Section head text.
By now it’s commonplace to see racers with not only power meters, but also with coaches and time trial bikes and finely honed positions acquired through wind tunnels; but the questions is: does anyone out there sleep in an altitude tent? Has anyone breached that final training frontier and put the blow up room in their bedroom? And why is it taboo to admit having a tent? It is legal, after all. And if so, do they convince their non-racing spouse to join them in the tent? I also have so many questions about the tents. Do you have to wipe down the inside? If the motor breaks, do you suffocate? How do you deal with “dutch over” situations?Â
i have two tents. one for the bedroom and oen for the gaming room
under a tent, but that quickly goes away after I pee…
i pitch my tent in the park. problem is, the joggers and dog people want to kick me out.
there are portable machines as well as breathing training devices for ery reasonable costs, cheaper than “aero” equipment: wheels, bars, frames, helmets… plus with a O2 saturation finger clip you can “dose” your effort…If you have 20-60 min a day you can “live high, train low” and get better sleep.
I used the altipower a few seasons back, I don’t know if it worked.
bahahhaha dutch oven also known as clam bake
westwood velo has an altitude contraption
I keep my gimp in my tent
auto-erotic asphyxiation.
i pitch a tent when i go to redtube.com
to smoke cigarettes so simulate high altitude/low O2 situations. Occasionally I’ll smoke pot to “Live High, train low”. I’m competitive locally so it seems to work pretty well.
who in NYC would even have room for a tent.
smoking pot argument would be more interesting. use a vaporizer in your altitude tent!
I used altipower as well, it works in the sense that it certainly lowers your o2 level in your blood, but it is pretty cumbersome…I am contemplating getting a machine, and using the mask. The tent is a no go, wife wouldn’t like that, can see my daughter and son wanting to camp out every night in our room…but the mask, for that one hour at night I am alone watching TV, sort of can justify that. My friend just took 11th ina half marathon, only kenyans beat him, he uses the tent….swears by it. Just wish I could get a unit on ebay and keep it cheap.
Im sitting in my office tent right now. My co-workers think its strange, but I ignore them ’cause if it helps me hang with the pack in the park this sat, its all worth it. I think its gonna help raise my USCF national ranking pretty quick.
Help! Motor just broke again. Maybe IT guy is standing on my air line! Somebody send help. Air getting thin…
nyvelocity has forgotten its core mission: to provide photos of amateur bike racers suffering in the city’s various parks and abandoned air strips.
A few years ago Alberto Salazar was running a program for elite runners and they were all living in an altitude tent. After a few of them started getting nosebleeds they realized the calibration was off, it was set for 11,000 feet instead of 5,000.
I don’t think that can happen with the kind you set up in your bedroom though.
my tents bigger than yours
Nike
having no room is an advantage. if you live in a 300 sq ft studio, you could just have the whole place done for the low, low price of a few hundred grand. me, i just ride the rollers with a pillow belted over my face. plus, i live on the 11th floor, so i figure that’s at least 8-10 hours a day at 100+ ft.
Spiro-Tiger
http://www.altolab-usa.com/
As a swimmer in college we did hypoxic drills– sprinting on the surface without taking a breath or swimming underwater for multiple laps to the point of passing out. Over time I was able to swim longer without taking a breath. Do cyclists or other endurance athletes train using this technique?
Here’s the Versus doping commercial:
http://www.versus.com/tdf/
First off, most people who use tents sleep at around 9000 feet (about 14.8% O2), not 5000 feet. Home tent machines usually go up to about 12,000 feet. Most who use sleep systems buy a pulse oximeter to measure blood oxygen saturation. Normal at sea level is 98 to 99%. Most people aim to sleep with blood saturation in the low 90s.
I have a Hypoxico system/cubicle that I sleep in. Anyone looking to do this should know a few things. The machine uses about the electricity of an air conditioner, so its not so cheap to run. It also outputs air at least 10 to 15 degrees above the ambient room temperature. In the winter, its usually sufficient to keep the bedroom window open to make the room cold enough to make it cool enough in the cubicle to sleep, but by spring, I have to have the air conditioner on to keep it cool enough in the room to sleep in the cubicle. I rented the tent at first to see whether I could sleep in it or not, but found the tent too claustrophobic and when I bought it, I bought the cubicle which fits a double bed with enough room next to it for a small night stand. Because of the additional size of the cubicle, it takes at least 2 hours of running the machine to get the air to around 9000 feet.
Does it work? Well, that’s difficult to say, but before using the tent my hematorcrit ranged from 45 to 48 over 3-4 years of blood tests and after a year of sleeping in the tent my last blood work I had a hematocrit of 50.6.
Are there any pictures of the CRCA A race.
