Remember Floyd?
His final arbitration is coming to New York in March. In the meantime, he had a spirited talk with Neal Rogers of Velonews. Landis seems quite peeved, but after the Marion Jones performance — do you buy it? Do you still care?
And here is Andy Shen’s contribution:
Let me play the role of the dewy eyed optimist/sap. If you read the whole interview, Floyd is very persuasive. Just because the lab results are wrapped in the mantle of ‘science’ doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily reliable. Unfortunately, we’re conditioned to believe in science, so the athlete, once tested positive, can never regain his credibility. And that seems wrong to me. Even if Floyd is guilty, he’s doing other athletes a service by forcing the labs to operate at a higher standard in the future.
good luck jft have fun out there
is an experienced soapbox derbyist. I watched him come in first at Harlem Hill.
I’ve seen the douche, and the douche is us
racing what?
http://www.jt10000.com/images/lploppet2005jt4.jpg
Not on bikes, but a similar sport
Have fun yall
You are so on point. I am so bored and I want to battle. I want to bust bubbles and egos. I want to hurt feelings and dispell thoughts of grandeur. AAARARRRRRRRGHHGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
dear god can it come any sooner?
pls save us from ourselves
re-hashed doping threads … classes on logical/critical thinking … double-blind, placebo studies on helmet efficacy … calgone, take me away
Stop then….. i mean, Shut tf up!
I don’t judge for the doping, but please stop the b s
Stop then….. i mean, Shut tf up!
I don’t judge for the doping, but please stop the b s
Neutral support, races start on time, ample bathrooms, decent distances, showers after the race, are signs of a *good* race.
Parking was a little tight at Palmer last year I think.
sounds like it’s just about my kind of race. downhill the whole way.
I think you’ve sold me on it…
9:59 what field were you in at Palmer?
I’ve done that in some masters fields between 5 and 7 times and I think only once has it been a field sprint for first (last year). *Maybe* twice. A guy from CRCA won the p-1-2 a few years ago from a big break where the riders went on the first lap.
It feels like it’s downhill the whole way. The pack stays together the entire race. Not challenging at all. broing
anonymous haters unwilling to sign their name saying floyd acted like a douche. I you cant man-up to diss someone with your own name who is the douche?
Personally, I think it is quite possible and probable he used testosterone.
Funny thing is, if that is all he took, he is still the cleanest Tour winner of the last 10 to 15 years.
Jared is a doper. There is nothing more to his story.
I think there were cops or marshals there to deal with traffic
not a danger spot
Off topic but shows what most motorists probably think of cyclists. Helmet or no, be safe out there.
TUCSON, Arizona (AP) — A judge sentenced a woman to nearly the maximum prison term for negligent homicide after hearing a recorded jail conversation in which she made light of the bicyclist she killed.
Don’t Miss
KGUN: Listen to recording of Arrington’s phone call
Melissa Arrington, 27, was convicted two months ago of negligent homicide and two counts of aggravated DUI in connection with the December 2006 death of Paul L’Ecuyer.
She could have gotten as few as four years behind bars, but Superior Court Judge Michael Cruikshank sentenced her Tuesday to 10
Floyd makes some great points. Specially about the crap that Johnson says didn’t pay attention.
But depending on how you read the interview, he almost admits guilt, it almost reads something like:
— Yeah, perhaps I took some testosterone, but they didn’t prove it. Those tests suck. —
This is why I don’t ride anymore. This, and because I’m lazy.
If you’ve raced enough you’ll know there are situations where the group bottlenecks and sometimes you’re FORCED over the yellow line to avoid things like crashing. Not to advance. This is where you got DQ’d in my situation. Did you do it? Did you do it on purpose? Was it other guys around you? You win the race fairly in your mind and the Ref DQ’s you after. To make it more “Floyd like” he DQ’s you 2 days later. How do you react? More More More Hate Hate Hate.
You absolutely do not need to advance to be dq’d for crossing the line, so be smart and stay right, friend.
Re corners, the point made below is quite accurate. Nothing inherently bad about corners – just ones that vary in width vs leadup road like the bridge last turn at Palmer. Not that its a particularly bad corner or anything though. I dont remember any crashes there, but note that any oncoming traffic on the bridge could post a danger as most riders cross the line as they corner.
Local bike races cannot be run with the following standard because they simply don’t have the resources to be 100% accurate:
“Innocent until proven guilty, and the mechanism for enforcement has to be fair and unquestionably accurate.”
“Fairness” IS possible in that the odds of an error can’t be changed due to bias (“let’s be strict with THOSE guys but look the other way when a real local does the same thing”)
But an error will still be “unfair” if it’s an error.
And unquestioningly accurate is not possible locally.
At the highest level of the sport the standard has to be higher and I don’t know if the accuracy was there or not for Landis.
Also, corners don’t make most races dangerous. Roads that vary in width and allow or encourage surging from the back are more dangerous. Like the Sturbridge finishing stretch. Did anyone crash in the corners in that race?
