Champ Sys/SNT help CRCA create testing program

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 9:23pm by alex
Champion System p/b Stan’s NoTubes cycling team helps CRCA fund new testing program. Call for others to help fight doping too.
New York City, NY (FPRC), July 25th , 2012 – Following the news of positive drug tests at the 2012 Gran Fondo New York, the Champion System p/b Stan’s NoTubes cycling team has pledged a $5,000 donation to the CRCA with the stipulation that the money be used to fund a testing program.
 “The cost of testing is very expensive, but that shouldn’t be an excuse for inaction. We would like to see testing at CRCA events and we’re ready to help fund this,” said managing director Igor Volshteyn. “While we are disappointed by the recent news, we believe the stark reality highlighted by these positive tests is exactly what we need to finally mobilize our community and take firm and decisive action against doping together… something we frankly should have done a long time ago.”
This is not the first positive test for a CRCA member. In May of last year, a rider from another CRCA team tested positive at the Wilmington Grand Prix.
Gran Fondo New York CEO Ulrich Fluhme has been a big advocate of more testing, “Doping control helps clean riders have fair competition. We believe that we came closer to achieving that by introducing out-of-competition (OOC) and in-competition (IC) testing. All our OCC tests came back negative as did the vast majority of IC tests. Plus, the announcement of testing before the event kept away notorious cheaters.
“We applaud the Gran Fondo New York for taking a strong stand against doping and for working with the USADA,” said CSp/bSNT rider Chris Johnson. “Now it is time for the local community to keep this fight against performance enhancing drugs going.”
Igor Volshteyn continued, “We’re calling other CRCA teams and individuals in the cycling community to match our donation and contribute to help fund a local testing program. We recognize the financial limitations of the CRCA and would hope that other teams within the club feel as strongly about the need for testing as we do and take action.” 
About Champion System p/b Stan’s NoTubes cycling team: Champion System p/b Stan’s NoTubes is an elite cycling team based out of New York City. They are registered with USA cycling as a domestic elite team and race a national schedule. To learn more about the team, please visit ChampSysRacing.com
About CRCA:
The Century Road Club Association (CRCA) was founded in 1898 and was named the USA Cycling Division 1 Club of the Year for 2009. The club exists to provide bicycle racing and bicycling activities for the enjoyment of its Members, to promote bicycling as a sport and generally advance the interests of cycling through organized races, coaching and training events.
Christopher Johnson, communications
Champion System p/b Stan’s NoTubes Cycling Team
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ken you've done a lot of good
By: Leo Bartape
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 11:34pm

ken you've done a lot of good work and devoted a lot of your time & money to junior development. many thanks for it.

Jr Dev Team
By: Ken Harris
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:02pm

I also extend my deep thanks to everyone who is helping get kids to races. I don't have the time to drive them to races this year, so this help has been essential. Thanks to the parents and Champ-Sys. Also to the coaching help from CRCA. Next year should be very good, we have a lot of riders returning for a change.

By: Noah G
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 7:45pm

Ken - I think you do good work with the Jr's. I agree with the idea that it is better to start earlier so there are 3 or 4 years in development so guys and gals have a chance to develop slowly. Probably wouldn't be crazy to focus Jr efforts on bmx or something like that so kids can then go to track and then dominate on the road but what do I know.

Jr Dev Team
By: Ken Harris
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 7:30pm

In case anyone is interested in the facts, what the CRCA junior team does is give a jersey to any kid who finishes four races, bibs to any kid who is cat 4. No free bikes anymore, there are loaner TT bikes. Too many wealthy libertarian kids have proved my suspicions right.

We pay travel and entry for cat 3's and promising cat 4s (about to turn three). I give 3s more kit. I give coaching advice for free, I occasionally loan out my own gear, glue up tires, and such like. I pass on any donated gear to the kids. We've sent kids to USCA camps, to L'Abibiti, Battenkill, Fitchburg, Nationals (this year with the help of Champ-Sys). My priority is to get kids to starts.

I loan cassettes and chainrings as needed so they ride the same gearing and make rollout. I have a few TT helmets.

The lack of support at the u23 level which really limits retention.

StarTrack does a great job at what they do, but I have yet to pick up one rider from them.

There is a structural problems of a lack of continuity between programs. There is an expense problem in the lack of proportionality between cost of a DS and depth of talent/possible meaningful starts. In terms of the latter, my budget has gone between $5-15k. A real DS going to races would add over 100% to the budget. Running a better team is marginally better for the riders at a much higher cost. Finally there is a cultural problem in that I get most of the kids in their last year of eligibility, and no one is going to learn bike racing in six months.

Eli Mernit, Bill Golembieski, and Ben Salibra are riders from the last two years who are racing often.

Hey bad to worse
By: Yann Headbadge
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 5:46pm

Since when do the local softball adult leagues pay to fund the little league? The parents last I checked, pay for there kids to participate and if they want to get crazy into the sport they pay for the kids bats, gear, coaches, travel teams. Your argument is totally off base. We are not saying dont let juniors race, what we are saying is that there is no need to fund a well off kid from the upper east side to race a bike for a season or two and then dissapear. Star Track focuses on bringing under privaledged kids to a sport they could not afford. CRCA Junior Dev. gives free bikes and gear to kids who can afford the sport regardless.

This really has nothing to do with who turns pro... but if you are looking at that, none of CRCAs have done anything beyond local cat 1 at best.

Nobody from my town ever went
By: badtoworse
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 5:31pm

Nobody from my town ever went to the MLB but it doesn't mean we should shut down the Little League program.

Fernando Cuevas did a great
By: Noa Saddlebag
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 2:48pm

Fernando Cuevas did a great job getting serious kids into the sport on his junior team. We haven't seen any kids that good since Fern got sick.

Star Track is a great
By: Antoine Bushing
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 2:41pm

Star Track is a great outreach program. But traveling around for road cycling is no different than ice hockey, soccer, tennis or any other sport for kids and their parents.

CRCA Juniors
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 1:21pm

I can only think of one CRCA junior that went through the program in the past 10 years that is even racing (Even Cooper). He is an average Cat2. I likely have missed some people but all the other promising racers have gone on to better things (work, college, life). I think the program would be better if it sponsored 1 racer a year but only if they prove dedicated, financially underprivaledged, and talented. Put them on a sub-team.

Julien Clamp
By: proasshit
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 1:09pm

Are you nuts? We get one free kit, some Cliff Bars, get to tell out colleagues we race on a team, and have the pictures of us dressed up like Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers to prove it.

spot on Julien
By: mos def
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 1:00pm

I have said much the same here, and been totally attacked about "team sport" blah blah blah. rubbish.

Comment on Sponsors and Juniors
By: Julien Clamp
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 12:41pm

I have always found the concept of cat 2-5 team sponsored teams pretty laughable. Unless you are getting paid to fly to races (meal stipends etc) and get a free bike and kits, you are not sponsored - you are getting a discount on products while advertising for them. Getting a discount at a shop or gels is a joke. First, you can get better deals on equipment or nutrition online or buying in bulk (see cliff bars, lara bars etc at Costco). I know there is the argument that it keeps shops in business... no it does not. Mom and dad buying their kids the new BMX and getting the yearly tune up and new helmet and bike bag keeps shops in business - not the Cat 3 looking for $2000 wheels for $1250. Racers shop online for all the majority of their needs because the deals are better and they know what they want and need. Shops survive on families rec riders and bike service.

Further to the point, I often found myself shelling out lots of money to get "discounted kits" that were a billboard for companies I either did not like or did not buy into... I finally realized, I would prefer to use my cycling money towards gear I liked and went unattached.

Finally, on the point of Juniors, I do think programs like the Star Track program at Kissena are great. But supporting middle to upper class kids at bike races is kind of funny. If these kids love the sport once introduced, mom and dad will foot the bill just like every other sport in this country. If you have one off sitations where you have a dedicated under privaledged junior, then help out. But to give money to every kid that decides he wants a free bike for the year and too dissapear later on seems a waste. How many juniors in the program, or other elite programs (Hot Tubes) really go anywhere beyond local Cat1-3?

