Reader’s request hate: as per the mighty Lee, let’s start with an in depth look at the Red rear derailleur.Â
First of all, the weight. At a legit 146 grams, the Red is an astonishing 20% lighter than Record and Dura Ace. I handed it to my long suffering wife, and even she temporarily suspended her customary revulsion to physical contact with bike parts to be amazed by its lightness.
Next, cable pull. There was some speculation that ‘Exact Actuation’ meant that SRAM shifters pull twice as much cable as Shimano, like their MTB shifters. In reality, Shimano pulls about 23mm total, compared to 28 for SRAM and 27 for Campy. ‘Exact Actuation’ means that SRAM shifters pull the same amount of cable for every shift. If you take a look at Shimano’s (and I assume Campy’s as well) rear derailleur, you’ll see that it pulls progressively more cable as it moves up the cassette, for two reasons. First, the derailleur arcs across a linear array of gears, which means it has to travel through more degrees of sweep to make up the same horizontal distance as it climbs up the cassette.
As the derailleur sweeps up the cassette, it has to pivot more degrees to cover the same distance.
Secondly, as the cable attachment moves away from the cable stop, cable pull becomes less direct and so the shifter has to pull more cable to compensate. My guess is that the Red derailleur compensates for this with a little pulley arm. As you shift down the cassette, the pulley arm intercepts the cable and bends it, so that the actual pulling angle of the cable remains close to a tangent to the arc of the derailleur’s sweep, making the cable pull more consistent. A side benefit is the cable exits straight out of the cable stop through the whole range of shifts, theoretically resulting in less drag and less chance of the cable fraying. Maybe the cable would be less likely to snap after a few millions shifts as well, thanks to the reduced drag.Â
Shimano on the left, SRAM on the right.Â
The cable exits at an angle at either extreme on the Dura Ace derailleur.
Cable stays straight throughout the range of travel on the Red. Note how the arm swings out to bend the cable.
Picture another potential benefit: Let’s say you flat and get a wheel from neutral service. The wheel’s spacing is a little different and your chain is skipping, so you’re forced to fine tune your shifting with the barrel adjusters on your downtube. Now let’s say you adjust it in the wrong direction, so that the shifter’s 3rd gear becomes the derailer’s 4th gear. With Shimano (and maybe Campy, I’m not a Campy guy so I can’t say for sure), your chain will start to skip as you shift, since each shift has a specific amount of cable pull, and your shifter and cassette are mismatched. With SRAM, you’re good to go, since each shift pulls the same amount of cable. The only problem you’ll encounter is at either extreme, where you’ll run out of cable.
One more cool thing about the Red derailleur is the placement of the limit screws. With Shimano (and to a lesser extent Campy), the limit screws are pretty close the the derailleur’s pivot point. This means the screws have less leverage, making them hard to adjust. To be safe, I usually shift one gear away from first or tenth gear to make an adjustment on a Shimano so that it’s not under load and I don’t strip out the Philips head screws. SRAM’s limit screws are very far away from the pivot (about 30mm vs 10 mm), and they accommodate allen keys or flat heads. This means that a finicky quarter turn adjustment on a Shimano equates to 1 or 2 full turns on the SRAM, and the lesser force allows you to adjust it while in first or tenth gear with no fear of stripping out the bolt head.Â
Limit screws on the Red are farther from the pivot point and easier to turn.Â
Time for Hate
SRAM derailers wrap around the cassette more, so that you can’t pop out a wheel without pushing on the knuckle. Wheel changes are a bit slower. Is this extra wrap compensation for the cassette’s missing teeth?
So where does that leave us?
Well, the Red is theoretically superior, but the question is, "Is it significantly superior?" Yes, the limit screw adjustment is easier and more precise, but when was the last time you touched your limit screws? Exact Actuation is clever, but Campy and Shimano work pretty damn well without it. It’s a few bucks more than Campy, and double the price of Shimano.Â
that Sram Red comes with ceramic bearing pulleys. Aftermarket ceramic pulleys for Shimano/Campy go for 100 to 200 bucks depending on the brand/retailer.
where you buying pulleys for 100 bucks? you’re getting ripped off my friend. And its not like those are free upgrade for SRAM. The price difference more than covers pulleys. Cost on a Red is 100 bucks more than a DA. Cost on all the Red shit is totally insane. Shifters are several hundred dollars more than Record. Save your money.
Ceramic bottom bracket and pulley upgrades are all over the internet and are selling. Enduro pulleys go for 100 at Superfly, FSA pulleys go for 129 at Excel, and Ceramic Speed go for 170 at Competitive Cyclist.
