Dear Douchetards:

Obviously the comments section is for douche-nozzles, but denigrating the man’s wife? Why should Mrs. Leipheimer be subjected to these comments?

Why would any pro rider show up to any of your gay spinathons or whatever? So you can host forums that bash their wives in the worse possible way?

Satire is one thing. so is “scathing commentary”

Just being dishonorable is another thing entirely. Screw your juvenile cartoon and your Fred-filled New York weekend warrior club (which by the way, is this the least photogenic group of amateur bike racers in the country? is it something in the water up there?)

Fred-filled New York weekend warrior club

Guys, guys. The wife stuff way out of line, way out. Riders are fair game, but riders’ wives? I find this really low, horrible. And the editors should remove some of the comments.

I love to read this cartoon, but wow. This is a sad one.

A Lady’s honor has been besmirched, er, I mean beschmalzed.

There’s only one way to deal with this properly…

As an original supporter of Toto, and one of his biggest fans, I’ve eagerly awaited every new installment of the strip. This week’s version is a great disappointment, though, and I’m, well, disappointed to see you reduced to the level of insulting the wife of one of the subjects you satirize. Their IS a difference between what’s fair game (cyclists, their handlers, apologists and co-conspirators) and what’s not (family members not directly involved in the scenarios you’re supposedly basing Toto on) – and it’s surprising to see the the authors are so willing to ignore the distinction.

I’m not personally insulted, and there’s no fake moral outrage here. Rather, just genuine disappointment that you would stoop to the level of insulting the wife of one of the subjects you criticize. You’ve lost a lot of your moral authority by making that mistake, and I hope it’s one that’s not repeated.

Kudo’s for telling it like it is Joe.
There is enough cycling fodder for Toto to skewer without bringing in the wives, children, girlfriends etc. into the equation.

As Joe said: genuine disappointment that you would stoop to the level of insulting the wife of one of the subjects you criticize. You’ve lost a lot of your moral authority by making that mistake, and I hope it’s one that’s not repeated.

You can do better by leaving it out.

Odessa used to race. why doesn’t that make her fair game?

I agree with Eustice. And I guess some guy named Joe.

Omerta-lovin’ Eustice loves to read Toto? Really? Watch who you agree with.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5405134

it’s no secret around girona and more of common knowledge that Armstrong banged Odessa. Got to feel sorry for little bottle, being team mates and training partners and all

Hey Useless:

Do you realize you are using the same tactics that Armstrong does by attacking Eustice, rather than the point he is making? See “argumentum ad hominem”

You hate Lance for doping (his popularity probably interested you in this sport); I imagine on moral grounds..
Then you promote rumor and character assassination..
You’re cheating yourselves by lying to yourselves that you’re so high and good..

Eustice uses the “never failed a drug test” defense for Armstrong in the ESPN interview. It’s well enough known that the guys caught in Puerto and in other stings also never tested positive. Of course Eustice knows his argument is absurd and borders on being dishonest.

That’s supposed to be Fat Pat McQuack…

Wow..NYC eats their own.

Here’s the deal. Until one of you douchfcks find mult. bags of blood code named uniballer, dont associate Puerto with this finger pointing Landis hissy fit. Its different. The fact is – as Eustice pointed out – he never tested positive, he never left empty blood bags laying around, his connection with any doctor that may implement him is zilcho and last but not least – who the fck cares who Lance is bangin. Given the money and lifestyle he leads, I’m sure most of you trolls would be logging your own frequent fck’r miles with women in every continent. The Hypocrit – look in the mirror cat 4 squids.

This toto – lacked anything remotely funny – last toto (gold)

When and if the smoking gun shows itself then we can all go on with our lives and find some other rider to run down. Until then Lance will continue to bring more cyclist into the sport, start development teams, and show up at domestic races that will pretty much give said town a good shot in the economic arm.
Here’s the story – why would us postal need a device to check blood values? In terms of fairness, I find that a little suspect. All of this other noncense, is just media fodder for selling books and logging website hits (toto).

last toto also sucked sorry. I meant to write Toto 192 – The funniest toto this site has ever written – without Commesso.

Another prime example of skirt the issue with the same defenders. Lance DID test positive so much so that at the 1999 Tour he had to get a backdated prescription to a TUE he had 2 weeks earlier he neglected to mention. I won’t even argue that the scrip was a cover-up.
The John Eusless poster here has a good point. John Eustice can cry fowl on behalf of Odessa (which does give him brownie points with certain riders and teams). When in the hell has he ever stuck up for Andreu’s wife? Hell, he’s gone on tv to defend Lance against any and all accusations against Armstrong including the Andreus’s accusations.
You read this John – why HAVEN’T you ever stuck up for Betsy since you’re in the business of defending the good honor of riders’ wives?

J.E. is an enigma. He’s always been a pioneer in providing cyclist opportunities and finding positive and creative ways to promote the sport to the general public.

On the flip side, he’s supported Todd Harriot, Floyd Landis, and Lance Armstrong while criticizing the likes of Greg Lemond.