All you old guys are gonna
By: Gabriel Steerer
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 12:38pm

All you old guys are gonna get pop'd for viagra. See you in 2 yearz.

Mr. Market Goods is a total moron
By: Noa Saddlebag
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 5:20am

If cycling paid more, NBA players would have gone into cycling and the average cyclist would be 6'5 and 220 lbs. Amazing how dumb some people are.

Viable Method
By: Rinaldo Axle
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 4:26am

You don't/won't have the budget for random testing.

Attempts to suprise racers at events will work maybe three times, then the news will get out ahead of the event.

The answer then, is a two-parter.

Part 1: highly placed/rapidly advancing riders are on a watch list.
Part 2: Randomly test off the watch list 3-4 weeks before premiere events.

Even then, research suggests you'll have a bunch of false negatives. WADA has 2010 testing stats for all Olympic and even some non-Olympic sports at their site.

Make no mistake, the best testing window is several weeks out from the date of the event.

USAC Doesn't Care
By: Rinaldo Axle
Tue, 08/07/2012 - 4:24am

CRCA members being 6.5x more likely to have doped is ample evidence that USAC's Masters doping is widespread. If DA can figure it out, there are plenty of others going to the anti-aging clinic...

Where's Steve Johnson doing a Pat McQuaid imitation? Oh yeah, they don't care. Dope like you mean it and don't kill yourself and then spend more money on cycling and USACDF. That's what Steve would say if he wasn't busy covering for Armstrong.

this will be the outcome of
By: Antoine Bushing
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 8:47pm
That not my point. My point is that you suck.
By: Xander Dropout
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 3:24am


supporting juniors is pointless
By: Who Got Next
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 3:14am

atheletic prowess is a market good. the best atheletes congregate to the highest bidders in any given market. cycling in america is not well-rewarded, and thus the best atheletes don't participate. soccer is a case in point. various parties have been funneling large chunks of cash into youth soccer for eons. alas, there's no good american soccer players. there COULD be, there just aren't--these atheletes play football, basketball, what have you. so, supporting junior programs in cycling is just as pointless. the successful american cyclists all make it despite well funded junior programs.

Ha!. Look over There!
By: Alessandro Biopace
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 2:35am

They have spent $5K toward an anti-doping program. Ha!!!

Let us guess. That cash was directly or indirectly from a key rider-sponsor. Maybe he's in a "Clean Window" and is showing doubters that they (also he, under the cover of the team) are clean.

Look over there...not here..we put money into anti-doping!!!

anyone notice
By: hater
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 2:35am

that Kissena is especially annoying this year?

why do you want me to give
By: Gabriel Steerer
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 2:32am

why do you want me to give money to junior racing?

Can't argue with that type of
By: Xander Dropout
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 2:29am

Can't argue with that type of reasoning . Leg shaving Lycra fags .
Ok you won.

Why don't you fags support
By: Gabriel Steerer
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 2:20am

Why don't you fags support your own kids? If you want to support a group of kids, coach or put together a team. That's how it works in, let's say, children's soccer.

Yeah..... Your right if I
By: Xander Dropout
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 2:12am

Yeah..... Your right if I were you I would ask their parents to sponsor your team.

if a junior isn't regularly
By: Ye Olde Bitter Man
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 1:37am

if a junior isn't regularly trouncing jacked up 40+ year old lifetime cat 3s or 4s when going around in circles at cp or pp, then that junior will one day have a fantastic opportunity to become a domestic pro, see the country's finest motel chains or become an expert couch surfer, and earn less than working full time at starbucks but getting to ride their bike for a living (sort of).

oh yeah, live the dream!

It also might help the
By: Logan Downtube
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 1:13am

It also might help the juniors advance faster in the sport (and possibly get those pro opportunities we older folks have missed out on) if they weren't getting their asses handed to them by cheaters...just sayin'

Why does everyone say "Put
By: Gabriel Steerer
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 12:02am

Why does everyone say "Put the money into a junior program if you want to help"?

Have you seen kids in NYC and the surrounding area? They have parents that provide them pretty good equipment and support.

damn, right on
By: truth win
Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:57pm

I, too, could give a shit whether I'm racing dopers.

Shhhhhh don't say anything
By: Sheeit
Sun, 08/05/2012 - 9:28pm

Shhhhhh don't say anything about NO SPONSORS-- most of these dipshits, who can more than afford the hobby, waste more time (or get some sap on their team to waste the team) looking for their bullshit sponsors than they could ever possibly save... Box of Clif Bars, 10% discount, WOO!! It's cheaper at the grocery store.

The delusion of "sponsorship" is one the stupidest, most destructive things about amateur bike racing.

Go to a running race and see how many people are "sponsored"... And the front end of those races are A LOT fucking harder than any bullshit NYC race because you can't sit in, make one jive-ass "attack" and pretend you "did" something but "got boxed in" or whatever one of 1000 other lame ass excuses ya'll come up with in between wondering if you need lighter carbon wheels to climb 'better.'

By: Xander Dropout
Sun, 08/05/2012 - 8:15pm

Are you guys for real. Let me bring you in to the real world and put a stop to all your suffering.
You all suck. You are not winning prize money getting a pro contract or going to the Olympics.
You also don't have sponsors, they are just selling you product at there regular price.
It's a past time. I win or place in a race and I feel good for a few days, that's it. Testing wankers?
Put the money into a junior program if you want to help. For those who want to use go ahead your performance in the park is not going to change or damage cycling in anyway.

Sounds familiar
By: From the earlier post
Tue, 07/31/2012 - 11:58pm

...."We had two riders in the prior six months who had been sanctioned. So my teammate posted “this is more prevalent, we train our asses off, you know this one is cheating and that one is cheating.” I challenged him. There has always been talk of testing, so why don’t we just do it? We threw a thing up on Facebook and the local rider blogs. Of course everyone responded “well, this one cheats and that one cheats.” I was almost the opposite. My motivation was different from a lot of people. Let’s call b******t. I don’t think as many people cheat as you think cheat. I think you just got your a$$ kicked."....

This is exactly why we need testing. Without it, people with results will always be questioned.

By: Pee in the cup, please
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 2:56pm

how can we make sure one of the Cham Sys riders is targeted for testing?

This is true.
By: shootthegap
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 2:38pm

This is true.

Well, if Champion System
By: Schiatuzzo Locknut
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 2:22pm

Well, if Champion System weren't doing this solely for the purposes of trying to make themselves look good, they would have waited to issue their "press release" so that a joint release by all the teams willing to contribute funds were included, as had been discussed.

most of these sub-teams only
By: for real
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 12:27am

most of these sub-teams only last a couple of years. once champ sys/snt ceases to exist in a couple of years, who's going to make up that shortfall?

I'm a sh!t example? Of what?
By: schmalz
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 5:30pm

I'm a sh!t example? Of what?

Vodka n maryjane
By: Truth game
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 4:58pm

Do you remember the Happy Days episode when Fonzi literally jumped the shark (only dudes over 40 would)? It became a catch phrase for when shit goes too far Well, we have now, at CRCA, "jumped the proverbial shark". Truth is, I smoke weed and drink a ton of vodka and I race (lame CAT 4). Basically I try to lower my performance so I don't get a big(ger) head. Yeah right. Truth is, though, that if some douche wants to dope to win park races, LET HIM. Who cares! Their punishment isn't suspension, or fear of USADA, it's being a tool who cheats to gain social acceptance (see DA NYT interview) or to win CRCA races - again, WHO CARES!

I've come to realize that cyclists (of which I am one), have a far too large a sense of self-importance. Let's get over ourselves. Do drugs, cheat, whatever - tune in, turn on and drop out man!

All I want to know is - will Shen crush the Silvermine TT in CAT 4????

