I remember a past Toto that referenced G.L.O.W. as in gorgeous ladies of wrestling. Can’t remember what the hook was though…
MQ
pelota. I get it
master Flahute
Whats michael cera got to do with this? its epo, not ce,……aaaaah
bikesoverthemoon
…tie cancer jesus to a chair & dunk him in a pond…
…if he sinks, he’s innocent but it’s up to him to get out…
…if he floats, he’s guilty, so now burn him at the stake…
…i know it’s harsh & ‘old school’ but hey, behind the facade, the guy’s a dick…
…with matches in hand, love, bgw…
Memory Lane
….not a Lance fan, but it really does seem to be apparent that USADA solely wanted to net Armstrong if all these other riders seem to now be able to freely admit that they doped with no consequences…
According to Tygart LA was given the same opportunity but declined.
Memory Lane
so if he had confessed to USADA he would have received no sanctions plus USADA wouldn’t have announced that he had confessed in the same way they didn’t announce that all those other riders (Vande Velde, Hincapie, Danielson, Zabriskie etc…) had confessed? Somewhow I don’t think that was the offer on the table.
Andy Shen
Just repeating what I read. Presumably they’d use his testimony to go after Bruyneel, Ferrari, etc. The other riders’ identities will probably come out when the case is presented to WADA/UCI.
Memory Lane
We’ll see how it plays out. Either way Lance appears to be clearly the ringleader and stood the most to gain. Deals get struck in criminal cases all the time, so probably not much different. Definitely doesn’t help his case that he’s evidently such a pr$ck
Enzo Skidmark
An important thing to remember is that USADA is not just accusing Armstrong of doping, but also of trafficking, aiding/abetting and “aggravating circumstances justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction.” It’s his “ringleader” role that gets him banned for life, not doping. It remains to be seen whether there will be consequences for the others.
…kobe beef-pad sez – “…USDA Choice imported T-bone steaks on sale at Fairway for $50,000/yr, plus bonuses….”…
…don’t forget your seasoned spices w/ extra clenbuterol…& don’t leave those steaks in the frig too long or they’ll pick up plasticizer residue…
…ya, spain’s “pistol pete” is back at the table today, hungry as ever & christ almighty, that two year sanction hardly seems like 6 months to me but, hey, we know he learned his trade, both the micro-dosing & who’s ass to kiss, at the knee of armneel & bruystrong…
…think i gotta buy a copy of hamilton’s book ‘cuz i gotta feeling it’s gonna prove to be THE tome for this era in cycling…
…with a bone to pick, love, bgw…
Oderigo Kevlar
Contador to Fairway
Lukas Post
…and Museeuw too…in fact, he’s says that “everyone” did – no surprise
I’ve changed sides. Now I’m rooting for Lance to win. Why? Because when I’m older, I expect and want to be wealthy enough to buy myself out of any trouble. And Lance losing sets a bad precedent for us (future) rich guys. So GO LANCE!
Memory Lane
This is great. Just yesterday this guy Weltz claims that Hamilton’s book is a “little too credible to be a lie” when Riis is being implicated. Once he cracked the book open to find himself implicated the book is suddenly “absurd” and “unbelievable”.
Sorry, but Toto is looking pretty tame compared to the real stuff lately.
truthiness
You aren’t the slightest bit funny
BigTimeBikeRacer
Everyone, and I mean everyone, just comes out and admits they doped. Period. That just puts it all behind and everyone on a level playing-field, and we can just move the hell forward.
bikesoverthemoon
…”roadie cadel evans” as compared to the younger “mtb cadel evans” & i’m wondering if the much heavier facial features are simply a product of age or was there perhaps a period of “human growth hormone” usage ???…
…i’d hate to indict the lad on a bad photo or two but i DO honestly wonder & if one supplement was used, were there others ???…
…i’m a half-fan of the little aussie whiner & he’s actually been pretty cool since his road world’s but i’d like to know the truth…
…searchingly, with love & nothing taken for granted, bgw…
Baptiste Brazeon
The same Cadel that the unambiguously selective duo ridiculed for years on this site for not having the manhood to attack fully doped fields?
bikesoverthemoon
…that “cadel”…
…the one interesting point that hamilton & coyle bring up as regards the playing field being not leveled by drug use but rather that the discrepancy only grew with the advantage going to the most “connected” & financially able would lend itself to a scenario where one had to be extremely careful in not only measuring leg strength but knowing the depth of chemical dependency & connections of ones competition…
…perhaps cadel was a wise man simply waiting for his chance because he wished to either “use”, “use less” or even “not use”…
…i simply wonder…
…with love, bgw…
Wally Pipp
Only one conclusion can be reached after Armstrong-gate, Landis-gate, Hamilton-gate, Lisban-gate, DA-gate, etc etc etc, which is — (ahem), “all cyclists are douches”. And yes, I fall prey to the old adage “it takes one to know one”. Good night douches.
Le Blaireau
I am still hoping that some more interesting stuff will come out about what goodies Lance was really on. If he had access to some really cutting edge BALCO-esque stuff…
Jasper Bearing
Mr. Eustice, I think the UCI, and maybe WADA, needs to better define the boundary between science and doping. Currently, the focus seems to be on settling scores from the last decade.
Is there anyone who could lead the UCI and who would want to?
Marco Seatmast
Cycling’s got to clean its act up and eliminate the doping culture if it wants to continue and getting rid of
people like John Eustice is part of the cleanupl.
I’d cite a shitload of evidence but John did a very good job in writing his own indictment.
John Eustice
Where does science end and doping begin? Should swallowing a tiny thermometer in a dangerous (yet legal) high-heat technique that forces the body to flood itself with the performance-enhancing hormone EPO — an approach Armstrong pioneered during his comeback — be considered a dastardly attempt to cheat or the cutting edge of scientific progress? (More to the point, was this same technique powerful enough to prompt the spike in his 2009–10 blood profiles that the USADA is touting as its one bit of hard evidence against him?) Could the major scientific advancements in nutrition, recovery and aerodynamics that have allowed Britain’s Team Sky to become a cycling juggernaut in recent years someday be defined as doping?