I try to treat Eustice like you would a grandpa who still talks about the “colored people”. I ascribe his faults to the fact that he’s becoming a bit of a dinosaur in a modern world.

what ‘appenz in vegas stays in vegas, what ‘appenz on the road stays on the road…
LA doped, who at that level didnt? JV, FA, FL, GH, TH, are all “hot sauce” addicts…
whatever. you all suck, go get a Signature fitting, and Will Schneider Freakout!!!!
instead of roller races or ccx, lets do MMA off season…

So in other words, he’s just interested in making a buck instead of the truth. Yep, sounds right.

Will Schneider Freak OUT? Is that when he is sitting on a Gimbels Long Breakaway calling out time gaps to the old man chase group?

I dont think anyone here is a lanc fan. The previous comments are just folks that measure their opinions to what is publicly factual knowledge. the only writing on the wall is that rider A is takin the piss out of rider B for not letting B join his team and “get back together with the boys”. To publicly write that Lance is doped without the factual evidence is irresponsible and comes off makin one look ignorant. I would argue that the opposing viewpoint could equally be labled Lance hatin extremist (LHE) and we all have our views on the mentality of an extremist. – Lack of clear thinking comes to mind.

Is it fair for Eustice to impute motive to Landis? Maybe he came clean because his conscience was bothering him. Landis’ motive is less provable than Lance doping. Eustice is using his own conjecture to put Landis in the worst light. On the other hand all he will say about Armstrong is that he never failed a test and the tests should be used to prove innocence as well as guilt which he knows is a lot of shit. He can’t say that Armstrong doped because he does not have proof but there is a lot of evidence that Eustice chooses not to discuss while he trys to discredit Landis.
The tough question is whether Eustice is acting in the best interest of the sport. Of course, he thinks he is, but has trying to hide and make excuses for doping for 15+ years worked?

Lance haters are just as bad as Lance fanboys.

Maybe I’m reading John wrong, but did he imply that taking EPO is like driving a Camry instead of a Prius?

Funny how the only people who could possibly know the truth on some parts of this topic are the only ones signing their real names. I gave them more credence than the rest of us anonymous posters.

How does one score an invite to the Sinclair party?

You want someone to take a stand when there are no proof of any wrong doing? Isn’t the answer obvious?

John is a good and decent human being willing to risk his own reputation for the sake of doing the right thing. That’s a rare quality these days and for someone in his position. He should be given much credit for this and for continually acting as ambassador for the sport of cycling.

However, Dan’s argument is valid. IF there is corruption throughout and including the highest levels of the sport, then the solution must start there. It’s the most efficient and symbolic path that will have the broadest impact. The counter argument to this is to start with the Cat 5s racing club races. I would argue that this would indeed be a waste of time.

Finally, if the UCI, et al. went after a 1-time TdF winner in Floyd Landis for a questionable (and convincingly specious) positive control, then why is a federal investigation (with at least SOME evidence or corroboration of Landis’ claims) of a 7-time TdF winner now off limits and a waste of time and resources? It seems to me that the only difference is scale.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/08/new-york-times-reporting-clemens-will-be-indicted/1?csp=hf

I am very glad to see some good commentary on this issue. Couple of things: First, I absolutely want to see clean sport. It’s actually much more exciting (because human frailty is not masked by drugs) and above all, healthier for the athletes. So many of my teammates and friends from the old days are in terrible psychological and physical states. I lost a dear friend from TV to what I directly attribute to the steroid programs he was on as a college then pro football player.

And I never say that doping does not exist. In fact I say the opposite: I believe that modern sport (beginning in the early 1900’s) has been infected by medicines and drugs, and needs to be “detoxed”. My disagreement is with the methods currently being employed. And no, I do not believe that “bringing down Lance” will solve the issue in any way. I was in the Euro peloton by 1975, have kept my contacts since then, and have a pretty good handle how things work from the grassroots up to the pros. And the grassroots, juniors through U23’s are where the focus needs to be (by the time many of these riders make it to the pros they are already damaged goods) – there and in the continued development of clean training methods, and stringent controls (from juniors up to the pros) that are reliable and not politicized (leaks to the media, etc., the usual bag of tricks). The anti-doping effort needs massive government funding to really work. It is currently severely underfunded and problems arise from that.
I don’t judge the riders. It’s very difficult to find your way in pro sports. The Michael Creed article just published in Cyclingnews gives an excellent insight to the issues confronted by the pros. In many ways, he was describing my own career.

(from CBS Sports)
It is perhaps the biggest doping cover-up in all of sports.

Dr. Wade Exum’s report that 19 American medallists were allowed to compete at various Olympic Games from 1988 to 2000 despite having earlier failed drug tests shocked some people in the sporting community but was no surprise to others.

For years, insiders had speculated that U.S. athletes were not immune to delving into doping to get ahead of the competition.

But how could this be? American athletes often spoke publicly against illegal drug use in sport, cursing the sports regimes of East Germany and China for systemic doping practices.

“There is no commitment to stopping the drug problem,” said track and field star Carl Lewis in 2000. “People know the sport is dirty, the sport is so driven by records.”

Little did Lewis know he would be named in Exum’s report.