Holy false positve list!
By: Kylian Bottle
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 3:00pm
By: Eddie B
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 9:50pm


Fri, 07/27/2012 - 9:22pm

I think some of those criticisms of the NYVC team are fair. As an ex-member, what the team lacks is a cross section of experience. It's all newbies setting examples for newbies who got their cycling knowledge from Phil and Paul and "It's Not About the Bike". Their only other local outlet is this site, and for all the fun this site is, it sets a shit example, both from the writers (Schmalz) and the commenters (Us). They also don't have very qualified coaches IMO. So that leaves a lot of leadership to fall on newly minted Cat 4's. Blind leading the blind and leaving douchebaggery to go uncorrected many times. More senior and experienced riders on other teams would nip that shit in the bud, but on NYVC it seems to go unchecked in many cases.

depreciating? better stop
By: sinep
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 8:09pm

depreciating? better stop racing and save the money.

By: Ermanno Bartape
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 8:08pm

Disagree. Generally, a good bunch of guys, fit, and highly motivated. My only complaint is that their bike handling skills often do not match their fitness

Giacomo Lorico's comment
By: alex
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 7:47pm

Not that this will help with the credibility of your assertion, but DA actually made a similar point to me. However I do think the criticism is valid, and like a lot of people here, this weeks events have forced us to do some soul searching.

I would disagree that our guys are jerkier than any other cross-section of the CRCA, you may not like all of them but on the whole I think they are more well rounded than the majority of CRCA members and most are quite modest and self-depreciating; they really look up to the rest of you. Learning about nutrition, teamwork, training- etc, and getting a chance to pushing yourself to limits you didn't know you even had, those things are all positive for new riders ... till they aren't.

In the past we have joked we should start another team to get guys out of cycling too, but that would be much harder.

I am doping for Catskills and
By: Tommy Top Tube
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 7:40pm

I am doping for Catskills and GMSR and there's nothing the organizers are doing to catch me. Suckas!!!!!

How's that test for HGH
By: Mathis Tigweld
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 6:53pm

How's that test for HGH coming along?

To Noa and Noah
By: Dustin Thewind
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 6:36pm

Just test the winner of the A race a few unannounced times a season and less frequently, the B race. Not subjective.
More importantly, test the P12 podium at one or two of the CRCA open races such as Maltese or Mengoni. Targeted yet fair.
As a club member, with the same input as the other 800 folks, this would be my vote.

I'll agree that the NYVC team
By: Giacomo Lorico
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 5:07pm

I'll agree that the NYVC team has been an effective way to get new riders started in the sport quickly. It's been the source of quite a few good riders & produced plenty more winners than just DA. I think it's a great program run by good guys & while I was never a member, I've suggested the team to guys that have showed an interest in getting into racing.

The flipside of the team is that it's also a source of some of the biggest self absorbed douchebags in NYC racing. Maybe the problem is that these guys get to start the sport feeling like a pro with coaching, gear, team training sessions, beautiful matching kits, etc. These are all great perks. I'm pretty sure I'd have jumped at the chance to do the same as a new rider. But they never gain the humility that comes from having to suffer being the goofy hairy legged new guy in a cat 5 race with a mtb helmet and toe clips. Maybe it's the program, or maybe it's just the kind of guy that's willing to dump hundreds of $ a month to join a team for a sport they've just started. I've got a bunch of friends who have graduated from or are in the program. But it's also been the place where DA is just one especially egregious dick among a handful of other snotty overgrown high school bullies screaming "TOO EASY" as they cross the line. Maybe Alex should require new members to complete their first 5 races in SPD sandals and re-used powerade bottles stuffed into their cages.

By: Anti Alias
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 3:40pm

Far from being the root of the problem from what I have seen the NYVC dev program has doing a great job of bringing new riders into the CRCA. I'm not sure you have meet too many long time CRCA members, you know the guys who are always posting here to enlighten us with words of wisdom that only serve to stroke their own egos, IN my experience they are they ones who better fit the profile of lonely with low self esteem.

And no I didn't come into cycling from that program whoever many of my friends in the CRCA who are well rounded people and great racers and contribute a lot to this community did. I wish it was around when I started.

To Paul Carbonara
By: Sacha Threadlock
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 3:11pm

I agree with you- so why not eliminate it? Prize money only adds to the myth that winning is of greater value in sport than the joys of honest competition regardless of the outcome. If the difference between first and second is just the color of a ribbon, there is a recognition of accomplishment, but also an acknowledgement that both are truly only successes within the confines of the sport and when taken out of the sport are all valueless – except in how chasing them has made us challenge ourselves.
But please don’t focus too much on the idea of prizes. My real point is that there must be a cultural change to place values above victories in the minds those competing. I would love to hear others ideas on how, or even if, they think this could ever happen.

Sinep, I have a few to lose
By: Noah Rim
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:55pm

Sinep, I have a few to lose too. I have trouble with that damn hill cuz I'm heavy, not because of DA.

One could argue that the
By: Schiatuzzo Locknut
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:54pm

One could argue that the downfall of CRCA is rooted in the nyvelocity "development" team concept. The fact that the team was established to make money - for coaches, the site, etc. creates riders like David Anthony who think spending money on the sport is the only way to improve and become involved (i.e., lonely duides with low self esteem and nothing else going on in their lives can all of a sudden feel like they are "part of something" - provided they are willing to pay the "coaching" fees of course!

So Dustin, How will you
By: Noah Rim
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:54pm

So Dustin,

How will you identify your "targets"? The guy that beat you up the climb in Harlem? A guy who upgrades too fast for your taste? You'll need a targeting criteria, and that is where the real farce will begin. You'll need some people to meet and discuss potential targets, so who gets to be on THAT committee? You? Shen?

Really, think about it and explain exactly how the hell you'll make this work in a fair and unbiased manner.

You like the IDEA of having to need dope testing, but you don't actually have the actual need. Do a lot of CRCA members dope? Duh. Yeah. But I don't feel the need for you to protect me from them. I have a lot more fear of those weeded-up insane bike messenger guys who ride the cat4's. Can you target them for reckless bike handling in the peloton? Please?

To Noa Neck
By: Dustin Thewind
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 1:56pm

I think you made DA-Hole's point. Targeted testing will be effective.

from Cyclocosm, just saying
By: Florian Rim
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 1:49pm

“…and Ullrich has already said he would welcome any tightening of the dope controls, and in fact, his Telekom team have offered money to improve the testing.”

— Phil Liggett, commentary on Stage 11 of the 1998 Tour De France.

if you've trained and
By: sinep
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 1:31pm

if you've trained and prepared yourself properly only to get beat by a fat guy that's doping, then DA did take something from you. whether it be a placing, the pittance of a pay out, but more importantly he's taken a portion of sanity from those who couldn't figure out why they were placing behind that fat ass old dude. now we know.

People like DA clearly have
By: Noah Rim
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 1:15pm

People like DA clearly have even bigger problems going on in their lives if they're spending thousands of dollars a year on EPO and risking their future health to beat a bunch of y'allz going around that damn circle every weekend. He certainly hasn't taken much away from me other than a potentially bruised ego, and perhaps I should thank him for that actually. I still love the sport, still love bike racing. I'm not mad at the guy. He's taken nothing from ME, even though the guy has beaten me several times (now that I look back at where I've raced). The guy didn't rob me of my food supply, nor did he cheat me or my sponsors of any particular payday or glory.

I'm sad for him. You guys are running him up the yard-arm and behaving like the lynch mobs that used to populate manhattan two hundred fifty years ago. The guy didnt really take anything much away from you. He made himself look like an idiot. It seems like some of you guys are taking real pleasure in trying to outdo each other in the grandness of consequences that you dole out. Banishment from the club forever, testing programs, etc. You're falling into the same rabbit hole he fell into. Don't take the easy route and become the red queen.

DA really needs to get himself into narc-anon, AA, etc. Something that will help him work through the emotional process that actually got him into the situation he's in. Wish you guys could see that.

By: Dorian Housing
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 1:15pm

Adding testing is just a band aid to the problem and not a real fix. The club should be a club and more focused on positively promoting the sport and developing athletes. Newbies should have more opportunities than one "clinic" each season and more of the CP times should be opened up for juniors or the growing women's group. More development - less testing and catering to those that degrade the sport.

