FBF May 13, 2014
This was a race on a pretty windy night that my teammate Aaron, Lesnek S of WS United and Jesus M of Triangle Cyclists took advantage of and got away on about lap two or so. They worked hard and Jesus took the win with Aaron finishing third. I stayed in the pack and covered any moves, and then sprinted for 9th place. All in all, it was an average night at FBF, unless you were in the break, then it was probably a lot like giving birth.
FBF May 20, 2014
There was an almost hard wind blowing, which meant that there was a slight chance of the race splitting like the two weeks previous, but there was also a good chance of a field sprint because Sam F was in yellow and his Triangle Cyclists team were riding the race like it was the Four de France, sitting on any move that had a split and chasing down everything.
I—because I cannot win a field sprint without the aid of an act of God or a serious calamity (foreshadowing!)—do not choose to race in the style of the Four de France. To increase my chances of success, I need to get away. It’s a hard way to race, and it gets maddening when you’re trying to detach yourself from a team that’s dedicated to reattach you to the rest of the race.
We rolled off last night, and I was slightly optimistic because break had worked the previous two weeks. But it soon became apparent that Triangle was snuffing out everything that showed any promise. I will confess and say that I was a little frustrated with being the candle that kept getting blown out. I pulled off the front waaaay wide a few times and that’s not wise when riding with a pack that has some inexperienced riders in it—riders who don’t yet realize that sometimes guys get frustrated and ride like jerks. For that, I apologize and I will not do it again.
Which bring us to…
The field sprint. With two to go, the writing was on the wall. It was going to be a field sprint. Having sprinted at FBF for about 20 years now (I am old), I know where to be and when to be there. I can usually weasel my way into the top ten, even in 123 fields, through guile and experience. I also know when I have a good shot at success. If the last lap is fast and strung out, I have a chance because I can power my way to the finish and any jumps from real sprinters are blunted by the high speed.
That’s what was happening last night. Sam’s team went to the front on the last lap and were pushing the pace. He had two teammates (including the green jersey and last week’s winner Jesus) working for him. I got his wheel between turns one and two, and worked to stay there. I was on the Triangle train after we hit turn three and things were looking good. They were pushing the pace and the race was lined out at the front. We were in the crosswind section, so I was in the gutter with about a half shoulder’s width to spare, as riding right on the gutter would have been a bit precarious.
Halfway between turns three and four, Sam decided to get right into the gutter to keep anyone from being shielded from the wind on his right. Normally, this wouldn’t be a surprise, but in this case, Sam decided to move right in the space of about five meters, eliminating any reaction to his move other than screaming, rubbing a front wheel and leaking some urine into your chamois pad. My front wheel rubbed Sam’s rear wheel, I reacted to stay upright and I became the first rider to not crash. There was a chorus of scraping, contact and grunts behind me, and my heart dropped because I knew all that activity flowed from my rear wheel.
Sam had shut the door, and he had shut it hard. I have been chopped by the best (James J is a true master of the chop, and I’ve seen his work firsthand for many years), and this was without doubt a chop. Was it an artfully executed one? Not really, Sam just went hard to the right without any concern for those around him. You may say that I shouldn’t have been overlapping wheels at that point in the race, but it was a crosswind section, and if you don’t overlap wheels in a sprint, that’s not really a sprint.
I could be tremendously generous here and say that maybe Sam didn’t realize that there was anyone on his right, but that would suppose that Sam knows nothing about the FBF crosswind, and well, he was riding the crosswind correctly all night before the sprint, and he moved right to stay out of the wind in the sprint. That makes me think he knows a bit about wind. You could also say that what he did was “just bike racing”, and it is—really stupid and needlessly aggressive bike racing that knocks all of you competition to the ground.
And if that’s the way he wants to sprint, I can’t really do anything about it except protest when he does it again—but that doesn’t really help the guys who hit the ground last night.
Post that GoPro video?
I was about 4 bikes behind Frias and have the crash caught on my GoPro
and post the link.
