Section head text.
Well you’ve gone ahead and done it – you’ve got yourself into a breakaway. Now that you are at the front and trying to tug yourself away from a chasing peloton, what are your responsibilities to your companions? Should you pull through smoothly? Can you skips turns? Or is it every chamois sitter for themselves? Can you sit on the back the entire time and then prance around your compatriots for an easy win? And after such a win, do you have the right to expect a nice high five or a  finish line man hug? I need to know, because I have to work out my man hug distribution system.
oh yeah? what about irwin m. fletcher, smart guy. was his real name jane doe?
you can get back to sifting through your man-crush schneider’s trash
People in the press sign their names to their work, stupid, you’re just an anon-o-puss, “vaclav”.
you think china and turkey prohibit freedom of press? NYV is worse, and this is USA. shame on you!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xabiZwVoyjc
WORD? 1985 called and they want their lingo back.
Just wanted to drop a note to the guys that have added substantive comments on the topic. I would say this is one of the best threads that I’ve seen on the site and I’ll definitely try to incorporate some of the advice into my thought process.
you mentioned my favorite classics rider; Bartoli. when he drops
Zuelle/Jalabert in LBL it is unreal.
It is a must see for anyone calling themselves a bike racer. the Pain on Zulle’s face is crazy. it is what one dreams of doing.
inflicting pain
I’m pretty sure weekend warriors only race on the weekend, typically have high paying jobs, and are douchebags. While most of you guys on here are douchebags, I don’t think the elite guys around are weekend warriors. The ones that are any good travel a bunch, race on more than just the weekend, and put in almost a full time job’s worth training, in addition to usually working some sort of job.
I’m pretty sure weekend warriors only race on the weekend
sorry…
been a good week by VCN standards. Let’s try to keep it up.
Or not…
to the schneider comments? that was the most brilliant post ive seen on this site in months.
what were you doing in the break sunday?
I don’t get it. JPeak was less than $30. Spring Series is less than $30. We live in a city of 17 million people an hour from Philly, and three hours from Boston.
I would gladly pay $50 for well run road races within an hour of the city. Screw it, I would pay $60 if I could pop my bike in a trailer near Grand Central and get a ride.
I don’t buy the “getting permits is hard” argument. It is more like,… the rewards don’t justify all the work. Maybe fees need to go up?
Wait. This is totally off topic. But maybe not. If there were more top notch road races close to the city people wouldn’t be so confused about park races and where they fit in the overall scheme of things.
you’re completely bananas if you think you dont have a lot of racing in your area….the number of races, and the range of races, is an embarrassment. riders in other parts of the country would fart in your general direction.
done…go ride time…
next topic:
powertap v SRM
carbon v titanium
80 or 140 psi
but now we know at least there is hope!
ha, what is it about cycling that makes every local SHMO think they are PRO
2 wins in 2 days for Cavendish, he’s got to have guys whizzing their shorts for the Tour
is it Friday yet? i want to talk about who is going to win CRCA, both SS races and any of the other non real races.
Don’t ask me about who i am or what cat i am, because i’m an ex-porn star who turned to cycling to kick my meth habit and have very quickly upgraded from 5 to 4… only 10 races!
word, eugene. I have to nap for 2 hrs before any serious vo2 max stuff this year and I am probably slower now than ever.
Ow man, I’m exhausted! Let’s take a break!!!
is next week. They need my special sort of inside help.
will you guys all shut the eff up? this site is like reading a bunch of guys in an adult rec basketball league argue over who could play for the lakers. you’re weekend warriors — every last one of you. get over it. find a job, marry nice lady, have family, ride your bike, be nice to others, and have fun. life is short.
You guys are jerks. Lots of masters riders keep the Cat 1 or 2 license because they earned it when they were younger and scoring in races more often.
I am not old, I just get tired a lot…
Ephrata, PA – 2 3/4 hours
Jiminy Peak – 3 1/4 hours
Battenkill – 3 1/2 hours
Sterling – 3 3/4 hours
How far to a real bike race?
very nice tactics from Turbo George Hincapie…
Bartoli in LBL: 2 on 1 from Zuelle/Jalabert and he drops them both…granted not a “clean” era but great tactics.
Roche 1987, the entire year.
OK…go to class…
Malloy will be grading with 99% of grade coming from race results.
