Section head text.
Lately, it seems that every good local performance brings out the accusations of someone being perhaps “on something” or “doped up” or “sucking.” Can we please get some things clear? If you didn’t inject someone in the buttocks or sell someone the stuff – you don’t know what you’re talking about. You just happen to be talking out of your backside.
Simply because someone is doing well; it doesn’t mean that they are taking anything. Unless there’s a positive test, you cannot throw accusations around. Are we clear? because I would really like to return to talking about my butt.
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Sorry– David Millar.
Different conditions:
1. Doped rider, the whole team doped, the system supported/demanded it.
If a rider gets busted under these conditions, he’s guilty and should pay. But the directors, soigneurs, and other participants continue unharmed. If the rider admits guilt and either cleans up or, even better, helps to fight the problem, he should be accepted back into society after paying the penalty. This is the way it works with most crimes (theft, vandal, red-light runner etc). And if he helps to fight the problem, he’s an asset to the society.
2. Doped rider who did it on his own without peer pressure. Like everyone, he should pay. But we don’t know if we can trust him. Repeat offenders have proven they can’t be trusted. But first timers– after they have paid an appropriate penalty, should they be shunned from their society? Maybe. But conditions vary. Consider the difference between Robert Millar and Joe Papp.
“Maybe than the idiots who still dope will realize that it is NOT normal, and that NOT everyone is doing it.”
i think that having anonymous posting boards (especially if they are specifically about doping) provides a forum for finger pointing and general aimless chit-chat that does nothing more than normalize doping. i do not see many people posting on this forum being vocal about how DOPING IS NOT NORMAL.
i know a lot of it is fun and games, and yes of course i can take a joke… but at a certain point a blurry line is crossed, and the jokes and idle banter create a positive atmosphere around the subject. doping is ruining my (our) sport, and there is nothing funny about that to me.
Sinkewitz
I’m mad at the current system in cycling. Sinkewitz doped. He made 700,000 Euros a season. He cheated other riders and now he tells the story and just has to pay a fine. He made money from lying, cheating and doesn’t deserve to keep his house (which he bought with doped money). He says that he wants to come back to racing because he claims that he cannot do anything else. But there are also riders who can’t do anything other than cycling and they do it clean, but they don’t make 700,000 Euros a year. Why should Sinkewitz steal from these riders?
He is now allowed to return to the peloton in a year and all because he told his story. He said that he doped because everyone else did it too. I am a PRO and I don’t dope. He did it on a doped team. He did on a clean team, why? Because he can’t race without it. He shouldn’t be allowed a second chance. Blood doping is really big problem and no one can take the blame other than the rider who stands on the start line having used drugs. Riders agree to not use drugs when they sign for a UCI licence and anyone caught shouldn’t be entitled to a second chance. This will give a new rider, their first chance.
Name withheld by Authors request
Germany
Wednesday, November 14, 2007
So the guy who wrote this is a clean pro, yet won’t sign his name. So he is really pissed, yet still dick less to even talk about it.
That is precisely why all this shit can happen.
Everyone seems to be upset about doping, but I bet you that when Pulla, Alvaro, and the rest come racing again most people will just smile at them and kiss their aholes as if nothing happened.
Well, not me. I’ll do all I can to make their cycling life difficult for them.
And all the people who are interested in cleaning up the sport should do the same, and be way the hell more vocal against the doping. Maybe than the idiots who still dope will realize that it is NOT normal, and that NOT everyone is doing it.
But I guess that requires courage…..
Is that someone with a cat.1/2 brain? Or
“Drug use if you are (A) is your own call, at your own risk.
Drug use in any other group makes you a cheat and you lie to yourself and others to survive knowing that.”
Drug use in any category makes you a cheat you nimrod…
someone take that photo of momofuku down, looks like poo.
I took an aspirin this morning.
Male sports competition in no partucular order.
A) Pro or competing with or against pros
B) Rookies, those with 3 years or less competing in the sport
C) Under 40
D) Over 40
E) Juniors, under 18
There are no other categories, this goes for all sports.maybe over 60 is a another category.
Fit yourself in to a classification, and you will know how you are doing. Thats the real world, any sport. Of course there are college teams and high school teams that are subsets of (A)
Bike racing categories only have merit for those who are (B) and (E)
Drug use if you are (A) is your own call, at your own risk.
