Hangover May 21, 2012

Good place to ask. You'll surely get authoritative information here.

Houlihan won the womens race but Kristin Lotito was listed as suspended on the roster last week. So Houlihan gets no points for last Saturday's race? Correct?

So excited for branchbrook. Awsome 1 corner course in the nicest park in the worst area. Yippy.

I heard a rumor that Ray Smith is opening a new shop in Jersey and getting back into the racing game. Anyone else hear this rumor? I heard he owns a few bike rental centers on Sandy Hook.

Ronnie K.

I hear Echelon is taking on new team members? Sign me up. I want to do park races and hop in different fields while ignoring the cries of others. In it for the glory.

Wonder if this is how they got the stripes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU1iq9rqYJ0

Does he really care about seeing his name in the CRCA club race results? He got his $100 bonus from Inwood anyway, didn't he?

I really don't understand all the hate against Foundation. None of them have been caught doping this year. Yet.

I was about to give you a few more examples to clarify why one must punish the whole team, but then decided not to and to cut to the chase. If you don't get this, you're an idiot. "it just feels wrong?!" shupup.

I think you need to retake "team 101" also. I hear the class is offered at your participating Specialized dealer. This week only, buy one and the second one for free. Take Inson with you.

Of course Adam is disappointed, but that's part of being on a "team". If he doesn't want to be penalized for his teammates stupid and cheating ways(possibly causing much greater consequences for the team, club and racing in CP)

Again if he didnt like it, he can race unattached or...Paulie is accepting new members on Echelon cycles!

Look at how many great races have disappeared over the past 5 years - this year Housie is gone (on the ropes last year) and soon all we'll know is racing around parking lots.

Stop bitching about race fees and support your local events.

Didn't say it was. He jumped in the field when riders from other teams were being turned away because of the field limit. So that's an extra rider, in the sense that he didn't belong in the race.

Can someone please clarify.

Yes -- it does suck for Adam. I feel bad him. But that's kind of the point of a team punishment -- guys might not feel too bad about shirking a CRCA rule or two, but they probably don't want to screw their own teammates out of results. The punishment puts the long-term interests of the group (the CRCA) ahead of the short-term interests of an individual. It's probably pretty effective: I'm guessing no Foundation rider will jump in a race again without registering for a while.

Flange, Inson wasn't the 10th Foundation rider in the A field, Foundation did not have 10 riders in the A field. This is not what the punishment was for.

In football when there are 12 men on the field, the refs don't just punish the one doofus who couldn't count. And if a running back has a TD called back on the play, he doesn't go whining that he had no idea there was an extra man on the field. Bike racing is a team sport, and having extra riders in a field is an advantage, never mind that having a teammate who violates the field limit jeopardizes racing for everyone else in the CRCA. Team sanctions are a longstanding CRCA policy, and rightly so. Part of being on a team is policing other guys who screw up or slack off. Siggis had a win vacated a few weeks back because someone skipped out on marshaling. I'm sure they felt like crap too, but chances are those guys will be showing up to marshal. So it's pretty simple: if you want your team to hang onto results, make sure everyone is marshaling, registering for races they enter, and otherwise following the rules.

If I read the CRCA site correctly, Inson was not the 10th rider in the field, it is alleged he participated in the race without registering after registration was closed due to the field limit being reached. So the 'enter the race with 20 riders' analogy isn't on point exactly.

The ban the whole team rule is only ever applied to missing one's marshal duty. That's fair as the rule is clear, although it is not applied consistently. You can police your teammates and make sure they don't drop the ball there. Put yourself in Adam's shoes and try to see things from his perspective. It just doesn't feel right.

Get it now?

To be a member of Foundation, I hear many local racers pay so that their so called "elite riders" can race for free. If I were on Foundation, I would be embarrassed that team leader pulled something like this and would be quite angry with Inson.

You can buy a Venge or brag a Shiv but not respect....and for that matter "speed"

Let's say a team is second in the standings with one race to go. Why not throw 20 guys in the race, take the win, and let 10 guys get suspended one race?

the CRCA consistently enforces stuff by disqualifying the entire team. if a rider is suspended, for example, no team mate's results count towards season point totals. whatever you think doesn't matter, its standard procedure for CRCA regulations and not something that was arbitrarily decided for the Insondent.

Read: Team

If Adam doesn't want to be bothered with that then he can race alone. He will owe nothing to anyone.