Prize Money
By: Paul Carbonara
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 1:12pm

The prize money is not a motivating factor for any of us. Its miniscule. No one is out here making money.

Please don't start testing!
By: Sacha Threadlock
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 5:16am

I think it would be a real mistake to try to start a testing program. With the limited funds available you will never create a great enough of deterrent to prevent doping. The only way to truly make a long lasting and real difference is through creating a culture that makes people want to be a part of the sport for the right reasons. This can only happen through education and the expression of ideas about what is truly important and rewarding in the sport of cycling. People talking about what it means to be an athlete and where athletics fit into our lives and society would be a very good start. To start the conversation I would suggest: maybe instead of spending a bunch money on testing let’s do the opposite. Let's make amateur racing amateur again and take money out of the sport. No more prizes- just medals and ribbons. Why do we compete? It allows us to raise ourselves to a higher level by pitting us against another person trying to do the same. This is the beauty of competition and it engenders respect for your fellow competitors and creates rewards greater than those of victory.
You can try all you want to prevent people from being able to dope- but you will not succeed. You must stop people from believing there is any reward in victories gained through it.

DA-Hole, it's called targeted
By: Noa Neck
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 4:07am

DA-Hole, it's called targeted testing.

By: Rinaldo Tank
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 3:55am

So, did you bother to research the impact that dope testing costs would have on your members? How much?

Mike, you're gonna need to order more jerseys over in Park Ridge to make room for ex CRCA members. Kissena won't have them. Westwood's into hairly legged guys.

ACLU has nothing to do with
By: Rinaldo Tank
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 3:38am

ACLU has nothing to do with it. Pacifism is like totally IN these days.

Greatest Putz of Prospect Park
By: Rinaldo Tank
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 3:36am

I remember a juiced-up Cat 4 rocketing away from us week after week at prospect. He wasn't just faster, he was meteorically faster. But he eventually went on to bigger and better things. The faster, the better, eh? But so the hell what... He was a putz, Putzism has a way with catching up with them putzes. Perhaps it might have even been this guy we're talking about.

What did he cost me? Upgrade points, perhaps? No matter what he took from me, he couldn't take away my dig-ni-ty. Sorry, I was born not far from Newark. Had to do it.

CRCA Members Batting .400
By: DA-Hole
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:49am

Best estimate is that 5 club members have been tested in the last year. 2 have faile which means the club has a problem.
If Andy is right and CRCA can just test for the big stuff that actually makes you go faster and recover quicker, what are you afraid of? Often the people protesting the loudest and mocking the process have the most to hide. And for those of you going all ACLU on the board here, give up your uscf license in addition to quitting the club as you already agreed to testing as a member.

Hand warmers
By: Rinaldo Tank
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:31am

How can you tell which guy at the party just got dope tested? Don't worry, he'll tell YOU.

And some of you are just salivating at the prospect of getting your special day in front of that golden cup. You can warm your hands with it in March. Ahhhhh.

joe pro's
By: Rinaldo Tank
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:28am

Now you can all tell your girlfriends you'll be a few minutes late. Gotta go get DOPE TESTED just like Lance Armstrong. Gosh, being a joe-pro bike racer is tough.

Laugh Now...Mock all you want
By: Dx
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:18am

Just wait until you see how many jerk offs get caught OR just quietly disappear to either selectively race in non-CRCA events or "retire".

I am willing to bet that DA is not the only CRCAer who used PEDs in last three years...oh, wait, he's not - there was Liban and Chodroff

You really believe that only those that dope get caught?

And, its more than just "cheating" it is showing a total lack of respect for the sport, fellow racers and our community.

No one wants to test, but a few idots have brought us to this point.

wow yippee we are gonna be
By: juan pelota
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 2:06am

wow yippee we are gonna be tested for preformance enhancers! this shit is gonna make me feel so pro! gonna make me walk around in my chamois with a boner!

Traded a couple of emails
By: Andy Shen
Fri, 07/27/2012 - 12:15am

Traded a couple of emails with usada. You can specify exactly what you want to test for, so no worries for weed or supplements if that's the program you choose.

I hope it happens!
By: Dan Zmolik
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:56pm

I really hope it works out. I'm sure chip in page could be created, as well as minimal increase in membership fee, or a registration fee to generate funds to help with testing. Considering all the insane bikes people ride I don't think $10 in yearly membership is going to hurt anyone, but could buy 10 tests.

It's really interesting to see people freaking out about it. How many meds are you people on that you can't look it up? What supplements do you take, that you have to worry? Might want to consider a reputable company, or just look into proper nutrition and save bunch of money ylu waste on something that is most likely just over hyped chocolate milk. Your asthma inhaler is probably not even on the list and if it is, chances are you don't even need a TUE, unless you inhale the whole thing before each race. And that sudafed in your claritin d, well you're gonna have to learn to race without it, as it is actually doping. I got nothing for you pot smokers. You're screwed. You're the biggest victims of DA's doping.

Bottom line is, by getting a license all of us subscribed to follow the rules, which include WADA / USADA protocols and to be available for drug testing regardless of whether or not CRCA initiates that.(shithead Armstrong is currently trying to dispute that in the court, but it does not seem to go that well).

1-800-TUGBOAT if we need to
By: Vincent, please case
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:32pm


if we need to fund the CRCA doping testing program, may I suggest a book sale?


and remember, Jared Bunde is for the children

Anyone have...
By: Vincent Cogset
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:05pm

Anyone have DA's number? My Labrador is getting up in age and I want to give him a little pep in his step. Trying to get the dog walk out the way faster so I can get my train on for Prospect and CP World Championships.

Play Clean Line 1-877-752-9253 doesn't count for mans best friend...not yet at least.

Your meds are almost surely
By: Palla Housing
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:51pm

Your meds are almost surely not on the banned list. Look it up: http://www.globaldro.com/us-en/ Pot and PEDs, on the other hand, ...

He's going to the Olympics!!
By: Sven Jenson
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:41pm

He's going to the Olympics!!

Vaughters freakish Dauphine
By: The Velo Historian
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 7:17pm

Vaughters freakish Dauphine performance was in 1999 and 2000, Postal and Credit A, so it's hard to say.

VERY funny to read Vaughters lying around and about his past back in 2003 though--


So JV how the hell did you ride up Ventoux so fast?

Guess he taught Farrar and Danielson his bike handling skills if nothing else.

I hear
By: Joe deMunk
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 7:13pm

I hear they'll be able to test you from your cell phone... wild

another fraud "talent"
By: Joe deMunk
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 7:12pm

another fraud "talent" post ...

dude that's a lot of shit being thrown around - if you've got stories (credible stories) that's what we want to hear lay it out there

what's up with timmy dugan??

Calm down..
By: Cat4Forever
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 7:12pm

Privacy? You aren't getting unexpected visits to your home from the USADA agent. Most likely you have to be tested if you placed. Not sure how to enforce out of competition testing. I am looking forward to see how things would unfold. If not for couple of years, at least a season with doping controls. I wonder how many riders would get tested positive. How many riders would stop racing in the CRCA races. How many riders would leave CRCA and to decide to race for another non-crca teams. Would Charlie I implement doping controls in his Lucarelli race series? What about FBF? Of course, the initial shock factor would last a while but ultimately we would get used to it. I am pretty sure a career cat4 like myself would not worry about getting tested, unless the club has too much money.

Invasion of Privacy
By: Counter
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 6:48pm

If this is all true, I'm OUT of the CRCA. This is a total invasion of privacy for stupid loops in the park and a $10 payout.

I have a better idea...
By: Lapo Ziptie
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 5:17pm

CRCA - instead of paying for testing - buys everybody a power meter and makes members share their data.

Pulls never apologize and
By: Galleazzo Internal Routing
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:30pm

Pulls never apologize and accept the ban. He has a poster of him wining univest in a bike shop.Bunde and lisban shouldn't be accept in Crca.

another fraud "talent"
By: Tim Duggan is
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:27pm

another fraud "talent" formerly signed by arrogant doper crybaby Jonathan Vaughters... Duggan can stay up better than Tyler Farrar sure but who can't except Tom Fucking Danielson?

talking about no-chance American bike racers on the international stage is as tiresome as thinking about Grand Fucko anything.