Can’t wait till SRAM Blue comes out
I didn’t mention the ceramics because 1. I have no idea if it really helps. I mean, how much drag is there on a pulley? 2. It’s kinda written on the derailleur in plain view.
I tried to only mention features that I hadn’t seen anyone else address before. Red’s been covered to death, no need for me to chime in about the obvious points. So Lee, dunno if I’ll have anything to write about the rest of it, only if I find more things no one’s talke about.
And yeah, it won’t make you any faster.
Seems like Force is the best bang for the buck or maybe even Rival if you want to with SRAM. I see alot of the top Cat1s in the NE racing Rival and love it. Justin Lindine on Target and alot of the Kenda guys use the Rival and Force. Red seems to be overpriced for a small upgrade in performance if any.
Similar to buying record over Chorus or Centaur. The weight savings is not worth the price.
If you guys just trained harder, you wouldn’t have to worry about the slight differences between DA and SRAM.
People are always upgrading to justify or convince themselves that they will go faster: “well maybe if I buy a carbon stem as opposed to an aluminum stem, then I will save 4 grams and go 3 seconds fast in the race.”
Instead just ride harder and you won’t have to convince yourself of upgrades. Plus, if you like the stuff, just because its cool, then you should become a rapper, make more money, and have much bigger nicer things – like 7 Cadilacs with chrome spinners for each dya of the week.
wheel porn alert. cyclingnews.com has a special double page spread on the wheels of ghent wevelgem.
well the Red rear mech is basically a road version of the mtn derailleurs they’ve been doing forever. Super similar. Perhaps thats why no one mentioned anything about it? Its not ground breaking. Its a derailleur.
Has a Ridley Excalibur with SRAM Rival for about $1900. That is a sick deal for a race rig. Not the most blinged out in the park but it will win races!
the excalibur w/rival is really $3227. frame alone is $1799
1900 bucks for a race bike?! that is crazy talk. I think mine was 400.
When you guys gonna learn its not what you’re sitting on that wins you races…..
i take that back it is $1900 in the specials section. that is a great deal.
true that it’s not what you’re sitting on that will win you races but after a few years most bikes get old and crusty and its a lot of fun picking the next one
you ride your bike for more than one season?
i race the ___ out of my bikes. and then i keep them.
Sounds like a sommerville sports special to me. now that’s a deal! I like it. Did that rig come stock with Sora too? In fact, if i recall those bikes have already won a couple of races this season. (not the riders of course, just the bikes)
We can discuss the pros and cons of new, high end equipment and even purchase it without thinking it’s going to make us faster or is going to win us races. We understand this, there’s no need to keep reminding.
DO you really understand that?
Pro, its good, just like every other high end component.
Con, is uber expensive.
that sommerville sports bike actually came stock with super record 6spd.
Lets have a discussion on high end bar tape, the pros and cons.
Or perhaps, the pros and cons of brake pads.
but only really high end brake pads, non of those clark pads. can we make some graphs describing the 60-0 stopping distance without locking up the rear wheel on a wet downhill please?
Love the guy who rocks the $400 alum frame with full SRAM Red (I think) and Campy Boras. Like putting $6000 rims on a hugo.
on Brian’s blog.
road dearilers different than mtn ones
no shit. the theory is the same, the manner in which they execute the exact actuation is sllightly different, get over it.
first off, that shit ain’t sram red, nor are those boras. take a closer look, its a joke.
and apparently all you guys fell for it. Its nice that decals make wheels seem expensive.
You’re now spending time researching this? man, let it go. It shifts up and down the cog, thats all that matters.
why can’t you admit you’re wrong?
You have not proven it yet, just because there is no mention of it in the MTB section does not mean it isn’t there!
What’s a Hugo?
I don’t see how that mtb derailer would have even cable pull. There’s no mechanism there to do it. But like I said, it’s cute and clever (which I like), but that doesn’t mean it works any better.
the sram X.O derailleur is 1:1 pull and FAR superior to the Shimano XTR. Curious to see how the RED stacks up against DurAce
To be honest, the differences are so subtle it’s hard to say. Both DA and Red seem to shift better with the red cassette, but my DA stuff is so old it’s not a fair comparison. Anyone else?
Oh, and I think I read somewhere (can’t find it now) that Zinn thinks Shimano shifts a little better.
as long as it goes into the 12, i don’t care.
you mean the 11.
you mean the 11.
as long as it goes into the 12, i don’t care.
Oh, and I think I read somewhere (can’t find it now) that Zinn thinks Shimano shifts a little better.
To be honest, the differences are so subtle it’s hard to say. Both DA and Red seem to shift better with the red cassette, but my DA stuff is so old it’s not a fair comparison. Anyone else?
the sram X.O derailleur is 1:1 pull and FAR superior to the Shimano XTR. Curious to see how the RED stacks up against DurAce
What’s a Hugo?