You all need a lot of words to justify punishing one rider for the alleged wrongs of another. Point is that this is pretty unheard of in any real competition. Adam should have known that Inson came into the back of the pack before the race started? And should have known by the looks of him he didn't register? That's just bs.

why is it that so often, when we are asking about shenanigans like this, it involves one team only? there seems to be a culture a specific brand of entitlement that leads to this B.S.

Totally agree with the enforcement of the 10 rider limit. If there's an actual "team" (as opposed to a club), there's no way that the team needs or should ride w/ more than 10. If certain "teams" decide to have unlimited rosters with no cohesion, then they need to deal with the rider limit. It would be better for the club to have a greater number of smaller teams, so that riders really get to know each other, race as a team.

Foundation can decide its own future. However, if I were a strong 3/4 on Foundation, I'd really ask myself whether the "elite" squad was where I wanted to go in terms of development and/or have an association with. The Foundation "brand" is lacking...so why not take the infrastructure and all of the good work of many Foundation team leaders and create something new.

Also, this is not the 1st time Inson has been the subject of CRCA Board discussions. Last time was when he caused a major crash on Harlem Hill during the club champs. Not sure if he ever took up the offer/suggestion to get some coaching on his "pack skills."

I second that motion.

I disagree. A competitive "team" Foundation should have some sort of strategy or discussion going into a race...and given the large number of team members trying to participate in a 9 men slot, it is reasonable to assume they all knew who would show up to sign up.

Adam may not have known that Inson "cheated", but as a Cat 1/2 racer, I think it is also reasonable to assume that he will have noticed which teammate lined up, either at the start or during the race.

If he didn't survey the field at all...perhaps he needs to relearn his "team-101" again. Obviously, another teammate noticed about Inson's sneaky move.

Who is to say Inson didn't lend Adam a hand at any given moment during the race?

If Adam didn't notice or pay attention to his teammates representation, then why is he being a part of the team? If he doesn't care who showed up from his team, why even be on a team?

I feel bad for Adam being relegated, but he is part of the "team".

Inson, however, should get more than 1 race suspension. I agree with the previous post - if Paulie indeed got 6 race suspension for his offense, why would Inson just be let off with 1 race suspension?

it's a team sport, and sends the correct message and serves as a deterrent

So Adam Alexander wins the race by over three bike lengths, clearly dominates that sprint. It seems reasonable to assume that he did not know about the alleged infraction of his teammate and could not have done anything about it. How is it fair that is relegated? Punish the perpetrator, not the fair and square winner of the race.

Amgen rolled past my apt yesterday and it was awesome to see my favorite sprinter riding his final race.

his finest hour..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlc-s7eI5Cg

Inson's merely the victim of all this turk talk last week. He's not to blame, in fact, he's the first Turker. A real trailblazer and a worthy figurehead for a team.

He's red? What does that even mean?

http://www.foundationcyclingnewyork.org/foundationcyclingnewyork.org/Spl...

hard to argue, i guess.

Foundation is not to blame for the actions of one rouge member. Inson is not responsible either. Blame the crack he smokes before racing.

How are the results presented? Is this the finishing order? What are times? Where was the finish line, btw? Is there a God, and why?

Foundation is the Oakland Raiders of NYC cycling....

You can tell by reading today's posts as well as those over the course of time and realize that the perception the foundation team, if you were to think of it as a brand, is not great. The team brings up negative conotations as well as positive ones. I think they should look at how they'er positioned in the cycling community and revise some of their policies to reflect a more ethical team.

I have some great friends on that team and it doesn't help when other rider's faults reflect on the jersey my friends wear. I think someone needs to lay down the law in that group and stop all of the b/s. This is an amature cycling team, it shouldn't resemble an E! reality show.

You cheat? You got suspended?
Are you posting that along your wind-cheating Shiv on Facebook?
Is this part of your "dream"?

Erica Alderberg 4th Women

Laura Lee Vo 6th Women

Andrew McGee 2nd in the 40-45

Richard Scudney 6th overall

...and Nyvelocity's own Alex Ostroy 4th in the 45-50

Hey David Carr and the rest of the CRCA Board -- one race last year Paulie registered and paid his $10. he was an A but raced the B's. He got a 4 or 6 race suspension for that. How come Inson gets away with one race? they're both equally dangerous but Inson's infraction was worse. How'd he get off so easy?