I have zero use for the USADA
By: Taint Nobody's Business
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:24pm

I have zero use for the USADA or drama queen park (or Fondo) racers but anyone under the illusion Bunde and his "tainted supplments" would have been vindicated ought to read the Scott Moninger decision--


playing fifth rate amateur cop the way ya'll play fifth rate amateur bike racers will change nothing...

And what if I suck in too much weed smoke on the Flatbush side of Prospect? Hardly an unlikely occurrence...

Timmy Duggan to BH
By: Benjamin Headbadge
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:19pm

Timmy Duggan to BH

Who is Timmy Duggan? Does he
By: Galleazzo Torque
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:17pm

Who is Timmy Duggan? Does he know DA?

Seriously though, did you
By: Otto Von Ballslinger
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:14pm

Seriously though, did you guys hear about Timmy Duggan??

Ray has been around long enough...
By: Cat4Forever
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:55pm

Good point Ray. Yeah, Ray has been around long enough to see that to make it big in the cycling world, riders have to start small from the grass-root level. Our park races. I hope dopers aren't hiding behind the "amateur excuses" to condone and to continue to dope.

By: Jordan Supple
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:48pm

Bong Hits for Mengoni

Nice post Ray. I'm not
By: ...
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:48pm

Nice post Ray.

I'm not ashamed of my opinions. I'm just A) too lazy to remember my registration and log in B) see no reason to go against the current of anonymous posting. Dan and Andy obviously like the environment it fosters.

Ray Alba's Champ Sys post
By: Jon
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:41pm

Great post Ray, I really hope everyone has a chance to read it, we need more like you willing to share their thoughts unashamedly

From the looks of most park
By: Guido Topcap
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:35pm

From the looks of most park racers you're mostly in danger of testing positive for Chipotle.

This is a classic over-spaz. You're all amateurs; just because a few lifeless freaks with no sense of proportion want to dress up and play Paris-Nice doesn't mean the CRCA has to call in the gendarmes. You may pop a doper now and again but if the CRCA throws random testing into a pack of Dads mostly you're going to be mortifying guys for allergy pills, Rogaine and bong hits.

And the idea of anyone challenging testing as being a doping suspect: you're reading too much Kafka.

Sack dopers for life from the club, suspend a team with a doping positive. The CRCA currently does neither, and that will do more than enough.

Hi, Is LSD on the banned list
By: Andrea Rear Entry
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:35pm

Hi, Is LSD on the banned list for in competition use? Asking for a friend... Thanks!

I'd rather see the testing
By: bone
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:35pm

I'd rather see the testing money go to the juniors and continue to believe/hope that doping is isolated to a few assholes.

So we will ban for
By: Baldo Wave Ring
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:28pm

So we will ban for subsistence abuse but not for physical abuse?

Seriously though, there will
By: Doffo Rivnut
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:23pm

Seriously though, there will e a revolt if CRCA members can't smoke weed...

Also, kudos to anyone who wins a park race High.

I hope Champion System is not
By: Vincent Cogset
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:16pm

I hope Champion System is not controlling this testing program. I would hate to find out their tests are in favor of their riders. The Play Clean Line 1-877-752-9253 number would literally blow up.

And yes its on speed dial so please give me a reason to use it.

Good idea
By: Jay Mueller
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:12pm

Testing at CRCA races is an excellent idea, for the reasons outlined in Ray's post...the CRCA is a centralized group of races and as Ray stated, is part of the launching pad for NYC's future pro talent. I don't see why anybody would be opposed to it.

Doping is pervasive in the amateur ranks and increasingly common among masters...a huge ring was busted last year in Kansas...and every step you can make to flush the turds into the sewer is worthwhile.

Pro hairstyling.
By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:07pm

Pro hairstyling. Brooklylicious!

Hincapie is a natural talent
By: HIncapie
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:04pm

Hincapie is a natural talent AND a huge doper-- he didn't get the nickname HGH for nothing.

I like Georgie too but I'm not a goddamn puritan like some people too.

Otherwise, the list of NYC "pros" is so lame as make this discussion pointless except to pretend that any of ya'll are even sub-sub-sub-elite, let alone sub-elite.

did David Somerville ever turn pro?

From USADA prohibited list:
By: Rockers
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:02pm

S8. Cannabinoids
Natural or synthetic tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and THC-like cannabinoids (e.g. hashish, marijuana, HU-210) are prohibited.
1. Athletes should be aware that cannabinoids may be retained in fat tissue following chronic use and may be detected weeks after use. There have been situations where sudden weight loss has caused cannabinoid metabolites stored in fat to be released in detectable levels. USADA strongly advises against cannabinoids during competition as there have been many instances of athletes suddenly leaving the field in pursuit of Domino's pizza trucks.

of bike racing nerds is
By: the self importance
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:01pm

of bike racing nerds is reaching an all-time "high." that any of you knuckleheads would spend $1 on 'drug testing' park races is as absurd as... the knuckleheads racing their carbon tubulars and walking barefoot to the finish line when they flat.

if i was sponsor, i'd REFUSE to fund this nonsense on general principle.

Tho' maybe if Floyd had testing back when I could have beat Juan Pineda!!

Wait'll you see the doping
By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:00pm

Wait'll you see the doping surcharges on your entry fees. Then you'll balk at the dope testing.

Looks like video just killed
By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:53pm

Looks like video just killed the radio star. Game over. You've all lost your marbles. Bike racing is officially no longer any fun.

Why give money to CRCA to
By: Marco Seatmast
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:51pm

Why give money to CRCA to test for doping in club races? Does anyone really think that there is a bigger problem in CRCA races than in the local open races?

The backlash to testing here
By: Galleazzo Butyl
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:26pm

The backlash to testing here is really eye-opening. It only makes me more certain we need it as soon as possible.

Testing outside of USADA has
By: Marco Seatmast
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:17pm

Testing outside of USADA has no standing in the sport. It's questionable if CRCA has the right to set up its own testing program with its own rules.

By: Schiatta Headset
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:01pm

I think this would apply to everyone who races in the parks:

I'm a recreational or masters level athlete, but I like to compete in events and races. Do I need a TUE?
You may need a TUE depending on the level at which you compete. If you compete at events sanctioned by an International Sporting Federation, then you need to obtain TUEs for prohibited substances along the same lines as an athlete in a Testing Pool of the International Federation. If you compete at a National level or below, then the requirements for TUEs vary based upon the medication. To determine if you need a TUE, visit the TUE page on USADA's website, and consult USADA's policy on TUEs . Please note, sometimes "international Events" are held in the United States, and not all events occurring in another country are considered "International Events" for the purposes of TUEs.

love it
By: Dylan Nipple
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:57pm

Everyone is vehement about punishing dopers but when the mere idea of a testing program is brought up opposition comes out of the woodwork. What a joke.

By: Schiatta Headset
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:57pm


Do inhaled asthma medications need to be declared?
As of January 1, 2011, references to Declarations have been removed from the WADA 2011 Prohibited List. This includes the inhaled beta-2 agonists Albuterol and Salmeterol, and Glucocorticosteroids such as Fluticasone and Budesonide. These medications no longer need to be declared to USADA or the International Federation prior to use. The medications should still be listed (declared) on the DCOR at the time of testing.

By: Schiatta Headset
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:56pm
If CRCA is going to do drug
By: Schiatuzzo Locknut
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:51pm

If CRCA is going to do drug testing it will need to do some education of the membership regarding what substances are banned. A 4 year ban for some 35+ cat 3 for taking Claritin D seems kind of harsh as I doubt most would even realize that one of its active ingredients is banned for in-competition use.

How do you get a TUE?

There are rules to the game,
By: Mr Clean
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:41pm

There are rules to the game, and when you sign up for a race (or a license) you agree to follow them. If you don't want to follow them then don't play. Nobody is bitching and moaning about not being able to mix fields or break some other rule. Don't use PED's and you have nothing to worry about. It's really quite simple.

