Gavi Epstein of Champion System Racing/Cycles Gladiator Wine, is a local 22 year old racer whose talent has carried him to stage races as far away as China, Belize and Mexico. He’s been racing locally since he was 14 years old, and he was kind enough to give us this interview.

schmalz You’ve just returned from racing at the Vuelta Mexico, how was it? How did you prepare? By doing park races?

Epstein The Vuelta was by far the hardest race I have ever done. It was something like 1350 km in 8 days. Extremely fast, lots of climbing and a lot of suffering. One day I spent 7 hrs 15 min racing. There were huge names that showed up for this race. Simoni was just getting in some extra racing miles before trying to go win a 3rd Giro d’Italia this year. Man he just makes it look so easy.

I got sick on the 2nd day with a sinus infection and sore throat. I decided to keep going as long I could to get the racing miles in. I successfully got in a few early break aways that didn’t amount to anything except for adding to the pain and suffering. I am happy that I did successfully finish the race in one piece, unlike more that 1/3rd of the field which dropped out along the way.

Preparation was difficult with the very cold winter but I felt like I had prepared pretty well with my coach Matthew Koschara guiding me every step of the way. Unfortunately (or fortunately) there are no park races in January and February. The race started March 1st, so I had no chance to do any before going. It was quite a shock going from below freezing to 90s in the desert, that might have added to why I got sick.

Overall I was happy with how the race went considering I could barely talk and breath from my sickness and this was also some of the fastest and longest racing combination I have ever experienced. My team, Tequila Afamado, which I guest rode for treated me very well. We had excellent support, mechanic, masseuse, helper and director. I even got two bottles of their tequila to bring home, which made all that suffering worth while, right?

schmalz I’ve always found tequila to be a great training aid. What were the pros in the filed like? Were they friendly? Did they "big time" you?

Epstein I’ve never tried training while drinking tequila, but I’ve had one or two good results with a hangover, but that’s another story.

The pros in the field were pretty cool for the most part, just doing their job, really. I tried to strike up a conversation with Simoni, but he didn’t want any part of it and rode away. I knew his team was in Mexico pretty early before the race training and I saw one of the team’s spare bikes had powercranks on them, so I wanted to ask him if that bike was his (it looked his size) and how he trains with them. But I never got an answer. He just sorta rode too close to me, bounced off me, and then went up the road.

Landis actually seemed kinda nervous even before some of the stages even started, but that might be because he crashed the 2nd day.

The Italians, especially this one Italian sprinter from Amica Chips, couldn’t wait to form the groupeto. Naturally beeing sick I was right there with him. He even wanted me to sign something to ride the gruppetto or something, I didn’t really get it at first. He held his hand out when we were going up this climb one day and said to me "firma firma," sign sign. I gues he had recognized me from being in the gruppetto on previous days with him.

So I guess I never really got "big timed." No matter how strong or how "big time" they were they all were suffering. Even the grand tour winners and riders were talking about how hard this freakin’ race was.

schmalz Well, I would guess it’s easy top spot Simoni’s bike, he’s about as big as a garden gnome. Did the guy from Amica actually have a paper contract? And if so, can I get a copy of that so I can have everyone pledge to let me ride away from a Prospect Park race.

Epstein No, the Amica guy didn’t actually have a paper contract to ride the gruppetto train, just an imaginary one.

schmalz Bummer, I was about to head to Staples. How did you come to be racing in Mexico?

Epstein Well, it was thanks to a friend of mine, Luis Zamudio, who is Mexican American, from San Diego. He knew the Tequila Afamado guys and was asked if he wanted to race the Vuelta Mexico with them and if he had anyone else in mind who could do it with the team. So I sent them my resume and they asked me to come with them. It’s funny though, because I had raced against them before in Belize in the Cross Country. So I think that them knowing I was 5th there helped seal the deal getting on the team for the Vuelta.

schmalz How does a nice kid from Jersey end up at all these international races? When did you start racing?

Epstein I started racing when I was 14 years old. Central Park Spring Series was my first race.

Fast forward to where I’m 18 and Dave Sommerville invites me to go to the Vuelta Nicaragua as part of his El Puente USA program in 2005. That started my love for stage racing. I just got the word out that I like doing these international stage races and every so often I’ll get an invitation to go to one of these races.

schmalz But these teams won’t just take anyone, you do have to be a talented rider to get an invitation. Wait-—maybe there’s hope for this 40 year old cat 3? Can you give me a recommendation?