I don’t see how that mtb derailer would have even cable pull. There’s no mechanism there to do it. But like I said, it’s cute and clever (which I like), but that doesn’t mean it works any better.
why can’t you admit you’re wrong?
You have not proven it yet, just because there is no mention of it in the MTB section does not mean it isn’t there!
first off, that shit ain’t sram red, nor are those boras. take a closer look, its a joke.
and apparently all you guys fell for it. Its nice that decals make wheels seem expensive.
You’re now spending time researching this? man, let it go. It shifts up and down the cog, thats all that matters.
no shit. the theory is the same, the manner in which they execute the exact actuation is sllightly different, get over it.
road dearilers different than mtn ones
on Brian’s blog.
Yeah, I really understand that.
Love the guy who rocks the $400 alum frame with full SRAM Red (I think) and Campy Boras. Like putting $6000 rims on a hugo.
that sommerville sports bike actually came stock with super record 6spd.
Lets have a discussion on high end bar tape, the pros and cons.
Or perhaps, the pros and cons of brake pads.
but only really high end brake pads, non of those clark pads. can we make some graphs describing the 60-0 stopping distance without locking up the rear wheel on a wet downhill please?
DO you really understand that?
Pro, its good, just like every other high end component.
Con, is uber expensive.
Sounds like a sommerville sports special to me. now that’s a deal! I like it. Did that rig come stock with Sora too? In fact, if i recall those bikes have already won a couple of races this season. (not the riders of course, just the bikes)
i race the ___ out of my bikes. and then i keep them.
you ride your bike for more than one season?
When you guys gonna learn its not what you’re sitting on that wins you races…..
i take that back it is $1900 in the specials section. that is a great deal.
true that it’s not what you’re sitting on that will win you races but after a few years most bikes get old and crusty and its a lot of fun picking the next one
1900 bucks for a race bike?! that is crazy talk. I think mine was 400.
the excalibur w/rival is really $3227. frame alone is $1799
Has a Ridley Excalibur with SRAM Rival for about $1900. That is a sick deal for a race rig. Not the most blinged out in the park but it will win races!
well the Red rear mech is basically a road version of the mtn derailleurs they’ve been doing forever. Super similar. Perhaps thats why no one mentioned anything about it? Its not ground breaking. Its a derailleur.
wheel porn alert. cyclingnews.com has a special double page spread on the wheels of ghent wevelgem.
If you guys just trained harder, you wouldn’t have to worry about the slight differences between DA and SRAM.
People are always upgrading to justify or convince themselves that they will go faster: “well maybe if I buy a carbon stem as opposed to an aluminum stem, then I will save 4 grams and go 3 seconds fast in the race.”
Instead just ride harder and you won’t have to convince yourself of upgrades. Plus, if you like the stuff, just because its cool, then you should become a rapper, make more money, and have much bigger nicer things – like 7 Cadilacs with chrome spinners for each dya of the week.
red curious
Lance won with Dura-Ace, I am sure it’s good for me(Well, may be Lance had other help but we won’t go there). Nice test though Andy, thank you!
Lee, keep riding 🙂
I didn’t mention the ceramics because 1. I have no idea if it really helps. I mean, how much drag is there on a pulley? 2. It’s kinda written on the derailleur in plain view.
I tried to only mention features that I hadn’t seen anyone else address before. Red’s been covered to death, no need for me to chime in about the obvious points. So Lee, dunno if I’ll have anything to write about the rest of it, only if I find more things no one’s talke about.
And yeah, it won’t make you any faster.
Seems like Force is the best bang for the buck or maybe even Rival if you want to with SRAM. I see alot of the top Cat1s in the NE racing Rival and love it. Justin Lindine on Target and alot of the Kenda guys use the Rival and Force. Red seems to be overpriced for a small upgrade in performance if any.
Similar to buying record over Chorus or Centaur. The weight savings is not worth the price.
Can’t wait till SRAM Blue comes out
where you buying pulleys for 100 bucks? you’re getting ripped off my friend. And its not like those are free upgrade for SRAM. The price difference more than covers pulleys. Cost on a Red is 100 bucks more than a DA. Cost on all the Red shit is totally insane. Shifters are several hundred dollars more than Record. Save your money.
Ceramic bottom bracket and pulley upgrades are all over the internet and are selling. Enduro pulleys go for 100 at Superfly, FSA pulleys go for 129 at Excel, and Ceramic Speed go for 170 at Competitive Cyclist.
that Sram Red comes with ceramic bearing pulleys. Aftermarket ceramic pulleys for Shimano/Campy go for 100 to 200 bucks depending on the brand/retailer.