If you have asthma, ghonorhea, or an inverted penis, then try to get a TUE for whatever it is that you are taking. It is unfortunate that it has come to this, but hopefully these actions will shake some sense into the sport that we all enjoy.

Not down with testing
By: Threadlock
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:33pm

Well if everyone wants clean local racing but no testing, then just save your race entry fees and hit up the Rocket Ride, or Gimbels every weekend. you can get your weekend warrior on with the rest of the fatties on colnagos and Enve Wheels and even place from time to time at the final sprint.

this sport is so stupid on so so many levels.... now I am off to get in some 2x20s before my next conference call.

Don't worry about the money
By: Marco Seatmast
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:32pm

Don't worry about the money for the junior program. Any parent who would let their kid near you guys should have their head examined.

Your club does not have a
By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:16pm

Your club does not have a doping problem. The idiots that choose to dope...have the doping problem. Have pity on them and ride your bike round and round that park...but fast.

By: Bernardo Plug
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:02pm

this is great. everyone's all up in arms about cheaters/dopers, string them up, ban them, the guy's a tool/pathetic/loser, etc. etc. now when they're the ones facing the possibility of testing there's a million and one reasons why not, i'm just pack fill, i take meds because i'm 40/50, why waste money on the cat 3/4/5, we're not pros so it doesn't matter, um you know, i mean, like, test the guys who dope, not me.

keep 'em coming......

Can the crca test for
By: schmalz
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:54pm

Can the crca test for prostrate problems? That way I can kill two birds with one stone here...

Who's going to decide what
By: Paolo Downtube
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:48pm

Who's going to decide what goes on the list, the CRCA board? Will there be a vice president of antidoping, along with the marshal director and treasurer? Awesome, now we can have the same Spy vs. Spy in cat 3 racing that we read about in the pros.

I think in the same way DA said he woke up and realized he was off the deep end when he got busted, we all need to take a step back and say, when you're talking about having an amateur bike racing club design a custom drug testing protocol for its members, you are way off the deep end. We are not pros, there are no stakes here, it's a hobby. Stop taking yourselves so seriously.

your health requires
By: ...
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:44pm

your health requires medication and you smoke dope?

OK, assuming you can put the weed aside any of the drugs you actually need to take you can likely get a TUE for. If you have cataracts you may even be able to get a TUE for the pot.

CRCA & Champ Sys
By: Ben Fackler
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:44pm

Good move by the CRCA. It's sad that we are contemplating testing at our club events, but in light of the news over the past year it's needed. I'm hopeful that there will be sufficient support from the cycling community to prevent dramatic decreases in other priority expenditures, such as the junior program. Thanks ChampSys for leading the way in that regard.

Hey DA thanks stupid f...ck.
By: Galleazzo Internal Routing
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:35pm

Hey DA thanks stupid f...ck. I am a 44 years old cat 4 with 3 kids and very busy schedule of work. I take a lot of medication for my health and smoke weed. Out of crca

When I race
By: Threadlock
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:33pm

do I wear my jersey over or under my bibshorts? Also, what are the benefits of shaving my legs for my first Category 5 race?

I nominate this for....
By: star struck
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:26pm

...Best Post of the Year!

Let's be real. If everyone in CRCA were tested right now I'd bet that 1/4 of the fieled would be positive for weed of some type. Might make a great Political platform for one of the tolerance related causes.

By: mv
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:18pm

To be clear: We are at a very early stage in researching the options around a testing program. The board is investing a lot of time in this research - testing procedures will only be established once we have a thorough understanding of all aspects of a testing program, including costs, procedures, etc. If you have thoughts / concerns / insight on testing feel free to reach out to any board member.


It doesn't say that they're
By: Andy Shen
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:36am

It doesn't say that they're going to use USADA to do the testing. They could hire someone else to do it and ask them to test only for EPO, HGH, or whatever else.

The problem with the WADA
By: JOhn
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:27am

The problem with the WADA list is that there are a lot of things on there that you could ingest in any number of ways. OTC medications, supplements. These are things that could be prescribed by a doctor or bought in a store. Unless you're aware of what's on the list and monitor what you ingest you run a risk of failing. We're not talking about some pro looking for an excuse to get out on a masking agent here. And your doctor's prescription doesn't mean anything. You need to file for a Therapeutic Use Exemption in advance (unless you're Lance and can get in back dated) in case you're tested.

Now of course as USAC licensed cyclists any of us are subject to testing and would run into the same problem. The concern seems to be elevating the likelihood of this occurring, which of course is one way to go with the general attitude that David Anthony is an asshole and doping in amateur racing in NY is rampant.

So the guy who is allergic to cats and sucks on an inhaler could get the same two year suspension that David Anthony got for EPO. The list is pretty long and an interesting read if nothing more than the 'oh, shit' factor.

By: Heffee
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:23am

Do you really think the CRCA is going to spend hundreds of dollars to test some old cat 4 pack fodder? Seriously, get over yourself because that is a serious waste of money. Unless you are riding away from the field or continually winning then you have nothing to worry about. Just keep on sucking and you will be fine.

OK cranky pants
By: Antoine Kevlar
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:12am

Why do you care if people want to donate to a anti-doping program? More power to em. If you're clean then you have nothing to worry about and this might actually help you. I know for a fact that my results over the years would look quite different if you took the dirty guys out in front of me.

Don't be angry that it's come to this and that you think it's overkill. Quite clearly it's not. The bad ones always ruin it for everyone else. If anything, you'll nab a few more and that might be deterrent enough. It'll also be quite clear if there's a mass exodus of the fast guys from CRCA teams if a legit control program starts and is effective.

David Anthony, Do not
By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 5:01am

David Anthony,

Do not apologize unless you're willing to do two things:

A) tell us who sold it to you

B) tell us who kept you alive while you took it (IE, your advisor).



cat 4-ever
By: wanda pelota
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:26am

i love the worried pack-fill in the B-field worried about their pot smoking habits. somehow, i have a feeling that you are never going to be tested when you cross the line in 47th place.

By: Matteo Tigweld
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:22am
Houston, we have a problem....
By: Dx
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:17am

The data doesn't lie...

According to USADA Website, since 2001 there have been:

79 suspensions of cyclists

70 cyclists suspended (some have been suspended more than once, this is why its a lower number)

Of these, 5 were CRCA members (not including Melite "Pulla" Heredia who was riding under an international license at the time of his suspension. Including him, that is 6).

USA Cycling has a current membership of approximately 70,800. I estimate the CRCA membership at 800. Thus, CRCA members represent about 1.1% of the USA Cycling Membership and 7.1% (5/70) of the total USADA suspensions since 2001. In round numbers, CRCA has 6.5x more doping suspensions than average. This would be even higher if one were to exclude the Pros who were suspended (Landis, Hamilton, Clinger, Zirbel, etc) and included Pulla's suspension.

It may only seem like a few bad apples, but statistically speaking, we have a big problem here.

Let's go for the full monty
By: Marco Seatmast
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:11am

Let's go for the full monty and implement the Biological Passport. Simple testing doesn't work as most dopers, LA, Marion Jones ... never failed a test. Andy spent more than 5 years making the case that passing tests didn't prove that LA didn't dope.

CRCA members are spending more than $10K a year on equipment , coaching, teams, race fees. What's another $10,000 or so per member to join the Passport program.

Pablo downtube: true
By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:07am

Pablo downtube: true dat!

These guys just want to tell their girlfriends that they had to do a dope test (just like Lance did).

I say test, but don't test
By: Jens Neck
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:01am

I say test, but don't test for bullshit borderline stuff that could show up in over the counter medications, athsma inhalers etc. Just the big boys....Anabolic steroids, EPO, testosterone, HGH, amphetamines. You are not going to have the resources at this level to be too sophisticated, it's largely symbolic.

And definitely not Performance Decreasing Drugs like weed....who the cares about that?

Race of Smarts
By: Giovanni Threadlock
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:51am

Yeah, dopers never win in Central Park...