Both known assholes but one wins bikeraces. the other crashes 20 guys trying to be the other guy. ……..Word!
Thanks Carlos for clearing up his background. I forgot about mountain bikers coming to road.
SCHMALZ – As someone stated earlier you are keeper of your own front wheel. Do you expect the yellow jersey to ride with his head backwards the entire race to see if someone is over lapping his wheel? Simply don’t stick you wheel where it doesn’t belong if your not ready to pay the possible penalty.
I did protect my front wheel. He hit it, and I stayed up. Obviously, I was prepared for that happening because I didn’t fall.
BUT we were in a crosswind section, and the chain reaction that resulted took everybody down. There’s no way Sam didn’t think that shutting the door wouldn’t cause people to at least hit the brakes, otherwise he wouldn’t have done it.
A racer who gave any shits about anyone else in the race would’ve thought twice about shoving the whole race into the gutter in a crosswind right before the sprint.
shootthegap – you’re a fucking idiot
Victor Rivnut – you obviously have never tried to approach Sam to talk to him about his racing tactics. To say he gets defensive immediately is an understatement
We have a great group of guys in the A race for the most part. All different backgrounds, ages, shapes and sizes. Yes some guys are super aggressive, but nobody is dangerous on purpose. I also am super impressed most every week by the handling skills of most regarding the obstacles and bumping at speed. It is never boring as there is always a move and the finishes are far from predictable. Quintessential NYC racing. If you are a 3, give it a shot as you will probably fare better than you think and possibly learn a lot.
In a sprint at FBF last August He put his head down and rear-ended a rider and sent him to the ambulance. This guy should be bared.
does it always double post me?
But not that last time.
Crashes happen. We all know that. It is part the sports. But for the good of the FBF series and the local race community that we all love Sammy should sit out a ride and stripped of his yesterday’s points. Reading other posts at other clubs as well as this site, as tensions rise and retaliation thoughts escalate, this can be no good for the either Charlie or for all the racers that look forward to this Tuesday Night Series. If this was a 1st time occurrence, I think we all understand, but as that is not the case and the reputation of that racer gets to the point that retaliation is being voiced….this is no good for the local race scene. Charlie….do the right thing
WTF do you expect Charlie to do. He’s the promoter. If the USA cycling official didn’t do anything, what recourse does Charlie have. How many racers protested to the official after the race? I’m guessing just a few or he would have been DQ’d. People get DQ’d all the time. Last Thursday Sam got chopped and he ended on the ground. Charlie just can’t ban someone if they haven’t been sanctioned in some way by USAC. If more of you had protested after instead of just whining on here, then maybe he would have been DQ’d and potentially suspended. If the official said you should curb him, report the official, but that sounds to me that you didn’t lodge an official protest. I just don’t understand how you expect Charlie to ban one guy because you asked him to. Maybe the video will back you up, but you’ll still need to go through USAC.
It was chaos last night…Charlie was where he should be; tending to the carnage. Anybody who could protest was not able to. 20/20 hindsight is always perfect. My point is this is not going away and is not setting up well for the future. Are all customers welcome into the store
Charlie has every authority to ban the guy. He certainly also has the authority to suggest that the official take it seriously. It’s his business, and he specifically warned him just last week not to sprint like an idiot….everyone knew who he was talking about.
It’s a small scene, everyone knows everyone, and no one (including the officials) wants to rock the boat, but sometimes you have to stick your neck out and do the right thing.
how come Charlie is still on aol?
I race a lot with Sam and he is aggressive so you need to know that. I have never had to have words with him beside a couple cuss words here and there at the races. No problem. If you are concerned about dangerous riding though, report if to the officials or stfu.
“…when I am one of the many anonymous racers on Tuesday…”
You are not anonymous there– you sign your mane on a form and show your face.
Here, you’re anonymous and can justifiably be ignored.
…if you were a horse, of course.
Dan it sounds like you are struggling to be somewhat diplomatic about this. But if someone does something exceedingly dangerous ON PURPOSE without regard to the safety of others then he needs to be suspended.
