Charlie Issendorf Interview

A chat with Charlie

schmalz Most racers in the area now know you as a promoter, but those of us who are a little bit, ahem, more mature, know you as a former pack-shattering racer animal. How did you come to be a promoter?

Charlie Issendorf I was looking to find something that involved even more suffering than bike racing and the answer was easy – I would become a race promoter!  Seriously, in 2004 the Kissena Cycling Club contacted me and asked if I wanted to take over promoting the Prospect Park Series. The former promoter, Brian Grundstrom, was moving. I said yes thinking it was just a one year gig. A couple of months later, Craig Roberts (the former promoter of Long Island’s Tour de Parc) asked me if I wanted to take over that race and again I said yes. The following year Tony and Millie asked if I wanted to take over the Floyd Bennett Series and the next thing I know I was promoting almost 30 races year. 2009 marks my fifth year promoting races.

schmalz Did becoming a promoter end your racing career, or were you ready to take a break?

Charlie Issendorf I officially stopped racing in 1991 when I was 22. I know that may surprise some people who might have seen me race after that age but that was the last year I went away for a spring training camp and the last year I did an International stage race (the Tour of Greece).  I’ve always been pretty realistic with my abilities and I already knew at 22 that I did not have what it takes to be a pro and that was my dream. I’ve continued to race on and off since I was 22 taking some years off here and there.

schmalz Wait, you were killing everyone locally all those years and you were retired? I’m both impressed (at your strength) and depressed (at my own weakness). What were the international stage races like?

Charlie Issendorf It’s not like I wasn’t training those years but there’s “training” and there’s “TRAINING”. If you want to compete on a National level you to have put the hours in and that’s just to survive. Not to take anything away from the local race scene but let’s face it most of the races are under 2 hours so you don’t need mega miles to compete. Most riders have no idea how hard racing can be and I never even competed at the pro level!  

I remember in 1990 my team was invited to compete at the Tour of Texas the last year it was an international stage race.  The race was in April and we went to Arizona in February to prepare. We trained incredibly hard for about six weeks and that was just to survive the race. There were four 120 mile races in a row and sometimes it would be single file for hours. It was ridiculous. I had raced the Vuelta de Chile the year before and it was night and day compared to Texas. The competition was so much better in Texas – all the top US pro teams were there along with a bunch of national teams.  

Charlie at a 2009 Central Park Spring Series race.  First time competing since 2002.

I remember racing against Chris Boardman, who was with the UK National Team.  You just suffer so much and that’s just to finish with the field. You don’t even think about winning. Hell, you don’t even think about placing.  Surviving. That’s the name of the game. You feel like a rock star when you finish with the field. Mind you, the field might only have 50 guys left out of 200 starters. It’s a humbling experience to say the least. 

The “Philly Week” races were the same way. I raced Lancaster, Freehold and Thrift Drug as part of the Mengoni/U.S. National Team. I remember Freehold was 90 miles and we did it in a something like 2 hrs and 55 minutes. You just stare at the back wheel in front of you as if you were staring behind the back wheel of a motorcycle when you motorpace. You watch the body movement of the rider in front of you to see if you see signs that he’s going to crack.  When he does you have to dig even deeper to close the gap he just left. If you’re lucky he’ll hand-sling you to close the hole. It’s brutal. That’s why I was shocked when I saw some local NYC teams were heading to Redlands without any preparation. 

schmalz Why was that shocking to you?

Charlie Issendorf Look at the competition: OUCH, Garmin, Rock Racing, BMC, Team Type 1, Jelly Belly. So let’s think about this for a second – these guys normally kick your ass even when you are in amazing shape, right? Now you are racing against these guys and they’re coming off of races like Tour of Mexico and Tour de Langkawi. They’re having training camps in So Cal getting ready for Redlands.  Already amazing riders now have “super” form. How can you possibly compete with better-than-you-riders on “super form” coming off of 30 mile Park races and indoor training workouts. It’s not a fair fight. You can’t make your first race of the year (Park races don’t count) the Redlands Bicycle Classic. There are so many great races during the year – Nature Valley, Fitchburg, Altoona, Elk Grove. These races all start in June. At least if you’re a local racer by June you have some good races under your belt – maybe Palmer, Jiminy Peak, Bear Mountain. By the time Fitchburg rolls around you’re in good shape and the playing field is a bit more level. Our local Cat 1’s like Lisbon have proven that when in shape they can at least be competitive with the pro teams. The key words are “in good shape”. If you’re not in top shape and you try to race with these guys you’ll get shelled on stage 1… and that’s exactly what happened to most of the local riders at Redlands. It’s not that these riders are not good, because they are. Like I said, it’s not a fair fight.  If I can give some friendly advice – stay East, save your money and make Nature Valley, Fitchburg, and races like that your top priority.

schmalz Well, there’s lots of issues there. Plenty of teams and racers go to races where they don’t stand a chance. Maybe they go to these races to gain form? Should teams avoid races where they might potentially get shelled? How will the racers improve if they don’t do big races? Maybe it was important for their sponsors that they go to these races…