The labs are wrong… keep eating lots of tuna!
is waaaaay cooler than biking. Go read slowtwitch. Doping, Red lights, helmets, headphones guy. hate hate hate
Cycling is filled with dorks who post random statements about the suckiness of cycling.
Cycling is the new suburbs.
Cycling suddenly is boring.
don’t you have to do it blatantly i.e. overtake other riders while over the yellow line to get dq’ed?
otherwise, good analogy. Innocent until proven guilty, and the mechanism for enforcement has to be fair and unquestionably accurate.
he’s lucky, he doesn’t even have to worry about training in the cold now.
can we talk about how bad the team high horse kits are?
…i hope old floyd blows the doors off what looks to be more & more like completely false supposition on the part of the lab in regard to the exogenous testosterone…
…until there is an adhered to standard for testing labs, that is monitored by impartial ombudsmen, literally watching over the shoulders of the testers, the doping problem will not have been properly addressed…
…i think perhaps the expressed indignation on floyd’s part is due to the fact that he’s 100% right regarding the testosterone levels…what’s not being said is that he was probably getting away w/ blood doping…an undetectable & common practice ‘at that time’…
…so, let’s hope all that righteous anger our boy is spewing, helps revamp a totally flawed system…all the guilty parties need to be reaccessed & dealt with, not just the dopers…
…with what has come to light, scientifically, it wouldn’t surprise me if the ‘cas’ ruled in floyds favor…
We are curious about his situation not hating.
He’s paying the price right now.
my ticket analogy wasn’t clear for Chris M? Imagine this…you’re a newly minted 40 year old cat 4 racing Bear mtn. You’ve taken EPOno, optygen & sportslegs for 6 weeks. You decide the Zipp 202’s are better on the downhill than the 404’s in case of a cross wind. The new white Cervelo takes care of the aeroness.
You’re racing, feeling strong, covering all the right moves up the hill after the neutral start. Eventually you win the race. Afterward the official tells you you crossed the yellow line during the neutral descent. You KNOW you didn’t but a couple of guys around you did. You ask for proof and they give you a picture of a blurry rider that looks like you, but you know it’s not. How do you react?
TS- I think I know you. I HATE to TT but love to sprint!
Wait, Jared should say he had the stuff for his dog (like VDB!!!) to make the dog wicked fast, and he was wrestling with him and ended up kissing the dog, and the exchange of fluids an’ all…
Maybe the results are up to some interpretation, but the objective panel that reviewed his case in painstaking detail apparently found that the lab result was valid. Thats good enough for me, till I hear otherwise from a better panel that spends just as much time and effort – which means we’d be waiting till like Aug for an answer if they started today! I think not. Guilty now until proven innocent, since he got his trials and was declared guilty fair and square. FL wants to moan forever about it, but I agree he’d have been better served to serve the suspension than fight, and fighting isnt some kind of proof of innocence either – how many other guilty dopers have fought the truth to the bitter end? Um, like all of them except Millar. Even Bunde I gather!
I agree. I know people get mad about picking on the local guy, but there was supposed to be an explanation given, etc…and there has been none. If there was a legitimate issue with a supplement it should be noted for everyone’s benefit, and I’m not being snide in saying that…..
When are we getting the Bunde explanation he promised? I am more interested in that story than FL’s. Landis is doper amongst dopers. Bunde, now that is a whole different level of doping. Local doper on a local team racing Pro/am events for next to no money. Blame is on the tainted supplement?
If you read the article, the exogenous test isn’t as rock solid as you’d think. According to Floyd they couldn’t test a known negative sample and show that it was negative within their own margin of error. I thought it was a yes/no definitive test, but it doesn’t sound like it. And I’m now talking out of my butt.
with Pure Hate. Hate crashes, rules on the fly, wearing a helmet, hitting my head/face on the road, training in the cold, most races except time trials, blah blah blah
I think you have to ignore a HELL of a lot of context in the sport to even begin to believe that he didnt dope, and a real test that shows exogenous test. present to back it all up seems to mean that you need to stick your fingers in your ears and yell to not hear the voices screaming “GUILTY!”. The lab screw ups were just part of a desperate legal strategy, however justified and correct – and focused mostly on the discredited test, not the exogenous test. Im not even gonna get into the aptness of the analogy – after JT and helmet argument, Im done with that whole business (nothing personal JT – I promise!). The dude is almost certainly guilty, and the ‘rules’ dont require the test to be thrown out just because numbers were transposed and shit. Bad clerical errors and even dodgy procedure dont make him innocent, even if they do need to shape up the labs a bit. The FL legal team had an interest in smearing the labs, and I would guess they arent as bad as made out to be overall if viewed in an objective light.
Wait, didnt I say I wouldnt get into this? Shit. Re-hash. Re-hash.