Dan, that’s the most well written race report you’ve ever done.
I wasn’t there but heard that over 20 riders went down. I was once told by an official after I complained about a dangerous rider that “he needs a parking lot re-adjustment”. FBF is a pretty big parking lot. I think Sammy F and his South Shore friends need some “re-adjusting”.
Its too bad that an offical says the fix is the vigilante approach.
That was my response to the official too.
But if the officials won’t take any action, maybe that’s the only solution. Do you have a better idea?
I looked up Jesus Martinez, he won every cat 5 race this year, he is very strong for a cat 3 and is a 4. Clearly some of these guys have quite a bit of racing experience and likely immigrated to the US and now have to go through the system. Unfortunately like Dan said they are treating a cat 4, 40+ cat 3 race on a Tuesday night like a major PRO race. Shutting the door aggressively like that…not sportsman like and I think Dan could have easily had Sam Frias DQed. For a guy who won the whole thing last year, you would think he would be easier going. I almost went down, broke a few spokes when someone hit me from the side. Thinking of changing my mid week training to Thursdays.
Sam F crashed hard doing the same shit just this past Thursday night at Floyd. That’s just dumb racing.
Ask JJ to help. He’ll know what to do.
He’ll never say he’s sorry! In his F***’d up mind he thinks he’s done no wrong. Instead he’ll blame the people he took out and try to use his wheel as weapon. The guy needs to be banned, period!
Next Tuesday, the entire 3/4 peleton should just slow roll it at 10mph in protest, let the culprit ride around by himself in his yellow jersey.
I was about 4 bikes behind Frias and have the crash caught on my GoPro
FYI…no race next Tuesday.
My sense is that Sammy will be happy to win anyway. What we need to do is threaten a boycott of Charlie’s races until he Bans Sammy. There needs to be offical action
This was not Charlie’s fault. Don’t fuck it up for the rest of us. Stop being such a pussy and talk to Sammy.
Both known assholes but one wins bikeraces. the other crashes 20 guys trying to be the other guy. ……..Word!
After Sam F sprinted into another rider that had been part of a lead out any attempt to converse with him resulted in him yelling and placing blame elsewhere. I’m not even sure if he bothered apologizing to the rider he crashed into. He obviously is callous and has little regard for other riders at these races. There are others like him but thankfully those who show a blatant disregard for safety in a large group haven’t caused quite as much carnage. The fact that he still chooses to stay a Cat3 and race with a group that he can handily beat every week in a bunch sprint by multiple bike lengths only further speaks to his character.
You are correct, this is 100% NOT CHARLIE’S FAULT! He cannot control the overly aggressive riding of a handful of individuals whose only goal in racing is to beat the same group of riders they beat last year and do so at any cost. But he can do something to make sure it doesn’t continue to happen. This is a hobby for most of us. There shouldn’t be the fear of getting crashed out by someone who obviously does not care about his actions. If that fear can’t be assuaged, then maybe it’s best that we as a group do what we need to do to make sure it doesn’t. A race day protest sounds like a perfectly acceptable option. The race gets the entries, we make our point, Sam continues to be himself.
I’ll upload it as soon as I get a chance- gotta get the bike ready for this weekend’s races
Have never raced at FBF. What happened a few nights ago is exhibit A as to why. Sadly, the mentality of this clown has even infiltrated a lot of club rides in the area.
You make a good point about the infiltation. I aregue to my friends that it is more a problem with the lack of respect for safety and the desire to win at all costs more than the venue.
Yup he won a few cat 5 races this year and just upgraded. He was mountain biking last year and always rode with Miguel Blanco and I when we raced with Scottos/Luzzos. He finally up his game this winter and started road racing for the first time. I don’t know his team mates but m little brother is cool headed so maybe take him to the side and speak to him to relate the message. He didn’t come from another country. He was born here in Brookiyn. We’re third generation. Just thought I clarify some things.