😉
BTW, dg to 3 so I can actually hang out in the race until I can even think about a result again, maybe Masters/3/1,2,3…funny when JFT and I can’t even get 100 m off the front at PP!
i would downgrade. serious holmes with all due respect and i really like your posts about not wearing a helmet… but 2 top 10s in a year (assuming 50 races) just isn’t worth the number on your license. at least for me… maybe it is for you. please keep posting.
with lots of adler love
Bla Bla Bla I placed this, I’ve done that.
JT earned his 2 and signs his name. Maybe your winning 4 races and don’t sign your name. Maybe I’m a try-g*d and put up my PB in central park this morning. Good for me… Good for you…
now can we get back to talking about how dope those adorable Adler’s look in their orange and blue.
I’m sad that Christopher is hurt, he’s dreamy and totally the hottest Adler on the team
can we focus on how to go fast in circles while being off the front and not being adler?
is it funny to talk about broken fingers?
if i placed once in 25 races i would downgrade. if you’re a cat 5.. then i’m glad you enjoy it out there.
What to do? I’m not sure i get some of these comments. The range of abilities in Cat 4 is very broad. There are lots of guys who will fade immediately if they join a break, let alone pull. They aren’t patently uncompetitive … if given the opportunity I bet they’d go balls to the wall in another sport.
But to categorically assume that the 60% of the guys sitting in the pack are just wasting their time isn’t fair exactly. They are technically “racing”. I’d chalk this up to the broad ranges of skill levels inherent to the 5 cat system. In a pro field, there isn’t nearly the same range. They’re all ‘almost’ the best.
If all it took was “racing to win”, then we’d all be winners right?
not to burst your bubble here, but placing one time every 25 local races is pretty close to almost never in the cycling world.
at least pro domestiques have a useful function out there – fetching food and waterbottles for thier team leaders.
You are just going around in circles, both on the race course, and at home in front of your computer.
about broken collarbones
This is exactly my point. This was a fantastic DISCUSSION until certain poeply started chirping in with thier view of the cycling universe….every 38 seconds. Some of THOSE PEOPLE are like discussion repellant.
JT you need to relax yourself yourself
I love how the Adler guys anon post about how fast they are in the park. Too bad that doesn’t seem to translate to anything worthwhile, just broken collarbones.
i post anonymously on a regular basis.
i also went to every porn site i could find and signed wilson up for email notifications.
haha just kidding.
Okay guys it is time to come out with it. I am Cranky, and yes I have been insulting and arguing on this site with myself.
For your own wellbeing you should screw yourself yourself.
If I want to point out the lameness of anonymous cowards I feel free to do so.
Thanks.
The site owners have decided that logging in and names aren’t important here. For your own well being you should probably let it go, or take it up with Dan and Andy via email and see if you can get them to change it.
plus Dave Jordan as rider/manager and wild poster
Whats funny is that you chose to point this longstanding fact of NYVelocity on the one day that we get serious and helpful posts from the likes of Will Riff, Alex Bremer and K Molloy – like the best lineup in this sites history. Whats the disconnnect here?
And the best thread goes south…
Yes, JFT, you are a certified wildman. Does that make you happy or sad?
see that? 3 posts…
I post in my home
I post while I roam
I post in my head
Ill post ’till Im dead
I post on a horse
I post while on the course!
I post ’till Im hoarse
Oh, and I definitely post without remorse!
Regardless of whether or not what you say it true, even if you’re “Not going to be naming any names here” maybe start with your own?
Just a suggestion.
I place about once every 25 bike races. Not very bad. Not very good either.
Am I a wildman?
i’ve placed in 2 of the 4 races i’ve done this year. and i post a lot. sometimes i post replies to myself
obviously you are doping if you placed that frequently!!!
Not going to be naming any names here, but there seems to be some sort of inverse correlation between race results and velocity postings.
Seems like the guys who always place, almost never post here. Guys who almost never place are here posting like wildmen every day?
If we do not race well, at least we can type? Has anyone else noticed this trend?
The dudes that are strong now will be stronger when it gets warm. No?
The picture of McCain still freaks me out every time I look at it.
You are arguing just to argue now. If you are already good at that than race what race you want and do you best. Johnny Cake, CP, Bethel.
how’s Jonny Cakes stack up to Floyd Tuesday 123 races – some of those were shattering last summer
…will pull
I would say (my opionion only) its better training to fight for 30 miles of 55 in a hard windy race vs. sitting in at a fast pace for the whole race only to get blown out the back on the final 1k. The most you learn from a race like Johnny cake or the PA races in March is how to hold position and focus mentally on conserving energy and riding smart. In the park races you can kind of zone out and still hold the pack pretty easily. The training is not always physical but mental also.
but easier to pretend you’re racing
In the local parks. You can ride around and hide easier.