Cycling is a 19th century sport that until very recently had little in the way of educated leadership. It is infamous for its primitive brutality. “Boxing meets horse racing†is my favorite description for it. Armstrong went to Europe in 1989 as a 19-year-old and spent the next 15 years conquering that pitiless world. He won his races by being smarter and tougher, training harder, enduring more pain and using science to its limits to improve his performance.
Rest assured. Any time Eustice makes a statement sowing seeds of doubt over a cyclists guilt, it’s only a matter of time before he looks like a dumbass. The garbage he was spewing before Floyd came clean is even more hilarious now than it was then.
Fight the power
Isn’t it time we boycott Eustice events? This is shameful.
Cat4Forever
I have no love for John FYI. Is personal. However, his argument is that we should give some lead way to great athletes. Even to condone doping. That’s pretty much his message. From my personal encounter with him, I sense that that’s the kind of person he is. That’s no fairness or honesty at all. In the Lance case, I think what the USADA is doing to him is wrong not because of John’s reason. Because I believe the accusation is unconstitutional. I am looking at it from a legal standpoint, not because we give preferential treatments to Lance, like what John is arguing.
Ponce de la Yema
DNA doping is completely theoretical and probably always will be. Getting DNA past the immune system and into the human genome is only something viruses have figured out – humans have not.
Regarding the ‘constitutionality’ of USADA – that is silly and lazy thinking. If you join any organization, you play by their rules. For example, “No shirt, no shoes, no service”. That has nothing to with the US Constitution. You join USADA and it’s the same principle.
Andy Shen
I think we’re done posting Harlem photos and promos. That was a terrible op ed.
Andy Shen
Can you teach me the logic of an internal thermometer raising body temperature which in turn floods the body with EPO and that’s why his blood passport numbers from ’09 and ’10 indicate blood transfusions?
Cat4Forever
I heard that some race officials were working for free for the Harlem 2012….. He won’t see me there next year. Wondering which poor souls he would con into working for him. He probably thinks he is special like Lance and should be granted preferential treatments too… I am deeply regretted to knowing him…..
Mario Chain
John, Next time you write an Op-Ed, have a point. It makes it much more interesting for the reader.
Hugo Saddlesore
Just finished the Hamilton book. My conclusion…Dr. Ferrari is THE preeminent doping Dr. If you can secure his services, you have a chance of winning a grand tour. You can NOT secure his services as long as Lance is paying him for an exclusive. Now taking the best doping dr. off the open market is less than sporting. It is not a level playing field. If you told me that Lance’s rivals all used Ferrari, I would agree that it was a level playing field. But Lance cock – blocked them. John Eustice is a bigger Lance apologist than Phil Ligget. If he walked in on Ferrari injecting Lance, he would swear it was only a flu shot, yet another way Lance was employing science to win the tour.
truthiness
Valid arguments, and I teach logic. You all, on the other hand, respond with personal attacks and juvenile responses. At least provide a counter argument. He is correct, the lines are sketchy, where will you draw them?
Giacomo Lorico
Fuck your logic. Eusless is a serial doping apologist. My logic dictates he should keep his hole shut.
Baptiste Headbadge
gene doping is absolutely theoretically possible and genes have been inserted into other mammals routinely for more than 6-7 years now, the human genome is not that different. The genes “taxi” on virus to get in
If there were five drugs on the market that improved oxygen delivery, and all of them were banned, and you had access to a sixth which was not forbidden only because no one else knew about it, then yeah, you doped.
And, no one really had a choice? There are a lot of angry 40 year old guys who would disagree violently. Read Tilford’s blog on Tommy D., and Meyerson’s recent posts.
“Could the major scientific advancements in nutrition, recovery and aerodynamics that have allowed Britain’s Team Sky to become a cycling juggernaut in recent years someday be defined as doping?”
With regard to pills and supplements, there’s a gray area, but with regard to nutrition and aerodynamics? No. Full stop.
My favorite, though:
“Should swallowing a tiny thermometer in a dangerous (yet legal) high-heat technique that forces the body to flood itself with the performance-enhancing hormone EPO — an approach Armstrong pioneered during his comeback — be considered a dastardly attempt to cheat or the cutting edge of scientific progress?”
YES IT’S FUCKING CHEATING ARE YOU SERIOUS
Hugo Saddlesore
I propose that when the UCI gets the USADA dosier on Pharmstrong they are going to uphold the ban. THEN they will proceed to hand out lengthy suspensions to every American rider who admitted to doping. I think the UCI is pissed at USADA for announcing the Armstrong ban without showing them the evidence.
Dr/Mr teacher of logic, teach you informal or formal logic?
1) If the terms of your license as an athlete require you to abide by an anti-doping code, and you you dope, you are a cheat.
2) If you lie in court, witness tamper, destroy evidence, etc, you’re a criminal.
3) If you promise people false hope with regard to illness, use money donated to help the ill to serve your personal self aggrandizement, and loudly and publicly lie about how you’ve achieved what you’ve achieved, you’re a fraud and creep.
4) And if you don’t sign your name, you’re lame.
All these are not matters of logic, but of definition.
Eustice’s conception of cutting edge shows little logical distinction from cutting the course. Regardless, the ongoing lack of clarity in the terms makes any attempted logical argument. See points 1&2.
Finally, JDE’s logic seems to best be reduced to “we all did that kind of thing, this is what we did and do.” Perhaps. I think we can do a lot better.
liquiguts
cliff notes:
those who can’t do, teach.
those who can’t copy edit, post.
An un-Eustice like post from Steve Tilford for a clean sport.