Charlie, I hope you are reading this because it is having an economic impact on you. If of the 20+ riders who went down, 5 won’t be be able to race, that 5 less people paying registration, let alone those thaty have had enough like Luca Steerer
A couple of years ago, a racer showed up wearing a cast on his wrist. He was hurt from an earlier crash.
The previous week, he could barely hold the bar with that hand, so I requested Charlie if he could stopped from taking part in racing – the veteran racer is also known to “chop” quite often. If I recall, he said, it was up to the official to make that decision – which I agree. We can ask Charlie all we want, but we can’t expect him to ban him just because we “ask”. Further, I think it will only make Sam more bitter and continue to act like a dick.
It’s a small community comprised of mostly friends at FBF.
I think the better idea is to line up as always and race, but just pedal 10mph for a lap and just quit after lap1.
See if Sam wants to keep racing alone. It’s a larger statement as we show a united front as fellow racers.
Well its too bad for Charlie that he does not have the power to ban a rider, because he is losing customers one-by-one to crashes.
Can somebody explain exactly what a “chop” is?
From the video, the crash looks very ugly. Did anyone break any bones?
I hope all who hit the deck make speedy recoveries.
You Can’t talk to Sammy, last year when someone tried to talk to him he tried to brake his front wheel over the guys head.
You are correct its not Charlie’s fault and he runs an excellent race and he is very safety focused. But he can Ban a dangerious rider can’t he.
By that standard he should have banned JJ 10 clavicles ago but never did. Not sure he sees that as part of his job.
Do you guys want your 25 dollars back? Protest period is over.
It’s up to Charlie ultimately, and I’m sure he’s not pouring over the ramblings here trying to decide.
basically the chinese hackers are saying Sam needs a good ass-whoopin
Great. Some wheelsucker wants races to cost an extra $10.
3/4 Master, I think you might be confused. Charlie doesn’t owe you anything, actually you should be asking him “how can I help?” How can you help make the races safer, more fun, more accessible, easier running, so that you continue to have races.
Judging from some of these comments it seems some of you don’t realize how good you have it in NYC, being able to race 4 times a week without having to get into a car. If Charlie quit tomorrow, like what, half? of all those summer races would disappear. You’re lucky there are people willing to do the work to hold these races so that you can pay your $20 to get your rocks off.
it wouldn’t cost anything more. just position the ref so they can see the real problem spots. by the time they cross the line it’s too late. there are usually more than one official at the s/f in the parks anyway.
“Fine. Let Charlie not do anything about guys like Sam. Let Sam keep racing the way he does. Let more guys break bones for Sam’s recklessness. This is what bike racing should be according to Amerigo Bartape.”
No you dumb fuck. I though entitled folks were educated, can’t you comprehend what you’re reading?!
What I said was get a spine and do something for yourself and stop relying others. If Sam makes you feel unsafe the SPEAK to him directly. Forget the HEARSAY, be a man and speak to the dude. He’s just a man.
because there’s no point talking to a sociopath.
This Is Charlie’s passion and part of his livelihood and all this negativity including vigilante behavior is going to drive people away and I know for a fact it has. It’s downright scary. For his own sake he needs to address it publicly. His post below is nonresponsive. Charlie does an amazing job and we owe a lot to him and he is effectively a public figure in our small community. Public figures need to lead.
Charlie can ban a rider for pissing in the grass….he can ban a rider for wiping out half the peleton.
Still waiting for that go pro video. You need helping uploading that?
Why would someone get banned for peeing on the grass? Where’m I supposed to pee?
There’s an expression that goes, “I’m not responsible for your front wheel”.
It means that if someone is going to take the risk of overlapping wheels, he must accept the responsibility for it.
We overlap wheels all the time at Floyd. But it’s risky, and last night demonstrated the possible result of that risk.
(Different if you were passing, but that’s not the case here.)