Drug use in any other group makes you a cheat and you lie to yourself and others to survive knowing that.
Hey, how come the last few comments user names link to Gatens’ blog?
Brian?
Programming glitch. Not Brian being sneaky.
I just want to point out that someone told Schmalz to stfu and he’s complied. That kinda makes this nasty thread worthwhile.
I cant wait till operation Bean Town gets going!
Redsox
Patriots
Celtics
hmmm…
HAHAHA I haven’t laughed that hard in a while. Whoever posted that is amazing.
ok fine, maybe talking about doping would be better…
at least with login names.
Yeah, you’re not witty. So just stop.
Ah yes, I’m a master of reverse psychology! Do NOT bite me!
I will no llonger allow my mind to be played with. I’ll see you guys on the road.
I was a good run.
You basically told us to use fake names.
“And fake user names are very clever…”
I love the way topics are suggested; telling us not to do this or that knowing we’ll say the opposite. It’s like Bush….War is Peace
A.O. – is that you?
Schmalz is on vagasil
Schmalz is on vagasil
The page is now log in, let’s see who posts. And fake user names are very clever…
all this talk about doping makes me pretty sad. like a lot of folks on the site, i pour a lot of time and energy into the arbitrary yet rewarding pursuit of being fast on a bicycle. i have hopes for my career as a bike racer, and if nothing else, i love the competitive atmosphere, and the interesting people that tend to be attracted to the sport.
i think that by talking so much about doping (in a largely unproductive way) i think we are hurting the sport more than we are helping it. doping is a problem, and it is one that should concern us, as it is killing our sport. however, i think that living with it at the front of our minds as something that is pervasive in the sport is doing nothing but perpetuating the problem. please let’s try to move past it.
i am not saying ignore the problem, but if we must talk about doping, let it be to find a solution to a pressing problem for our community, not to finger-point or whatever.
of course i could not read this site, but frankly i enjoy it, and like to know what my peers in the crca are talking about… i just wish it wasn’t doping…
i am actually starting to miss the blow-by-blow commentary from the last 4 race. remind me i said that in 4 months… đ
In addition to anon threads why don’t you make threads that require signing in. See how that goes?
This was up on the NY cycling yahoo groups. Simply stated, Dieter Drake who has been an OUTSTANDING memeber of the ny/nj/vt cycling community , promoting tons of races (balloon fest, battenkill roubaix, NY TT Championships) and was then embraced by USA CYcling to run the east coast racing scene for USA CYcling…well, he got fired for standing his ground and doing the right thing to ensure a top quality NY CX Race.
i say it sucks
i say usa cycling sucks.
i say the guy at usa cycling who was in charge of this years National TT should be canned for sure because he was incompetent, not principals.
i’m teeved
**HERES THE TEXT**
Well, the saga of USAC vs. Dieter continues.
While most of us have heard of the minor conflicts that resulted from Chuck Quackenbush
Don’t you realize Dan that some of the most hurtful posts come out of the mouth of one of Velocity nations founders? You know who he is. And he does it to get more hits on the site. His initials are A.O.
Look within Dan before you start lashing out.
That’s a profound statement that I totally agree with. Half of the $hit I say is just to get everyone fired up. What’s better than putting a curve in the conversation and watching it morph…
Eugene is either an asshole or he is dumb .Which is it?
yep, you missed it.
“Based in New York City, CRCA provides (coaching and) friendly competition.”
Studies have been done that suggest that anonymous internet posting brings out the worst in participants…I bet people don’t even mean half the shit they write on this site.
PJ, either you’re joking or you’re stupid. Which is it?
It’s pretty clear that she is both.
Or were you poking fun at the prevailing “dopeyness”, and I missed it entirely?
If that’s the case, oops.
the gel? or the intramuscular? the patches are cool, but don’t work so well…..
if you are a cat 4 and you win a race, you are a sandbagger. if you are a cat 1 and you win a race, you’re doping. if you are any cat and you don’t win you suck and shouldn’t be out there at all.
we should all stay in bed at 6am.
no shit its for fun, its not the type of job you do cause you have to.
Holla ja line!!!!