The five-time Olympic medallist was among the athletes named in more than 30,000 pages of documents released by former U.S. Olympic Committee anti-doping chief to Sports Illustrated and several newspapers in 2003. More than 100 athletes from several different sports tested positive for banned substances between 1988 and 2000 but were cleared by internal appeals processes.

According to Exum’s evidence, Lewis was one of three eventual Olympic gold medallists who tested positive for banned stimulants in the months leading up to the 1988 Seoul Games.

Exum made the initial allegations about coverups in 2000, which led several sporting organizations – among them, the IOC, IAAF and the World Anti-Doping Agency – to pressure the USOC to re-examine how they conducted drug testing.

Soon, the USOC turned over drug testing responsibilities to the newly founded U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. Don’t worry, the USOC assured, this type of cover-up will never happen again.

So far, it hasn’t. (Well, aside from track and field’s Jerome Young being allowed to compete – and win a gold medal – at the 2000 Sydney Olympics despite testing positive for steroids in 1999.)

These coverups still beg the question: How could a country’s own Olympic federation turn their backs on the oath of fair play and allow drug cheats to compete for a decade’s worth of Olympic Games?

Ben Johnson would like to know.

Lewis was awarded the gold medal in the 100-metres after Johnson was disqualified for using steroids.

The Canadian sprinter told the Toronto Star that he felt somewhat vindicated by Exum’s report.

“It was (for years) like I was the only cheat,” he told the newspaper. “I knew time would take care of the truth.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-adds-communications-strategist-to-defence-team

Sure is bringin in the big guns…

“…I’m probably not the only one wondering right now why the FDA is spending its resources looking into international bicycle races that occurred years ago,” Fabiani said in an e-mail to Bloomberg.”

If someone is innocent, shouldn’t they welcome a thorough investigation in order to clear their name, instead of questioning how the FDA is spending their money? I may be wrong, but stuff like this does a lot to convince me that Lance is guilty.

Dude, That youtube link is hilarious!!!!!!!!! You must really know Useless. How poignant?!

Some people need to lay off of the kool-aid. You obviously have NO idea about the true character of Useless. Or the true character of those in the sport. Everything Floyd is saying is true. He finally came clean. One has to give him that, at least.

Anyone who has been involved in the Philadelphia cycling scene over the past 30 years knows of his reputation. It’s not anything similar to what you described. Maybe why he fled to NYC — to escape his own widely known bad reputation. He’s a charlatan and cheat. Further he has always participated in some of the shadiest behavior as a rider, promoter and manager.

The hypocrit says wives are off limits. Yeah, if one talks about them.

(edited)

Useless, et al have a reputation of trying to discredit anyone who speaks out against them or wants to reveal the truth because they are honest people. He doesn’t defend Betsy because she is honest and her honesty won’t help his agenda in the sport. That’s their MO. That’s their party line…’sacrifice for the sport — at any cost.’ Even if it means lies, deceit, lack of ethics and morals and discredit ANYONE who tries otherwise.

Further, isn’t this the same person who fell on a sword for Floyd. Must have been a time when he felt he could manipulate the situation to further his own objectives. That’s the only way he operates. He cannot be trusted under any circumstance.

Don’t know how a rumored high school drop out could know about the effects of these drugs / doping methods unless of course they had first hand experience. Which, based on his analogy, seems pretty clear he has…He can always speak to every angle. Isn’t that unusual and, well, duplicitous. Don’t know how he could get hired to give any kind of commentary when he is so biased and unobjective with conflicts of interest at all levels.

What’s the deal with his association with that vulgar guy from Rock Racing? Isn’t he being investigated as well. I guess they’re getting close.

Betsy, you rock!!!!! You have more backbone, ethics and balls than many of these people combined. They all owe you a huge apology. In fact, you should head up the Giro coming to DC. You’re honest, ethical, smart, etc. and you’ve suffered enough with this ugliness. Yet, no one every comes to your defense. Just double-talk about defending Floyd when its suitable and then Lance when it’s suitable. But, Useless came to Odessa’s defense…go figure!
Which team won the races at the ones he promotes? Amore and Vita? Doesn’t he own the team with a woman? Sound familiar? Sound like a pattern? It’s in his best interest to lie through his teeth and to get Lance on his side because it can be quite lucrative when all is said and done. He has EVERYTHING to gain by defending Lance and MUCH to lose if Lances ship sinks.

to say it’s not a moral decision is total, total bullshit.

When you go home and talk to friends and family, do you tell them how you doped up to win? Or do you tell them about how all the sacrifices you, and they, made won the race for you?

I have to wonder WTF the NT Times reports spoke to a sociologist on the topic? they may as well have spoken to me Lorenzo Rivnut. I obviously know more about the sport than that idiot Coakley

I hope they don’t let this idiot Coakley teach any courses on ethics:

“Deciding to use performance-enhancing substances and methods has nothing to do with lack of morality,” Mr. Coakley said.

Um, yes it does have to do with a lack of morality ( assuming those substances are banned). It’s called cheating.

Pharmstrong nailed Odessa too?

BTW, do you know if Lance will be a bottom in Dirk’s new boy/boy flick?