This is very encouraging. . . I do remember Ed. I’m on a deadline now and going out of town after first spring race, I’ll contact you privately about this stuff when I get back. Once we get Lou and Al taken care of, we’ll discuss the 9-foot bronze Campo monument on the infield at the Velodrome.

Cranky – most people I know ride rollers with track bikes. Sorrry for my whatever… The Crunch story was for real.

George – I personally have enough stuff to weigh you down considerably, and I know others that have car loads.
Ed Merryman has Lou’s motor pace bike he set records with. Just before the hundred year party we had, the club looked up in the NY historical society the old news letters from 1900 and earlier. They were quite amazing to read. The club was called Century because it did hundred mile rides on a weekly basis and people would get a braclet that badges were hung off showing how many century’s one did in a given year. Most of these rides were done on dirt roads.

None of us are getting any younger so act now and get a free set of wooden wheels and a can of shelac…

No one wants to chew on the sponsorship thing? If you can find sponsors for teams, finding a sponsor to suppliment a bike race, shouldn’t be half as hard. That is what is happening now, only it is for the ones that can pay and still by a $10,000 dollar bike to ride.

If Anthony gets $10,000 up front from a sponsor $5 entries come back and so do kids like Wilson in cutoffs and sneakers dropping the fields cold.
That is, if you like that sort of thing?

Okay, I’m ready to get flamed.
Someone just squashed me on YouTube, and I’m still oozing.

Now I’m wasting time defending my dubious "honor," rather than working like I should be, but yes, indeed you can jump right off a set of rollers (if they’re low enough) and keep going if you’re still spinning your legs nice and hard. Most of the time when you lose balance you will instinctually stop pedaling and just tip over, but forward motion can be achieved, believe me. . . it’s about the same as curb-jumping really. Of course I’m not advocating it for sport.

Wow!
great discussion guys, I’m impressed.
Craig upholding history? Way to go… and I couldn’t agree more.
It all comes down to someone has to do it.
This promoter thing has been crabbed about since Al Toefield died and the races went from $5 to $10.

Putting on a race, especially in CP, is a terrible experience and if you are just doing it for the money… I’d try selling apples instead, you’ll make a bigger profit. You have to love the sport, so what it is, is what it is. Unless you can get a sponsor who will pay everyones entry up front. That is what we did last year. It is not easy, but can be done.

Salut! the roller mishap was great. I’ve heard a guy went crashing through the window at Crunch.

MS Bike Tour and other charity rides, or the 5 borough tour. They are closer to nyrr than our bike races.

not biathlons

What does CRCA do better than NYRR?

Cycling can’t even compare with the NYRRs. Not in any way. I’m not a runner, I don’t run but there are literally 100 of them for every one of us. I was in the park the morning of the superbowl and it was a frigid 15 degrees and there were 4,500 runners waiting in corals for the running race to start.

If you add up the aggregate cost and money the NYRR makes, it would be more than what cyclists pay but they also provide 10xs as many services. They have a ton more marshals than we do, an actual facility to service members, even the little t-shirt is a nice touch. They also have a better relationship with the park and the central park mafia – errr, I mean concervancy because of the money they donate. Its nice that cyclists and the CRCA can give six figures to the park every year but its far short of the six figures the NYRR can give for every big race they hold in the park. Once we as cyclists can donate that much, maybe we can have 8:00 am starts but then we might also have to pay $100 to race. Also keep in mind runners pay $20 to race 1/2 hour and we use it for 2 hours.

Hmm. Its not clear to me whether there is comparability between bike races and NYRRC – I think they have far more expenses – more people working etc., but Im not sure. Anyone that can elaborate on this? As for fees, Im not exactly clamoring to pay more to the promoters – I imagine they make enough to keep going…or we’d see them drop out…and then fees would rise to get someone else to do it…Free market!

Races are way too cheap. Promoters dedicated to the sport are donating time and effort. Even AVD is charging less than NYRRC does for running races. It’s time for rider’s to be charged real prices in accord with expenses and for promoter’s to make a fair profit. $40 for local races and $60 for regional races sounds about right. Let’s get prices up to what the market will bear .

Every race would be cat 4, or a 3-4, or 1-2-3 or a new thing called masters 25+.

don’t do the race. FBF is still relatively cheap, as are CRCA club races if you join that club and give your time "volunteer" marshaling.

Oh, and I dont judge the value of an activity like a race by $ per lap any more than I do skiing by runs per day or movies by laughs per minute. It just doesnt work that way… Its about whether you judge the experience overall as "worth it" – my bet is enough will agree it is, and we’ll have some fun races this spring! Look forward to seeing you all there – or least many of you…

OK – its cool. We just have different expectations. I dont go to races looking to win money necessarily – nice if I do, but not the point for me – its about enjoying my hobby and getting the competitive juices flowing, and enjoying the company of other riders with similar passion etc. I think the promoter needs to make good money to keep them happy and coming back to repeat, and not sure what that amount is, but so far it isnt enough to get people like me to switch careers, and I dont see a lot of other people piling into the promotion biz to mimic them, so Im saying the market agrees it aint too much… If you think you deserve more of the pot vs the promoter, then we come back to a more subtle argument about why most people race, but again its ultimately settled by the market voting to race or not. Maybe this race becomes the high price option, but there should always be a high price option in any market until its more saturated.