Sometimes that’s a good thing. What’s better training – getting dropped 15 minutes into an event and riding solo for an hour, or just barely hanging on just barely for an hour and a half?
I went to the first race. It was as hard as they say. Strong head/cross wind all the way around the exposed course. I only lasted an hour before deciding that it would be better for my mental health to go to lunch than to finish the race. Target, Kenda, Celtics had big numbers and looked very strong. WWV looked good too, but the squad they brought wasn’t as good player-for-player with the other big teams. Anyway, the drive is 2:15 from the GWB. Don’t make the trip if you don’t have room for a trainer. As I learned the hard way, you need to warm up for this event as if it were a crit. It’s all out from the end of the neutral zone and there’s nowhere to hide.
If you’re young you should drive & mix it up. See what’s out there and how you stack up. If you’re old (like me) enjoy the park life for what it is. I don’t waste my time training “huge” or traveling. We have so much local racing most people don’t know what it’s like to live in other parts of the country. A lot of those other state guys are doing the Johnny Cakes 3+hrs drive all year for crappy in-season races. We have a race a week outside our doors almost all season. Why diss the local scene?
ps: a lot of our locals manage to do quite well outside of the Park.
Too true, Will. Very correct. CP races arent easy at all when everybody is pushing hard and the speed is sub 14 min laps. In that case, to win you have to have sustained power output very high plus energy and strength to sprint up an incline. Even when Im fit I cant hang on the strongest wheels with the power they produce up Cats Paw. Im left behind like the pathetic poser I am in the wake of the top 10 riders around here. Same guys win out of town in various places – argument has been rehashed a million times – results speak for themselves.
wvasquez0569@aol.com
What’s your email address?
I’m reminded of something a friend said happened to him at the Tour de Beauce (a super hard event in Quebec with all sorts of tough riders from around the world). Every day it was full on from the gun. And by about the third day my friend was hurting. He was hanging on a wheel single file right from the start and muttered under his breath “Don’t they ever let up.” And the guy behind him says, in a heavy accent, “No. No, they never let up.”
That said, what’s with the Johhny Cake crowd going on and on about how hard that series is. So what? Even if it is so hard I (and most working people) don’t have time to drive to races over and over again. Personally I’ll only drive to special events and think it’s way more productive from a training/development standpoint to do a Park race and get an extra five hours of rest or training or life on the weekend than spend that time driving to some superhard training race.
Yes, riders should mix it up. And yes, it’s important to sometimes do hilly, windy, cornery, whatever events (I wish we had hillier events closer by to NYC). But for my goad, in March/early April, it’s not worth it.
There are big differences between CP and out of town races, but I don’t think that means that guys who win in CP are not as good as guys who win out of town races. They are just good at different things. What makes racing in CP hard is the speed. Guys who win there usually are very good at conserving energy at speed and are able to generate lots of power in a fast sprint. Out of town races (with perhaps the exception of Sturbridge) generally are not held on such fast courses where the entire field is sprinting for the line at 35+mph. The guys who win GMSR and the more selective races are better at sustained efforts. Just because you can tear a field to shreds in a crosswind does not mean you can easily win in CP
I think it is just a matter of having different skill sets.
has to be one of the fastest guys out there. He made some point a while back in an interview that he is one of only a few guys who can accelerate more than once in the final km and his wattage is not out of this world. I think Pettit might be able to put out more for a short while.
I haven’t been there in a long time, but recall it’s rolling terrain with a few short steep hills. I think the finish is after a two-part steep hill. Some small roads.
The type of course that in mid-season with a big strong field seems very easy, but with borderline fitness early in the year might be challenging.
newyorkbikeracing.com sez:
27 laps P123
22 laps Masters
“where are the other 60+%??? waiting for the field sprint to get a top 10? ”
Sometimes we’re just sucking. I do some races without doing much due to lack of fitness and motivation. It’s better for fitness than training. So what? I think just riding around is better than the guys who just chase down breaks even though they can’t sprint and aren’t helping teammates.
Re-Read Kevin’s post. He’s writing about 1 day races, not GC events
So the 1/2/3 race starts at 8:30 but the length must be wrong. Can someone please remind me of the # of laps we have?
We need more of these building up sessions!
Kevin, that was the best post ever, thank you.
Off the topic but any input on the course. The website for the race has little in terms of profile etc. Thanks –
Does anyone know Rashad’s phone number?