Speaking of foundation, one of their guys turked his way to 6th at Wilmington GP

Thats a serious result

Not saying there aren't some very classy and respectable people on Foundation. However, if over the course of one year you have a guy suspended for doping, and two riders doing illegal things in training races, you gotta start to rethink your policies.

Very True Andrea.

Agreed. On Sunday, I passed a guy walking his bike up the hill to 9W before the service station and traffic light that then continues past Toga and up the hill to Rockland Lake. The guy was obviously struggling but looked really determined. I was going down the hill back to Nyack and thought, what the hell, give this guy some encouragement. I circled back and soft peddled next to him. I said he was looking good, and to just try and take the ride one hill at a time, dig deep etc. He got back on the bike and made it up at least the remainder of the hill and probably Rockland hill from the look of it. The guy seemed truly grateful and really stoked. I was happy for him even if he most likely did not complete the entire ride. Made me feel good too.

It should be noted that every year there's a Foundation "incident"

It should be noted that there is no way that Foundation itself played a role in what Inson did in the CRCA race on May 19. Rod Millott, who is a member of Foundation (actually plays a substantial role on the team) and ran the race, was the one who identified the issue, notified the CRCA board of what he believed probably happened (and why he believed it), and then let the rest of the board deliberate on what needed to be done. It was a difficult situation and could not have been an easy decision to execute when the decision was made (relegating the team in addition to suspending Inson). The guy has class.

DC

Sitting outside at 'The Spoon' on Sunday a Tri guy sits at the table next to me. He's wearing a swimming/riding suit, so I asked him if he'd been swimming. He laughed and said, 'no just riding today'. I replied, 'where are your shoes'?

This guy is such a triathlete that he took his shoes off leaving them clipped in for the transition into The Spoon. I was ahppy when he through on his TT helmet and transitioned back onto the streets of Nyack with his Cervelo.

I have more respect for the bonking Gran Fondo riders walking up 9w hills than for this Triathlete.

Why don't we all just stop bike racing? Why make the organizers rich?

Why is everyone's always complaining about problems with the CRCA or non CRCA races in the NYC parks. Always trying to solve a multitude of issues.

With so many racers in the city there should be more encouragment to carpool and travel to the better, more fun and exciting races in the surrounding locations.

All I ever read are the same comments about the same race on the same course about the same riders talking about the same promoters. How do you guys not get bored doing this? I haven't been racing in NYC since around the end of March and I'm happy to say I have almost none of these problems and way more fun. Yes, I have managed to race nearly every weekend without touching the city or Bethel CT. I've made a lot of great friends from all over the Northeast doing this without being up at 4:30am.

But I am enjoying the read, so keep on solving issues that will never change.

Whew..I just did the Fondo and it's time for some moves!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhmiR18iGVg

As long as we are fondu'ing, Erica Adelberg from Radical Media took 4th overall in the women, and 2nd in the 45-49.

noah tank that is a horrible idea, 5's and 4's are the fucking lifeblood of the CRCA and the cycling economy in NYC.

dont bite the hand that feeds you, or else you wont be getting free kit and a 5% discount at Sid's

you are missing the point, they cant ADD another field without taking one away. Its hard to have more than 4 fields in central park at a time.

I should have clarified. There should be a 123, a 3/4, a 5 and a womens field

3's who want to get shat on can do the A race
3's who want to brag on NY Velocity can do the 3/4 race

I wonder how big the other fields were.
I would hate to suggest 5 and women's field to be combined or 4 and 5s to be combined, but something needs to be reviewed.

For example, do we have to have a Cat 5 race at every race day? If the whole point of Cat 5s getting their 10 races is to get "experience", shouldn't they be trying to do variety of races? CRCA, PP, FBF, Bethel,Branchbrook and many other local and distant races?

I am all for supporting the cat 5 racers, too but given that they tend to be the newer members to the club, I don't think they need to be given the same number of races as the 1234w field...

In certain weekends, when there fields ate likely to fill up(no major races around), perhaps the club should do 1/2, 3, 4 and W's field, instead of giving a slot to the 5s.

I think that would onlt be 2-3 times a year?

Cat 3 only would be better than 3/4 - good for the guys without enough time to train to compete with the 1/2s and not as dangerous as a 3/4 race. Could also prompt Cat 4 sandbaggers to upgrade ...