Charlie can’t ban anyone from a public race. It is up to the officials to take action. The officials can DQ a rider. See rule 8A4 and 8B3(a) & (b). In this instance applying 8B3(a) or(b), which includes a fine, would be appropriate. Fine the fool enough times and he will stop showing up to the races.
just crash sam out and be done with it
I assume that retaliatory action can get someone baned for a long long time and if someone gets hurt the potential legal liability is huge, but since we are all poor urban bike races we maybe judgement proof
Charlie you better try to do something here. You got guys talking about taking the law into their own hands. No one wants their sponsors thinking they run a dangerous race.
http://youtu.be/XFfKrANUxn0
Can’t see anything causing the crash. The video does however show the cameraman sprinting for 12th out of the 12 remaining riders.
Sorry for taking so long to upload the footage- I’m pretty banged up and had to work today
http://youtu.be/2ZYnuYyoIvA
The image is pretty jittery not sure why, this is my very first time using the GoPro so I’m still learning how to use it
you’ll see in the Video my teammate MBCR being taken out by what appears to be Schmalz not sure but according to him the “guy in the green jersey clipped his wheel”
BTW my name is not ” Mathieu Grips” just some random name generated by this thead
Don’t blame Schmalz. Yes he was overlapping wheels and has admitted to such, but that’s what you do in a crosswind. Blame the Yellow jersey for chopping him.
Let him keep the yellow jersey. Send him the bill for all the damaged bikes and medical expenses.
Did you speak to Sammy about what he did ? If not stop being a email gangster.
It’s been stated by multiple people that Sam is not approachable in person and any attempt to do so results in a screaming match because, as has been established, Sam is always right and doesn’t care about the welfare of those he races against.
Anybody is approachable its the way you approach the person is how a confrontation happens.
I blame schmalz
Likely $15K+ of destroyed bikes, wheels and kits. Add to that at least 1 broken collarbone, tons of road rash and who knows what else.
Would an “I’m sorry” be too much to ask? From Sam the answer is sadly quite obvious.
Gollum,
A chop is basically cutting someone off, shutting the door, or in some cases flicking someone’s wheel to take them out. It happens in Pro crits all the time and is a large reason for many of the crashes in pro races. If a rider in a leadout chops one guy and takes that guy out you can bet no one else will have the balls to try and make the same move, thus protecting the rider’s position.
Sam’s style of racing seems more fit for the 1/2/3/ field than the 3/4 field. It also seems more fit for the suspended from racing list.
Sammy is a known asshole, he should be suspended for such nonsense.
Samuel eres un hijo de puta malparido sin conciencia.
I didn’t stick around to hear the results — did Sam get relegated or DQed?
crappy. hope all involved heal up quick
A chop and flick are terms that come from track racing with a flick pushing the rider with overlapping wheels behind you up track and a chop pushing the rider down track. Its been used in crit racing to describe taking an early line into a corner to prevent the rider behind you from making a pass. At FBF? Apparently it means crashing someone out. At the track and to a lesser degree in crits, chops are a legitimate tactic to maneuver another racer.
You scam to leave work early on Tuesdays, risk your life riding up and back on Flatbush, enjoy the company of old & new friends doing the same, and take part in a really hard race midweek. Pisses me off that just a couple of supreme D bags manage to fuck up this little Tue night thing of ours. I for one start to lose interest after shit like last night.
if your caught doping, you are suspended for 2 years, if you smoke a joint at a party, you could be suspended for 6 months, if you constantly crash people out, make dangerous moves and cause damage, well that’s just bike racing! See in his little head, it’s everyone else that doesn’t know how to race, it’s never his fault. try to have words with him, he will take you down to the depths of a prison gang bang! Don’t boycott the race, boycott Sammy!
Shootthegap: I hear most of the 3/4 don’t really get the concept of how to ride in various wind conditions. You are probably one of them. Not all winds are tail and head wind, ya? Keep riding in CP and PP. I hope Sam didn’t intend to cause a carnage of this size but he knew exactly he was doing.
And based on my personal interactions with him, he is perfectly capable of acting like a dick, Victor R.
I don’t know him outside the racing circuit, but all of my interactions with him at races has never been pleasant. There is a reason why he has represented so many jerseys over the years. Stop trying to justify for him and think about the guys who went down and the guys who will quit racing at FBF because of douchy move like Sammy did.