I have to disagree with Molloy on 1 point, with this example. Let us take Rashad in this SS. He is 1st in P/1/2, and 1st in the overall. Assume he is in a move that gets caught, and his main rival, the guy that is 2nd in points counters. Rashad can’t go, but a teammate does the right thing and gets on to the move. He should not work. He does not want the move to succeed, but if it does, he wants to be there with the legs to take points from number 2 guy. This is perfectly acceptable tactics, and he should sit on the back, not rotating through. Everyone in the break should be aware, and get on with the business at hand. They should also try and work him over to rid themselves of him. That being said, I wish it were more like Belgium where everyone would work, or else, but it isn’t. It is New York park racing, which can get pretty negative at times. I also agree that team tactics are overrated around here, and most often the stronger guys prevail.
i was only able to watch the very end of this race, but really i saw the most intense 20 minutes of racing. the most impressive thing, i thought, was how quickly groups would form off the front – with a 10 meter gap dudes were already totally organized, lined-up, and burying themselves trying to establish a serious gap. some moves, after 30 seconds, looked back and saw they were toast. other kept motoring. but all of them were gunning from the moment they had any separation from the field.
like molloy was saying, there are only a few guys who are going to be winning field sprints (around here or in the protour). one of the biggest differences is that those guys all want to win their race. and they get that they cannot do that if they wait for the sprint. 10th place in those races is not important. even less so around here. those guys lay it all on the line, almost all of them, in an effort to win. i would say if 5% of local racers can win field sprints, there are really only 10-20% that are working to get away. where are the other 60+%??? waiting for the field sprint to get a top 10? aiming for some upgrade points at 6th place? i know that is what i used to do.
but really racing is much more fun when you are racing for 2, 3 or 4 hours, rather than the last 10 minutes or 30 seconds of a race. and you get a lot more from riding that way too. personally, i would much rather go out guns blazing, and get 60th place 9 times out of 10, for the chance that #10 is a win. to me that is much better than sitting in and consistently getting 8th. granted that takes skill and patience, and in an NRC race you are doing great. but if you give every race the max effort, than very often you will find yourself off the front and scoring points many of those 9 times… going full gas will very often get you much better than 60th place even if things don’t go just right. and when you throw caution to the wind and it does work out, you win! you have to give it your best shot or else don’t bitch about getting boxed in!
racing is much more competitive when people are all going balls out for their shot at the win. that’s why lemond said “it never gets easier, you just go faster.” look at this picture of phillipe gilbert attacking on his way to winning Het Volk this year:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/mar08/hetvolk08/index.php?id=/photos/2008/mar08/hetvolk08/bettiniphoto_0023773_1_full
go hard or go home. and yeah save the tactics for once the break is home free.
I saw a bunch of Adler guys HAULING ASS in CP this morning…
Lets not get crazy! There is some talent in NYC no doubt but they will have to beat out, guys like Lindine, Luekens, Aiden Charles, some of the Kenda boys, just to name a few. The top guys at Johnny Cake would win tons in PP park. I do not see a guy like Rashad hanging with Justin Lindine or Aiden Charles in GMSR… The Keltic Masters guys show up in force and those guys have some power. NYC does not have the best racers sorry to break it to you.
Molloy, wheres the section describing why empire chases down the break with two of its own riders in it?
Toona, Tour of Va., formerly Tour of Shenandoah, and
Owasco Stage Race have been cancelled for 2008.
Work or go back to the field. Period.
want to see good race tactics from the best field sprinter ever? watch Cipo bridge to the break in the 2002 Ghent-bubblegum.
Yesterday’s De Pain, Cavendish loses his leadout guys and then still rockets up the side to take the win by a huge margin! That boy has some serious speed.
Its about a 3 hr drive. Ok, its great racing but why should NYC guys care? We have races right here, and enough guys to make the races competitive. If we sent the guys who win local races, they would win Johnny Cakes too.
Besides, I’d have to explain to my non cycling friends what I was doing in a town named Coxaskie.
Do we actually need to have this conversation?
I don’t think NYC guys don’t care about it, it’s just that not a lot of NYC guys have the means (a car) to get to it. Sounds like a good race, I can’t make it because it’s a long-ish drive (90 or so minutes) for my weekend parenting schedule.
I think guys in the break think they can ride at there pace and let someone else do the work, this happened alot last year in the cat 4, people not pulling through etc.
First you have to get away which means ripping yourself inside out, thats everyone in the break and once you are away then you can think about tactics.
A break away does not mean being 50 yards up the road from the field, whilst the field just watch.
