The Green Mountain Stage Race has decided to include an individual time trial in their race this year, but with a twist – no time trial bikes are allowed, the competitors are required to use their road bikes. The organizers state that they decided to forego the time trial bikes for reasons of economy and fairness. Economy because no one will have to lug two bikes on a plane and also no one will have to travel with an extra bike on their vehicles, encouraging carpooling. They also don’t want racers to be at a disadvantage because they can’t bring or don’t have a time trial bike. Is it more fair to disallow time trial bikes in a stage race – as having a really expensive TT rig won’t give anyone an advantage in the GC? Have we entered the era of time trial détente? Is there any way we can also outlaw guys that sprint faster than I do also?
They should always do this for the 3s and 4s, perhaps 1s and 2s can bring the extra bike, but its a great idea. Why give such an advatage to guys who spend so much money?
makes a lot of sense. you have to pack so much for that trip anyway and drive so far, bringing the TT bike would be a pain. more races should do this for 3 and 4’s.
TTs are lame! They should make all racers do the uphill TT on Huffy Steel fixed gears that way the guys with the lighter Carbon Road bikes and wheels wont have an advantage.
I agree with this. Great idea. I am actually thinking about doing this race now. I hate TTs when all these 3s and 4s come out with $$$$$ bikes. I find it depressing
i think it’s a general retaliation against triathlons and whole culture that comes along with being a triathlete.
or not?
right on!
What about Aero wheels?
I think the TT won’t be as interesting/fun as the mass start hill climb. GMSR is about the tough climbs.
Hello GMSR Competitor,
As I mentioned in my previous e-mail this year’s GMSR will for the first time include an ITT. After making this announcement I received a great deal of feedback (positive and negative) about the change. Many racers sent me suggestions as well. I have shared many of these suggestions with other members of the race committee and our chief official. After some discussion we have decided to implement a suggestion that was made by many of you to exclude TT bikes and related equipment. Below I have included the ITT rule followed by the rational for the decision. The GMSR ITT rule provides:
“No time trial bikes will be allowed in the ITT. Only normal bicycles, wheels and handlebars meeting the requirements for mass start road racing are acceptable. This means no TT frames, disk wheels, aero bars, bullhorn bars, nor TT helmets will be allowed. Skinsuits and shoe covers are permitted.
All decisions on the acceptability of specific equipment will be at the sole discretion of the Chief Official or her designee. If you have questions about your equipment do not wait until you reach the starting line to inquire. If in doubt ask prior to your arrival for the event.â€
While I know that this rule will not make everyone happy the two primary reasons we decided to limit the type of equipment that will be allowed in the ITT are economy and fairness. On the economy side many racers are traveling via plane to participate in the GMSR. It is costly for them to bring two bicycles. Many others are driving a long way and we want to encourage racers to travel together when possible. Three or four racers and six or eight bikes just don’t fit on many car racks. Our goal is to have deep and large fields and we do not want to discourage racers from attending because they will be at a disadvantage by not bringing a TT bike. Regarding fairness no one will be at any significant competitive disadvantage as everyone will be racing a road bicycle. Further while we are not going to be able to totally level the competitive playing field this rule goes a long way in doing so.
I gave your mom a tough climb last night
Some dude from CCB used a disk wheel, are they legal in mass starts?
considering the wind on those climb that guy is a dumbass
Will we be holding hands?
this is perfect! totally awesome from the GMSR organizers.
are 1080’s allowed?
Let the retaliation against tri-geeks begin! BTWay, i had a sweet ride like the SoftRide bike pictured when they first came out in the early 90s. It weighed about 25lbs, due in part to the 3″ carbon diving-board. Mate that to a heavy steel frame, and it was a brick house…
i agree with not allowing TT bikes. this sport is prohibitively expensive for most of the population. And the tiny number of people who do race find themselves fleeced by the bike manufacturers who know they can charge whatever they want because 40-year-old suckers will pay anything if it says “carbon fiber” on it.
How about a bike weight limit for amateur racing? Say, 17lbs.
I think they should let everyone use tt wheels, aero helmets and clip ons. These don’t take that much space to bring along. Won’t affect car pooling much. I like to use TT stuff because it is fun for me to try to be as aero as possible and do the fastest time I can. As for buying an advantage, lots of people do this, not just TTers. It is all a matter of choice of where you want to spend. If you love hilly road races, spend the extra $ on 1200 gram carbon wheels and 15 lb bikes. Love TTs? Get the PC3 or Argon18 and 1080 front.
What can you buy if you are a sprinter that likes flat races?
a meatball sub. You don’t have to worry about the rest of the details.