Charlie Issendorf You should never avoid hard races but you have to be realistic.  You should not use a race like Redlands to gain form.  It goes back to the point I keep making – it’s not a fair fight.  Riders from the Northeast can’t possibly compete with pro riders who are specifically preparing for a race like Redlands.  What’s the sense in flying out to Redlands just to DNF in stage 1?  What fitness are you really gaining?  You improve by entering races you can at least be somewhat competitive in.  I can guarantee no local NYC Cat 1 will win the overall at Fitchburg, Nature Valley or Altoona.  But they can get good results at these races in individual stages and even in the overall.  Lisbon Quintero has scored good results at Fitchburg.  Eugene Boronow was 8th overall at Fitchburg one year.  Amaury Perez won the final stage two years ago.  When our local Cat 1’s are in shape they can mix it up with the pro riders and be competitive.  But these are all summer races – it takes Northeast riders longer to come in to form because our winters are so bad.  It was like 20 degrees and snowing just a couple of weeks ago.  How can you possibly do the necessary training in conditions like this?  If these races are important to your sponsors then you either have to educate your sponsors on cycling or you have to be honest with them about your team’s abilities.  If your sponsor says “You have to do Redlands” you should respond by saying “I totally understand why you want us to race Redlands  – it’s one of the top races in the U.S.  To be competitive in Redlands we need to train in warmer weather and I’m afraid we don’t have the budget for it.  It would be better if we use our resources for events later on in the season when we our riders are in top shape”.  What’s worse – telling your sponsor this or telling your sponsor almost none of your riders finished the race?  Please understand I’m not trying to criticize any team.  I’m just offering advice for the future.  There are great NRC races all summer long.  Go to the NRC Nature Valley GP in June, the NRC Cascade Cycling Classic in July or the NRC Tour of Elk Grove in August.  All great races you can do when your riders are in top shape.

schmalz Those are valid points, but I see both sides. If your goal is to build a national caliber team and attract national level talent, you might have to do the entire NRC calendar to put your face out there and show that you can get invitations to the big races. But we’re starting to sound like a pair of NRC schedule nerds here, maybe you can tell us about how you came into cycling?

Charlie Issendorf My father raced when he was younger and I remember him taking me to watch races at the Kissena Velodrome and the Tour of Sommerville.  I guess I was 6 or 7 at the time.  I started racing when I was 8 in 1978.  The category name was called “midgets”…not exactly the most PC name.

Charlie receiving a trophy from long-time race promoter Vito Perucci for winning the 1979 overall "midget" championship at the Westbury Training Series.

schmalz It’s funny to think that there probably isn’t even a category for the “midgets” these days. How many kids were in your fields when you raced midgets?

Charlie Issendorf Most races had around 20-25 riders but the bigger races had a lot more.  In 1981, when I was a last year midget, we had 45 riders at the Tour of Somerville.  It was a different time for sure.  Now it’s so rare to see a rider under the age of 12.  Let’s put it this way, every race back then had races for midgets (8-11), intermediates (12-14) and juniors (15-17).  For a promoter it was just normal to put races on for young riders.  It’s so different now.  As a promoter, I would not hold a junior race because I know, at best, I would have 3 to 5 riders show up.  It’s just not worth it.  But it’s a catch 22 – a promoter won’t hold a junior race because there are not enough juniors but how can junior racing grow if there are no races for them.

schmalz What kind of equipment did you use – especially when you were racing at age 10? Were you all on tiny little bikes?

Charlie Issendorf Yep – they were mini road bikes.  My first bike was a Gitane  That bike had 20″ wheels and 3 speeds.  It had one chainring in the front (like a 40) and a 3 cogs in the back (like 15,16,17).  I used that bike my first year because I was so small and couldn’t fit on the standard size midget bike which had 24″ wheels.  When I raced midgets I had a Paris-Sport track bike and a Whitcomb road bike.  I used the money I received from my first communion to buy the track bike…a whopping $165 for the complete bike, brand new.  It was hard to find small-size parts back in the 70’s so you really hard to search around.  3T made a really narrow handlebar, 34cm, and I used TA 155 and 160mm cranks.  Hard plastic Cinelli saddles were the saddle of choice back then.  Ambrosio and Fiamme made 24″ rims and Vittoria and D’Allesandro made 24″ tubulars and still do – 24″ bikes are still super popular in Europe.  Clothing was the tough part.  Nobody made cycling clothing for children back then.  Everybody raced in wool jerseys so to make a kid’s jersey you had to wash a men’s size small jersey in hot water and shrink it down to fit a child.  My mom made my first cycling shorts.  Kucharick made small leather hairnets so that took care of your helmet and Detto Pietro made small cycling shoes…with nailed-on cleats.  I can’t believe I remember all this!

schmalz That is so damn adorable I can almost not stand it! What was your dad like as a racer?