My wife told me to go on the synthetic testosterone
Thanks for the props, but it’s true– I *am* old.
But I think 5:29 is right. I felt the most capable (physically) when I was 32.
Even domestic pros are just doing it for fun. They make enough to live on and would all probably be better off financially if they quit cycling and started a real career. That’s why cycling is awesome. We’re all just out there trying to push ourselves and see what we can do, while balancing our training with life, kids, friends, family. Don’t worry about who might be stupid enough to dope and just go out and have fun.
yea I’d have to say the most off-base statement on this entire thread is that domestic pros make 45k a year. and keep in mind 45k is greater than the avg income for all Americans….thats cool though, insult the majority of America by labeling their pay as less than paltry, while at the same time not really proving your point at all because you’re totally misinformed.
almost no one makes a paultry 45k a yr racing in the US…more like 0-5k
i wish i made 45k at my job
Ned Overend
old people are cool!
old guys that do cross are hardcore… that 60 yr old on kissena blows my mind!
31 is actually your best year when you race…e freyre is 31…don’t count him w./ the 40 yr old…40 is a totally diff story
30 totally acceptable racing age, pro or not.
could have been the keggers that caused your lack of fitness? perhaps?
its not the old guys who start doping. they just happened to be old now, so lets call them DOPE VETERANS!
I am 31 and a Cat 3 and feel younger and stronger then when I was going to Keggers at age 19. Look at the best racers around and tell me if they are old:
Roger A;
Eneas Freye
John Loehner
Eugene B
Wilson V
Mike Mickinley of Anthem
Just to name a few.
did not get his start on his 30th birthday graduating from Central and Prospect Park. He is a PRO VETERAN. Anyone starting the pro ranks today would be considered a rookie no matter how many regional wins they have.
why are you still talking?
No, Ken Harris was not the only guy tested, although he is quite possibly the greatest thing to come around since sliced bread.
The thing is, you start spending time with local racers and you realize how normalized Entenmann’s is…you’ll just be sitting there after a long ride to the Spoon and some guy will just pop five Cinnamon Swirl Breakfast Buns in his mouth, like they’re pieces of candy. The whole thing is sick, and it starts at the top……
actually, the typical domestic pro makes far less than 45k, generally they get equipment and travel costs, and maybe a very minimal stipend. Lisban got a larger stipend this year than most pros (which is a whole different story). Although youth is valued, mostly for investment purposes, and there is a limited number of riders over 27 a pro team is allowed to sign, there are plenty of guys, in fact, most of the guys that win, are all over 30. and it just happens, that those are the guys that do make all the money. Now go tell Chris Horner he’s old.
Look at the pro peleton Jimmy. Whenever age is discussed if it’s over 30 they’re considered old. Secondly, after graduating regional racing, you have about a year of semi-pro activity, then you finally get paid that paltry $45,000. You’re now about 33 and you just started your new career racing against 23 year-olds who have a lot less to lose. Oh yeah, you’re done in two years with very little to show……….
no problem……
That only Dick Pound and I have signed our posts?
Proof? No one’s good enough to get caught. If they tested at Master’s track, Harris was probably the only local tested this year.
you’ll get your proof SCHMALZ! just you wait my friend
That’s the way it goes, Mr Remediation – you keep your trap shut until there’s proof…
“if some guy comes out of nowhere and wins 5 races in a row handily….he’s likely got some help. if you go to a high profile event like Univest and some mammer jammer solos away from a breakaway of pros (who are chasing hard mind you) for the win….he knows how to tap a vein.”
Listen closely, because I think the reading comprehension is getting a little low around here. You can’t just assume that someone is doping because of circumstantial evidence (even if the evidence points to doping), you can grumble to yourself and your friends, but you can’t post it somewhere as fact – because you don’t have any proof. If some one tests positive, you get to say they doped, but unless they do, you have to shut up. Why is this so hard to understand?