Amine Dropout
just a bunch of yentas
Boycott Sparta
We now know Eustice reads this.
John, we all agree doping was prevalent among the pros even before Armstrong, even if it was just done for scientific purposes. What drugs were you using in the name of better science.
Cat4Forever
Lance doped, if he did dope, is doing it in the name of science. Either John is practicing high school journalism or Lance is experimenting with high school science projects. LOL So, where and what was the result of the scientific experiment? Was the result ever published in any major scientific journals? some sorts of high finance, secret science projects? Like I said, I no respects for John At ALL. Is obvious he has no futures in journalism. He does not even know how to ask the right questions……
Jens Internal Routing
You guys are all idiots. The Lance ban will be upheld because the Euro Peloton has been well and truly clean of cheaters and drugs since 1903. No one took drugs, trains, or any other illegal measures. Lance is a victim I tell you!
bikesoverthemoon
…ethics & practices all day amongst ourselves but the bottom line here is that armstrong sold a “package” to the general public through his “livestrong foundation”…
…that package was bolstered 100% by his recovery & 7 tour wins & to this day, it thrives because the man or women on the street are willing to overlook his cheating as regards what they see as the common good…
…what they DO find hard to overlook, when it’s pointed out & it needs to be a regular part of the conversation, are the machinations that armstrong used, by way of lawyers & negative publicity to threaten, attack, ridicule, vilify, denigrate & belittle those who were close to his sporting past, the ones who were willing to point out the truth…
…mike anderson, betsy & frankie, shelley, tyler, floyd &/or anyone else who dared speak that truth in the past have been made to seem like cranks, people with axes to grind but now, with the latest revelations about cancer jesus, superstar, the one thing i find the “interested observer” types are most disappointed by, is the fact that lance armstrong just might be an extremely nasty, vengeful & manipulative human being…
…cheat whilst offering succor to the needy & it’s obvious you can remain golden but hopefully now, as the general public starts to get a taste of “the real” lance armstrong, not the “lawyered up” publicity machine, that pedestal he so loves will get crumbled…
…lance armstrong was a damn good bike racer but that’s all he really was…history doesn’t need to see him as a demigod…
…with love, bikesgonewild…
Hugo Saddlesore
The full dossier wil be revealed….and when it is the spin machine will need some treatments from Dr. Ferrari to keep up. Marion Jones, Clemens, Bonds…the evidence there was kids stuff compared to the full Monty coming out on Lance. I”de almost feel bad for guy if he hadn’t personally made over $140 million from his emotional Ponzi scheme and if he wasn’t such a cat I douche.
truthiness
You are correct. Not a demigod, also not Satan. Crying for Tyler, Floyd, et al, is absurd. Finally (and please note that I will not address anything Mr. Harris wrote, as it is exactly the sort of non-argument I was referring to) the notion that he is the worst of the worst because he used his TdF victories/success, etc, to dupe the public, or sell them a bill of goods as some sort of nefarious conspiracy is silly. Yes, his success aided his business ventures, but he isn’t selling anything as “here’s how I did it, you can do it too.” Your attacks sound like Republicans after Clinton got head from Monica. Wrong and stupid? Yes, of course. Totally negates everything else he has done? That’s silly and infantile thinking. To be clear, I am no “fanboy,” I hate LA. He is a doper and a cheat, a liar, and a bully. I am thankful that Livestrong helps a lot of people who need help in a country that hasn’t offered a lot of support to cancer and cancer research pre-Lance.
Dieter
This story has become tiresome, touch my monkey
Noah Rim
BGW, the LAF doesn’t contribute a dime to cancer research. All they do is “Raise awareness”. Ever have a relative or close friend who died of cancer? Consider yourself aware! Pay some attention to them for a while. Watch what events they have going on. Actually watch what they do. They do exactly two things. They hold events to raise money, and now, post-USADA, they back their leader in the media circus and political arena.
The LAF is Lance’s personal tax shelter. Everywhere he travels, he does so in his private jet. Guess who pays for the jet fuel? Yep, the LAF. Hotel expenses too. All he has to do is visit a kid in the hospital for ten minutes, or ride with the event registrants (top donors only) for an hour here and there.
The guy has figured out how to make most Of his life expenses tie-in the the LAF. He is dirt.
Ken Harris
In terms of truthiness, let me feel this one at you:
Take, for example, incest.
Is marrying your second cousin incest? First cousin? What about raping her?
We don’t need to have an argument about whether incest is a social construct or biological or both when the issue at hand is rape.
JDE makes the point poorly that the lines are ill-defined, but problem at hand is breaking of contracts and criminality such as lying under oath and witness tampering and bribery. Without doubt, where to draw the lines about what’s doping and what’s not is an interesting debate, but has no function now but to attempt to obscure the harsh reality.
Furthermore, since when has LA ever argued the lines are fuzzy?
truthiness
red herring. and pathetic to distract with incest and rape. c’mon.
Ken Harris
I consider it analogous to JDE’s irrelevant thesis, but more emphatic, that’s the point. Both are appeals to emotion.
You want to debate the fuzzy, you and he should have been out front on this awhile ago, moreover, does not fit with JDE’s anger at Pulla if the argument is about ‘science.’
Debating the fuzzy after the fact is just a tactic to obscure. That is my assertion.
Fight the power
Zmolik said it well on facebook:
So according to this ridiculous article by John Eustice http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/27/lance-armstrong-was-he-doping-or-experimenting-with-science/
doping is just: “using science to its limits to improve ones performance” and not really wrong at all.
I remember how “furious” John was when Melito Heredia tested positive at Univest GP, John’s race.
So let me get this straight. Armstrong doping and making others dope is just pushing the science, but Heredia doping is a big deal?!
And why should any sponsor, or a clean rider ever want to support, or do one of John’s races knowing his views on doping?!
