200-400 bucks a set of tests, I’m not so sure USADA is gonna do that pro bono, or are you gonna drop the coin for all the tests? Why do you think everyone gets away with it now, no one wants to pay for the tests to get done, even at bigger races.
planned testing windows don’t catch anyone but the incredibly stupid or incredibly uninformed. don’t you read dopingnews (cyclingnews?)
Guilt by dissociation?
Is on Nov. 17 – 18
How about all local riders, including nearby NJ teams, voluntarily submit to dope tests in March and June. Just for kicks. To see who isn’t willing to do it. And who pops a positive.
his feet.
And some smaller fun cross races
Rosendale, Augusta – Bring on the mud, sand and rain!
This thread reminded me why I look at this site about omce a month now.
yeah masters. fabulous. I’m pretty sure masters a few notches below elite.
I don’t know what a trackie is but Ken Harris is one of the top Master’s track riders in the country proven by his results in the National Championships. A gold , a silver and several more top 10 finishes.
old school trackies don’t wear socks.. is that harris guy a trackie??
how did my post get erased before but this blatant accusation of mengoni is allowed to stay?!
it beats working
WOAH, hold up, who ever said bike racing was fun? You’re in the wrong sport my friend.
ooooooooh yeah? WHO AM I?
Believe it or not, a lot of guys do this for fun and fitness. A team makes it more so.
7:03 we know who you are
So you’re a hater if you think cheating is wrong. Moronic. Or Moranic. You decide.
anyone? any teams go away?
Thanks for giving us the “scoop”!
whats up with all this gay love for affinity? its like 4 guys, and one of em is decent….yeah they tried, I’m pretty sure everyone tries, doesn’t mean you’re any good does it?
I don’t see how thats bitter, if you feel that the truth is somehow cynical thats your own problem. and no, I’m not one of the masses that fills in the middle of the pack…..
DOPERS WILL ALWAYS SUCK.
So will haters
If he wins many races in 2008 he will always be under suspicion by his competitors and USA Cycling. Basically he will never win either way so who cares.
yeah, no comment on mengoni…
are you one of the 15-20 or a one of us jackass’?
Bitterness points to J-ass.
Heres the scoop. It doesn’t matter who’s going where, its always the same 15 or 20 guys duking it out all season long, and bunch of jackasses getting in the way. Theres very little real teamwork going on anywhere in a 50 mile radius. So basically theres no need to come on and anonymously post how great your “team” is going to be next year, cause it doesn’t matter. Just cause you have the same kit as the guy next to you doesn’t mean you’re teammates.
mx to adler
Adler picked up some top-shelf recruits.
He’s a super nice guy. So he’s super competitive; so what. I’m not condoning what he did but come on….isn’t being suspended wack enough. What about the fact that EVERYBODY knows….
Hot Lunch.
the cool thing about those guys is that they are enterprising and trying. So many times in prospect if things didn’t go right for them they’d try to take control of the race. They did not have the horsepower (not a diss, just a comment) but they tried. Very cool team in the way they ride.
not entirely true. some teams, especially at the masters level, ride well together…global locate, axis etc. mengoni certainly does. other teams function more like clubs so that’s ok too.
yeah somehow i seriously doubt that.
seriously i love making fun. but my bike doesn’t fit either.
Some down hill skiiers dont wear sox b/c they say it gives them a better feel for the snow when arching a turn. Maybe Ken Feels it puts him closer to the pedal and the feel of the road?
maybe his shoes dont fit with socks on, I mean, nothing else he has fits right.
Jelly Donut.
I wish ken harris would wear socks. creeps me out.
what goes on inside his shoes?
Dont know the whole team but they are not all friendly.
The only good pick up Affinity got (on and off the bike) was Arjan and Karl R.
1. Rape – almost never funny – the funny felony is larceny
2. Larry Craig – sooo played out
3. Adler rode a smart race
….atlhough sounds a tad bitter, hit the nail right on the head. Just race unattached…it’s basically what most of us are doing anyways. This way you can pick your favorite shiny colors for your kit, and vary it from race to race.
would you paleeeeeaaasse stop it with the “team of the future”
you know how many “really strong cat 3” riders there are that fizzle out and never make it to cat 2?
you know how many cat 2’s never make it to cat 1?
there will be the SAME FACES winning races this year as there was last year. with the addition of MELITO because he’s back and he looks mean as shi*. he looks ready to go Tom Brady on our asses.
so stop. you don’t go from a collection of 3’s to a good 1/2 team without paying some talent to move over to your squad. just doesn’t happen. there just isn’t enough talent to go around.
That Puja is back in the field. Another f…ing junkie riding around, great! What the hell are the chances that he is going to be clean this time around.
cero
slim to none?
And you can quote me on that. And I’m even going to sign this.
comparing Empire and Adler?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tb2Pzl1U0sY
I was comparing empire to adler. but apparently dad didnt like it. both a bunch of clowns
Heres the scoop. It doesn’t matter who’s going where, its always the same 15 or 20 guys duking it out all season long, and bunch of jackasses getting in the way. Theres very little real teamwork going on anywhere in a 50 mile radius. So basically theres no need to come on and anonymously post how great your “team” is going to be next year, cause it doesn’t matter. Just cause you have the same kit as the guy next to you doesn’t mean you’re teammates.
1:18 – hahahhahah
1:59 – dude, relax. it’s a joke, and it’s hilarious. if it weren’t a joke, it definitely would not be funny.
jesus, get rashad’s balls out of your mouth for one minute.
i was joking with the “three” comment. i’ll give you there might be 15.
why do you want to have everyone on the same team? chain gang?