Except Pulla.

By: Noah Rim
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:47am

We all know that even some prospect parkers dope. So what? We know who they are.

I think you may be losing sight of this
By: teh rules
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:41am

The club exists to provide bicycle racing and bicycling activities for the enjoyment of its Members, to promote bicycling as a sport and generally advance the interests of cycling through organized races, coaching and training events.

Christopher Johnson, why are
By: Paolo Downtube
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:39am

Christopher Johnson, why are you putting an "About CRCA" section on your ridiculous press release? You don't speak for the CRCA or anybody in it except for your own team members. You guys need to get over yourselves. You're a bunch of rich kids with an expensive hobby. Nobody cares about your results or your sponsors or whether you competed "clean." You are not elite athletes, you're in a glorified bowling league. Subjecting yourself to drug testing is just a way of stroking your absurd egos.

important than supporting New
By: yeah, drug testing is more
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:31am

important than supporting New York and Brooklyn Public Libraries and a jillion other social services, etc. (Not to mention carbon wheels for everyone!) I scorn the NYC peloton dopers, think Foundation and Mengoni are dipshits for bringing back dopers (and anyone who believes Bunde had 'tainted supplements' must also sleep with a Tugboat the dog stuffed animal)...

Club races are not an effective place to test.
By: Nico Moser
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:21am

Central (and Prospect) Park races are races against the other riders, not against the course. Another way to put it is they are races to see who is smarter, not races to see who is stronger.

I assume doping helps more with races of strength than with races of smarts, so testing top placers at a race of smarts is not going to be much more effective than random testing.

In fact random testing at a race of smarts may not find that many dopers since the appeal of such a race to a doper is limited. (I couldn't find David Anthony's name in the CRCA club race results, for what it's worth.)

Test at time trials, hilly races, and endurance-fests and you will find your dopers, or at least your EPO users.

But what do I know? I've never doped.

Full Circle Insanity
By: Michele Saddlebag
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:13am

Hasn't it? All this is the real reason to be upset with Dave Anthony. He actually fucking went there. EPO. Totally nuts. And it's made the rest of us paranoid.

Note that none of us here are talking about EPO. "Drat, I've got renal cell carcinoma and I need EPO just to function. What if I forget my doctor's note on race day?" No one is saying that. We're all passingly familiar with the USADA rules, and the tainted meat that poor poor Contador ate, and track athletes getting busted for ephedrine, and uh, weed (which obviously doesn't improve your performance, but there it is on the list, plain as day.) And we're thinking what the fuck happened to just being a skinny nerd on a bike?

I hear he's going to the
By: Mathieu Rear Entry
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:11am

I hear he's going to the Olympics!!!

Yeah but can we get back to
By: Mathieu Rear Entry
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:09am

Yeah but can we get back to this riveting Timmy Duggan story??

By: Beast
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:08am

Thanks DA - you dick! Now we all have to shovel the turd you dropped on our hobby.

this topic has now gone full
By: Victor Tubie
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:02am

this topic has now gone full circle insanity.

one more thing
By: teh rules
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:56am

that's if your record is clean so far. No? a dui? hey, you could be looking at jail time. But, hey, you can be sure no one who went around FBF faster than you was on anything. so you got that going for you...

listen to michele saddlebag
By: teh rules
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:53am

that shit is real, truth. positive for something you didn't realize was in medication you were taking, and next thing you know you can't coach your son's team, and you have to check that box when applying for a job. Is it worth it? Why do you care so much whether someone is doping?

Getting rid of the dopers seemed like such a good idea
By: Clean Bottle
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:50am

Until you actually said you were going to test. Does that mean I can't huff an Albuterol before a race anymore for my "asthma"?
You mean this Andro Gel is not legal? Just tell the dopers not to dope anymore.

By: the rules
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:42am

if you refuse a USADA test you get an automatic 2 year ban.

just FYI when you paid for your USA Cycling license you agreed to submit to testing so leaving the CRCA won't change anything

it may seem a bit too much for a weekend softball league but if it gets rid of doping people should be happy

Why the cognitive dissonance
By: Michele Saddlebag
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:37am

To those who can't believe all the anti-test opinions being voiced here:

Bike racing is a fun thing we do at the crack of dawn. Drug testing is not fun.

Many of us are old enough and wise enough to know that if CRCA begins testing for all kinds of stuff, there will be unintended consequences. A guy smokes a jay at a party on Sunday. He gets tested after placing 3rd in B field the following Saturday and by Monday Child Protective Services has taken away his kids. This sort of thing actually happens.

Oh Also
By: Michele Saddlebag
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:33am

What about that stuff I get from GNC? Jac3d and POWERFUL? Is it going to ruin my life that I'm a sucker for snake oil?

I am amazed
By: Wow
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:32am

How can this community roast DA and then not support a drug testing program? All the posters who bashed DA should be applauding the effort to clean up this sport, especially in our community. For all of the posters who are leaving the CRCA because they don't want to be tested can go do Gran Fondo's. Oh wait, they test as well!

How do you know/
By: David Blume
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:31am


How do you know what CRCA is planning with respect to testing? - they only made the announcement today...

If you place...
By: Cat4Forever
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:28am

I would think that if you placed but refused to be tested, the team can kick you out of the club. The team may even be asking USCF to ban you as well.

CRCA is talking about having
By: Adam Tigweld
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:27am

CRCA is talking about having USADA carry out the testing. There is no "Oh hey guys can you only check for roids and epo?" with them. If its on the banned substance list and it shows up. You're screwed. So be careful what cold medication, allergy medicine, or vitamins you buy from now on.

it's important
By: teh rules
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:25am

to make sure people aren't cheating, because....why, exactly? speaking of which,I will gladly pee in a cup when you start suspending people for jogging lane violations, and picking fights while on a bike, etc...trying to crash others out.

By: eh
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:23am

so now me and whoever else quits is labeled a doper because we don't want to be tested. Some of us would leave on ethical grounds. flame away, but I'm serious.

i'm all for testing because
By: Ethan Dropout
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:22am

i'm all for testing because doing it at all will only catch more local dopers, sooner or later. then well have a fresh person to rip to fucking shreds again. sweet.

It's about the hassle
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:25am

The thing is that racing bikes is my hobby. I do it for fun. It is a dumb thing for a man at the cusp of middle age to do, rolling around central park at 25 mph with a bunch of other mostly nearly-middle aged dudes. But I enjoy it. The part that I enjoy is the part where I'm on the bike, rolling around. It feels free.

The other stuff that one must do in order to be free on a bike, signing up for the club,having a license, marshaling races, waking up at 4 AM, does not feel free. Peeing in a cup or having a saliva swab taken is not liberating. I'm sure some dorks will feel a thrill of legitimacy if they get tested. That's why GFNY had testing in place to begin with. But for me it'll be another hassle added to something that I do for fun.

Nothing wrong with a little
By: hater69
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:18am

Nothing wrong with a little pee in a cup but don't kid your self, out of competition testing is certainly an invasion of privacy.

By: David Blume
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:12am

Why all the resistance to testing? I would think that just random spot testing of winners is enough, not everyone. And, I would think that EPO (blood boosters) and steroids are enough. If you don't want to get hassled, then don't place.

By: 420Lover
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:12am


preach on brother man

maybe the CRCA can distribute protection before races also............

serious question though--i'm
By: cutty
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:11am

serious question though--i'm stoned for about 90% of the races i attend. is this really going to be a problem?

I just saved 50% on my car
By: Lukas Fork
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:11am

I just saved 50% on my car insurance.

Why all the push back?
By: Cosimo Tank
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:10am

Pleased to see that CRCA is taking this stance. USAC certainty happy to take our money but not police the sport from which they derive their very existence. Steve Johnson and crew talk a good game but unless you are a Euro pro quality, they have no interest in amateurs beyond their annual license/race fees. Piss on USAC (pun intended).

Based on all the negative comments the announcement has received on this forum, perhaps there is a bit more doping going on in the NYC peloton than I had thought?