Marco Seatmast
Great takedown of Eustice by Katie Lambden on Facebook. This controversy about what constitutes doping versus legal advantage is bogus and a smoke bomb diversion to protect the doping culture. If he’s the insider he claims to know about Armstrongs “advanced scientific techniques” he’d know enough to address the claims of Hamilton, Landis and Vaughters. With all the charges against Armstrong and others there’s no thin line between doping and honest advantage. Eustice addresses none of this.
I’d call Eustice a liar but don’t think he has the integrity left to distinguish truth from fantasy. He’s really just making this stuff up.
Katie Lambden “Hematocrit the percentage of red blood cells vs. white? Nooooo, not quite. I’m not just being nitpicky: if you think about the actual definition of hematocrit – percent RBCs by volume of blood – and consider the UCI’s legal limit of 50, then you realize that anyone pushing that legal limit HAS MORE CELLS than liquid in their blood. No wonder vascular events (strokes and heart attacks) tend to ensue. That fine line between science and doping, as drawn by those “draconian” doping agencies, is not so arbitrary: it’s at least in part to protect the health of those athletes who’d otherwise stop at nothing in their push for the edge. I find it very odd that JE cited an incorrect definition of hematocrit; as a racer himself, wouldn’t he have wanted to understand this very basic bit of science?”
bikesoverthemoon
…mr harris had to resort to bringing rape & incest into play during a discussion about morality, personal responsibility & somewhere in the background, cycling…
…i fail to see how the deeply disturbing emotions that must arise from those acts could factor whatsoever into discussing armstrong’s ugly indiscretions…
…am i missing something that might logically be used to make a point ???…
…amidst sturm und drang, love bgw…
Kylian Sealant
It’s obvious why JE was mad about pulla – pulla was using the boring old doping methods like EPO and testosterone, nothing innovative. He wasn’t contributing to the advancement of science.
bikesoverthemoon
…let’s not read between my lines…
…i’ll go back to something i mentioned in an earlier “toto”…(fuck me, what happened to those cute little salvatore commesso, ham boned punch lines from a slightly more innocent past ???…ahhh, well)…
…”…i let cancer jesus pull the wool over my eyes for a long time & while 7 tours de france are quite incredible & yep, he has raised awareness of a nasty disease, he lied & cheated his way into the hearts & minds of the cycling & cancer communities to make his point…”…
…allow me to dissect but therein lies my partial take & please remember, i believe lance armstrong needs to be exposed for the fraud he is…
…7 tours de france = look back at the number of physical incidents that happened to various riders including cancer jesus during those 7 tours & statistically it’s quite incredible that anyone pulled off that stunt, no matter what they took, no matter what favored status they were granted…determination & focus were major factors…
…i’m very aware that livestrong monies don’t go to research…never have…but armstrong, vis-a-vis the “laf” HAS helped raise an awareness wherein being diagnosed with certain cancers needn’t be quite as scary as in the past…some shit you’re not gonna beat but the stigma of cancer has always been that the prognosis basically signified the end of life…
…the livestrong foundation DOES offer hope to patients & family & if not hope, an awareness that a certain dignity might be had in a terminal situation through quality of care…
…that being said, i fully agree that armstrong works the fucking system to his benefit like no one else’s business, from what i can understand…tax shelters, perked lifestyle w/ the foundation’s private jet & financed & justified by a visit here, a head pat there & ya, all based on being a “cancer celebrity”…
…it’s essentially despicable but fully accepted in this day & age…that’s why he can be CANCER JESUS – SUPERSTAR…
…i simply hope the world becomes fully aware of his antics in discrediting those who’ve known the truth all along & that includes tyler & floyd…don’t ascribe to me that i feel sorry for ’em…these guys made there own bed & hadda sleep in it…it was “the way” at the time & if they can come clean, so much the better for them…
…bottom line……” he lied & cheated his way into the hearts & minds of the cycling & cancer communities…”…
…with pardons for a LONG post, love, bgw…
for real
i don’t know about any one else, but i’d never heard of this strange disease they call cancer before lance came along and so graciously raised my awareness as to its reality. certainly mitigates the fraud he otherwise is.
bernie m
bernie madoff raised everyone’s awareness regarding compulsive lying. why’s everyone so angry at him?
Remi O-Ring
BGW Vomits Forth. NYV Jumps Shark.
truthiness
We haven’t talked about anything else in weeks. This is how cycling is different than other sports. 2 major league stars get popped in a week, and the morning papers still talk about the wildcard race…cycling? no.
bikesoverthemoon
…ummm, is that an anagram for “lance’s little buddy” ???…
…ohhh, really ???…the letters don’t match up ???…my bad !!!…
…dyslexia-caly, with love, bgw…
Arthur Limit Screw
CERA is still illegal… and Michael Cera should be!
Ricky Ricardo
Que CERA CERA….
Enzo Fork
Speaking of doping… I spotted David Anthony in Central Park this last Thursday flying thru the shortcut by the softball fields. A. He must have gotten over his misgivings about getting “carried away” with his cycling. B. He was wearing his B.H. kit, how do you feel about that B. H. guys. He must have been doing intervals because he was flying!
Can’t we ban this guy from park races for life? I for one, don’t want to be racing with people of his stature.
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suck it haters
The Eagle looking more like Hannibal Lecter.
I did all of Lances clinical work.
I don’t recognize the guy in the middle right. Who is it?
Get it, CERA? And by the way, he really was only 17 in ’05.
Here a dope there a dope. Everywhere a dope dope. Read Jorg Jaschke story in Sept 4, 2012 http://www.cyclingnews.com : http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jorg-jaksche-doping-hypocrisy-and-a-dog-called-bella
At least David Moncutie has a long standing reputation for being clean.