Was great to see a break stick in the B ‘S CRCA This weekend, alot of that was because they guys i the break were obviously working but also because the big teams controlled the tempo of the peloton last year you would get teams chasing down there own riders. Funniest moment this weekend was when a foundation guy starting hammering at the front until a razorfish guy point out that he had a man in the break to which he quickly slowed down and went SHIT YOUR RIGHT.
I know the NYC guys dont care about Johnny Cake, but that is what makes the race so hard. Its raced from the gun. Guys sprinting out the nuetral zone to get away. No sitting in due to the harsh wind and relatively tough circuit. The tactics a on from the start and its a great learning experience. The most important part of the race is that you cannot make a big mistake and catch back on like a race in PP or CP. The course and wind wont allow it unless you have some big time power. The race is very good for new racers to learn tactics and how survive multiple attacks.
Great point by Molloy. I have a few of these and love watching them over and over. So much tactical stuff to learn. Watching someone like Johan Museeuw in a break is like a master class in tactics. Every move he makes, every look he gives is a chess move.
oops … seems like the offending alan post was removed. guess the sensitivity of the postometer is still set to ‘dickishness’. either that, or i’m just imagining an anti-alan post and am arguing with myself.
to be honest, errrr, i wasn’t actually going to cut your nuts off, anyway. i was going to put a rubber band around the scrote, and cut that, and when it snapped you wouldve freaked out, thinking i had severed the crown jewels. it would just have been a joke. not a ‘ha ha’ joke. well, not from your perspective anyway. but seriously, i wouldnt bring up alan again, just in case, you know? great. time to go sober up now.
damn. did i just ruin today’s dialogue by ending it w/ a non-break comment? how do i delete this thing? someone step up and say smth sensible, please
Do you think Hillary will be able to bridge to Obama?
got it – thanks. someone else (i think) suggested rotating and just pulling off at the front which threw me off
kmolloy – great contribution
ok. is this bizarro world, or a spontaneous group april fools joke? nyvelocity suggested a topic. we actually stuck to the topic. good info was shared, questions asked and answered. the only person who got slagged was Alan (which had to be a prank, right? seriously, hating on Alan? why dont you just stop by a church, go up to a statue of the madonna, hock a lugey in her eye, and then use the baptismal font as your personal bidet. we’ll accept a lot around here. hell, there was whole post devoted to taunting lance. dont f’ck with alan tho. we’ll check your ip address and cut your nuts off/ovaries out [depending on gender]).
what of the break that drops you and then lets you back on? that one stumped me. seemed like the break liked me enuff so i came back and worked the best i could some more for the general good. didn’t get a great placing but much better than screwing around with the 50 person field.
Great Book Kevin. I got drop on the second chapter.
even when I spend the intired time at the back sucking wheel.
that’s probably the best post i’ve ever read on this site.
I remember my first P12 race, at Unionvalle, the refree said it was neutral to the circle a mile down the road…I laughed, as I thought that was irrelevant with a 72 mile hilly race in front of us….literally hit the circle, the King brothers took off and i was sprinting, and they were GONE. 2 miles into race….and it was a full sprint, and the winner was already determined.
Agreed – 5 guys will win the sprints…everybody else should be giving it everything to get into breakaways.
Tactics and team play is pretty overrated in the races we do….good riders ride hard and usually break people down and win. That is more aparent in teh higher categories.
if you are in a break you should work, period. usually if you are not working, guys will either stop working and the break is shot (decreasing your own chances) or if you are in a group with some pros, they will take turns taking you off the back until you are shot, then attack you, bridge back to the break and get on with the job at hand.
if you are not going to work in a break, then don’t go with the break, get your team to control the race and ride for the field sprint if you think you are that good a field sprinter. even if you are a sprinter you should roll through and take your pulls in the break as the odds are always better in a group of 5 or 10 than in a field sprint.
what gets me even more is that guys who aren’t good field sprinters won’t even work in a break because they have a sprinter way back in the field. that is a ridiculous excuse given that the odds of winning a field sprint are almost always less advantageous than having a 1 in 5 shot out of a break.
part of the reason that guys get away with riding like idiots around here in breaks is the lack of challenging terrain in the park races. i think kirkwood last weekend was a great example – with 20mph head and cross winds there was not a lot of “sitting on” in the break or the field.
you can learn a ton about race tactics just by watching a bunch of 1 day race videos. don’t watch the tour when everyone is trying to defend bizarre jerseys, but watch the belgian classics. those guys attack, work their tails off for 2 minutes, then look back and try to figure out what is going on. as i’m sure DJ will confirm, if you sit on a break in belgium / france, you are going into the gutter 1st if they are nice, then you are going down – literally you will be taken out.
