Coaching
It seems that coaches are everywhere theses days. Does a Cat 1 upgrade mean you automatically start telling other guys how to ride? And then try to charge them for it? Back when I started, there weren’t any coaches; we just bought the Eddie B. book and did the classic stuff: rest Monday, sprints Tuesday, long day Wednesday, intervals Thursday, easy Friday, race over the weekend, repeat. Take every fourth week easy.
The question is: are coaches any more effective than just buying every book out there and doing it yourself? Does the reward justify the cost? $200 a month, I don’t even spend that much on alcohol! And have you ever heard a coach talk about another coach? And I thought I was catty…
Some are more coachable than others.
Previous arguments here
thanks for posting that pic, one of my favorite movies. you cant beat a coach who drinks beer in the dugout and gives some to ten year olds
In all sports you WILL get better with the RIGHT coach. Anyone who thinks differently just hasn’t had the right coach / athlete relationship. If you can afford $100 tubulars and $5000 bikes with $1500 wheels – then $200 per month on a coach is well spent, providing your raison d’etre is to get faster not look better. Of course it depends on the right coach for you. What works ofr one person might not work for another – a good coach will adapt to suit the athlete, it shouldn’t be vice versa.
you crca loosers just need to ride your bikes
We can’t get any "looser", loser!
Don’t you guys know that it’s better to look good than to feel good
who’s your coach, looser boy?
A coach isn’t a bad idea. Imagine trying to build a house without a contractor.
Why no wind tunnel in NYC ?
Ahh, yes, the Eddie B. book! Dead brill. I still have my dog-eared copy from back in the late ’80s. It was THE BIBLE for road racers and gave sound, solid advice in a decidedly unscientific manner, unlike a few of today’s tomes (e.g., Friel). Science has come a long way since then, but it’s a very refreshing, matter-of-fact, back-to-basics read that will make one a stronger, faster, much more complete rider. My cap’s doffed to Eddie B.
It is just another convenience like restaurant delivery (instead of cooking it yourself)
I respectfully disagree with JMANYC. It’s not at all about the convenience, but about the quality of the workouts, the experience being passed on by the coach, the working relationship between coach/rider, and the issues of peaking, overtraining, and quality vs. quantity. Sure, coaches aren’t cheap, but you’re paying for their knowledge, experience, and some science thrown in there, not just as a "lazy" way to do your training rides.
coaching is useful unless it’s done by someone like ann marie that has her riders doing drills in the worst spots and the busiest times in the park…
coaching is useful unless it’s done by someone like ann marie that has her riders doing drills in the worst spots and the busiest times in the park…
I started cycling at 37 and no room for trial and error. I was lucky enough to train with Craig Upton. Money well spent. Craig is a great coach with clients that range from local racers to season professionals. The structured program keeps you motivated and he tailor fits your workouts for your individual numbers. There are no false promises what you put into the program is what you get out of it. I almost completed my first year and improved greatly with losing 25 extra pounds while producing much more wattage. You have a choice buy a new wheel set or invest into your future in cycling. uptonperformancesystems.com
Seems to me that there are a lot of ‘training’, and very little ‘coaching’, programs for sale out there. Training programs are everywhere. Good ones, at that.
What seems in desperately short supply is someone who will actually spend time with you to maximize outcomes given what training you have done. Almost every coach I have seen can pick up fairly quickly on what your specific limiters are and will assign workouts to help improve them. But then what? What about the mental part of the game? What about teaching you how to win? What about giving you techniques that help you minimize the damage from your weaknesses? Better tactics?
"You’re still a crappy climber. Still, I think we can do a few things that might help you stay with the main group…"
"I’ve actually won that race 4 times. Here are a couple of things YOU should watch out for and what you should be thinking if they start to happen…"
I need coached, not trained.
If all you are looking for are the training plans save your money.
Its necessary for the athlete to give the coach alot of feedback and ask questions to make the experience worthwhile. You will get faster with the right coach but there is more to it than just doing the workouts.
listen to what you are saying. cat 2 for ten years and riding most of your life. how many younger years wasted on messing around with the program of others
Is not me a cat2. I was referring to a very well respected forum member on another board. He has been a cat2 and now a cat1 in Colorado. Frequently invited to race in France. How many our local cat1 or 2 frequently invited and race in Europe??? He is not just your regular cat2. He didn’t have the right gene to push him to be a pro, according to him.
To elaborate on the views given by "Coached or Trained". A "trainer" concentrates on the development of the athletes physical potential. Lately there has been a quantum leap in this area, with the advent of scientific training and advanced, computerized training tools. I don’t think anyone will argue that the aggregate fitness of the cycling community has increased in the past few years as a result. In other words, we can all produce more watts nowadays. Also, one need not be in the physical presence of the athlete to manage the athlete’s training load, and this has allowed the "CTS-model" to thrive, which many others have successfully copied.
Coaching, on the other hand, involves teaching the athlete how to perform during competition, and evaluating the competitive performance afterward with an eye toward a better performance subsequently. I have seen only two examples of real coaching, both at the velodrome, where the coach was able to observe and critique the athletic performance. A coach must be able to see you perform in order to help you perform better next time. Our sport doesn’t easily lend itself to the observation necessary for performance feedback, but how many of us would love to have someone tell us what we did right or wrong, and how we might alter our performance next time for a better result? I can think of no other sport where technique and competitive performance is so largely ignored. The market is saturated with trainers at this point, but there is a HUGE untapped demand for actual coaching in our sport.