Charlie Issendorf My dad raced in the 1950s with the German Bicycle Sport Club.  There were no categories back then like Cat 2 or 3 – it was just like CRCA club races with A, B and C fields.  My dad raced in the B field.  He was a good track rider and won a lot of madisons when they raced at the old Flushing polo grounds track in Queens.

schmalz I had no idea that your dad ever raced. You two have had a long collaboration in the cycling world, are you usually in agreement on team decisions?

Charlie Issendorf  Usually. My dad has been managing GS Mengoni since 1991 so he must be doing something right – not too many teams have been around for 18 years.  He has final decision on all Mengoni team matters but he will ask me what I think of a particular rider he might be considering for the team.  I really only managed one team, CRCA/Breakaway Courier, for a couple of years.  I enjoyed it mostly because I liked working with elite riders.  We won a ton of races with Kevin Monahan (who later went on to become a two-time U.S. Pro Criterium Champion) and Adam Myerson including the Tour of Somerville and the North Atlantic Cup.  Managing teams is hard work.

schmalz Did your dad “discover” George HIncapie? I use quotes there because, from what everyone in New York has ever told me about George – he probably didn’t need a lot of discovering – when you have a teenage kid killing everyone in races, you kind of discover yourself.

Charlie Issendorf No, my dad did not discover George.  George’s brother Rich and I met when we were last year “midgets” (12 years old).  We quickly became best friends and my dad would take us to most of the races.  George was a few years younger than us and started racing a few years later.  In 1986, when Rich and I were about 16, my dad approached Sal and Louis Corso at Stuyvesant Bicycle about sponsoring a junior team.  Corso Distributors (Sal and Louis) were the exclusive U.S. importers of Atala Bicycles and they gave us road bikes and a ton of clothing.  USCF rules were changing around that time and clubs were allowed to have sub-teams.  We were racing for Kissena and Al Toefield (Kissena President) gave us the ok to have a sub-team and the KCC-Atala Junior Team was born.  I guess it was the first sub-team in NYC.  George was 12 then and was starting to take racing seriously and he was also part of the team so it was the three of us.  We all knew George was a different level even at the age 12.

schmalz It’s funny how some of us (or just mostly me) try to dupe ourselves into thinking that if we just work hard enough, we could do what the pros do, but the sad fact is that you have to have the natural ability, or you just won’t make it as a pro. I don’t know if I really have a question there, I’m just sort of trying to depress myself…

Charlie Issendorf You’re right – to make it as top pro you probably do have it possess a certain amount of natural ability.  However, we ALL posses two important qualities that can make us better bike racers – discipline and motivation.  Here’s a story I would like to share.  I was a hot-shot midget racer winning lots of races but when I turned 12 I graduated to the Intermediate category (12-14 years).  I was a small 12 year old and I got my ass kicked for the next two years.  Yes – TWO YEARS.  I was dropped in almost every race I entered.  It was so depressing to enter a criterium, get dropped, lapped and eventually pulled by the officials.  There’s a big difference between a 12 and a 14 year old and the bottom line was I just not able to compete with them.  My dad kept telling it would not be like this forever and my body would change.  It was hard to believe him.  When I was a last year intermediate I finally had a good ride when I scored third place at the Empire State Games qualifying race and went to the games. It was a disaster.  The Empire Games had a scholastic division that included 17 year olds – even worse for me!  I was dead last in the road race and time trial.  But my dad was right – thin

gs started changing for me when I was 16.  For Christmas, my dad bought me the Eddy B. training book and I read it cover to cover.  I made my own training schedules and really became focused.  As a last year junior, I won the NY State TT Championship with a 20km time of 28:16 (3 minutes faster than the year before), I was second at the Junior National Pursuit Championships (2 seconds behind Erin Hartwell), and I won the Junior World Championship Qualifying Race at Bear Mountain.  I went from being an awful time trialist to a TT specialist.  I went from getting dropped on small rollers to winning Bear Mountain.  How?  Two words: motivation and discipline.  Obviously, I possessed zero natural ability.  My results came from hard work, sacrifice and never giving up.  I can guarantee EVERY cyclist reading this can improve.  How much?  That’s up to each person. 

schmalz What do you think the chances are for say, a 40 year old sprint-free, week-willed breakaway artist at FBF in the 3/4 field this year? And how much would it cost to get a good percentage of the sprinters DQ’d for a few races? Just a ballpark figure…

Charlie Issendorf Dan – you’re a perfect example of somebody that never gives up.  It was awesome for you to grab the FBF yellow jersey last year after all the years you’ve been racing.  FBF is what it is…when it’s windy it’s a death march, when it’s calm it’s a cake walk.  For your sake, let’s hope it’s windy.

Charlie winning the 1992 Oyster Bay Cycling Classic

schmalz Ah, you’re too kind. Now I just have to figure out how to bribe the wind to blow on Tuesdays. I’m just going to get this question out of the way – what’s your favorite George Hincapie anecdote?