ever wonder why univest is such a tough race? those freaking euros attack at the gun with 100 miles to go, there is no such thing as tactics until you up by 2 minutes with a group of 3 or 4. i was in 53×13 sprinting out of corners just trying to stay on a wheel with 98 miles to go a few years back when the belgians / boonen showed up and dropped the hammer from the moment the flag dropped.
just ride hard, don’t be afraid to take some risks. after all, there are only about 5 or 6 guys who win the field sprints around here. the other 95 dudes in the spring series race should be on the attack!
I’ve seen guys blow their races so many times by worry about someone sitting on a break. If someone is sitting on there is always a reason. They are either a sprinter, are gassed or are clueless. I learned a great lesson a long time ago from Doug O’Neil. Rather than freaking out about what someone in the break is or isn’t doing, he would just get on with cheerfully riding away from the field. It seems work pretty well for him.
Who is the one guy in the local scene who is better from a field sprint than a break?
If you want him there, I think it’s totally acceptable to let a guy who bridged up take a few minutes to recover. The guy who bridged should just tell everyone what he’s doing.
you bridge across solo to the winning break that has 3 TT guys & 1 sprinter and decide to miss a rotation to catch your breath, is this a problem? The “sprinter” in that Masters group Sunday thought so. I was willing to work, but he sat up and “gapped me” after I waved him through. I was still pegged. Once he did that I refused to jump back, called his bluff and literally waved “bye bye” to the winning break for him (and me). No way he’d have the chance to win if I could help it.
The odd thing was the TT guys in the break said the sprinter wasn’t working anyway?
Am I wrong for trying to catch my breath so I could work soon after bridging?? The “sprinter” thought so.
If you make the breaks, pull as often as you can and share the load. If the other guys are stronger consider their efforts and maybe don’t sprint if they can’t drop you (and you’ve done nothing but hang on for dear life).
If guys just come up, give them a rest, it may pay off for you later when they can really help.
This is a tough one because most racers only think about themselves.
Also has a good point about spreading the wealth & working deals. Work where you best suited. Don’t just sit on endlessly.
the wisdom of yoda young jedi
agree with DJ, in the pack there are much more variables than in a break, odds are the smaller break will always be easier to sprint against than the whole pack with other sprinters and leadouts in it stacked against you, unless you’re fassa bortolo 😉
If you have no intention on working in the break ie: your teammate is points leader and didn’t make the break, or it’s just too hard, you are better off sitting at the back and not rotating through. To “pretend” to rotate through, and slow the pace is wrong. What you do at the end depends on the above. If you are working for your leader than yes, save yourself and outsprint the others to take away the points. If you are hanging on for dear life than it would be in bad taste to contest the sprint. That being said, it is up to you to decide how to play it, you are racing to win. You will soon develop a poor reputation if you are sitting on for no real reason, and contest it in the end, and find that the same racers will not work with you in the future.
that’s a serious q … im trying to figure out how to be minimally disruptive to the guys working
If the winning move is up the road why wouldn’t a sprinter try to be in it? Its not like we’re riding around in teams 9 with very definitive roles. Also, in a 6 lap CP race its not like riding hard in a break on lap 3 is going to ruin one’s chance of doing well in a sprint. It could hurt you but its a calculated risk.
a break a few years goes on the first time up HH, the field is chasing at 5-10 seconds until Tavern when finally they leave us to it…we do the first 4 laps in 13s or less, and we have 1:30 with 3 to go…Everyone that should be there is, save a few sleepy heads not near the front on the first lap…During the break, I say “its better for me to pull only on flat or downhill (for obvious reasons), and the climbers, seem to think its a benefit, the other puncheurs (Suter, my team mate at the time, Molloy, Kurt G., JP Pineda, Kev Monaghan, etc), accept that the break is working well enough, they can’t get rid of me on the last lap when everyone takes a turn trying to go solo or smaller group, and I hang in there and counter like a bat out of hell from Summer Stage…and win!
Tactics, some fitness, Central Park “knowledge”, and a “friendly” break underestimated me that day…I never said, let me sit-I won’t sprint, I simply defined when and where I would work for the benefit of the group as well as to my benefit. And I got lucky! To get into a breakaway, takes some initiative, and then some managemet of whatever resources, less yellin, more workin!
peace out!