A year of sleeping in tent for 4 points….tough call, would be fun to mop up some guys that usually beat you, but seems like a lot of work
Anyone who has one of these tents to do CP and PP races (or other amateur races) is an idiot.
Speak for yourself. It gets me off the front just long enough to have Andy take my pic in CP. That makes it all worthwhile…
you can get machines that go way above 12,000 ft if you want. They do work, they aren’t cheap. next.
Anyone who judges others to be idiots without trying to understand their reasons for making certain decisions is the idiot.
I’m not winning races. In fact, by racing standards, I’m old and slow. My reason for buying the system a few years ago was very personal. I’ve never been able to compete at endurance sports my entire life (guess I picked the wrong parents), but always loved them. I was able to afford it (read paid credit card off that month for the 6 grand purchase, didn’t carry the debt) and didn’t get it to get an edge over the competition, but to be able to just hang with the competition.
I’m still not winning races. I did it just to be able to participate in something I loved and had never been able to do successfully since childhood.
12,000 feet are for interval breathing while awake, not for sleeping. The Hypoxico machine has an available attachment that allows for this. Most people who use the systems for sleep use between 8 and 10,0000 feet.
your hematocrit is 45-48 and you bought a tent? most protour riders are lower. there are good local riders with hematocrit in the 30s.
is in tents
Your right and that shows that hematocrit is not a very good predictor of performance. It is however involved and an easy thing to measure to see if anything is happening. Other processes in the oxygen delivery system that altitude positively influences that affect performance are not so easy to measure.
You are an idiot.
I really don’t care what you think.
I like pancakes.
If anyone here hasn’t seen Bigger, Faster, Stronger yet, they should. It is a movie about steriod use in the good ‘old U.S of A.
Floyd has his own segment in the movie, where he talks about his oxygen tent training. Very interesting stuff.
So, there are 4 ways to boost your hematocrit or red blood cell count.
1) Sleep in an altitude tent or chamber
2) Train high, live low
3) Take Epogen
4) Have a blood transfusion
Two of these options are illegal, or banned by various sports organisations for athletes in competition, two of them are not.
We should ask ourselves why is it socially or morally acceptable to use two means to reach the same end, but not the other two?
Sorry – I meant to say 4 ways to win
I do most of my endurance riding with one of those gimp balls in my mouth
the full faced leather Gimp mask with the mouth zipper closed is actually a little better training for local park racing.
Agreed, but another way to say it is that 2 of those 4 methods can kill you – (especially if you’re young, Dutch and stupid) – I know, I know, a doctor can help you take just the right amount of EPO or make sure your blood is handled safely but as with steroids in little baseball or wrestling – people will always take 3 times as much as they should because if one pill make you huge 3 must make you giant etc…
I just purchased a chuff simulator and am contemplating selling them through my catalog. Anyone else try one yet? I think its even better that the Hypoxico except for the fact that you have to wipe it down more.
Are any of JFT or Coach L’s riders using the CF? Curious what the top coaches are doing.
Do people think Fabian is juiced? If yes, how does he get around tests by Dr Dmasgaaard ?
cranky, I believe its train low, live high. As you recover most and produce red blood cells when sleeping….etc.
They get around the tests now because all the pro tour teams have “anti-doping” tests within the team. Doctors that can make sure they don’t get caught. pro doping.
approximately 3 deaths per year are attributable to steroid use. epogen is hazzardous if admnistered improperly for sure. the point is that they all have exactly the same effcet on athletic performance.
I’ve been using a 2′ glass lung that I bought down in the west village. I have no idea if I’m any faster as a result, but I’ve been getting stoned to the bejesus.
roids and epo don’t have exactly the same effect. Generally, they can improve performance yes, but they ways in which they do it are quite different.
so, what if someone is racing on the next Ephedra, only before the USADA decides it is a banned substance? is that guy cheating or doping?
If it is not banned. It is not cheating. No post facto drugies. That is my view. cheating is different than innovation.
Where do guys get steroids?
Lets take inhalers, for example. Say Albuterol to be specific. Albuteral is a banned substance, UNLESS you have doctor’s recomendation that you need if for a medical condition, like sports induced asthma.
Well, shocking news – something like 40% of the Protour riders have albuterol prescribed for sports induced asthma. It is a bronchial dialator and inhaleable steroid.
I wonder if that would help your performance? Poor Petacchi just happened to take a few too many puffs and has been booted from competition for 2 years.
Before the Club race I saw someone hit thier inhaler 3 times before the race. Yeah, his asthma was acting up…
Peeps, open your eyes…
Slipstream, CSC et al (maybe even Astana’s) efforts might be honest. But one has to wonder if testing your own team can work in the long run.