“I hate these fucking things”
“Divorce”
“Dong work”
“Keep it Greasy”
PATTERNS, PEOPLE, PATTERNS
I’m really dissappointed with Wiggo
I agree with you about Wiggo. What a douche!
After Cav and the rest of the men leave, Sky can join the ladies tour.
Poor Froome Dog.
Where can we get DCLA (Discraced Cyclist Lanced Armstrong) officially licensed apparel?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2197700/Tyler-Hamilton-Lance-Armstrongs-teammate-said-cyclist-used-blood-doping.html
You know he was that kid in grade school who got the shit kicked out of him for being a tattletale.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/vaughters-outs-garmin-riders-for-past-doping-in-online-forum_237650
Interesting, “glow time”.
I remember a past Toto that referenced G.L.O.W. as in gorgeous ladies of wrestling. Can’t remember what the hook was though…
pelota. I get it
Whats michael cera got to do with this? its epo, not ce,……aaaaah
…tie cancer jesus to a chair & dunk him in a pond…
…if he sinks, he’s innocent but it’s up to him to get out…
…if he floats, he’s guilty, so now burn him at the stake…
…i know it’s harsh & ‘old school’ but hey, behind the facade, the guy’s a dick…
…with matches in hand, love, bgw…
….not a Lance fan, but it really does seem to be apparent that USADA solely wanted to net Armstrong if all these other riders seem to now be able to freely admit that they doped with no consequences…
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-confirms-past-doping-by-danielson-others-at-garmin
According to Tygart LA was given the same opportunity but declined.
so if he had confessed to USADA he would have received no sanctions plus USADA wouldn’t have announced that he had confessed in the same way they didn’t announce that all those other riders (Vande Velde, Hincapie, Danielson, Zabriskie etc…) had confessed? Somewhow I don’t think that was the offer on the table.
Just repeating what I read. Presumably they’d use his testimony to go after Bruyneel, Ferrari, etc. The other riders’ identities will probably come out when the case is presented to WADA/UCI.
We’ll see how it plays out. Either way Lance appears to be clearly the ringleader and stood the most to gain. Deals get struck in criminal cases all the time, so probably not much different. Definitely doesn’t help his case that he’s evidently such a pr$ck
An important thing to remember is that USADA is not just accusing Armstrong of doping, but also of trafficking, aiding/abetting and “aggravating circumstances justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction.” It’s his “ringleader” role that gets him banned for life, not doping. It remains to be seen whether there will be consequences for the others.
Here’s a link to the original charging letter:
http://documents.latimes.com/usada-charging-letter-lance-armstrong/
USDA Choice imported T-bone steaks on sale at Fairway for $50,000/yr, plus bonuses.
Danielson, Vande Velde and Zabriske…all doped
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-confirms-past-doping-by-danielson-others-at-garmin
nice one, guys.
that’s Monty..
…kobe beef-pad sez – “…USDA Choice imported T-bone steaks on sale at Fairway for $50,000/yr, plus bonuses….”…
…don’t forget your seasoned spices w/ extra clenbuterol…& don’t leave those steaks in the frig too long or they’ll pick up plasticizer residue…
…ya, spain’s “pistol pete” is back at the table today, hungry as ever & christ almighty, that two year sanction hardly seems like 6 months to me but, hey, we know he learned his trade, both the micro-dosing & who’s ass to kiss, at the knee of armneel & bruystrong…
…think i gotta buy a copy of hamilton’s book ‘cuz i gotta feeling it’s gonna prove to be THE tome for this era in cycling…
…with a bone to pick, love, bgw…
Contador to Fairway
…and Museeuw too…in fact, he’s says that “everyone” did – no surprise
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12806/Museeuw-admits-doping-was-part-of-daily-life-when-he-raced.aspx
Cadel probably was/is clean
I’ve changed sides. Now I’m rooting for Lance to win. Why? Because when I’m older, I expect and want to be wealthy enough to buy myself out of any trouble. And Lance losing sets a bad precedent for us (future) rich guys. So GO LANCE!
This is great. Just yesterday this guy Weltz claims that Hamilton’s book is a “little too credible to be a lie” when Riis is being implicated. Once he cracked the book open to find himself implicated the book is suddenly “absurd” and “unbelievable”.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/weltz-denies-hamiltons-claims-of-being-usps-epo-courier
Sorry, but Toto is looking pretty tame compared to the real stuff lately.
You aren’t the slightest bit funny
Everyone, and I mean everyone, just comes out and admits they doped. Period. That just puts it all behind and everyone on a level playing-field, and we can just move the hell forward.
…”roadie cadel evans” as compared to the younger “mtb cadel evans” & i’m wondering if the much heavier facial features are simply a product of age or was there perhaps a period of “human growth hormone” usage ???…
…i’d hate to indict the lad on a bad photo or two but i DO honestly wonder & if one supplement was used, were there others ???…
…i’m a half-fan of the little aussie whiner & he’s actually been pretty cool since his road world’s but i’d like to know the truth…
…searchingly, with love & nothing taken for granted, bgw…
The same Cadel that the unambiguously selective duo ridiculed for years on this site for not having the manhood to attack fully doped fields?
…that “cadel”…
…the one interesting point that hamilton & coyle bring up as regards the playing field being not leveled by drug use but rather that the discrepancy only grew with the advantage going to the most “connected” & financially able would lend itself to a scenario where one had to be extremely careful in not only measuring leg strength but knowing the depth of chemical dependency & connections of ones competition…
…perhaps cadel was a wise man simply waiting for his chance because he wished to either “use”, “use less” or even “not use”…
…i simply wonder…
…with love, bgw…
Only one conclusion can be reached after Armstrong-gate, Landis-gate, Hamilton-gate, Lisban-gate, DA-gate, etc etc etc, which is — (ahem), “all cyclists are douches”. And yes, I fall prey to the old adage “it takes one to know one”. Good night douches.