Charlie Issendorf So we’re at the 1990 GS Mengoni Grand Prix. George and I are racing the Pro/1-2 race even though George is a last year junior (17 years old). I’m 21 and racing for Bottecchia, George is racing for the U.S. National Team.  We both make the winning breakaway of about 7 riders. Peter Illovsky (Toga) was in the break and he was a great rider. Cezary Zamana was in the break too. He had arrived that year from Poland and was another great rider. He later turned pro for Motorola. Going into the final lap we had well over a minute on the field and we were all confident we would stay away. That’s when the attacks started. Peter would attack, we would all chase and then everybody would sit up and we’d roll around at a snail’s pace. Then somebody else would attack and the same thing would happen. When we got to Tavern I saw my dad riding towards us on my spare bike.  When we passed him he screamed “What the hell are you doing?!?! Look behind you!!” I turned around and the field was breathing down our neck, maybe less than 10 seconds behind. I screamed “GEORGE!!” He turned around and saw the same thing. He went right to the front and start pulling. We all jumped on his wheel. He pulled. And pulled. And pulled some more. He never swung off the front.  We were all hanging on his wheel for dear life. He pulled from Tavern until the finish, sprinted up the hill and nobody came around him. He won and I ended up 7th. The field actually caught us right before the finish and some of the riders passed me right before the line. After the race, a guy came up to me and said Mr. Mengoni would like to speak with you. I met Fred and he said he wanted George and I to ride for him next year. He had stopped the Mengoni team in 1987 and wanted to bring the team back. He was following our break in his big Mercedes and said he liked how George and I were racing. And that’s how the GS Mengoni team that my dad manages now began.

schmalz Mr Mengoni is such a prominent figure in New York (and even international) cycling, how would you describe him to someone who’s never met him before?

Charlie Issendorf Fred is quiet and doesn’t really like much attention.  He has a great ability to read people which is why he was always successful at spotting up-and-coming riders like Leonard “Harvey” Nitz, Steve Bauer, Mike McCarthy and George.  All rode for GS Mengoni at one time.  And of course he was instrumental early on in Greg Lemond’s career.  I guess he uses the same ability in business which is why he was so successful.  He’s a true patron of the sport, a “tifosi” to the bone.

schmalz What do you think the secret to finding talent is? It is pretty evident or do you need to have special insight?

Charlie Issendorf There’s no secret.  It boils down to one word – results. The bottom line is the finish line. I’m old school – I don’t care how much training you do, what watts you put out or how good you look on the bike - if you’re not winning or placing you’re not going to turn heads.  Eddy B. would use the expression “diamonds in the rough” when describing how he would look for talented riders.  First, they have to be good riders and then you can mold and shape them into great riders.   Being a promoter, I get to watch all categories race and I look carefully at the Cat 5’s.  When I see guys winning Cat 5 races with ease I keep an eye on them to see if it’s a fluke or if they are consistently winning.  Last year I noticed three Cat 5 riders who I believe have some real talent and we should keep an eye on – Neil Bezdek (incredibly just a Cat 2 in his second season and he’s won a few races already), James Buttler (looks very pro) and Brian Breech (already a Cat 3 – I was in a break with Brian this year and he was looking for very strong). 

schmalz As a team manager how do you balance the desire for results and rider morale? Because we’ve seen situations where a rider might feel too much pressure (whether real team pressure or perceived team pressure) for results, and they can be tempted to dope in order to keep their job.

Charlie Issendorf At the level we compete at any manager who puts pressure on their riders to get results should have their head examined.  Any pressure to get results should be reserved for the Pro level where big bucks are on the line.  Don’t get me wrong – it’s important to have goals and to work towards them but I know I have never put pressure on riders and I know my dad has not either.  The closest thing to pressure for the Mengoni team is having a good race at the GS Mengoni Grand Prix because it’s the only race Fred comes out to watch the team and we don’t want to disappoint him.  Riders put enough pressure on themselves without a manager screaming at them.  Are some tempted to dope?  As we have seen in the last few years some local riders are.  It’s disgusting.  Doping to win any race is sad.  Doping to win local races is pathetic.  I raced with a few of those local riders who tested positive and it made me sick to think I was beaten by somebody who cheated.

schmalz How did you feel about Jared Bunde testing positive while racing for Mengoni?

Charlie Issendorf Mixed feelings.  It’s tough for me to talk about it because it hit so close to home.  I remember when my dad told me.  He said he just got of the phone with Jared and he said he had no idea what he was taking was illegal.  He said he was taking a bunch of over the counter herbs and stuff like that.  Is he telling the truth?  Honestly, I don’t know.  I think it’s tough for amateurs who are taking supplements to know if every ingredient is on the banned substance list.  I remember taking E-Caps for two seasons and honestly I never looked at the ingredients.  Suppose there was something in it that was illegal.  I could have tested positive with no intention of doping.  If you get busted for Amphetamines or EPO it’s pretty cut and dry – you were a doper.  But it gets murky when you test positive for an obscure ingredient in a supplement. 

schmalz It’s become a tough call, because you want to believe guys you know, but on the other hand; they could’ve be lying to your face the whole time. That’s the situation teams have been put in. Was there fallout from Jared testing positive?