Epstein No, these teams won’t take just anyone. But there is hope for you. There are alot of Masters tours out there too. So I guess if someone took the initiative, a masters team with cat 3s could get invites to these races no problem.

schmalz What sort of training did you do to get ready for the Vuelta Mexico? Did you do a lot of it indoors?

Epstein I did spend alot of time indoors. I was in the gym and then doing conversion to power intervals on the trainer. Indoor sessions were sometimes up to 3 hours a day on the trainer plus going to the gym for an hour. I used my cross bike a lot too; riding in the woods to stay warm. I did a few snow rides on the cross bike too. I have a great route to Rockland Lake using the rail trail that goes from Northvale to Nyack and then the bike path from South Nyack Beach to Rockland Lake then back. It’s best when there is over 3 or 4 inches of snow. The deeper the snow the better conversion to power. Whenever it was nice enough to ride outdoors on the road I usually went to Central Park with Matt Koschara where he would drag race with me, our way of doing intervals outdoors. Only with about a month to go did I really start to lay down the long endurance miles, doing a little 7 stage Tour de Gavi two weeks before the race, winning the Nyack ride both the first and last stage. 

schmalz I think you may be the first racer I’ve talked to that gauges his training according to snow depth. How do you feel about sleet?

Epstein No, sleet is no fun at all. It’s only good when its nice and cold out so the snow doesn’t soak you. Plus the more snow the more fun, the more you slide around.

schmalz Snow? Yikes! How cold is too cold for you to go out training? Do you wear an igloo when you are out in the sub zero weather?

Epstein For riding on the road bike, I don’t like to go out much below freezing-really only the 30s. But I can ride on the cross bike when it’s colder. In the woods it’s not as cold as out on the road first off; and even when riding on the road’ there is more resistance with the cross bike that keeps you warmer. I only learned about this trick this past winter as this is my first time having a cross bike.

Clothing is pretty basic, With a good winter jacket you can just layer underneath. Charlie I’s Spa Sport neoprene shoe covers are awesome too. Cheap and good quality.

schmalz You’re at Redlands right now, what the best way you’ve found to recover from a tough day’s stage?

Epstein A good meal, good massage, lots of sleep and having good team support. A couple of times I’ve even taken a nap after the stage and then went out for a 30 minute spin before going to dinner, if there is time.

schmalz When you’re in these remote locales like Mexico, China or California, how do you find a place to eat that is non-toxic? And how do you deal with the boredom of the downtime in stage races? Have you ever done karaoke with Floyd Landis?

Epstein At the UCI races or most international stage races, the race organizer usually has all meals and lodging prepared. In Mexico and China, there were big buffets prepared for the race every day. In Brazil the food was actually my favorite. I liked the Chinese a lot too, but then got tired of it after a while; and I just ended up eating plain rice and noodles after a while. You really only have to worry about finding a place to eat either before the race starts, or at the end before you leave-if that. Then you look for the most toxic, authentic place. In China it wasn’t hard to do that. That’s all part of the fun. In the US, it’s another story, race organizers leave you on your own. Racers are scattered in their own hotels or host housing figuring out meals for themselves. You can usually find a Ruby Tuesdays though with a killer salad bar.

This interview is definitely helping with the downtime here at Redlands. When I’m somewhere international, my time is spent trying to find an internet connection so I can Skype my wife or any other way of contacting her so she knows I haven’t forgotten about her.

No, I haven’t done karaoke with Floyd. I did hear that he was looking for a place after Mexico finished when we were all sitting in the bar at the hotel.

schmalz I think if I had that much down time, I would eventually resort to juvenile pranks. Does a lot of this happen?

Epstein Well in China, one of my team mates who will go nameless, kept leaving stuff around and left his helmet. So he got this orange kids helmet so he could race. But he did not learn his lesson, so we taught him one. He had left his kids helmet on the bus, so we took it and hid it. He freaked out majorly and didn’t give it back to him until we were all lined up to start, he didn’t know what he was going to do. Stupid things.

schmalz Now that you’ve started doing bigger races, have you noticed any funny business going on?

Epstein Well what type of funny business do you mean?

schmalz It seems that many times when a racer makes the jump to the next level  of racing, they are surprised how things work in races, i.e. collusion between teams, deals made for wins on the road, and of course, doping, the old stand by. Have you been surprised by anything you’ve seen?