Affinity is definitely a team for the future. They got there feet wet this season, and picked up some great riders on the road and track for 2008. they’re going to be a strong team, and they’re all great guys.
There are other parks. Doesn’t need to be CP.
I think we will all suck. Lets be honest, no ones any good around here.
All Three of them – are you crazy. Look at the results of the last 10 races and there are racers from BVF, Razorfish, DC Racing, Empire, Adler, CRCA Juniors, REMAX the list goes on and on. But I guess for the roadie snobs why race cross if you cant yell pedal faster in the pack to end up finishing in the pack.
More risk than opportunity to make money on it, so you won’t see an individual promoter do it. Seems to be lack of interest in CRCA from membership and leadership so I wouldn’t expect anything there.
Ha ha, rape. Really funny.
The level of comments just gets worse and worse on here.
not literal rape
Would be cool to get all the crossers in NYC to form a Cross only team.
We need a Central Park Cross Race
CX race in CP. Good luck getting permitted for that.
you mean all 3 of them?
you guys are all losers
you guys are all angry pirates.
Are there going to be CRCA elections this year?
The bridle path around the reservoir connected to the 100th St traverse. No horses anymore in CP and no grass/lawn involved.
Ugli damaged me with butt rape.
Bandit will be back next year. No changes in the line up (assuming we line up).
Most of us ended the season early to focus on drinking and travel.
with their fondness for beer and greasy pizza
i don’t see them doing ANY “damage” in the 1/2 field. no offense, but simply HAVING a couple of 2’s on the team doesn’t mean they can beat all the other 2’s, the 1’s, a pro and 35 cat 3’s sitting in and waiting to butt rape them in the sprint (Ugly?).
just sayin’… it takes more than a sticker on your license to “do damage”
And Roesler’ll be a 2 soon enough.
Does one even get on a team these days? Just wait to be asked after showing you got some skills?
is like the Jacksons without Michael or Van Halen post DLR.
rashad hasn’t moved to adler, then?
Should have a good Cat 3 team –
Chaput and
Karl Roesler is a super strong sprinter
Is Ben Showman racing for Affinity. Hes very strong.
Has Arjan Planting on board for next season, so they have at least two guys who’ll be competitive in the 1/2 fields, at least locally.
haven’t seen any of them training at PP really yet this season. sommerville guys were working it hard past weekend…
who besides rashad does any damage in affinity?
Translation needed. What are you talking about?
He was talking about Raymond Cipollini the Former Owner Of Navigators?
Not sure if he is the former owner I though Ed Beamon was. Eitherway those two had a falling out and once Ray left the team went downhill in terms of its relationship with sponsors. His open letter on doping was very good. See Velonews
Yea that makes sense. Its such a shame that a guy that wrote such an eloquent and spot on open letter on the concerns of doping in cycling, fell on the sword. It just stinks. I hope we havent heard the last of R.C.
Those guys are all Aussies and Eastern Euros so they will be either racing on Toyota, Healthnet etc or going back over the pond. You can ride with Marty Nothstein in the Derby training ride though or at Ttown.
Hey what happen to the Bandits didn’t see them alot the last part or the season and Blue Ribbon ?
No newsletters, no communication, no elections and sometimes no races.
CRCA bylaws.
Section 7. Election of Officers. Nominations for each elective office in accordance with Article III, Section 3, will be accepted from the floor beginning at the September membership meeting, and will be closed at the October membership meeting. All nominations are subject to seconding and to the nominee
Any ex-navigators lining up to race around here, I wonder?
Updating the Bob Loblaw Law Blog right now.
I want on a cyclocross specific team!
Where is Bob Loblaw when you need him?
I think that team is cool and strong and do not mean to talk down on them. I just do not think they have anyone who can really hang in a Pro1-2 field in races like Bear, Battenkill etc. I hope I am wrong b/c I like the team.
I think Affinity will be stronger than you think. I could be wrong.
Where is Bob Loblaw when you need him?
Who’s coming? Who’s going?
In NYC – Cat 3 team – Adler with some strong new additions
Cat 1-2 Teams – Mengoni of course, Empire and Affinity for local races only (PP and CP). I dont see the Affinity guys hanging in the Cat1-2 Regional races. Maybe Sommerville’s team will have some success but those guys just seem way to serious.
Outside NYC – Westwood and Conn Coast will be racing in the 2s this year.
We have cycling news
where are all these cats landing? ray alba scurrying around picking them up?
who’s going to be on Hey robot team
With Merrill posting record losses will they cutoff the “cycling team”?
Kio-Ene-DMT has added Italians Fabio Sacchi and Salvatore Commesso to its line-up for 2008 according to La Gazzetta dello Sport. The Italian Continental Italian team of Marino Basso has also confirmed Mattia Gavazzi for an additional two years and is expecting the signature of Serhiy Honchar.
33 year-old Sacchi leaves the side of Alessandro Petacchi, who he has led-out for the past four years, including the last two years at ProTour Team Milram. He started his career in 1997 at Team Polti. 32 year-old Commesso leaves Professional Continental Tinkoff Credit Systems, where he rode during the 2007 season. He started his career with Saeco in 1998, riding alongside Sacchi during the seasons 2001 through 2003. (For more on Commesso read Finding support in Tinkoff.)
What team will kick ass next year?
Has anybody heard of Borah Cycling Team?
Hey!Robot!
Empire Cycling Team & Affinity