I agree with Simon Ergopower. The A race isn’t easy, but it’s pretty smooth, fun, and its good group of guys to ride with. There is much less fighting for wheels and general muppet show antics and riding with better racers will make you a better racer.
in my opinion
Why wouldn’t you put everyone in the gutter in that situation? That is exactly the right thing to do. Maybe he did it poorly, but that would be exactly what I would expect someone, particularly a sprinter and yellow jersey wearer, to do. Seems like the right tactic.
I will save you all a lot of time.
YouTube video 1 crash is at 44:45
YouTube video 2 crash is at 4:05
Neither show anything particularly interesting or incriminating.
@Bugno
You are right, he should put everybody in the wind, but the issue is how he put everybody in the gutter (quickly and unpredictably).
It could be argued that the leader suddenly closing the door in the last cross wind section before the finale is quite predictable. If the guy behind him wasn’t up enough to protect his position, then he should expect someone to come over on him.
You can certainly close the door, the speed with which you slam it is the issue here. You can’t just go to the front and make a right turn into someone else. This is a matter of degrees here.
one – Sam is totally unapproachable. As someone pointed out he’s been on a long list of teams, and mine is one of them. He was asked to leave because of his attitude and actions. He’s sketchy, surly, and unpredictable. Over the years he’s raced multiple categories, using multiple licenses, sometimes on the same day. He’s caused crashes. He’s raced against teammates in ways that have caused his teams series wins. And as also has been pointed out, he bucked FBF tradition by not jumping into the A race this year after winning the B series last season.
two – Closing the door in the situation is expected. the videos don’t really show if he acted suddenly and maliciously when he realized someone was coming around him. That is clearly wrong. But most folks with their eyes on the win in that situation would have the common sense to know let someone come around them on the wind protected side.
three – Since there was no relegation it seems safe to assume that there was not enough evidence for one, and without that I’m not sure why the promoter would get involved. If Charlie was to get involved it should have been in week one, and with bumping Sam back to the A field (again).
Just got back from a very wet and chilly FBF race thurs series, While waiting to race I had the chance to speak with both Sam and Jesus- both guys are totally approachable and they’re both equally disturbed by the crashes as all of us. And just to clarify a few things I was the guy who had words with Sam after he crashed into one of my teammates last year during a final sprint and he wanted to give me a necktie with his wheel. We squashed everything soon after and continued on with our lives. I uploaded the video to give everyone the opportunity to form an unbiased opinion and if you’ve noticed I reserved my judgment b/c as most of you can agree both videos are inconclusive they neither prove or disprove anything. It was one of my Teammates that was the first to go down and he stated to me that ” a guy in a green jersey cut him off” bottom line is crashes are going to happen expect them and you’ll react accordingly. Personally I’m not experienced enough to know about “chops” or “flicks” or elbows or whatever I come to race because I enjoy the challenge of hanging on, attacks, and break-always along with the camaraderie of hanging out with a few guys that are into what I’m into. It disturbs me greatly to read about some retaliatory attacks against Sam or anyone on his team. Hating on someone will not make you a better cyclist or person that kind of talk will make me not want to race at FBF anymore I don’t want any part of that. I for one take the crash as a lesson learned I will not be in the gutter on a final lap. If anyone feels like they’re a contender for a top ten finish then go for it by all means, but there’s no sense sprinting for 11th 12th 13th place we all have jobs, families, and lives to live. Lets us please keep the spirit of sportsmanship alive in this sport and leave all the trash talk out of it.
There’s always talk about “I’ll take him out”, or “Put him in the ditch”. Always.
But you pussy white-boys are all talk, no balls.
(For the record, I don’t care for retaliation, or violence. But the threat of these is comical.)
If you’re 20 guys back and you crash you somewhat deserve it. There’s absolutely no reason 25 dudes should crash at Floyd. Ever.
The gutter is fine, learn to position your bike properly and handle it accordingly.
I wasn’t there and can’t weigh in directly on whether this particular move was reckless.