Epstein I was not surprised but it never ceases to amaze me a what goes on. Sometimes you’ll actually have 2 or 3 different teams that actually all have riders from one team but have to race in different jerseys because you can only have 6 or 8 riders per team in the race. When one of them gets the leaders jersey, you’ll see riders from all 3 teams protecting it.

I have also seen where a team (for example with the leaders jersey) will pay another team to help them keep that jersey by setting tempo and bringing back dangerous breaks. Like in Mexico, why else were the Cuban National Team setting tempo for Simoni’s team, Diquigiovanni, which had the leaders jersey. I’ll tell you why, it’s because Diquigiovanni only brought 6 riders and they didn’t have the man power to control a raging field. They have the money and the Cubans were probably for hire since they are strong, but weren’t getting much results.

Now for the doping. I will be honest and say I have never seen personally any illegal drugs being taken. Lots of riders are doing lots of things to recover and feel good. I’ve seen pills and IVs being thrown around. Not sure what they are, but I don’t even want to know. But I do know for a fact, since I have actually been told by some, that they have trained using EPO amongst other things as well. This is what gets me the most, how open some guys are about it. That’s the surprising part. I haven’t seen it nearly as much here in the US, but that also might be because the races here never have all the racers staying together.

schmalz I don’t expect you to name names, as that will be career suicide, but were the guys that were using EPO established guys or were they up-and-comers who felt they needed it to make it into the races?

Epstein Well they were foreigners and I don’t even really know their names, I was just sitting in the hotel room listening to all this.

schmalz It’s a little sad and shocking that they would be so open about it. I would think they would be afraid of getting caught.

Epstein Well, from what it sounds like, I don’t think it’s that hard to not get caught. Some guys talk like they are actual pharmacists. The really sad thing is that there is such little testing actually going on. In the US there is very little testing at the NRC level. I don’t even think I’ve actually been at an NRC race with testing. The only races I’ve done with testing were Univest, Tour of South China Sea and Tour of Belize. I was tested in China. It seems if you stop taking the drugs far enough in advance before you know there is testing; there is nothing to be worried about. It’s just there is this culture where it is accepted. Look at all the ex-offenders that get to come back to nice big salaries and teams.

schmalz Well that’s a little depressing, but here’s the important question: were the guys who were talking about taking EPO the guys that were beating you?

Epstein The thing is I don’t race with those guys a whole lot. Sometimes they have really good "form" and are flying and then the next time they are just pack fill or even off the back. So sometimes I am beating them, sometimes not. I don’t think I know if I’ve actually beaten someone who is on dope,-I’m sure I have-but in the cases where I have known for sure, I haven’t. I don’t know of that many people who do take EPO, but if I know of some; then there must be much more people out there doing that or other things.

schmalz Do you find that discouraging?

Epstein I do, I find it very discouraging because I work so hard for the fitness that I have. I question myself all the time, why do I keep racing when I have such a small chance of making a living doing this, racing against guys who are super lubed. But ultimately I love this sport and that is what keeps me going, and I try to be optimistic about how much doping there really is in cycling, even if at the end of the day I might be lying to myself.

schmalz Do you think that this feeling of discouragement that you feel might tempt others to say "screw it, everyone’s doing it", and then start doping themselves?

Epstein I think you are right about that, I’m sure a lot of dopers do it because they think everyone else is.

schmalz Well, this is a depressing interview. Do you see hope in the attitude of teams like Garmin?

Epstein I do see some hope, but I am also very skeptical as well. I don’t believe everything I read or see. Also just because they are not taking drugs that are on the banned list doesn’t mean they’re not taking drugs.

But yeah, with teams like Garmin it’s a step in the right direction, and if there is any one to cheer for, it’s them.

schmalz OK, we have to go out on a cheerful note here, how do you maintain your enthusiasm for racing (if you do)?

Epstein My enthusiasm comes from many different places. I love racing, I love the tactics and the downright grittiness of it. It’s a raw sport, pushing yourself to the limit while using your mind to figure when and where to do it. Drugs aside, it’s a great sport. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how much your bike is worth, whether you have the latest equipment or not, but how well you train, and when you train properly you can really see a difference in performance. I love the traveling, going places and seeing things that most people don’t get to. I have to remind myself that I am in a way living the dream. I’m doing what I want to do, racing my bike; living the way I want to live. And when you do get those results, win that jersey and get up on that podium it’s so exciting, like you are invincible for that moment.