If one is not doping, what is the harm with a little pee in a cup following a race? Infringing on your rights/privacy?

By: Michele Saddlebag
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:09am

No. Seriously. What were we talking about?

I would hate the idea too
By: Judge Wapner
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:08am

If I wasn't clean.
Let's see who goes and "races their Ferrari" now.

you guys should be testing
By: cutty
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:04am

you guys should be testing for herpes too

it's really just me
By: eh
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:02am

One guy posting all the don't test comments. I just change my name. And I was never crying foul, so not that weird. (Ok, I posted all but one, so I guess there are 2 of us)

just test the winners. is it
By: Esteban Steerer
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:01am

just test the winners. is it really that complicated?

then the guy who pulled the entire last lap at 35 mph and dropped off before the final sprint to finish 15th will forever be known in that category as "le sandbageur."

Not random I would guess
By: &
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:01am

My guess is that they wont be testing B and C pack fill at $750 a pop.

This is getting funnier by the minutes...
By: Cat4Forever
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:54am

You all hate dopers and want doping controls to expose the cheaters. Now, you don't want doping controls in your local park races???? Make up your mind, please. You either condone doping or you are against it. You want a "don't ask and don't tell and don't test policy" when comes to doping in our park races??? And you cry foul when some local top racers tested positive for doping??? Are you a republican? Can you spell hypocrites???

By: Siebe Downtube
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:53am

Wow there are a lot of folks who seem to be backing down from stands they took only one day ago.

f(*& that
By: no way jose
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:51am

I will not be a part of a club that asks it's members for samples. Never. So long. Maybe you should have at least polled your members?

By: same here
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:49am

I think the crca should think about this a bit more. The risk/reward to doping in amateurs takes care of this problem. A guy wants to dope to win 50 bucks in a park race? Go ahead, hardly worth it, and certainly doesn't pay for itself. There are rules against pros doing it for other obvious reasons, level playing field, etc, but it's different in park races. This is an overreaction.

I'm assuming the testing will
By: Rayan Dropout
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:47am

I'm assuming the testing will be for all categories? I'm just a relatively lame 4 who does this to keep fit. I'm usually just packfill, but I don't even care, I'm just happy to be part of the scene. There are MANY like me in CRCA. I understand the reasoning but it's just going to deter the club's bread and butter riders who race despite all the obstacles thrown up in front of us... significant others, kids, work, etc.

This DA guy was a classic Minster (male spinster) filling a hole in his life through bike racing and he went too far down the rabbit hole. For those of us with plenty of stuff to keep us occupied, the chance of us doping is honestly less than zero. Just my .01.

Same here
By: Mathis Hammer
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:42am

I'm an older cat 4, never won a race and probably never will. I'm not a pro and I have no interest in worrying about everything I put in my body. I take shit for allergies and asthma and various supplements just for health, but do I need to worry that something is in what I take and end up in national news for doping to do some low level racing in the park. Fuck that shit, I'm out of CRCA if this ridiculousness comes to pass.

Same here
By: Mathis Hammer
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:42am

I'm an older cat 4, never won a race and probably never will. I'm not a pro and I have no interest in worrying about everything I put in my body. I take shit for allergies and asthma and various supplements just for health, but do I need to worry that something is in what I take and end up in national news for doping to do some low level racing in the park. Fuck that shit, I'm out of CRCA if this ridiculousness comes to pass.

right on bunde
By: geez
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:29am

This is really over the top ridiculous. I will not be renewing my membership to the CRCA. I don't believe in or support drug testing in amateur sporting events. Would you all be for this if they were doing it to your son's little league or high school team?

Hey looks like somebody
By: Brifter
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:19am

Hey looks like somebody filmed a few of my fellow CRCA subteam members getting ready for last weekend's Central Park race.


PCP pep
By: liquiguts
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:05am

Anyone know how long it takes for PCP to clear the system without diuretics?

Doping checking for Weed?
By: Michele Saddlebag
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:00am

Weed is on the list of official banned substances. Will this attitude be reflected in the CRCA testing scheme? My occasional marijuana habit has helped me crush the middle of 1 race in Cat 5, and may have even allowed me to finish several races despite the soul-destroying shame of getting dropped time and time again. I hate to think of myself as a cheater, but clearly Mary Jane has given me an advantage.

All kidding aside. Will there be testing for weed? I can't have a positive for marijuana coming up on any official documents. I imagine many of my fellow CRCA members are in the same boat (Hello Members of the Bar, Officers of the Court and Certified Public Accountants!) If testing includes marijuana, I've got to quit the club and I imagine I'm not alone.

Love how the Olsen posts keep
By: Dylan Pulley
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:45am

Love how the Olsen posts keep on getting deleted

You have my support
By: David Blume
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:30am

Good going guys.

I am in favor. We don't have to test every winner of every race - just random spot testing. That should be enough to send the message that we all take this problem seriously. It may be a sad state of affairs that it has come to this, but it is what it is. Clearly, there is a problem and we should not turn a blind eye just because we think it shouldn't be needed.

How about a 'chip in' sponsored by CRCA? This way we can each decide if its something we want to support monetarily.

is still investigating-- all
By: Bunde, like OJ
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:28am

is still investigating-- all in good time. Pretty apt that Giuliani/Bloomturd-era NYC would devolve to this... Lance obsessive website gets its own rider popped, overreacts self-rigtehously, right on.

leave it to nanny state nyc
By: geez
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:11am

to be the first to test at amateur races. no thanks

very sad
By: Jacopo Seatmast
Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:07am

It's sad that is has come to this, but I guess it is necessary. $5k could get a few bikes and coaching for juniors. If it's necessary, it would be nice of other well funded teams stepped up to help fund the program.

By: Esteban Swage
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:19pm

ahhh ya.... being that champ sys has some dudes that are suspect. And im not talking about there young bucks...meaning 45+ cat 2's-cat 1's that have more money than god to buy all sorts of go fast stuff (ie) bikes,wheels,oxygen tents,teams. its good timing on there part.Thats for sure.

F*ckin overreaction. I'm
By: b
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:05pm

F*ckin overreaction. I'm going back to street hockey. They drink more than you wankers.

That's great
By: M. Vinnicomb
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:02pm

Now I'll go ride for a non-crca team and keep doping.

After reading some of the
By: Benjamin Bearing
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:59pm

After reading some of the posts of the last few days, I would prefer for an IQ test

By: Good job
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:53pm

Its good to see the someone finally stepped up to get something done.

so if that's true, then stop
By: Jens Rear Entry
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:36pm

so if that's true, then stop testing nd leave it like that,

Release the tests? What are
By: Robin Brakepad
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:36pm

Release the tests? What are you talking about? The tests are public knowledge just like every USADA test. You can go on the USADA website and search by name and see how many times someone has been tested.

Lance is the most tested
By: Giovanni Threadlock
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:33pm

Lance is the most tested athlete period. over 500+ tests, all negative.

Two FOundation guys got
By: Jens Rear Entry
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:32pm

Two FOundation guys got tested last year at one big race, results came negative and none said nothing about it. FOudatuin should release the tests. Everyone knows who is who here, but there are people unsuspected that are in to PED.

Great news! May rock the
By: Juicersbeware
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:17pm

Great news! May rock the foundatioN on the house.

Great news! May rock the
By: Juicersbeware
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:17pm

Great news! May rock the foundatioN on the house.

I find that a splash of
By: R. Apha
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:14pm

I find that a splash of Stan's tire sealant to be quite lovely with my English Breakfast tea.

depends... are you on
By: Rear Entry
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:02pm

depends... are you on foundation?

are the payouts for CRCA
By: Giovanni Threadlock
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:01pm

are the payouts for CRCA races still going to be about 10 dollars for first place?

this is the equivalent of
By: Rear Entry
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:00pm

this is the equivalent of calling the FBI to investigate a bratty kid stealing a cd or whatever the fuck kids steal nowadays

By: Jon
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 9:40pm

Which one?

That's good news but
By: Yanis Wave Ring
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 9:35pm

Who's that clown in the cover picture?

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