The conflict is huge.
do they really want to put an end to doping through self-testing, or do they just want to send the public message they they are anti-doping? sounds like a ploy for publicity.
This is not a joke. I successfully raised my hematocrit 20% by training on a subway platform. I can’t tell you which one, because it is my competitive advantage. But one of the subway platforms in the city is very low on oxygen and perfectly simulates high altidude training. Because of a mistake made by engineers who built the station, the air pressure is actually lower there, too, simulating 9,000 feet of elevation. I bring my trainer down there and train for hours. There are some side effects that I won’t go in to, but my hematocrit is close to 50.
There is no clear consensuses on the use of Albuterol by non-asthmatic athletes. Some studies suggest a possible, but negligible pulmonary gain, while other studies suggest no gain/effect vs placebo.
right, thats gotta be true, cause why would euro pros ever take anything that had no performance gains? its not the inhaler they are yearning for, its the masking effect. as it is a steriod, you’ll test pos for the juice, free reign with the injectables dude. keep puffin retard.
WHY bring up a tent argument, as you know it’ll turn into a dope argument? Are you hurting that badly for ideas? Chat about how 3/4s got schooled at floyd by Just For Men’s Great Looking Grey spokesperson.
Tent, EPO, roids, the Gimp mask, vitamin C suppositories, supplement of the week at GNC… Anything that someone does to gain a performance advantage that everyone else is not using at the same time can be considered cheating, right? I gained 8 watts by adding those Lemond cleat wedge thingys to my shoes this week, am I cheating?
It is such a grey area that is seems a little bit ridiculous for us to pass judgement on those who are caught using a banned performance enhancing substance that has the same effect as several other legal performance enhancing substances.
my tent goes up to 30,000 ft. i usually run it on 28,200.
138 starters at FBF! is that a record?
Not really true. All the drugs that actually work are banned. There’s a whole bunch of shit out there that sorta works. Alti tents will increase your numbers, but to a natural limit. The only EPO limit is death.
Its amazing that guys get all fired up about dudes that use drugs even though they never see the front of a race to really see what the drugs do. When you’re battling weekly with the doped it looks pretty enticing.
Or is Marco channeling Woody Allen in the pic to the right? Also, why didn’t we buy him a tent instead of a silly bike?
Good fun at FBF last night.
its just you.
i used to have one but all my ladies was gettin winded
Hahah. Nice. So that would that increased performance be equally offset by the steel brake dusk, hearing loss, bum pee on your legs, and possibility of physical attack? I saw CRCA coaching sessions should now be year round, with winter sessions down deep! Sweet idea.
Hey Shaw, can we do a Tour watching party in your tent this July? Get some big O2 intake while watching the dopers roll around France? Niiiice.
What the eff is a Chuff Simulator?
I think if I went to the trouble of using a tent and inhaler and all that crap and still didnt win all the local races (or any of them), I might just ride myself into a brick wall full speed. No thanks. Ill leave that shit to the pros who need to keep up with the best every week, not you fools who I can happily mix it up with without any added help.
is there less O2 if i sleep with the blanket pulled over my head? or better still if i fart?
You’re going to have to Urban Dictionary that yourself, rubber neck.
I can’t believe you guys pay thousands of dollars to get some dumb effing tent to help you get 23rd in a master’s race. That to me is the definition of an idiot and a shitty athlete.
“As for determining whether you are a responder/comfortable with sleeping at altitude, first, my understanding from talking to some people and reading when I first bought the unit is that some people have performance responses even though their hematocrit doesn’t rise significantly.”
Yes, it is called the placebo effect.
damn … why so angry, grinch? That kind of freakish dedication to the addiction makes the rest of us seem semi-normal. Plus dude seems happy with what he got for his $
before calling people idiots and assuming a placebo effect, it may be useful to recognize that the human bodie’s response to hypoxic environments is not limited to an increase in hematopoesis. the body also increases the red blood cell concentration of 2,3-bisphosphoglicerate. 2,3-BPG is an important mediator of hemoglobin-oxygen binding affinity. More 2,3-BPG allows for lower binding affinity => more efficient unloading of oxygen at the tissues. The most common adaptation to high altitude is actually an elevated 2,3-BPG level. It is conceivable, then, that physiologically beneficial changes are possible despite a static hematocrit. i am not trying to claim that this means that altitude tents work, but that looking solely at hematocrit ignores other important contributing factors to oxygen transport and delivery in the blood.