Charlie Issendorf There was no real fallout.  My dad told Fred and Fred’s a realist.  It’s not like there was a systematic doping program in my dad’s basement. It was one rider in then 17 years my dad was managing the team. All the Mengoni sponsors stayed on board. 

schmalz Do you think the doping tests for amateur racers are adequate? 

Charlie (right) on the podium in third place at the 2002 NYC Championship Race on Wall Street.  The winner was Joe Papp who later admitted to systematic doping throughout his career

Charlie Issendorf I can’t really comment on the adequacy of the tests but I’m sure they are up to par. The problem is the frequency of the tests. I was tested once during my entire career in 1987 when I was a last year junior. That’s it. I was never tested as a Senior. I could have doped in every single race I entered and never been caught. The trick is avoid races where you know there is testing like Nationals of maybe some NRC races.  So you sacrifice the stars-and-stripes jersey (and no money for the win) to get paid every weekend in local races. That’s what a certain local doper did for years. Don’t ask for a name Dan – I’m not telling. He was eventually caught so I’m sure your readers can figure it out.

schmalz Just one test? I get the feeling that racers want to be tested, so they have a reason to NOT dope (and so that dopers who profit get caught also), but it’s probably not a financial reality for promoters of smaller races, as they are just hoping to break even or not lose too much money – paying for doping controls might bankrupt most of them. The notion that a local racer (with or without team knowledge) could dope and get paid (however little it might have been) is a little depressing.

Charlie Issendorf You’re right on both points – doping controls are expensive and it’s sad to think your fellow racers might be doping and there’s nothing anybody can do about it.

schmalz Why do you think there’s a code of silence with racers? If a competitor took a cut off on the course or went in the joggers lane (a stalwart NYC park racing rule), there would be howling protests after the race; but the doping stuff seems to get a pass. I guess what I’m asking is: is there a way to address local amateur doping? 

Charlie Issendorf I’m not sure if it’s a code of silence or if has to do with the fact nobody is really ever 100% sure.  If you see a rider attack in the jogger’s lane it’s in full view and there’s no hiding.  How often do you see a rider whip out a needle in the parking lot before a race in full view.  Is there any way to address local doping?  In my opinion there is answer is no.  Until somebody makes a doping test that’s as easy to use as let’s say a home pregnancy test there is no way to police it.  It would be great if immediately after one of my Prospect Park races I could ask the winner to pee in a cup, place a stick in it and within minutes get a positive/negative result but it’s not happening.  Now that I think about it that would an incredible invention.  A company that invented something like that would make billions!  Think of all the sporting events around the world that would use it.  Come on Dan, you and me, let’s do it!  Get out your chemistry set!

There’s also the flip side of doping that hurts innocent riders with accusations of doping when they start having good results.  2002 was the last year I raced seriously.  After so many years of racing, it was difficult to get motivated for every race.  There were about 5 or so races that year that I wanted to do good in.  The rest of the races I would literally stay in almost last place and use for training.  Lots of riders would see me in last place in Prospect Park or Floyd Bennett, never attacking or making a move, just riding in last.  It was an important part of my training – it was the equivalent of 1-2 hours of motorpacing.  When a race I wanted to do well in would roll around I would really race it and I had some good top 10’s.  That year one of my teammates told me he heard rumors that I was doping.  I was shocked – why would somebody say that?  He said people were saying “Isn’t it strange that Charlie gets last in so many races and then all of a sudden on the day of a big race he gets a top 10”.  My point is that sometimes riders are just racing well.  The tell-tale sign is how well they are racing.  Notice I said I was getting some good top 10’s.  I didn’t say I was soloing off the front and winning races by minutes.  When you see riders who have never won races like that start riding THAT good it becomes suspicious.

schmalz Two things: firstly, I’m sorry about spreading all those rumors, but in my defense, I was saying you had a heart transplant from a horse; and secondly, I would create the doping test, but I can’t even mix a decent Harvey Wallbanger, so advanced chemistry is a little our of my range scientifically. Like you said, there’s something profoundly pathetic about doping at a category racing level.  When an individual needs the ego boost of a win in a cat 3 race so badly that they are willing to resort to doping, I would suggest that they are, in psychological terms, acutely bonkers. I suppose we’re not going to come up with an easy solution to amateur doping here, but I will contend that we did try very hard.