I am still hoping that some more interesting stuff will come out about what goodies Lance was really on. If he had access to some really cutting edge BALCO-esque stuff…
Mr. Eustice, I think the UCI, and maybe WADA, needs to better define the boundary between science and doping. Currently, the focus seems to be on settling scores from the last decade.
Is there anyone who could lead the UCI and who would want to?
Cycling’s got to clean its act up and eliminate the doping culture if it wants to continue and getting rid of
people like John Eustice is part of the cleanupl.
I’d cite a shitload of evidence but John did a very good job in writing his own indictment.
Where does science end and doping begin? Should swallowing a tiny thermometer in a dangerous (yet legal) high-heat technique that forces the body to flood itself with the performance-enhancing hormone EPO — an approach Armstrong pioneered during his comeback — be considered a dastardly attempt to cheat or the cutting edge of scientific progress? (More to the point, was this same technique powerful enough to prompt the spike in his 2009–10 blood profiles that the USADA is touting as its one bit of hard evidence against him?) Could the major scientific advancements in nutrition, recovery and aerodynamics that have allowed Britain’s Team Sky to become a cycling juggernaut in recent years someday be defined as doping?
Cycling is a 19th century sport that until very recently had little in the way of educated leadership. It is infamous for its primitive brutality. “Boxing meets horse racing†is my favorite description for it. Armstrong went to Europe in 1989 as a 19-year-old and spent the next 15 years conquering that pitiless world. He won his races by being smarter and tougher, training harder, enduring more pain and using science to its limits to improve his performance.
Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/27/lance-armstrong-was-he-doping-or-experimenting-with-science/#ixzz25oTx8aoF
HGH EPO how quaint
Does he think the thermometer makes heat?
Impossible. DNA doping is on the near horizon.
Rest assured. Any time Eustice makes a statement sowing seeds of doubt over a cyclists guilt, it’s only a matter of time before he looks like a dumbass. The garbage he was spewing before Floyd came clean is even more hilarious now than it was then.
Isn’t it time we boycott Eustice events? This is shameful.
I have no love for John FYI. Is personal. However, his argument is that we should give some lead way to great athletes. Even to condone doping. That’s pretty much his message. From my personal encounter with him, I sense that that’s the kind of person he is. That’s no fairness or honesty at all. In the Lance case, I think what the USADA is doing to him is wrong not because of John’s reason. Because I believe the accusation is unconstitutional. I am looking at it from a legal standpoint, not because we give preferential treatments to Lance, like what John is arguing.
DNA doping is completely theoretical and probably always will be. Getting DNA past the immune system and into the human genome is only something viruses have figured out – humans have not.
Regarding the ‘constitutionality’ of USADA – that is silly and lazy thinking. If you join any organization, you play by their rules. For example, “No shirt, no shoes, no service”. That has nothing to with the US Constitution. You join USADA and it’s the same principle.
I think we’re done posting Harlem photos and promos. That was a terrible op ed.
Can you teach me the logic of an internal thermometer raising body temperature which in turn floods the body with EPO and that’s why his blood passport numbers from ’09 and ’10 indicate blood transfusions?
I heard that some race officials were working for free for the Harlem 2012….. He won’t see me there next year. Wondering which poor souls he would con into working for him. He probably thinks he is special like Lance and should be granted preferential treatments too… I am deeply regretted to knowing him…..
John, Next time you write an Op-Ed, have a point. It makes it much more interesting for the reader.
Just finished the Hamilton book. My conclusion…Dr. Ferrari is THE preeminent doping Dr. If you can secure his services, you have a chance of winning a grand tour. You can NOT secure his services as long as Lance is paying him for an exclusive. Now taking the best doping dr. off the open market is less than sporting. It is not a level playing field. If you told me that Lance’s rivals all used Ferrari, I would agree that it was a level playing field. But Lance cock – blocked them. John Eustice is a bigger Lance apologist than Phil Ligget. If he walked in on Ferrari injecting Lance, he would swear it was only a flu shot, yet another way Lance was employing science to win the tour.
Valid arguments, and I teach logic. You all, on the other hand, respond with personal attacks and juvenile responses. At least provide a counter argument. He is correct, the lines are sketchy, where will you draw them?
Fuck your logic. Eusless is a serial doping apologist. My logic dictates he should keep his hole shut.
gene doping is absolutely theoretically possible and genes have been inserted into other mammals routinely for more than 6-7 years now, the human genome is not that different. The genes “taxi” on virus to get in
http://www.sknvibes.com/news/newsdetails.cfm/60564
So many silly arguments in that piece…
If there were five drugs on the market that improved oxygen delivery, and all of them were banned, and you had access to a sixth which was not forbidden only because no one else knew about it, then yeah, you doped.
And, no one really had a choice? There are a lot of angry 40 year old guys who would disagree violently. Read Tilford’s blog on Tommy D., and Meyerson’s recent posts.
“Could the major scientific advancements in nutrition, recovery and aerodynamics that have allowed Britain’s Team Sky to become a cycling juggernaut in recent years someday be defined as doping?”
With regard to pills and supplements, there’s a gray area, but with regard to nutrition and aerodynamics? No. Full stop.
My favorite, though:
“Should swallowing a tiny thermometer in a dangerous (yet legal) high-heat technique that forces the body to flood itself with the performance-enhancing hormone EPO — an approach Armstrong pioneered during his comeback — be considered a dastardly attempt to cheat or the cutting edge of scientific progress?”
YES IT’S FUCKING CHEATING ARE YOU SERIOUS
I propose that when the UCI gets the USADA dosier on Pharmstrong they are going to uphold the ban. THEN they will proceed to hand out lengthy suspensions to every American rider who admitted to doping. I think the UCI is pissed at USADA for announcing the Armstrong ban without showing them the evidence.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/09/news/uci-suddenly-develops-interest-in-garmin-trio-after-jonathan-vaughters-online-revelations_237857
Dr/Mr teacher of logic, teach you informal or formal logic?