And I am not the end all, as I said in an earlier post, just my perspective.FWIW.
Have Fun! Shake Hands! Come out Racing!
pure sprinter of a team be in the break? Wouldn’t other teammates have that obligation so that, let’s say a Ricky Lowe can sit in and wait for the field sprint? Just askin.
but mebbe i misread.
I’m in a break, i’m outmatched and can’t pull. i think i can hang on and not get dropped, mebbe even recover, so no chance im bailing out.
do i sit on at the back, staying behind each guy after he pulls off?
or go through the rotation but just dont pull?
that is a funny story, but I gotta point out that the yelling guy has just as valid a point as you did. Why sit on a break to protect 6th place. Silly. Better to work and not get caught from behind, me thinks. Also better to be a contributor to the break for general karma. So, Karma plus self protection vs saving the non-crucial 6th place in a small race. Sounds like you make your own case against yourself.
“that is a funny story, but I gotta point out that the yelling guy has just as valid a point as you did. Why sit on a break to protect 6th place. Silly. Better to work and not get caught from behind, me thinks.”
Why is protecting 6th silly but working harder to guarantee 10th a good idea?
i like that bush/mccain photo
if i were obama, i’d make that my campaign poster for the general election
I’m in a three-person group with a few miles to go in one of the minor races at Harriman, with our group going for roughly tenth place. We’ll probably stay clear of the field, but it’s not certain. The winning group is out of sight but a teammate of mine is in a group of four guys ten or 20 seconds ahead, going for maybe sixth place. So I decide to sit on my group and tell the other two guys why. One just gets on with it and rides. The other starts berating me. That’s his perogative, but the funny part is him screaming at me “What the fack are you saving it for, it’s just a little race!!! It’s not THAT important” To which I answer “Well, if it’s not that important, what are you so worked up about?”
Wish I had some gum to give him
Thanks for that Sgt. Slaughter. I’ll remember that next time I storm the castle, but in bike racing, I’ll keep to my simple rube tactics of “are we getting away from the field?” if yes, then “is everyone pulling enough”, if yes, then “are we far enough away to start playing games?”
What DJ said isn’t necessarily true. If I’m a sprinter, and even if I’m not Wilson (Gavin, JCM, Louden), I still want the race to come down to a sprint.
disagree, any sprinter has a better chance in a break than if pulled back in the pack
Are you Kevin Molloy, or Ricky Lowe? If I’m Kevin, I feel better about my chances. If I’m Ricky, I’m probably more vulnerable in the break, and gonna be attacked over and over again as we get closer. What kind of sprinter am I?
I think, if you are in a break, and, for some situation, cannot,or,will not pull, for whatever reason, it would be nice if you could contribute something special. Doesn’t have to be expensive, or fancy–could be just a stick of a chewing gum. Or tell a funny story. Working in the break can be stressful, and guys like to hear a funny story. Could be about a silly helmet you saw, a Gacki reminiscence, or maybe your powertap numbers. But, bring a little something to the table if you’re not gonna pull 100 percent.
have you ever heard of this thing that they call a “leadout” ? I think that this leadout thing is known to help sprinters win field sprints… going out on a limb here…
It’s all about getting out of sight quickly in teh parks…I think that it is so early in teh morning that most guys forget you are up the road
If you are a fred, jump in every break you can…good breaks, bad breaks, whatever. Your job though is to never ever miss a pull. You are there to learn, not play tactical games with the big boys or Ann Marie if your in a womans race 🙂
watch how the guys who win manipulate the situation and add that to your bag of tricks.
before you know it, you’ll have legs and smarts!
In the military they call it situational awareness. Once you
can roll the park loops at 50k… that is just how they roll…
Hey dude – whose up the road in the break? Should we chase now?
rolling a break in the parks is really hard. most of them die cause even a crap field can roll a lap at 45 k. race out of town and you see the speed at the end of a 100 k can be pretty slow, 40k or so.
Igor always does the right thing in the break – 100% effort, and yells at you for going too slow if you try to sit on. His results speak for themselves…
When I’m in a break at Prospect and someone isn’t pulling I like to ride out the Grand Army Plaza exit and then do a couple laps on Flatbush Avenue, and then stop at Ollie’s for a scone and that usually drops them.
If that doesn’t work, I usually bust a fart that smells like Jacques Anquetil’s grave.
Geez, I got dropped about 1/3 through that post.