How are you feeling after crash? I’m assuming it was an act of retaliation for not granting someone their 15th place in a Prospect race…

Charlie racing at Floyd Bennet Field before the crash that sent him to the hospital

Charlie Issendorf I’m feeling better every day.  The collarbone and ribs are mending nicely and after collapsing a total of three times I finally think my lung is healed.  The funny thing is from what I remember it really didn’t seem like that bad of a crash.  Two riders crashed in front of me and I had no where to go.  When I hit the deck my body shattered like a piece of glass!  I guess I’m getting old.  Without a doubt it was the worst crash I ever had.  So much for doing a few races for “fun”.  Now you got me scared Dan – I never thought I might have to watch my back for disgruntled racers.

schmalz I don’t think anyone holds a grudge against you. I think most people hold your races in very high esteem. What’s you philosophy about promoting races? Do you have one?

Charlie Issendorf Some of my philosophies: keep it simple; keep it safe; keep it fun; keep it organized.  Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.  Make improvements that I would have liked to seen if I was still racing.  Preserve and improve the races we already have before trying to start new ones.  Always look for ways to make the races better.

schmalz One last question-it seems at Champion Systems that you give away race leader’s jerseys like a drunken Shriner tossing out hard candy at a July Fourth parade. How do you not go out of business?

Charlie Issendorf When I began working at Champion System I told the owners I could guarantee that I could have the best riders wearing Champion System jerseys.  They asked how and I replied “it’s simple – we supply leader jerseys to the best stage races and the leaders have to wear our jerseys”.  Four years later and we now supply leader jerseys to the Tour de Langkawi, Tour de Beauce, Cascade Cycling Classic, Tour of the Gila, Mt. Hood Cycling Classic, the Ras in Ireland and many more national and international races. I didn’t want to just supply leader jerseys to the top races but I wanted to support local races as well.  Here’s yet another story: In 1988 I was a first year senior (18 years old) and I was racing in the Pro/1-2 Enchanted Mountain Stage Race, a 3 day stage race consisting of a Road Race, Time Trial and Criterium.  I won the Stage 2 10 mile Time Trial and grabbed the leader jersey.  I was stoked.  In the final criterium I lost the jersey due to time bonuses.  I was feeling down to say the least.  I remember sitting in the front seat of my dad’s car when I saw the promoter walking towards me.  He approached and said he needed the leader jersey back because they only had one.  Not only did I lose the race but I didn’t even get to bring home a jersey!  Dan, how would you have felt if I asked for your Floyd Bennett leader jersey back?  Exactly.  So supplying leader jerseys to local races became both a marketing and personal objective of mine.  So many local teams use Champion System so supplying leader jerseys to the races they compete in is our way of saying thanks for being loyal customers.  The Green Mountain Stage Race, Tour of the Catskills, Giro di Jersey, Cadence Cup Series  – for local riders these are our Tour de France so why not make the riders feel like Pro riders with leader jerseys. I don’t see too many other companies supporting local races as much as Champion System.

Charlie awarding the 2008 Cadence Cup Series trophy to the Cat 4 winner

schmalz Dear God, is there any cycling related incident that you don’t have an anecdote for? Let’s test this-have you ever arrived at a race only to realize that you’d forgotten your cleats?

Charlie Issendorf Would you believe in all the years I’ve been racing I never forgot my shoes, helmet or license.  Remember one of my philosophies: keep it organized.

113 Comments

Wheelsucker

Great to see that Charlie is mending well and had the energy to answer the Schmalz flurry of questions.

Hope to see both at Floyd over the next few Tuesdays.

Puny O’M

Wheelsucker

Charlie make NYC cycling much better as a rider and now as a promoter, its just hard to imagine it without him at this point. Glad he is doing better.

Jon Lowenstein

Charlie,

I hope you’re better soon and racing again. Getting to race with you will make it worth driving to NYC from RI.

Be well,

Jon Lowenstein

Wheelsucker

Im reading this, thinking about how old this guy is, telling all these stories about George H as a kid etc – so quaint since they were from way back in the 80s. Then I do the math and realize Im about the same age as Charlie! Oops. He just seems older since he’s been racing since like 8 and me since 34. Oh well. Wish I had the endurance legs of 30 years instead of 5.

Nice going Charlie – and good luck with the remaining healing. Thanks for all the local races!

Wheelsucker

Great interview.
Charlie is class and told some great stories.
This interview is just another awesome read.

Thanks guys!

Wheelsucker

Great perspective, great promoter of the sport!
I remember being in awe of Charlie as a junior for his TT skills and the fact that those guys were such a “team”, & Mr. I always seemed kinda scary with the cigar (he’s not…I think??).
It’s great to see someone give back so much to the sport!
Feel Better!
-Haig

Wheelsucker

Fuck you Charlie…
Over the counter herbs and stuff is not going to result in a positive doping test. You are an enabler and part of the problem. By the way I will do all of your races, as they are well run etc…but the truth about doping is the truth. It doesn’t affect me!

Wheelsucker

you’re out of line, 11:14. charlie is hardly an enabler. but i agree that no one’s going to test positive for anti-estrogen drugs because he was taking the wrong herbal supplement. that excuse doesn’t fly, no matter how much i’d like to believe bunde.

jkornbluh

That statement was really uncalled for. You should introduce yourself to him the next time you see him and repeat that remark, perhaps at a race he worked very hard to put together, for you to enjoy.