OMG! Colin P isn’t just fast, he is smart. Hunk alert!
a few of the palightnight guys sleep in them.
sleep in the tent, they should find a new hobby, ’cause if I ever saw hugely over rated team it’s them. Look at Tour of Pa results.
if he’s smart why can’t he spell “body”?
http://www.bikereg.com/events/ConfList.asp?EventID=6574
hey colin dude thanks for the long boring post but less typing and more upgrading pls
in space, no one can hear you scream
in project mayhem, we have no names
there’s no way to edit posts, is there? I was hoping nobody would notice my mix-up of bodies and body’s. Also, for the record, I find physiology less boring than being flamed anonymously (its all in fun, right?).
Holy Crap. Colin P sounds like a *real* doctor. Go Dr. P. If you arent a Dr., then you are spending way too much time learning about your blood. Hmmm. Personally, the psych benefits of a comfortable “seat” far outweigh this lame blood discussion. Happy ass makes a happy rider makes a competitive rider.
Yeah, go suck on a sandbag!
You may not see an increase in HCT with a tent, but most likely will see an increase in blood volume, which in turn will give you more red blood cells than you had before. Any good bike-nerd would know this. Your buddy still wasted his money for using it to win Cat 3 races. I’m telling you, Camel Unfiltered is still the way to go for altitude training. Just do hill repeats on Perkins and light up at the top each time. It’s like summiting Everest.
Colin P isn’t even a real chiropractor!
just sayin…
one of the major jobs of the kidney is to keep blood volume constant. if the blood volume is elevated (from drinking water, transfusions, IV drips, etc), the kidney excretes the excess volume in the urine.
what should it be to induce Hct adapt? Now I know what those tubes were attached to those Camel Unfiltered Throat Breathers!!!
You also misspelled “bisphosphoglycerate.” In light of your two spelling errors I’m going to give you an A-. Good work, but proofread next time for the A!
I heard ADM had been seeing Dr. W O’D – his files are code-named “The Jug” which we all know is another fine offering from Bandit’s lead sponsor.
Here’s to you kidneys. Blood volume increases slowly over time at altitude as you adapt to the new situation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15895317?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
Another great way to get altitude training is to hook up a pipe from the exhaust of a car, linking it to your training room. Then do intervals.
(please don’t actually follow this advice)
ah, plasma volume stays constant but RBC intracellular volume increases-got it. can we please start talking about metabolic acidosis induced by altitude, too? What about if I just hold my breath going up Harlem Hill REALLY hard?
why you gotta bust on mr logical? I have won races, many in fact. eat it mr 160bmp blowout.
Now would you spend any money as a cat 3 on an altitude tent? First and foremost, you’re a cat 3. If you’ve already started to stretch your potential with outside help, you should probably stop and re-evaluate bike racing. What are you gonna do if you do get your upgrade and now you’re racing P1/2 races, and you’ve essentially maxed out your potential before even getting there? P1/2 races are FAR harder than a 3 race. Think about it.
How about, you train hard and see how far that takes you before you drop money on ultra high end shit.
Also, If this guy was a winning cat 3, he would be a 2 already. Its like you’re his mom, telling him no matter what he’s a winner.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/sports/olympics/26doping.html?ref=sports
He IS a winner – you don’t even know
judging by his purchase, I think not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uayowbYqvZA&feature=user_
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races08/tdf08/retro-hautacam.jpg
Martian soil appears able to support life
“We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the nutrients, to support life whether past present or future.”
Inhaled steroids= glucocorticoid
injected steroids= anabolic steroids
Two completely different things and unrelated in testing
riiiight.
corticosteroids and anabolic steroids aren’t the same, you’re right. But both are used by cyclists. Corticosteroids are used in inhalers. Injected corticosteroids have many uses as well when it comes to performance inhancement. This is what an inhaler masks, not anabolics. Euro pros dont take anabolics, thats so 80s. If anything they take Test.
Thanks again for playing “I don’t know what I’m talking about”
Corticosteroids have no performance enhancement- see comment about studies done on lung function. They decrease inflammation- like Lance used on his butt or open closed “inflammed” airways, but no help in recovery and no help in strength. They might decrease pain after a hard day on the bike, but that won’t make recovery any better. As a matter of fact, prolonged use of high doses of these types of steroids can cause muscle weakness, especially in the proximal muscles of the hips and legs.
Dude. I’m not talking about corticosteroids for lung function. Hence, the “there are other uses.” Guys get a TUE for an inhaler BECAUSE it can mask other corticosteroids, not because they want to open their airways.
Why do you think floyd cracked his hip while strolling back from a gym workout? Then the motherfucker gets a TUE for cortizone for pain when he has the dead hip problem. oh the chips are falling into place….
Its quite clear you really have no knowledge of the subject, so I’d just stop now.
You ain’t gonna find the real information on the web my friend.
but i don’t quite know where you are going with the Floyd thing.