Now I don’t have to get a TT bike, one bike on roof, ah simplicity….the thought of lugging 2 kids and the wife up to VT and then having to bring a different rig for 7 miles of ridding makes no sense….to boot I think everyone is right on the $ front.
I personally think that outside of NRC races where teams have budgets all stage races should be stock road bikes.
You can be as aero as possible and do the best ride you can when riding cannibal style. Only diff here is there is a level playing field, which I guess you think is dumb. I dont get it, myself. Obviously, any advantage of using light climbing wheels vs just regular light racing wheels is immaterial compared with aero vs nonaero TT equipment. Thats clear and obvious. You know better than to try to make this comparison. Look, I just think youre point is off and you should race the essentially level playing field as hard as you can like everyone else. Most of us believe that bike tech on regular road bikes doesnt confer a big advantage vs fitness in amateur categories and races under 80 mi.
It makes total sense that the promoters want to make it easier to travel to the race by disallowing a TT bike….. but it would be great if they allowed it so that the people who are good at that kind of competition could gain a little time on the climbers, who will excel on day 3. The time differences between athletes will be smaller running cannibal for sure, but you are still talking about all of 6 miles, a 13-15 minute effort total. It’s just not enough distance for full on aero equipment to make that much of a difference.
Ken Harris a coupla years ago did the FBF TT in both aero and cannibal and had a 70 second difference. That course is about twice as long as the GMSR TT. In a time based format let people run what they brung.
From CN: Former Saunier Duval-Scott rider Riccardo Riccò has named Carlo Santuccione as the supplier of the EPO that he used during the Tour de France, according to Italian newspaper La Repubblica. Riccò who won two stages before being thrown off the race for a doping violation, told that he paid 700 euro for the third generation EPO named CERA.
“I have not paid, naturally,” said Riccò. “Santuccione assured me you could not be found positive. So I did not give him the money.”
Cheater cheated! The injustice!
Masked Cyclists Apologize to Chinese Officials
masked meatball!
…bikes are outlawed, only outlaws & like really cool tt expert guys will have time trial bikes…
…just sayin’…
BMW 5 series. Cheap.
Friggin Chinese and the U.S Olympic toadies who do theirt bidding. Pisses me off.
Mike Friedman only apologized that his wearing a mask was misconstrued as an anti-Chinese political statement. He does not apologize for wearing a mask and would do it again.
Good for him.
news leaked over at Pelotoneast.com
Yes, Chodroff of Empire won by over 50 seconds.
are TT’ers eating each other?
where’s that meatball sub?
I think that if you get into the sport of cycling, you gotta bring both games to the table (road/TT). I think the decision is ridiculous. If people cant roll against the clock with the equipment one trains to do so with, why even have a TT stage. Good point about the climbers. Maybe there should be a rule that dictates that guys under 150lbs have to wear ankle weights on the climbing stages.
Bottom line is – one either has the legs or not (plenty guys can stomp down the clock better than folks with a full TT gear.
The ruling is quite laughable and so I will sit out GMSR 08′. The playing field will never be even – no matter what race. Let your course selection do all of the evening out of the field, not stupid equipment rules.
If guys reg’up from out of town – that’s theyre concern on travel – give me break!
sign:
hurtful truth.
Who were the top 3 at elite TT?
“If people cant roll against the clock with the equipment one trains to do so with, why even have a TT stage. ”
“Let your course selection do all of the evening out of the field, not stupid equipment rules.”
You’re talking a lot, but you’re not saying anything.
When I have nothin to say, my lips are sealed.
Say something once, why say it again?
Its simple logic – if you cant use TT equipment for a TT stage – what’s the point of having a TT stage. just mass start’em like they’ve been doing.
In cycling, all of the concerns relevant to “evening out the playing field” should be done through course selection not athlete equipment. Select the stages on roads that are hard for all discipline’s.
I’m writing alot because some Velocity posting folks have I.Q.’ score’s that wont breach room temperature.
hurtful enough?
A great mass start video from GMSR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyzIfY9rSdU&feature=related
I think it will make things more level.. I just wish they’d announced the rule BEFORE I built a TT bike!
‘Doh
“Its simple logic”
The following doesn’t sound logical:
“if you cant use TT equipment for a TT stage – what’s the point of having a TT stage”
It’s still a TT– it’s still a test of individual strengths. That’s the point: to test individual strengths and rank each rider accordingly. A different bike doesn’t change that.
“all of the concerns relevant to “evening out the playing field” should be done through course selection not athlete equipment.”
This seems to contradict your first point (or, question). And it’s exactly what the gmsr people have done!
They should lock him up for wearing that stupid hat.