Wheelsucker

Awesome interview Charlie and Dan
hmm, wondering who the local rider is who got caught for abusing prescription medications. I can think of Univest winner coming from local ranks, well two actually… No wait, there another local guy who used to supply medication and was even called to testify on effects of testosterone patches in Landis trial… wow, there is a lot of local guys involved…
Keep the races safe and speedy recovery Charlie!!!!

Wheelsucker

Please Go to Mexico and BREATHE IN HARD AND OFTEN, matter of fact kiss everyone you see…

Nice work Dan, amazing story and I knew NOTHING of either Charlie or Mengoni – Ny racing, now a bit more about the total NYC scene.. Very Nice, Thanks this was a very enjoyable read.

another fake doc

Wheelsucker

Charlie, at 22 you realized you didnt have it to become a pro, thats pretty bold and damn effin hardcore. not too many people have the clarity to realize that. you are my hero!

Wheelsucker

that 11:14 post should be deleted. it’s way out of line, even more so since the poster, who didn’t sign their name, spits on charlie yet still enjoys racing in his events. totally uncalled for.

Wheelsucker

even better, disable the ability to comment on interviews. seriously. let the readers make their own conclusions…and privately, to themselves. i want to read the interviews, not the comments. and i bet that’ll go a long way keep the doors open to actually get people to speak to you.

Wheelsucker

Don’t blame Charles for Bunde’s doping. It wasn’t his fault. He helps this sport. But you are right, no way Bunde didn’t know what was going on.

I loved Charlie’s view on the guys racing redlands. Totally agree. I thought it was great when they put up a pic of themselves standing all tough the day before they got blown out in the first stage of redlands. And then tried to act like it would make NYC riding stronger. The only way it could help NYC racing is to open those guys eyes to reality.

Totally respect that Charlie would stand up and say what his thinks and leave the comments on. He knows full well that some people will disagree. He is just man enough to take the criticism with the praise. It shows he is mature.

Wilson Vasquez

I cant belive someone would say that. The idot clearly doesn’t know Charlie to call him an “enabler”. Charlie is great friend of mine and I take great offense to that comment. That comment should be deleted. A coward who won’t even post his name.

Wheelsucker

really glad other people will read this and get to know a nyc cycling icon

looking up to pros is goofy … right here in our own backyard is a guy making a huge difference in the local scene. it is really gratifying to see someone do their job really, really well – with passion and integrity – whether cycling-related or not. now is a very good time to be racing in nyc, and charlie i’s a big part of that

thanks again charlie and heal up well

Tony Settel

Glad to hear you are doing better!
Anyone who talked to Charlie after the NYC race in 2002 would have heard him tell how he trained on the course repeatedly after work memorizing where all the obstacles were on the course. It was a hairy course and that would help a lot. He attacked on the straight where you had to weave between man holes and broken pavement so that knowledge helped a lot. He came flying by me when he attacked to make the break and it was impressive – sort of like, “I’d like to go with that…oh(gasping),never mind” No wonder he did well. Preparation. Maybe not strong enough to be pro but certainly to be a successful Cat 1 with serious regional results. A class act and smart. He wrote some great articles on tactics, too. Especially the one on when/how to attack.

Wheelsucker

It really has nothing to do with Charlie, at least as far as I can tell, but Im still a bit surprised with the muted reaction that came from Mengoni after Bunde was suspended – that weak press release that basically just stated what happened under the rules. It was like they wouldnt even acknowledge that it really happened, giving real credence to the excuses, and yes, perhaps not standing up clearly enough against doping. Hence, something of an enabling attitude. Still, it wasnt Charlie’s call anyway. I do wish they would have done more, but its there own reputation at risk, so whatever. I dont ride for them, so no skin off mine. But, they relinquish any call on local amateur leadership with that attitude.

Wheelsucker

Keep in mind division 3 was really not around when charlie was 22. the age requirement for d 3 has really changed things. some say for the worse, many regional players can get pro deals just on age alone and with not such great results.

Wheelsucker

What did you expect? Mengoni is an awesome team, but a small team that is very dependent on its sponsor. I dont think anyone would want to call attention to some jack ass that doped and hurt their chances of renewing their sponsor.

Wheelsucker

I moved away from NY about a dozen years ago and forgot about Charlie…
I remember getting wrapped up in his Colnago and Specialized tri-spokes in the last corner at the Tour of Somerville in 1994.

Wheelsucker

Nice interview and a good read. Fairly new to road racing and only know Charlie as the guy who runs some great local races.

Wheelsucker

Is great. I remember Coors light coming one year with Grewal (maybe?? memory is sucking these days with the Bear 420 loading program that was discussed yesterday)- That was a great race.

Wheelsucker

Yeah, I dont think the sponsor missed the episode. I would think it would HELP with the sponsor to take a stronger stand, not sit back and hold hands over ears.