In general, I think both the local officials and promoters are pretty spineless when it comes to disciplining the bad actors around here. Everyone wants to look the other way….
The video doesn’t show what Sam did, but that doesn’t mean Sam didn’t do it. Let’s face it, there’s a 1% chance that the video camera would have happened to be on the bike just behind Sam in order to see what he did. Truth is though, all the guys near Sam have said he caused the crash, and there’s a reason for that.
If I was the promoter. As long as I’m getting all you dumb asses money why get involved.
I am glad you had a good chat with him. I tried a few times and it didn’t work for me.
Lucky you.
However, it doesn’t change my view that he races recklessly and unnecessarily aggressively.
As for Sam’s reaction of the crash – that’s relative. Of course he is going to feel bad. What is he going to say, “ya, I caused it and happy to that 20+ guys crashed?”.
Crash happens and I understand perfectly how he wanted to prevent others from drafting and passing him.
It’s the way he did it that’s dangerous, selfish and asshole-ish.
He is known to act like that on and off the bike.
It’s stupid for others to even think about resolving this by crashing Sammy out or doing anything violent towards him. That doesn’t solve anything. Yet, Sammy really need to ask himself this…”Is it worth it!?”
May be he doesn’t give a shit, I hope I am wrong.
@shootthegap
true…but sometimes a line gets crossed. I’ve never seen people so pissed off. seems like this might be one of those times.
watching that vidoe made me wonder why there were not more crashes. people were all over the place.
While I in no way condone the vigilante vibe that is going on here, I have to say that the local promoters and officials have no one to blame but themselves, time and again they fail to do anything at all when someone crosses the line, like someone already posted the are all spineless so that forces racers to take things into their own hands.
Maybe if we knew that we could relay on the officials and promoters to
keep bad behavior in check we wouldn’t feel the need to take care of it this way.
Charlie,
You have shown in the past that you are one of the promoters who cares the most about the safety of his racers, but if by next Tuesday’s race you haven’t acknowledged that you’ll do something about reckless riders like Sam, I’ll happily change my schedule and take my money to another race series. And I’ll bet others will do the same because breaking bones and busting bikes is not worth it for a training race which you yourself have called “bottom of the barrel bike racing”.
Intentionally crashing someone makes you a creep and you shouldn’t be racing. Doesn’t matter if it is because you want to win or because you are taking revenge. It’s totally anti-social and if you really feel inclined to do this you perhaps need to seek counseling and maybe should find another outlet.
Perhaps kickboxing would be more for you, go ahead and wail on someone, but be prepared to get kicked in the stomach in return.
I am shocked at Charlie, he is willing to post here to increase registrations, the least he could do is to respond to our safety concerns.
All,
I am happy to address any and all safety concerns you have. My email address is cibike@aol.com and my mobile # is 917-450-1900.
I will not reply to anonymous comments.
Charlie Issendorf
Race Director
Kissena Cycling Club
This should be sorted internally, in a race, by racers. Make it plain that if he’s racing like a jackass it won’t be tolerated. If everyone makes it their job to make his racing miserable then he might get a clue. You don’t have to take him out; that’s obviously the quickest and most overt method. Then again, the subtleties of bike racing are mostly lost in a 3/4 race.
Flicking is part of bike racing whether you think it’s sportsmanlike or not. Why do you think there’s an official term for it? Race any top level crit and the pros will make an amateur’s life difficult if they get in the way at the end. They will chop you until you go away or learn to race your bike properly. It’s called being aggressive. So don’t stick your bike there if you aren’t prepared to possibly crash.
So, when I am one of the many anonymous racers on Tuesday paying $25 week after week you are willing to collect our money without hesitation but now when I am one of these same anonymous racers posting real safety concerns about your race you won’t acknowledge us.
Got it.
Charlie is being totally reasonable. Expecting him to react to anonymous menacing – are you in third grade?
Please don’t come come back to the race. Don’t bring your precious $20, you’re not hurting anyone. It’s because of dicks like you that racing is so fucking annoying. The fact that fingers must be pointed and fake-ass treats must be made. Most of you have no fucking balls and no backbone to do anything on your own.