Thats fine. Ya don’t need to. Its better that way.
the cheap and easy solution to everyone’s altitude training needs:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/newsphotos.php?id=/photos/2008/news/jun08/jun27news2Evans/evansstelvio-035
Even cheaper alternative- Ride your fucking bike.
Dutch over situation?
Even cheaper alternative- Ride your fucking bike.
Its quite clear you really have no knowledge of the subject, so I’d just stop now.
You ain’t gonna find the real information on the web my friend.
but i don’t quite know where you are going with the Floyd thing.
Thats fine. Ya don’t need to. Its better that way.
the cheap and easy solution to everyone’s altitude training needs:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/newsphotos.php?id=/photos/2008/news/jun08/jun27news2Evans/evansstelvio-035
Why do you think floyd cracked his hip while strolling back from a gym workout? Then the motherfucker gets a TUE for cortizone for pain when he has the dead hip problem. oh the chips are falling into place….
Dude. I’m not talking about corticosteroids for lung function. Hence, the “there are other uses.” Guys get a TUE for an inhaler BECAUSE it can mask other corticosteroids, not because they want to open their airways.
Corticosteroids have no performance enhancement- see comment about studies done on lung function. They decrease inflammation- like Lance used on his butt or open closed “inflammed” airways, but no help in recovery and no help in strength. They might decrease pain after a hard day on the bike, but that won’t make recovery any better. As a matter of fact, prolonged use of high doses of these types of steroids can cause muscle weakness, especially in the proximal muscles of the hips and legs.
corticosteroids and anabolic steroids aren’t the same, you’re right. But both are used by cyclists. Corticosteroids are used in inhalers. Injected corticosteroids have many uses as well when it comes to performance inhancement. This is what an inhaler masks, not anabolics. Euro pros dont take anabolics, thats so 80s. If anything they take Test.
Thanks again for playing “I don’t know what I’m talking about”
riiiight.
Inhaled steroids= glucocorticoid
injected steroids= anabolic steroids
Two completely different things and unrelated in testing
Martian soil appears able to support life
“We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the nutrients, to support life whether past present or future.”
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races08/tdf08/retro-hautacam.jpg
judging by his purchase, I think not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uayowbYqvZA&feature=user_
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/26/sports/olympics/26doping.html?ref=sports
He IS a winner – you don’t even know
Now would you spend any money as a cat 3 on an altitude tent? First and foremost, you’re a cat 3. If you’ve already started to stretch your potential with outside help, you should probably stop and re-evaluate bike racing. What are you gonna do if you do get your upgrade and now you’re racing P1/2 races, and you’ve essentially maxed out your potential before even getting there? P1/2 races are FAR harder than a 3 race. Think about it.
How about, you train hard and see how far that takes you before you drop money on ultra high end shit.
Also, If this guy was a winning cat 3, he would be a 2 already. Its like you’re his mom, telling him no matter what he’s a winner.
why you gotta bust on mr logical? I have won races, many in fact. eat it mr 160bmp blowout.
ah, plasma volume stays constant but RBC intracellular volume increases-got it. can we please start talking about metabolic acidosis induced by altitude, too? What about if I just hold my breath going up Harlem Hill REALLY hard?
Here’s to you kidneys. Blood volume increases slowly over time at altitude as you adapt to the new situation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15895317?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
Another great way to get altitude training is to hook up a pipe from the exhaust of a car, linking it to your training room. Then do intervals.
(please don’t actually follow this advice)
I heard ADM had been seeing Dr. W O’D – his files are code-named “The Jug” which we all know is another fine offering from Bandit’s lead sponsor.
You also misspelled “bisphosphoglycerate.” In light of your two spelling errors I’m going to give you an A-. Good work, but proofread next time for the A!
what should it be to induce Hct adapt? Now I know what those tubes were attached to those Camel Unfiltered Throat Breathers!!!
Colin P isn’t even a real chiropractor!
just sayin…
one of the major jobs of the kidney is to keep blood volume constant. if the blood volume is elevated (from drinking water, transfusions, IV drips, etc), the kidney excretes the excess volume in the urine.
You may not see an increase in HCT with a tent, but most likely will see an increase in blood volume, which in turn will give you more red blood cells than you had before. Any good bike-nerd would know this. Your buddy still wasted his money for using it to win Cat 3 races. I’m telling you, Camel Unfiltered is still the way to go for altitude training. Just do hill repeats on Perkins and light up at the top each time. It’s like summiting Everest.
Yeah, go suck on a sandbag!