And to “my 2 cents” – take back your 2 cents and bite me…
From the looks of the average local Cat 4 race, I’d suspect half the field is using Entenmann’s
theres some serious abuse there….
yes, most of the god awful guys that shouldn’t be allowed to call themselves bike racers are over 30, for the rest of us, no we arn’t. and who said 30 was the magical cutoff age?
and what domestic pro makes 45k? like 3 dudes?
that should have said: if you’re not making money on all the page refreshing by people looking for reactions to their posts …
Everyone knows that icanhascheezburger is the new lolcats. Get with the program.
if it’s taking so much time to baby sit the posts, maybe you’re doing something wrong with the site. if you’re not making money all refreshing, stop the anon posts and give the site a few months to come back to life. what have you got to lose?
Let me start of with a basket of chips
Then move on to the pollo asado taco
I would like two pollo asado tacos with one beef chimichanga
On the chimichanga, I would like a side of sour cream
I would like tomatoes and onions on my quesodilla
For dessert I would like the flares — I would like extra cinnamon
Do you make guacamole?
Yes, I do make guacamole.
Uh, I would like a side of guacamole on my Tostitos
I like to dip the Tostitos in the guacamole
Can I get a basket, I told you about a basket of chips
I would like a large iced-tea, 2, uh, 2 large iced-teas
Ok, that’ll be $16.07
Out of $20? Ok, $16.07’s your change.
Hi, can I help you?
I would like a basket of chips,
A beef chimichanga with a side of sour cream
I would like some guacamole on my chimichanga
With a quesodilla of tomato, onion, and vegetables
I should like a burrito with beans, beef, and
I would like a carne asado taco
Could you put some hot sauce on that for me?
No, inside the taco, not on the side
Yes, can I have a carne asado taco?
Not a pollo asado, we don’t have chicken
Do you have guacamole?
Can you make me some guacamole?
I have guacamole
Ok, on my burrito I would like the muchaco beef and the shredded pork
And some more cheese, please
Ok, that’ll be $22…
Uh, oh yes, I would like two lemonades and one medium iced-tea
Ok, that’ll be $20.07
Out of $22? Ok, $1.52’s your change
Thanks a lot — your food will be up — here, let me get your drinks
Hi, can I help you? Yes, I would like a basket of chips
I would like a beef chimi…
Umm, what is, what is the, what is the, what is the pollo asado?
That’s the chicken
Ok, what is the carne asado?
That’s the beef
Ok, let me get two carne asado tacos…
I would like one Sausage McGriddle and a small coke, please. No hash browns.
Thank you.
Please, correct me if I’m wrong but most of the New York field is over 30 years old. They want to make a job out of it? You want to make $45,000 a year and live in hotels like a monk? You guys are losers. LOSERS. You take this $hit way too seriously. It’s only a race…not a religion.
From NY Times article on David Millar joining Slipstream. Good advice.
“The team
GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASSS
well as a cat 4, you may be having fun, but there are plenty of guys out there trying to make it their job….
Looking for Igor. Please have him reach me at contact@adlerrodeasmartrace.com
I believe you’ll find him promoting his new pasta creation, Testoseroni’s.
Does it really matter who is doping? None of us are riding for any reason other than to have fun and be healthy. If someone is so messed up in the head that he’s willing to sacrifice his health to win a race at 6a.m. in Central Park, or even a race like Univest, that’s not really our problem. We can still have fun, and offer those people help if we can.
stevie wonder is blind?
true indeed, the circle is small. i’ve been surprised quite a few times myself. it’s like when you find out your dad has been gay the whole time (schmalz, you know what i’m talking about here). you say “that guy?! Really?” What’s crazier is when they still suck after the fact. now that should carry a 4 season penalty as far as i’m concerned.
it amazes me how little people see the “writing on the wall” on this issue. it amazes me more that stevie wonder wrote a song about the writing on the wall when the mother%@!&er was blind! Brother made millions in royalties on that one too! let’s pause and thing about that for a minute…..
anyways, with a little practice and an open mind the whole thing becomes clear. truth is, if some guy comes out of nowhere and wins 5 races in a row handily….he’s likely got some help. if you go to a high profile event like Univest and some mammer jammer solos away from a breakaway of pros (who are chasing hard mind you) for the win….he knows how to tap a vein. if it seems strange that a guy who did nothing but win for seasons and is all of a sudden pack fill AND happens to have a good buddy serving a two year suspension… it’s because he has a good buddy serving a two year suspension. and if so-and-so has been acting “a little strange lately” in a macho man randy savage kind of way…. then “T” is his new favorite letter.