Sam has pissed me off in races and I immediately let him know about during and afterwards. Whoever is saying he’s not approachable doesn’t know how to approach a man. Because you can’t hold yourself together and get anything done you expect someone else to do it. Don’t look to Charlie, or the police, or the government or whomever else. Man up! Do it yourself.
Fine. Let Charlie not do anything about guys like Sam. Let Sam keep racing the way he does. Let more guys break bones for Sam’s recklessness. This is what bike racing should be according to Amerigo Bartape.
I don’t think there’s any reason to go “jets and sharks” here.
Putting aside whether you think Sammy did anything wrong or not, it will be very interesting to see if he and the Traingle Boys show-up with the same bravado they had when they were high-fiving it at their cars while 20+ guys were rolling around the deck. If they do it proves they are all sociopaths
Crashes happen. Move on.
But if it’s an intentional crash then it’s not allowed by the rules and rider should be relegated or disqualified from the event. Crashing people on purpose is dangerous and unsportsmanlike. So according to Bastien it is alright to crash or cause a crash on purpose. Are you an idiot or something?
OMFG. That is so funny and clever. Thanks!
the girl in race rode better than most of the men and was nowhere near the crash so don’t even remotely say she had anything to do with it
They cut a deal to take out the field so only they can sprint against the yellow jersey. Damn you rough and tumble 3/4’s come race with the big boys you wont have time to overlap wheels because it would be strung out from beginning to end.
Upgrade denied. We need more quality races for that to happen. FBF does not count to ride with us in the P,1,2,3. Bahahahahahaaaaa!!!!
Mandatory upgrade.
Way more than 40 points in last 12 months.
mama issues, clearly. might be good to speak with her; problem is she works the lot at the CITGO station off exit 56 (LIE) – night shift, if you know what i mean
If this Sam decides to show his face next race take him down on the first lap. Why put up with douches like this and let them ruin FBF and PP. He’ll be wearing a yellow jersey and easy to spot.
that, or taking a bat to his bike in the parking lot before the race starts.
I girl in the race right? Im not saying she had anything to do with it. BUT nuff said.
And yes my name does happened to be Alaxander Kevlar
Which of you clowns complaining that the officials should do something has gone/reached out to the officials to lodge a protest? If not, then shut-up.
Charlie cannot do anything, and the officials can’t do anything, they were not there at the time of the crash. Unless you go to them and give them an eyewitness account of what happened, they cannot do anything. They cannot DQ or relegate riders based on no information or their own conjecture. Unless they witness it themselves, they need two or more witnesses giving statements after the race.
As a former USAC official I have had to relegate and DQ riders, based on eyewitness accounts from other riders, but without that, officials can do nothing. Officials are not everywhere, and we cannot see everything; we rely on you to call out bad behavior in the race. Unless you do that, you’re just random venting internet mobs.
Being an official is a thankless enough job when things go smoothly (who really wants to be up at 5AM in March to watch a bike race?), it becomes absolutely unbearable when events like this happen. When a bunch of riders complain that officials are spineless, we’re actually relying on you(riders) to step up and show some spine yourselves and call out bad behavior of your fellow riders to the officials. Why should I stand up for you, if you’re not willing to stand up for yourselves?
One thing is clear: commenting anonymously on a message board answers nothing. Except who is sitting at home in their Ewok pajamas.
The force is strong with this group…
Ride in front of Sam. Problem solved.
during the last few Prospect races there has been an official on a moto DQ’ing jogger lane violators. I think there should also be a ref positioned 200M before the finish on the side AWAY from the camera at every race….i.e the gutter at FBF, the joggers lane side in the parks….90% of the most egregious stuff happens there. They would have been able to see for themselves what happened the other night.
Looks like Sammy and crashes are never far apart
http://www.yehudahperlowitz.com/Tour-of-Somerville-John/i-9rMdFmK/A
Got 15th in the Cat 2 race. Flame away.