Holy Crap. Colin P sounds like a *real* doctor. Go Dr. P. If you arent a Dr., then you are spending way too much time learning about your blood. Hmmm. Personally, the psych benefits of a comfortable “seat” far outweigh this lame blood discussion. Happy ass makes a happy rider makes a competitive rider.
there’s no way to edit posts, is there? I was hoping nobody would notice my mix-up of bodies and body’s. Also, for the record, I find physiology less boring than being flamed anonymously (its all in fun, right?).
in project mayhem, we have no names
in space, no one can hear you scream
hey colin dude thanks for the long boring post but less typing and more upgrading pls
if he’s smart why can’t he spell “body”?
http://www.bikereg.com/events/ConfList.asp?EventID=6574
sleep in the tent, they should find a new hobby, ’cause if I ever saw hugely over rated team it’s them. Look at Tour of Pa results.
a few of the palightnight guys sleep in them.
OMG! Colin P isn’t just fast, he is smart. Hunk alert!
damn … why so angry, grinch? That kind of freakish dedication to the addiction makes the rest of us seem semi-normal. Plus dude seems happy with what he got for his $
before calling people idiots and assuming a placebo effect, it may be useful to recognize that the human bodie’s response to hypoxic environments is not limited to an increase in hematopoesis. the body also increases the red blood cell concentration of 2,3-bisphosphoglicerate. 2,3-BPG is an important mediator of hemoglobin-oxygen binding affinity. More 2,3-BPG allows for lower binding affinity => more efficient unloading of oxygen at the tissues. The most common adaptation to high altitude is actually an elevated 2,3-BPG level. It is conceivable, then, that physiologically beneficial changes are possible despite a static hematocrit. i am not trying to claim that this means that altitude tents work, but that looking solely at hematocrit ignores other important contributing factors to oxygen transport and delivery in the blood.
“As for determining whether you are a responder/comfortable with sleeping at altitude, first, my understanding from talking to some people and reading when I first bought the unit is that some people have performance responses even though their hematocrit doesn’t rise significantly.”
Yes, it is called the placebo effect.
I can’t believe you guys pay thousands of dollars to get some dumb effing tent to help you get 23rd in a master’s race. That to me is the definition of an idiot and a shitty athlete.
You’re going to have to Urban Dictionary that yourself, rubber neck.
is there less O2 if i sleep with the blanket pulled over my head? or better still if i fart?
I think if I went to the trouble of using a tent and inhaler and all that crap and still didnt win all the local races (or any of them), I might just ride myself into a brick wall full speed. No thanks. Ill leave that shit to the pros who need to keep up with the best every week, not you fools who I can happily mix it up with without any added help.
What the eff is a Chuff Simulator?
Hey Shaw, can we do a Tour watching party in your tent this July? Get some big O2 intake while watching the dopers roll around France? Niiiice.
Hahah. Nice. So that would that increased performance be equally offset by the steel brake dusk, hearing loss, bum pee on your legs, and possibility of physical attack? I saw CRCA coaching sessions should now be year round, with winter sessions down deep! Sweet idea.
its just you.
i used to have one but all my ladies was gettin winded
Or is Marco channeling Woody Allen in the pic to the right? Also, why didn’t we buy him a tent instead of a silly bike?
Good fun at FBF last night.
Not really true. All the drugs that actually work are banned. There’s a whole bunch of shit out there that sorta works. Alti tents will increase your numbers, but to a natural limit. The only EPO limit is death.
Its amazing that guys get all fired up about dudes that use drugs even though they never see the front of a race to really see what the drugs do. When you’re battling weekly with the doped it looks pretty enticing.
my tent goes up to 30,000 ft. i usually run it on 28,200.
138 starters at FBF! is that a record?
Tent, EPO, roids, the Gimp mask, vitamin C suppositories, supplement of the week at GNC… Anything that someone does to gain a performance advantage that everyone else is not using at the same time can be considered cheating, right? I gained 8 watts by adding those Lemond cleat wedge thingys to my shoes this week, am I cheating?
It is such a grey area that is seems a little bit ridiculous for us to pass judgement on those who are caught using a banned performance enhancing substance that has the same effect as several other legal performance enhancing substances.
WHY bring up a tent argument, as you know it’ll turn into a dope argument? Are you hurting that badly for ideas? Chat about how 3/4s got schooled at floyd by Just For Men’s Great Looking Grey spokesperson.
right, thats gotta be true, cause why would euro pros ever take anything that had no performance gains? its not the inhaler they are yearning for, its the masking effect. as it is a steriod, you’ll test pos for the juice, free reign with the injectables dude. keep puffin retard.
There is no clear consensuses on the use of Albuterol by non-asthmatic athletes. Some studies suggest a possible, but negligible pulmonary gain, while other studies suggest no gain/effect vs placebo.