1) If the terms of your license as an athlete require you to abide by an anti-doping code, and you you dope, you are a cheat.
2) If you lie in court, witness tamper, destroy evidence, etc, you’re a criminal.
3) If you promise people false hope with regard to illness, use money donated to help the ill to serve your personal self aggrandizement, and loudly and publicly lie about how you’ve achieved what you’ve achieved, you’re a fraud and creep.
4) And if you don’t sign your name, you’re lame.
All these are not matters of logic, but of definition.
Eustice’s conception of cutting edge shows little logical distinction from cutting the course. Regardless, the ongoing lack of clarity in the terms makes any attempted logical argument. See points 1&2.
Finally, JDE’s logic seems to best be reduced to “we all did that kind of thing, this is what we did and do.” Perhaps. I think we can do a lot better.
cliff notes:
those who can’t do, teach.
those who can’t copy edit, post.
fucking SOCIAL DARWINIST. Look it up.
http://stevetilford.com/?p=21549
An un-Eustice like post from Steve Tilford for a clean sport.
just a bunch of yentas
We now know Eustice reads this.
John, we all agree doping was prevalent among the pros even before Armstrong, even if it was just done for scientific purposes. What drugs were you using in the name of better science.
Lance doped, if he did dope, is doing it in the name of science. Either John is practicing high school journalism or Lance is experimenting with high school science projects. LOL So, where and what was the result of the scientific experiment? Was the result ever published in any major scientific journals? some sorts of high finance, secret science projects? Like I said, I no respects for John At ALL. Is obvious he has no futures in journalism. He does not even know how to ask the right questions……
You guys are all idiots. The Lance ban will be upheld because the Euro Peloton has been well and truly clean of cheaters and drugs since 1903. No one took drugs, trains, or any other illegal measures. Lance is a victim I tell you!
…ethics & practices all day amongst ourselves but the bottom line here is that armstrong sold a “package” to the general public through his “livestrong foundation”…
…that package was bolstered 100% by his recovery & 7 tour wins & to this day, it thrives because the man or women on the street are willing to overlook his cheating as regards what they see as the common good…
…what they DO find hard to overlook, when it’s pointed out & it needs to be a regular part of the conversation, are the machinations that armstrong used, by way of lawyers & negative publicity to threaten, attack, ridicule, vilify, denigrate & belittle those who were close to his sporting past, the ones who were willing to point out the truth…
…mike anderson, betsy & frankie, shelley, tyler, floyd &/or anyone else who dared speak that truth in the past have been made to seem like cranks, people with axes to grind but now, with the latest revelations about cancer jesus, superstar, the one thing i find the “interested observer” types are most disappointed by, is the fact that lance armstrong just might be an extremely nasty, vengeful & manipulative human being…
…cheat whilst offering succor to the needy & it’s obvious you can remain golden but hopefully now, as the general public starts to get a taste of “the real” lance armstrong, not the “lawyered up” publicity machine, that pedestal he so loves will get crumbled…
…lance armstrong was a damn good bike racer but that’s all he really was…history doesn’t need to see him as a demigod…
…with love, bikesgonewild…
The full dossier wil be revealed….and when it is the spin machine will need some treatments from Dr. Ferrari to keep up. Marion Jones, Clemens, Bonds…the evidence there was kids stuff compared to the full Monty coming out on Lance. I”de almost feel bad for guy if he hadn’t personally made over $140 million from his emotional Ponzi scheme and if he wasn’t such a cat I douche.
You are correct. Not a demigod, also not Satan. Crying for Tyler, Floyd, et al, is absurd. Finally (and please note that I will not address anything Mr. Harris wrote, as it is exactly the sort of non-argument I was referring to) the notion that he is the worst of the worst because he used his TdF victories/success, etc, to dupe the public, or sell them a bill of goods as some sort of nefarious conspiracy is silly. Yes, his success aided his business ventures, but he isn’t selling anything as “here’s how I did it, you can do it too.” Your attacks sound like Republicans after Clinton got head from Monica. Wrong and stupid? Yes, of course. Totally negates everything else he has done? That’s silly and infantile thinking. To be clear, I am no “fanboy,” I hate LA. He is a doper and a cheat, a liar, and a bully. I am thankful that Livestrong helps a lot of people who need help in a country that hasn’t offered a lot of support to cancer and cancer research pre-Lance.
This story has become tiresome, touch my monkey
BGW, the LAF doesn’t contribute a dime to cancer research. All they do is “Raise awareness”. Ever have a relative or close friend who died of cancer? Consider yourself aware! Pay some attention to them for a while. Watch what events they have going on. Actually watch what they do. They do exactly two things. They hold events to raise money, and now, post-USADA, they back their leader in the media circus and political arena.
The LAF is Lance’s personal tax shelter. Everywhere he travels, he does so in his private jet. Guess who pays for the jet fuel? Yep, the LAF. Hotel expenses too. All he has to do is visit a kid in the hospital for ten minutes, or ride with the event registrants (top donors only) for an hour here and there.
The guy has figured out how to make most Of his life expenses tie-in the the LAF. He is dirt.
In terms of truthiness, let me feel this one at you:
Take, for example, incest.
Is marrying your second cousin incest? First cousin? What about raping her?
We don’t need to have an argument about whether incest is a social construct or biological or both when the issue at hand is rape.
JDE makes the point poorly that the lines are ill-defined, but problem at hand is breaking of contracts and criminality such as lying under oath and witness tampering and bribery. Without doubt, where to draw the lines about what’s doping and what’s not is an interesting debate, but has no function now but to attempt to obscure the harsh reality.
Furthermore, since when has LA ever argued the lines are fuzzy?
red herring. and pathetic to distract with incest and rape. c’mon.