Exactly. If he took it like a man he could’ve been wearing an argyle jersey right now.
cop writes you a ticket for double parking (which maybe you did or didn’t do) but messes up your plate # a judge will dismiss it due to error. He will follow the rules, whether or not you actually did, and a parking ticket is a lot less important than a career. Floyd was shafted by seemingly “rules on the fly”.
ps: I HATE crashes, don’t like helmets (but wear one cause I HATE brain injuries) and HATE outta town races because I’m lazy.
Let’s say, hypothetically, that he’s innocent. He’s worse off fighting for his good name than if he confessed to something he didn’t do. He’s out of the sport for a longer time, he’s out a lot of money, and no matter what, people still won’t believe him.
I just cant bring myself to really get into Floyd L again at this stage. Likely I would just re-hash same arguments anyway I suppose.
I agree that Sturbridge is a recipe for crashes, but the open road from the turn helped a lot last year. 2006 was really bad – crashes in every field and many in same spot – prev poster may have confused years?
Palmer is NOT sketchy. Much less so than like a dozen other races during the calendar. Fairly open roads and no really tough corners to speak of, and uphill finish (sloping). Fun race really!
The sad part is if Floyd just admitted to doping, which if you watched that stage, he clearly did, and took his 2 years, he’d be back racing probably faster than trying to fight it in the courts, and he’d prly have some cash left in his bank account. David Millar seems to be the only smart guy around, no one questions him anymore.
So, I have no sympathy for Floyd; he’s acted like a douche, hasn’t taken any of the court rulings like a man and just accepted that no one is gonna let him back.
Do you wear a helmet or headphones when you crash?
The quick demise of the Floyd and Rock Racing arguments probably signals we’re all bored to tears by the sad current state of pro cycling. Surely we’ll get a little energy come Giro and TdF time, but it’s hard to get excited for anything they do this time of year. I’d almost rather read about helmets! Almost.
this one has bastardized into the crash tread.
Is changed this year. Similar terrain, but not the same (loop is longer also). I think the finish will be similar but don’t know.
That last corner is over 1K from the end, so while it’s sketchy it’s not critical.
Also, the finish is probably in the same place as the last few years, but at least once in the recent past that race finished on another part of the circuit (on Route 20 I believe – I wasn’t there). Check the flier details if/when they are available.
sour grapes
Last year I think there was a crash in every single field. One of my teammates broke his collar bone there, and I think he wasn’t the only one who walked away with such an injury that day. I think Palmer was a touch better, but both races are, at least in my mind, crash fests.
If I have the order right, its Sturbridge that has the very fast (ok, sketchy) downhill finish – not extreme but still waaaay fast. I think the change of course in 2007 opening whole road from the last corner helped avoid the crash-fest, but the finish is still non-selective due to the downhill, with a wall of riders moving at 40 mph quite scary really. Not clear to me why it needs to be like this when they could finish on a flat a bit down the road.
Palmer is an uphill finish. More selective and more reasonable pace to the line, though last corner to the bridge always has some ‘excitement’.
In that interview Floyd kept comparing riders like Hamilton to criminals who have been found guilty and “served their time,” and implied that it’s unfair for cycling not to support them when they come back. Screw that. I agree that a rider who has been caught cheating and then punished deserves a second chance to race again. But if the best teams and the biggest sponsors don’t want him representing them, that’s legitimate. Nobody’s depriving Hamilton of his civil rights, nobody’s taking back all the money he made while doping.
Seems like Landis is damaging his own credibility when he makes out that Michael Ball is the good guy and Slipstream and High Road are the bad guys.
It’s like OJ. He did it and the cops planted evidence.
I think there’s a chance CAS might surprise us and clear Floyd. Politically it was very hard for the US body to overrule the French lab. But they threw out the first test and I think they showed that the more difficult test to find exogenous testosterone was even more flawed.
I was actually surprised that they came down so hard on the lab and that the lab was really so bad.
CAS is in a better position to rule against the French lab and have their charges against the lab standup. If USADA ruled against the lab, it would have resulted in international bickering.
I wouldn’t try to characterize Floyd’s behavior with Ball. If he was really screwed, I’d think he’d be emotionally raw and off balance.
Does anybody have a link to the full decision that ruled against Landis and does that contain a detailed explanation of the whole case?
but I was wondering how the Palmer RR is? Seems like rollers but does this have the sketchy downhill finish or is there a slight uphill sprint?
Thanks
I agree with Andy. I think Floyd was shafted. I don’t necessarily believe he did not dope, but we do know for a fact that the lab that performed the tests had multiple screw ups. That alone should have made any results invalid. These tests can determine the fate of a riders career, so they should be held to a very high standard. Instead of Floyd hitting up all his fans for funds to continue his defense, all the other pros should be chipping in because they are teh ones who will benefit greatly by holding the labs to a much higher standard. It doesn’t help matters that WADA is willing to back up all this sloppy lab work.