This is not a joke. I successfully raised my hematocrit 20% by training on a subway platform. I can’t tell you which one, because it is my competitive advantage. But one of the subway platforms in the city is very low on oxygen and perfectly simulates high altidude training. Because of a mistake made by engineers who built the station, the air pressure is actually lower there, too, simulating 9,000 feet of elevation. I bring my trainer down there and train for hours. There are some side effects that I won’t go in to, but my hematocrit is close to 50.
do they really want to put an end to doping through self-testing, or do they just want to send the public message they they are anti-doping? sounds like a ploy for publicity.
Peeps, open your eyes…
Slipstream, CSC et al (maybe even Astana’s) efforts might be honest. But one has to wonder if testing your own team can work in the long run.
The conflict is huge.
If it is not banned. It is not cheating. No post facto drugies. That is my view. cheating is different than innovation.
Where do guys get steroids?
Lets take inhalers, for example. Say Albuterol to be specific. Albuteral is a banned substance, UNLESS you have doctor’s recomendation that you need if for a medical condition, like sports induced asthma.
Well, shocking news – something like 40% of the Protour riders have albuterol prescribed for sports induced asthma. It is a bronchial dialator and inhaleable steroid.
I wonder if that would help your performance? Poor Petacchi just happened to take a few too many puffs and has been booted from competition for 2 years.
Before the Club race I saw someone hit thier inhaler 3 times before the race. Yeah, his asthma was acting up…
so, what if someone is racing on the next Ephedra, only before the USADA decides it is a banned substance? is that guy cheating or doping?
roids and epo don’t have exactly the same effect. Generally, they can improve performance yes, but they ways in which they do it are quite different.
approximately 3 deaths per year are attributable to steroid use. epogen is hazzardous if admnistered improperly for sure. the point is that they all have exactly the same effcet on athletic performance.
I’ve been using a 2′ glass lung that I bought down in the west village. I have no idea if I’m any faster as a result, but I’ve been getting stoned to the bejesus.
They get around the tests now because all the pro tour teams have “anti-doping” tests within the team. Doctors that can make sure they don’t get caught. pro doping.
cranky, I believe its train low, live high. As you recover most and produce red blood cells when sleeping….etc.
Do people think Fabian is juiced? If yes, how does he get around tests by Dr Dmasgaaard ?
I just purchased a chuff simulator and am contemplating selling them through my catalog. Anyone else try one yet? I think its even better that the Hypoxico except for the fact that you have to wipe it down more.
Are any of JFT or Coach L’s riders using the CF? Curious what the top coaches are doing.
Agreed, but another way to say it is that 2 of those 4 methods can kill you – (especially if you’re young, Dutch and stupid) – I know, I know, a doctor can help you take just the right amount of EPO or make sure your blood is handled safely but as with steroids in little baseball or wrestling – people will always take 3 times as much as they should because if one pill make you huge 3 must make you giant etc…
I do most of my endurance riding with one of those gimp balls in my mouth
the full faced leather Gimp mask with the mouth zipper closed is actually a little better training for local park racing.
Sorry – I meant to say 4 ways to win
I really don’t care what you think.
I like pancakes.
If anyone here hasn’t seen Bigger, Faster, Stronger yet, they should. It is a movie about steriod use in the good ‘old U.S of A.
Floyd has his own segment in the movie, where he talks about his oxygen tent training. Very interesting stuff.
So, there are 4 ways to boost your hematocrit or red blood cell count.
1) Sleep in an altitude tent or chamber
2) Train high, live low
3) Take Epogen
4) Have a blood transfusion
Two of these options are illegal, or banned by various sports organisations for athletes in competition, two of them are not.
We should ask ourselves why is it socially or morally acceptable to use two means to reach the same end, but not the other two?
You are an idiot.
Your right and that shows that hematocrit is not a very good predictor of performance. It is however involved and an easy thing to measure to see if anything is happening. Other processes in the oxygen delivery system that altitude positively influences that affect performance are not so easy to measure.
your hematocrit is 45-48 and you bought a tent? most protour riders are lower. there are good local riders with hematocrit in the 30s.
is in tents
12,000 feet are for interval breathing while awake, not for sleeping. The Hypoxico machine has an available attachment that allows for this. Most people who use the systems for sleep use between 8 and 10,0000 feet.
Anyone who judges others to be idiots without trying to understand their reasons for making certain decisions is the idiot.
I’m not winning races. In fact, by racing standards, I’m old and slow. My reason for buying the system a few years ago was very personal. I’ve never been able to compete at endurance sports my entire life (guess I picked the wrong parents), but always loved them. I was able to afford it (read paid credit card off that month for the 6 grand purchase, didn’t carry the debt) and didn’t get it to get an edge over the competition, but to be able to just hang with the competition.