At the very least, if you are in the break and unwilling to work, stay on the back and keep out of the way. Don’t enter the rotation and pull off before you hit the front. Don’t accelerate up the side alone, gap the break and then stop pulling. Unless, of course, you are actively trying to disrupt the break, maybe playing out a grudge against someone – maybe that would explain the above antics. I am still trying to figure out Jon’s tactics in the break on Sun. as this relates to him.
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Auction this weekend, includes some old racing machines
Sorry for the post here but
Im looking for Phillip Coppola
does anyone have his info?
or Phillip if you read this drop me an email.
Cheers
MQ
and oh yeah if you’re ever on a break dont pull a Johan Brunnil.
payback it a Bitch
real cycling fans will know what im talking about.
I don
But, not surprising news:
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Why in the Masters Race in Prospect do they use the brakes going downhill ?..this was all very confusing to me this past Sunday, besides being only 32 degrees
see cooperation with everyone pulling through while the break is trying to get away/stay away. When its pretty clear the break will stick, the cooperation ends and the tactics begin.
And that rider was our friend Johan Bruyneel.
I wish I could quit you…nuff said
the master has spoken, listen up
In the TDF there are riders who don’t pull at all. Back when Big Mig was king of the TdF he was in a two man break where his companion did not pull at all. He just sat behind Indurain until the end where he predictably came around and won the sprint. Miguel knew the situation but still pulled the guy to the end because he know he was making enough time gains to help him win the race. He was not too concerned with the stage win.
check the coaching section
there is no hard and fast rule. deal with it. become a diplomat or some form of persuasion is part of the art, even dark art. team tactics? keep the sucker if his team is blocking, then gap him repeatedly off the back at the bottom of a hill/cross winds. stay focused and organized or go back to field to reshuffle the hand being dealt. Don’t go up the road only to get dropped from the field, unless it is last gasp/mile of the race…otherwise race from the gun, there is only one rider locally more likely to win in a field sprint than in a break, so everyone else should be riding to isolate his team and get up the road. At the same time, his team has no reason to work more than is needed to help his team win, or otherwise achieve the team’s best results…figure it out quickly or suffer the consequences.
not that many breaks can STAY away if everyone isn’t contributing.
if you’re in the break don’t fuck it up. that means follow the rotation and take a short or non-pull. just move on through the rotation. if you aren’t strong enough to do that then start offering to pay everyone else in the break for letting you sit on. i’m serious. offers should be more than entry fee to the race. chances are they will try to drop you anyway.
So the Johnny Cake Lane Results are up (no one cares I know), anyway, I noticed that in the B race, the same few Canadians that were dropped in week 1 from the A race entered the B race (they are Cat1s and 2s) and all placed high but did not win. Really poor on their part to race the Bs if they are 1s and 2s. Also, some guys who were dropped took a free lap and hopped back in for a finish above some of the guys in the A group who finished the full 9 laps. That is really lame. If you want a finishing place then do the whole race.
What field you are in. If you are a 3 and get in a break in a PRo1-3 race you may want to do everything you can to just hold on. Take a few short pulls every few turns. If you are in a evenly matched break and want to stay away then you should work until the last couple laps/miles. Then every man for themselves. Depends on the rider and the break group. If you are all sprinters, all TT guys, etc.
I agree if you are outmatched there is nothing wrong with stating so and offering to pull a quickie every few rotations, which does help the break a bit. It goes without saying that you cede your effort to win the race in this case however – only proper thing to do would be to let the others win if you survive with this strategy. Some might say its ok to go for the win, but I say they have no sense of cycling ethics. Cylcling does offer chances to show you are a grown man, not a man-child.
Of course its fair game in an evenly matched contest to mess around and try to conserve energy for the win, but of course you risk the break failing or getting caught. This is just part of the game and totally fair. In the TdF there are no riders who dont pull at all, just those who get accused of slacking in relative sense. Its a fine line, and up to the rider to make a decision of how hard to work and whether its win at all costs or win like a Hard Man.
If you are in the break take your pull. If guys are not pulling attack them. Do not take them to the finish line they will out sprint you. Work together like you are teammates and then stab them all in the back at the end.
1st… but no man hugs for anyone
Me?! In a breakaway?! I don’t think so….
You clearly don’t know me…
discuss
you should take your pulls
As a lowly 4, one thing I’ve noticed is that it seems that breakaways in our field take a long time to organize themselves. And when they do organize, it’s not a smooth rotating paceline, but guys hanging out for a while in front proving their manhood. In my experience outside of racing, a continually rotating paceline has been the fastest way to get a group going. But maybe some hgher category racers with more experience with successful breaks can illumine the rest of us on what really works best.