Weds is the new Thurs. Not doping is the new doping. Any blog is the new CJ blog. And for christ’s sakes, green is the new black.
i like kittens
i use kitten pelts for booties.
if you got rid of anonymous posting much of the problem would go away.
who says they are unfounded? Its done, I’ve seen it, its all over, get your heads out of the sand. For some fitness comes in a amp, and thats just how it is. Its mostly true that for 90 percent of the people that frequent this site, they have nothing to do with it or any need to worry about it, so don’t. Don’t defend someone you don’t know that well, or even those you do, cause its a very private thing, the circle of trust is small, and most of you aren’t invited. next subject please.
you guys are to blame for everything
It is clear from everything that has been said about doping that it was pretty much part and parcel of cycling in pro peletons in Europe and I suppose elsewhere. The world in which pro cyclists exist is small and hard and my heart brakes for a guy who lost his job because traces of an eating suppressant were found in his blood. That shit is sad. I totally understand why they dope and I also understand why they don’t think it is all that wrong.
Having said that, I think we are entering and era where it will become increasingly difficult to dope and the drive towards clean cycling will spill over from pro peletons to everyone else in the same way everything else spills over. I am looking forward to great cycling in 2008 and I am definitely going to step off the whole doping thing. I agree with Schmalz that it is crazy to accuse guys of stuff just because they are strong.
for all the good things about this site it gets damn ugly and nasty and stupid a lot of the time. maybe that’s what we’re really like and you’re providing a valuable service by showing what assholes we are. but instead of calling us dumbasses and asking us not to post crap, you should take some responsibility. you’re the ones smearing the crap around.
a whiny post about whiny comments.
wait for the ball to drop schmalz…..
Well, we provide a forum where people can speak their minds, unfortunately, some people are idiots, and speak their minds accordingly. Others react to those posts and correct the idiots. And the beat goes on.
Secondly, that’s quite a nifty analogy you have going on there with the teenagers and all, excepting, of course, that most of the people coming here are adults (we also have some juniors coming here of course, but the juniors that post here are usually more mature than some of the “adults”) and should actually know how to behave themselves in a forum like this. But unfortunately some have no idea how to behave themselves, but what are you going to do? Oh, I know know what you should do – you should blame us for having a forum in the first place!
Bottom line is, we try to get rid of the personal attacks, unfounded rumors and the profoundly bigoted and or stupid. And it takes a lot of time to babysit all the posts. If you can’t handle reading something that you don’t agree with or that doesn’t stroke your ego, I’d suggest you might not be able to handle this forum.
By the way, the over/under on the first sanctimonious “you guys are to blame for everything” post was 10 comments – pay up Shen!
unnecessary and anonymous shots to CJ are the new horizontal stripes.
what do you say shmalz?
“Bye, kids! The liquor cabinet is open, the car keys are on the hook, and your mother and I will be in Florida until next week. But you cannot have all your friends over for a big party. Are we clear?”
Moral: If you’re tired of anonymous, unsubstantiated accusations, stop providing a forum for them.
Any old timers remember that silly anti-drug campaign circa the early 70’s with the end tag “why do you think they call it dope kid?” Weird distorted video that looked pretty cool to me, some kid stumbling around, then some older know it all lecturing the kid… made me want to try that shit out.
http://www.haring.com/art_haring/images/crackiswack.jpg
doping has been a significant part of new your racing scene, as we now know, and it continues to be, as we suspect. anyhow, I fully intend to explore all doping related benefits and test them out in real world local races – as soon as I no longer wish to have more kids, so ther eis no risk to swimteam – if you catch my drift.
only the dopers are really doping.
doping is tough to prove, as has been proven
I hearby posit that Jammet has never doped.
Obviously!
Now, how do we explain the lack of insight and poor writing?
What are you talking about? Are you trying to create an issue?
doping accusations are the new black
“Lately, it seems that every good local performance brings out the accusations of someone being perhaps “on something” or “doped up” or “sucking.””
That’s only on this site. In the real world there’s actually respect and admiration.
Don’t worry about it.
Get it, Dick Pound???!!!
I would talk out my butt, too, but I’m afraid it might damage my testosterone ball patch.