Actually, an individual’s strength in achieving an aero position through special training, tunnel time, other is removed by limiting equipment choices. Those hard earned gains are machine specific and removing the machine removes a strength
It’s still a TT– it’s still a test of individual strengths. That’s the point: to test individual strengths and rank each rider accordingly. A different bike doesn’t change that.
No matter what type of test, or what type of course, format, restrictions, etc, there will always be some with advantages over others. That’s the nature of competition. The gmsr format doesn’t allow for cheating, or un-natural advantages– everyone is subject to the same test.
If “simple logic” is complaining that the nature of the race doesn’t suit him, then that’s lame. If someone decides to stay home because he can’t use his new toy, then that’s sad. It’s a bike race, right? You like bike racing, don’t you?
I just did a 10 mile TT on my 20 year old Masi with 36 spoke eggbeaters + MR.Tuffy’s out in Michigan (that old Masi I keep at my inlaws) for a local event, cannible style. It was a slow course and the dude who won was a former Kenda-Raleigh guy from Mass with the full on disc TT bike who did a 23:40. He put 70seconds into my cannible ride and I finished 4th out of the 15 guys who showed up. Some pretty decked out. I did use my Deno’s skinsuit & aero shoe covers and my forearms are banged up from “faux-aero” sections. That was as aero as it got for me, but it was a good challenge and I was a close fourth between the aero guys.
25 years ago guys like Matt Koschara were doing 52 minute 40K TT with no aero anything. This is a GMSR throwback challenge!!! Just go with it.
I’ll bet that dude who beat me full-on aero would have beaten me by 30-40 second non-aero. Viva le Sprinteurs et rouleurs. Plus you only need to bring one bike. For the sprinters, just have them officilly start at the back bell lap and let then move up then & only then….
Just have fun. The guys who win the TT will win anyway, they just won’t go as fast.
officially start bell lap all a t the back and see what happens.
-Haig
race because you can’t use all your new toys? maybe the race doesn’t need such a whiny “competitor”. after all, who knows what you’ll complain about next- perhaps your team car won’t be allowed to follow you close enough in the road races? maybe they’ll ban ejecting your bidon tour de france style?
i don’t understand- you’ve been training on your TT bike but somehow, none of that training is going to cross-over to a cannibal style TT? did you forget how to hold onto regular drops or something? are you using different muscles on a TT bike? it’s still bike racing!!! they aren’t making you ride a chromed-out low rider…
pass me a meatball parm hero!!!
the cannibal TT is a great idea, for all the reasons the promoters say. the “simple logic” is not “if you cant use TT equipment for a TT stage – what’s the point of having a TT stage” … it’s, “if you cant use TT equipment for a TT stage – what’s the point of having TT equipment” … and personally, i love the idea of not having TT equipment. TT bikes are a pain in the ass, literally and figuratively, and most road guys racing a full schedule race them five times per year or less. the equipment makes a legitimate difference, so if you want to be competitive, you HAVE to have it and train on it, even though the grand total of racing time for the whole season is maybe 1-3 hours on the things. one bike per guy per stage race makes travel MUCH easier for everyone from individuals driving, to carpools of 3-4 guys, to people flying, to bigger teams crowded into vans or team cars. i think this is a welcome move by GMSR and i hope other promoters will follow suit.
the Tour of Georgia do the same thing, for the same reasons? I’m surprised the pros weren’t on this site bitching and moaning. Oh, that’s right, they’re pros. We should be upset there is no TTT,now, individuals without strong teams have a chance. Oh, the humanity,
Didn’t the tour of Pennsylvania do exactly the same thing?
Stage 1 time trial — no TT specific equipment.
It still looked very much like a time trial:
http://www.philly.com/philly/video/Tour_of_Pa_dot__bike_Time_Trial.html
Elite TT champ 2008
what is Elite anyway? Is that basically Cat 1, or some other mix of riders? Age group specific? Something else?
Elite is cat. 1 only
no pros
no cat 2s
Elite TTs allows all categories. If some local Cat. 4 wanted to go race Elite TTs, he could have. He would have finished 20 minutes down, but would have gotten to the start line with a number.
On the USA-Cycling website, their homepage top story is the nationals TT, but no mention of Chodroff, unless if you click through and scroll way down. His was the day’s (the country’s!) fastest time on the long course.
Does USAC have their favorites? Or is it embarrassing that a pro didn’t win? Or what?
Oh, my bad. Must be cat 1 only for the Elite RR and crit then.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2008/aug08/elitenats08/elitenats081
and they think cyclists are on a lot of stuff…
http://www.creablast.net/steroids/carrot.jpg
schmalz, don’t make me tell your boss how you’re spending your valuable time at the office…
<>>
Anyone know the scoop? It seems like it would be hard to get Dq’ed from an ITT no? Discrimination against folks with full facial tats?
curious as well – a crca rider got dairy queened too
It’s pretty easy actually – just draft other riders.