I’m still not winning races. I did it just to be able to participate in something I loved and had never been able to do successfully since childhood.
you can get machines that go way above 12,000 ft if you want. They do work, they aren’t cheap. next.
Speak for yourself. It gets me off the front just long enough to have Andy take my pic in CP. That makes it all worthwhile…
Anyone who has one of these tents to do CP and PP races (or other amateur races) is an idiot.
Are there any pictures of the CRCA A race.
A year of sleeping in tent for 4 points….tough call, would be fun to mop up some guys that usually beat you, but seems like a lot of work
Here’s the Versus doping commercial:
http://www.versus.com/tdf/
First off, most people who use tents sleep at around 9000 feet (about 14.8% O2), not 5000 feet. Home tent machines usually go up to about 12,000 feet. Most who use sleep systems buy a pulse oximeter to measure blood oxygen saturation. Normal at sea level is 98 to 99%. Most people aim to sleep with blood saturation in the low 90s.
I have a Hypoxico system/cubicle that I sleep in. Anyone looking to do this should know a few things. The machine uses about the electricity of an air conditioner, so its not so cheap to run. It also outputs air at least 10 to 15 degrees above the ambient room temperature. In the winter, its usually sufficient to keep the bedroom window open to make the room cold enough to make it cool enough in the cubicle to sleep, but by spring, I have to have the air conditioner on to keep it cool enough in the room to sleep in the cubicle. I rented the tent at first to see whether I could sleep in it or not, but found the tent too claustrophobic and when I bought it, I bought the cubicle which fits a double bed with enough room next to it for a small night stand. Because of the additional size of the cubicle, it takes at least 2 hours of running the machine to get the air to around 9000 feet.
Does it work? Well, that’s difficult to say, but before using the tent my hematorcrit ranged from 45 to 48 over 3-4 years of blood tests and after a year of sleeping in the tent my last blood work I had a hematocrit of 50.6.
http://www.altolab-usa.com/
As a swimmer in college we did hypoxic drills– sprinting on the surface without taking a breath or swimming underwater for multiple laps to the point of passing out. Over time I was able to swim longer without taking a breath. Do cyclists or other endurance athletes train using this technique?
Spiro-Tiger
Nike
having no room is an advantage. if you live in a 300 sq ft studio, you could just have the whole place done for the low, low price of a few hundred grand. me, i just ride the rollers with a pillow belted over my face. plus, i live on the 11th floor, so i figure that’s at least 8-10 hours a day at 100+ ft.
my tents bigger than yours
A few years ago Alberto Salazar was running a program for elite runners and they were all living in an altitude tent. After a few of them started getting nosebleeds they realized the calibration was off, it was set for 11,000 feet instead of 5,000.
I don’t think that can happen with the kind you set up in your bedroom though.
Im sitting in my office tent right now. My co-workers think its strange, but I ignore them ’cause if it helps me hang with the pack in the park this sat, its all worth it. I think its gonna help raise my USCF national ranking pretty quick.
Help! Motor just broke again. Maybe IT guy is standing on my air line! Somebody send help. Air getting thin…
nyvelocity has forgotten its core mission: to provide photos of amateur bike racers suffering in the city’s various parks and abandoned air strips.
I used altipower as well, it works in the sense that it certainly lowers your o2 level in your blood, but it is pretty cumbersome…I am contemplating getting a machine, and using the mask. The tent is a no go, wife wouldn’t like that, can see my daughter and son wanting to camp out every night in our room…but the mask, for that one hour at night I am alone watching TV, sort of can justify that. My friend just took 11th ina half marathon, only kenyans beat him, he uses the tent….swears by it. Just wish I could get a unit on ebay and keep it cheap.
who in NYC would even have room for a tent.
smoking pot argument would be more interesting. use a vaporizer in your altitude tent!
to smoke cigarettes so simulate high altitude/low O2 situations. Occasionally I’ll smoke pot to “Live High, train low”. I’m competitive locally so it seems to work pretty well.
auto-erotic asphyxiation.
i pitch a tent when i go to redtube.com
I keep my gimp in my tent
westwood velo has an altitude contraption
bahahhaha dutch oven also known as clam bake
I used the altipower a few seasons back, I don’t know if it worked.
i pitch my tent in the park. problem is, the joggers and dog people want to kick me out.
there are portable machines as well as breathing training devices for ery reasonable costs, cheaper than “aero” equipment: wheels, bars, frames, helmets… plus with a O2 saturation finger clip you can “dose” your effort…If you have 20-60 min a day you can “live high, train low” and get better sleep.
i have two tents. one for the bedroom and oen for the gaming room
under a tent, but that quickly goes away after I pee…