There are coaches that race amongst us and offer feedback.
Name them. The ones I know of don’t race in my field, and even if they did they way too concerned with their own athletic performance to spend any meaningful amount of time observing and studying mine.
talk to greg olsen about coaching…this is his first year racing and how many times has he kicked everyone’s butts so far this year? we totally rag on him about his watt meter and his workouts but it obviously works…i’d rather make my own conclusions based on results i’ve seen rather than the so called "wisdom" of the masses…
talk to greg olsen about coaching…this is his first year racing and how many times has he kicked everyone’s butts so far this year? we totally rag on him about his watt meter and his workouts but it obviously works…i’d rather make my own conclusions based on results i’ve seen rather than the so called "wisdom" of the masses…
talk to greg olsen about coaching…this is his first year racing and how many times has he kicked everyone’s butts so far this year? we totally rag on him about his watt meter and his workouts but it obviously works…i’d rather make my own conclusions based on results i’ve seen rather than the so called "wisdom" of the masses…
If you want to be efficient with your time and be the best given the effort you put in, you get a good coach. If you want to do it yourself through trail and error you will probably never be your best weather you trian 5 hours a week or 20. Being a cat 1 may not make you a good coach, but it shows you know a thing or two about bike racing. Bottom line is all pro and elite riders get coached.
Jesus, whats with the anon posting on this one – are you all afraid to sign your name to an opinion? Wusses. I think you are the same people who shout out from the back of the pelaton about how so-and-so didn’t attack that hard last race.
As for coaching, I’ve had the pleasure of receiving guidance this season from Francisco Liuzzi (along with many others from Team NYVeloCity – though some on the team also work with Mike and Craig to great success). Id note that:
1) having a coach and actively updated workout schedule tailored to my needs has been a massive motivator – bottom line is I do workouts that last year would have been replaced by excuses – and the workouts are smarter as well.
2) The role of the coach is multi-faceted, but for me it has been a combo of better understanding my weaknesses and focusing on them, and having the support and encouragement to stick to a program that I could NEVER do by riding on my own with or without a power tap and other fancy gear. Simple as that. I dont have a coach that holds my hand at every race or pats by back at the start line (I cant afford that level of seriousness and am just a "looser" CRCA 35 yr old rider anyway…), but Cisco has been instrumental in making me go faster this season by a long stretch (15 lbs lighter and plenty faster, even if I can’t seem to keep my tires inflated when necessary…).
signed anon only because this is the first time i’ve written on this site and didn’t know any better…one thing i can guarantee is that i am NEVER in the back of a pack (also because i don’t know any better)…
signed anon only because this is the first time i’ve written on this site and didn’t know any better…one thing i can guarantee is that i am NEVER in the back of a pack (also because i don’t know any better)…
signed anon only because this is the first time i’ve written on this site and didn’t know any better…one thing i can guarantee is that i am NEVER in the back of a pack (also because i don’t know any better)…
once again…talk to greg olsen about coaches…he’ll be spanking the 1-2-3’s soon too
I’m officially nominating myself as Greg’s style coach. Did anyone else scope his wind vest without jersey combo the other morning in the park? Greg, I love you man, but WOA!
A pitfall of internet coaching?
Okay I’ll chime in here. Victor is spot on.
Igor, I brought to his first race. He proceeded to fall over Nancy’s Modi’s wheel in front of everyone.
Me, his proud coach said; "I’m coaching him."
Andy Witten answered; "You are doing a hell of a job."
I think he turned out okay. What say.
Paul Carbo, Ashely, Carol Gale, Nancy, Elizabeth double E, Catherine Powers, Zeb, Tyler, and hundreds of others while coaching for CRCA and Kissena CC, and now running the development programs at the track working with ACT and STarTracks.
This includes two dozen teams – West Point, Puma, Hilfiger, CBS news, A – bike shop, and others I can’t even remember now. I never charged anyone anything. CRCA gave me what they pay there coaches, usually no one showed up anyway. Puma has me on payroll as rider coach- I didn’t do to bad with the tallet I helped develop. Every a rider needs to help with the fundamentals at ever stage of his career.
Read my coahing articles on this site.
Once you learn the small things the rest comes easy.
If you skip over them you will be talking pig-latin for the rest of your career. Too many riders are stupid strong and win and never learn the small things. Winning is its own curse. People stay away from a winner and will not help him out because he is a threat. The sequestering multiply’s from there until someone sits on him or he quits bored or frustrated doing the same mistakes over and over never challenging himself or taking the next step. We have had many riders good enough to go national or international but because of our live by the sword die by the sword system they are still in CP, over the hill and down the other side.
Don’t be a Five-Year-Plan rider.
That is usually the length of time it takes people to go through this sport and get disenchanted. Take things slow.
If you don’t like to ride a bike for the fun of it, do something else.
I have been asked to coach for professional systems, but I think people learn better from someone who doesn’t have an axe to grind. Lou Maltese my first coach told me; "Money can screw up a wet dream. Do what you feel is right, never say anything in anger, and if you can’t win fair and square don’t race at all." I like Mike Frasee’s knowledgable advice; "Going to a mail order or on line coach is like going to a mail order doctor." Eddy B is still the man and if you don’t think so look what his is doing with the Polish National team. Cook says the right thing in; "Go somewhere far, far away, from CP and come back and tell us all about it. Very good coaching right there and that is for free.
Can someone translate Campo’s post for me. is he really trying to claim credit for Elizabeth Emery and Catherine Powers?
no I claiming credit for anonymous postings by lame asses.