Dairy Queen:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/85/217076043_846aba52b2.jpg?v=0
http://www.womens-fitness-workouts.com/images/big_breasts2.jpg
i’m going to go out on a limb here, and assume that’s not a safe-for-work link
although i’d love to see a “big_breasts3.jpg” a la total recall
“baby, you make me wish I had three hands!”
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080807/NEWS01/80807001&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
See for yourselves why TT makes people insane. The dude needs to be checked in, at least he’ll see real doctors there.
http://www.westwoodvelo.com/showthread.php?t=5157
for all the support and congrats! It was a great day. I am glad to put up this result and represent CRCA and the entire northeast area during this national event. Putting on those stars and stripes was incredible!
Wow, TO know that you will smoke Jacques-Manes and definitely be on the podium is pretty ballszy.
He is a fast but if he is so sure of his power on the bike 360plus watts for 45 minutes then maybe he should man up and upgrade to Cat2.
I do not care what kind of racing he does. If he can put out those numbers and is confident he will podium at Elite Nationals then he has no business racing Cat 3s.
Last check a TT don’t care what cat you race. What’s the difference if he upgrades? He does 1, 2, 3 races on the rare occasion he does a road race and mostly only TTs which don’t count towards an upgrade.
he’s still batsh*t crazy
“i knew if it took a minute, a minute and a half to change my tire, i could still win”
HA
cuckoo for coco puffs
Wrote a great piece, you should learn to read it: “Each of us knows we can beat the other two. And each of us knows that we can’t be beaten.” – is this statement possible? – No, it speaks to the mindset of the top 3 competitors in the race. In addition, he took like 30 seconds out of Chodroff the 1st time they met (on a shorter, but flatter course). If he did that again, he might’ve won with a 1:30 tire change. That being said, it is all “if only’s.” IMHO he was writing about his mindset, with his thoughts based on previous performances. How many of us finished a race and have thought we could have placed higher “if only?” Is he batsh*t crazy? Yes, but it is expressed in his drive towards the Elite TT title, not in his writings.
“So take THAT NYVelocity. Doc Will is, and has been UCI legal.”
Ha! +1 for the good doctor.
Y’all need some reading comprehension. Good report. I’m glad he dropped the false modesty and gave an honest account. If you actually read the whole post before rushing here to start a catfight (remember: have a snack and take a nap before posting) you would’ve read this:
“I look forward to the day when Pete, Jon, and I can come together to TT again. Each of us knows we can beat the other two. And each of us knows that we can’t be beaten. (Yeah, we are all cocky bastards.)”
Honestly not sure what your guys problem is. You gots to think like a winner to win.
and WAY TO GO Chodroff! I’d sleep in that jersey if I had it
Who cares about some dork who DNFs a TT? Not me. Congrats Chodroff. Nice win
About Dr’s “winning ride” at Nationals. Maybe I’m uninformed but I thought the idea was to make time up on the hills because on the flats you level off. Unless he’s going to do 40mph to everyone elses 35mph it’s impossible to get that 30 seconds back from the guy that passed you come the flats. If he goes 30 seconds faster up the hill but you’re only 1-2mph faster on the flats, good luck getting all that time back. If he’s even on the flats your race is over. Starting in that gear shows a lack of attention. Still lots to learn. I guess we can all wait till next year for the win.
In my opinion part of the joy of racing in this sport is the equipment. It’s just plain simple as that. The equipment is a variable that makes the sport fun. Anyone that thinks differently is in denial. To compete on different forms of equipment spices things up and well lets be honest here, A true sportsman of cycling can do well without a TT machine but to really engage the beauty of stage racing – I think one should have a Time Trial that captures the beauty as well as the athleticism. Just because one cant afford it or carpooling can be problematic is no real reason to ban said equipment. If there’s a study that proves the position I’d love to read it.
I’m sure the love of racing in general underscores everything yet I dont discount the aesthetic qualities that separate cycling from other sport activities like say BMX or Mtn.B (which are fun sports in thier own right but not graceful like road equipment). Hey I’m a vain bastard that loves cool shit even though I cant afford it.
To all the guys that bitch about not being able to afford a set-up, I say if you’re really serious about having a solid Stage game, pony up and get somethin. The carpooling argument – I’m all for doing my part on the gas saving tip but when it comes to racing, a rider that uses 2 rigs for stage races usually plans accordingly.
show me a TT where Dr. Will has not beaten the entire field by at least 30 seconds. Dude makes up time on the flats. Even over Chodroff.