I dont think its possible to add another field on the road at the same time. I would say a 3/4 field would be a better option

Cat 3 field would be a good idea

If the A race is consistently reaching max capacity - why not create a A-/B+ field that is Cat 3 only or 35+ Masters?

My sister in law is a super hot PT. We won the overall but I was 2nd on the bike to a triathlete, so I'm wearing a hairshirt in shame.

Congrats on winning your triathlon, Andy! Heard you had a hottie for a partner.

I'm pretty sure there was only one women in the A race and she's typically the only one. But if it was a larger number I'd agree with your point.

In this week's episode, the role of Cat. 5 Whipping Boy is instead played by a piece of...wood.

Inson's ability to become a bigger and bigger tool is the stuff of legends. He's the Moser of dickdom.

If the A race is reaching the 100 rider max, why is CRCA allowing women to race that field when they have their own race they can do? Unless CRCA plans on allowing men that get shut out of the A race to do the women's race perhaps some consideration should be given to not allowing women in the A race if it fills up. If the A race does not get to the 100 rider max then let them jump in the A race if they really feel the need to. Is this too logical for them to figure out, or they too concerned about being accused of discrimination?

Really Inson? I thought he obeys all the rules but wails like a banshee throughout the race. Guys got serious lungs to do that every lap.

I was in the fondo, I am fond of this ride, I found it challenging, after the ride I had a fondou.

How dumb/deperate do you have to be to jump into/jump back into a CENTRAL PARK RACE. And its not like they dont know how strict the rules are, THEIR TEAMMATE IS PRESIDENT!!

almost 32 hours to finish the gran fondo? didn't realize bear was that far

But will Foundation still pay for the win?

Wow I killed this thread. Are you all throwing up at the thought of me in a mankini?

I results bro'd, mankini and all.

Results fondo

http://resultsarchive.active.com/pages/searchform.jsp?posted_p=t&numPerP...

First first first... Oh crap, not first

chocolate or traditional?

who won la Grande Fondue?

Oversexed? We're cyclists...

he set a personal best on his transition time, getting into his mankini like a jack rabbit.

How did Andy do in his Triathlon?

Tony Fatuzzo is the bane of my Strava existence out here in NJ.

The rider in question was Inson himself. He was riding in the A field w/o a number. Unless they caught someone else from the team unregistered.

Well, what's worse, 6 guys not showing up or 6 guys getting turned away?

Schmalz didn't mention Tony Fatuzzo of Team Cosmic from Fair Lawn, NJ as taking 2nd in the Gran Fondo.

A good idea but I don't think it will work because there will be half a dozen guys who sign up, get their spot but not show up(overslept, over fed, over-sexed or bad weather). It would suck for guys to not be able to race though there are open spots?

And then there's is the issue of maximum riders per team. I think there are more than 10 sub teams and quite a few unattached members - is the club going to start controlling team representation also? say, 7 riders per team instead of 9? I hope not.

I think this past weekend was a rare one because of lack of other local races.

Can we get back to Foundation?

On a serious note (hopefully), should there be a way to sign up in advance for CRCA races, so that no one shows up and gets turned away? I really don't want to start getting up any earlier for club races. And I'd be damned if I start camping out like those Shakespeare in the Park people.

Get it together guys. You're embarrassing yourselves.

http://www.crca.net/2012/05/519-club-race-results

Foundation situation is covered here: http://www.crca.net/2012/05/519-club-race-results/

Results are listed here: http://tourdesyracuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Syracuse12Results.pdf

Great representation from the CRCA women with Suzanne Lucash (CycleLifeUSAGFCapital) winning the women's open, and Meghan Schloat (Asphalt Green) winning the Women's Cat 4 race, Meredith Uhl (Innervation Fitness) coming in 2nd, and Stephanie Kaplan (Asphalt Green) finishing 4th.

CRCA Junior Developent team (Sam Morkal-Williams) headed up there for 4th place finish in the Juniors 15-18 division.

Word is the 3-stage tour will be back next year, but a great race run by the director, and beautiful weather!

what up with foundation now?

That rider should be kicked off of Crca for a year, if he did it on his own. Inson, if you didn't know about it, then just kick him off the team. If other guys from the team knew about it then the whole team should be suspended for the season. What if something serious had happened during the race?

Inson strikes again

Again?Really? Another cheater?

"ass"ess
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