I consider it analogous to JDE’s irrelevant thesis, but more emphatic, that’s the point. Both are appeals to emotion.
You want to debate the fuzzy, you and he should have been out front on this awhile ago, moreover, does not fit with JDE’s anger at Pulla if the argument is about ‘science.’
Debating the fuzzy after the fact is just a tactic to obscure. That is my assertion.
Zmolik said it well on facebook:
So according to this ridiculous article by John Eustice http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/27/lance-armstrong-was-he-doping-or-experimenting-with-science/
doping is just: “using science to its limits to improve ones performance” and not really wrong at all.
I remember how “furious” John was when Melito Heredia tested positive at Univest GP, John’s race.
So let me get this straight. Armstrong doping and making others dope is just pushing the science, but Heredia doping is a big deal?!
And why should any sponsor, or a clean rider ever want to support, or do one of John’s races knowing his views on doping?!
Great takedown of Eustice by Katie Lambden on Facebook. This controversy about what constitutes doping versus legal advantage is bogus and a smoke bomb diversion to protect the doping culture. If he’s the insider he claims to know about Armstrongs “advanced scientific techniques” he’d know enough to address the claims of Hamilton, Landis and Vaughters. With all the charges against Armstrong and others there’s no thin line between doping and honest advantage. Eustice addresses none of this.
I’d call Eustice a liar but don’t think he has the integrity left to distinguish truth from fantasy. He’s really just making this stuff up.
Katie Lambden “Hematocrit the percentage of red blood cells vs. white? Nooooo, not quite. I’m not just being nitpicky: if you think about the actual definition of hematocrit – percent RBCs by volume of blood – and consider the UCI’s legal limit of 50, then you realize that anyone pushing that legal limit HAS MORE CELLS than liquid in their blood. No wonder vascular events (strokes and heart attacks) tend to ensue. That fine line between science and doping, as drawn by those “draconian” doping agencies, is not so arbitrary: it’s at least in part to protect the health of those athletes who’d otherwise stop at nothing in their push for the edge. I find it very odd that JE cited an incorrect definition of hematocrit; as a racer himself, wouldn’t he have wanted to understand this very basic bit of science?”
…mr harris had to resort to bringing rape & incest into play during a discussion about morality, personal responsibility & somewhere in the background, cycling…
…i fail to see how the deeply disturbing emotions that must arise from those acts could factor whatsoever into discussing armstrong’s ugly indiscretions…
…am i missing something that might logically be used to make a point ???…
…amidst sturm und drang, love bgw…
It’s obvious why JE was mad about pulla – pulla was using the boring old doping methods like EPO and testosterone, nothing innovative. He wasn’t contributing to the advancement of science.
…let’s not read between my lines…
…i’ll go back to something i mentioned in an earlier “toto”…(fuck me, what happened to those cute little salvatore commesso, ham boned punch lines from a slightly more innocent past ???…ahhh, well)…
…”…i let cancer jesus pull the wool over my eyes for a long time & while 7 tours de france are quite incredible & yep, he has raised awareness of a nasty disease, he lied & cheated his way into the hearts & minds of the cycling & cancer communities to make his point…”…
…allow me to dissect but therein lies my partial take & please remember, i believe lance armstrong needs to be exposed for the fraud he is…
…7 tours de france = look back at the number of physical incidents that happened to various riders including cancer jesus during those 7 tours & statistically it’s quite incredible that anyone pulled off that stunt, no matter what they took, no matter what favored status they were granted…determination & focus were major factors…
…i’m very aware that livestrong monies don’t go to research…never have…but armstrong, vis-a-vis the “laf” HAS helped raise an awareness wherein being diagnosed with certain cancers needn’t be quite as scary as in the past…some shit you’re not gonna beat but the stigma of cancer has always been that the prognosis basically signified the end of life…
…the livestrong foundation DOES offer hope to patients & family & if not hope, an awareness that a certain dignity might be had in a terminal situation through quality of care…
…that being said, i fully agree that armstrong works the fucking system to his benefit like no one else’s business, from what i can understand…tax shelters, perked lifestyle w/ the foundation’s private jet & financed & justified by a visit here, a head pat there & ya, all based on being a “cancer celebrity”…
…it’s essentially despicable but fully accepted in this day & age…that’s why he can be CANCER JESUS – SUPERSTAR…
…i simply hope the world becomes fully aware of his antics in discrediting those who’ve known the truth all along & that includes tyler & floyd…don’t ascribe to me that i feel sorry for ’em…these guys made there own bed & hadda sleep in it…it was “the way” at the time & if they can come clean, so much the better for them…
…bottom line……” he lied & cheated his way into the hearts & minds of the cycling & cancer communities…”…
…with pardons for a LONG post, love, bgw…
i don’t know about any one else, but i’d never heard of this strange disease they call cancer before lance came along and so graciously raised my awareness as to its reality. certainly mitigates the fraud he otherwise is.
bernie madoff raised everyone’s awareness regarding compulsive lying. why’s everyone so angry at him?
BGW Vomits Forth. NYV Jumps Shark.
We haven’t talked about anything else in weeks. This is how cycling is different than other sports. 2 major league stars get popped in a week, and the morning papers still talk about the wildcard race…cycling? no.
…ummm, is that an anagram for “lance’s little buddy” ???…
…ohhh, really ???…the letters don’t match up ???…my bad !!!…
…dyslexia-caly, with love, bgw…
CERA is still illegal… and Michael Cera should be!
Que CERA CERA….
Speaking of doping… I spotted David Anthony in Central Park this last Thursday flying thru the shortcut by the softball fields. A. He must have gotten over his misgivings about getting “carried away” with his cycling. B. He was wearing his B.H. kit, how do you feel about that B. H. guys. He must have been doing intervals because he was flying!
Can’t we ban this guy from park races for life? I for one, don’t want to be racing with people of his stature.