Btw, care to define a LOT of money by your def? By my calcs he likely isnt making more than a few thousand bucks, max, assuming 200 riders show up. OK with me…If its a ton to you, why not go promote a race? Better things to do with your time? Me too…

Seems everyone is welcome on this site and it’s best way to communciate to cycling community so I wonder why he hasn’t even tried to reach out. Is there some alternative universe that I’m missing?

There isn’t a free market for cycling events. Races can only be put on with the permission and cooperation of local govts. There are very few dates and very few locations. Local govts. have very strict rules that must be adhered to. These rules ensure public safety but make it very hard to make any money without either getting significant sponsor support or charging high fees.
Promoters abusing their privelge are endangering the future of racing.
By developing a cooperative where racers support and put on races themselves, CRCA has developed the best model. CRCA has kept prices down and kept races alive both locally and regionally and both club and open races. No one is making money on these races and except for a handful of big races no one is doing a better job.

Yeah, I cant stand the whiners regarding entry fees. We are all blessed that there are guys out there that are willing to put on ANY races. We all need to realize that doing it is a huge hassle- you dont get a ton of credit for doing it, and the money isnt riches. We dont know offhand what fees Neward charges, but you can bet they are higher than FBF for example… Besides, its a free market, so if you think its too much, dont go. If no one goes and the promoter hears its because fees are too high, than they could change it. Otherwise, dont begrudge a guy making some money for his hard work. $30 is just going to the movies with your wife and kid, but Id say a race is a lot cooler…and well worth it! Id argue we pay too little at most races, given the entertainment value, but thats just one mans opinion…Also, I bet race costs havent nearly kept pace with inflation of other activities in NYC in the last decade. We still pay $10 for CRCA races, but the damn subway has gone from 75c to $2 just since Ive been in town over a decade or so…and pizza slices now like $3, nevermind the cost of tuition if I had a kid in school here… If entries dont rise, than promoters will go do something else and then where will we be? Stop complaining…

I’ve never done them, and 30 bucks is a bit steep, but we all need early season training races to get back into it and not everyone has the time to go up to CT or wherever. You’d spend more than that getting there anyway.

so go do those road races instead of branchbrook.

i think nyvelocity should take over the spring series, make it fun like the roller races.

branch brook entry fees are $30 for $350 prize list (p/1/2/3). that is total bull.

I want someone other than AVD to run the spring series right so there is at least some competition to put Ray Smith in his place. He makes a boatload of money on these races – believe me. if you go… you should make comments.

Yes I would look like Pee Wee Herman, but I believe it would be safer.

CRCA does a great job in putting on it’s races and it would be great if they could take over the Spring Series if AVD doesn’t come thru. Just hope they keep them as USCF open races to carry on a tradition and so that at least the Cat 4 races count for upgrades.

If CRCA runs the spring series, does that mean you have to marshal one weekend of the series?

I’m inclined to think anyone picking it up now is going to have problems and I’d rather see someone do it right than haphazardly but I’m willing to CRCA the benefit of the doubt as it has successfully run its own race series for so long.

CP has artificial lighting

Nothing has been heard from AVD since December when he sent out some emails saying he had Park dates.
It would be a real shame if the park is willing to give 10 dates for cycling races and they go to waste. The Spring Series has been held for 35 years. Losing it would be a major blow to NYC cycling.

interesting and helpful article–i didn’t even know that when you guys have all been talking about "flaming," you were actually referring to Online Disinhibition Effect. …thank you, NY times!!

normally I’d be outside riding doing big miles, but with the treatment Ullrich and Unibet are getting I just don’t have the motivation anymore to prepare properly for club races. Can’t we get some support? We’re all in this together!

I blame the media. They don’t realize they are hurting even clean cyclists like me.

I’m not racing till Ulrich races!

strong guys at early races = burned out guys at august races!!!

can’t wait

Good job. . . but they don’t look too damned happy! Where did you come by that lovely old medal? I often think it’s a shame how 100 years of CRCA history seems to dissolve into vapor. For 20 years now I’ve had this trophy sitting here that says "Reginald Pilling Memorial" on it, and I still have no idea who he is. . . It would be nice to have a club archive, maybe even a Lou Maltese plaque at the top of Cat’s Paw (before he’s forgotton too). Hell, if they can put a life-size bronze statue of Fred Lebow (and rightfully so) by the resevoir, Lou shout at least rate a little bronze plaque. On the ground would be good. A constant reminder to people running rings aroung the bike path that we’ve been there 100 years. Ditto for an Al Toefield plaque at the Temple finish line in Prospect Park.

oh yeah speaking of racing being a few weeks away, is there any specific info about spring series?

P/1/2 is now P/1/2/3

Quit ‘yer whinging….
http://crcajrdev.blogspot.com/

dozed off with your ticker tocking at 145bpm, huh? I’m tellin’ lad, you’re mighty.

although cold these past two weeks, this winter has been easy to train in. hardly any snow or even rain. i think there will be a lot of strong guys at the early races.

. . .there’s still fun to be had for all (but when radio headsets begin to appear on the start line of club races I may need to reevaluate that statement.

I haven’t been on my bike outside for a month and a half and can last about 1 hour on the trainer. Do you think I’m ready?

I’ll hold on for dear life and call it an intensity day in my training log.