Jay Mueller

Charlie and Dan,

Thanks for the classy interview touching on all of the points we would all find of interest. As I come out of my cycling/health hole, seeing your shiny, sweet faces is a nice motivator to reengage in the world of competitive cycling.

Cheers,

Jay

J. Bunde

Charlie, great interview.

To chime in here on a situation that is obviously very close to home and personal… I have received nothing but support from Mr. I, and the Mengoni team. I feel this is on a personal level, and has little to do with the manner in which I have “tarnished” this sport. The Issendorf’s are supportive of the sport, and able to put cycling in perspective within the larger context of life.

Testing positive has been one of the most difficult obstacles that I have dealt with in my life, and it is something that I will deal with for many years to come.

The moment a positive test is announced, the public makes a lasting judgment concerning a racer. Once this judgment is made there is little that a person is able to do to change the public opinion.

Would it be more satisfying if I had made a statement to the effect of: Having a female chimera that died at birth. Drinking a bunch of whiskey which raised my testosterone. Having a wild affair with a menopausal women in Wisconsin, the substance must have entered my body during our time together… None of this would change public opinion.

Without a doubt the substance was in my urine. I accept this, and accept the penalty handed down to me. Part of the stipulation of a positive drug test is enrollment in the out of competition testing program. Which means that I am more likely to be drug tested than any cyclist that is currently competing in the NYC region.

To continue to drag it through the mud does no good for the future of the sport or moral of the local racing scene. USA Cycling does not do any testing themselves, USADA is contracted to do the testing for them.

USADA is available to do contract testing at events, and with enough prodding would likely show up at regional races. Rather than posting anonymous and inflammatory comments on the internet, please work toward increasing the presence of USADA at local events.

I truly believe the increased testing and education are two necessary avenues toward diminishing the problem of doping.

Wheelsucker

Charlie and his Trispokes and Scott Rakes

The S/F in PP used to be in front of the “temple” 400M after the left turn/bottleneck/descent…Charlie could ride quiet all day, surfing the back, then last lap move up, lead out with the Rakes and still win a full field sprint. I think Charlie could have been even better, but was stuck in old school training and races that didnt really suit his physiology. Look how he got results at OysterBay, a $10krace! and NYC Wall Street Crit, riding clean against cheating/boosted Papp!?!?!!! Retire at 22? Thats just when you are getting good? Maybe after racing 14 years tothat point and struggling through a rough adjustment all those middle junior years, we would have seen more!

Our local races are the better for it, that Charlie has done good for NYC racing!

(How about an interview with Greg Avon?)

Anonymous

Jared’s right. He didn’t make much of a fuss when he was caught, unlike 99% of the cycling population. He took the suspension, and is dealing with it. Everyone else should as well. Most of you guys never raced against him anyways, so why do you even care?

If you’re angry about drugs, call usada, maybe they would actually show up someday. highly doubtful, but you can always hope.

Wheelsucker

Dont know you and you always seemed like a solid guy on and off the bike. However, I think many of us would like your side of the story… Did you take the substance intentionally? If not, what supplements were you on that could have led to this positive. Not much of an explanation or appology. I guess silence is better than a denial…

to Bunde

maybe some people have forgotten the results Jared was getting around the time of his bust? winning track nats and winning park and floyd races by numerous bike lengths…a coincidence that he got nabbed riding at a level which was higher than everybody else at that time? My guess is that the powermeter made him do it. Most of us have one. Most of know the kind of #’s pros put out. The powermeter is the perfect tool for “trial and error” with dope. Take something, ride, download data, and analyze….repeat until you find what works best for you.

Wheelsucker

Thats just it. No detail at all from Jared on what he was in fact taking. None. Silence is better than a false denial (duh!), but it misses the point that the best option of all is to admit what you did, provide detail on what it was, and then “public opinion” can judge from a basis of at least something. As far as I am concerned, the silence is confirmation of drug/supplement use because there would be no reason to stay quiet if there were an excuse with any plausibility.

Jared’s calls for more and better testing, like the same calls from the pros, just amounts to moaning that the playing field isnt level, which implies some sort of pressure to dope in the first place. It means nothing at all in terms of his case itself.

As for commenter below, “not making much of a fuss” and “just taking the suspension” sounds exactly like a line from a mob movie to a made guy going to jail without ratting out the bunch. I guess your ethics are right in line with those self-serving mafioso. Pathetic lack of ethical standards, or self awareness of your own weak character.

Wheelsucker

eh, whatever. i welcome jared back to the scene. he seems excited to race again. just stay away from those wisconsin bitches, ya heard?

Wheelsucker

Thank you for making yourself present and commenting. It is/was brave to face your accusers. Especially when you owe the public nothing.

But your response was not an admission of taking something or not taking something- You glossed over it.

Your case is similar to Scott Moninger who had a positive a few years back because of a supplement- the difference though was that Scott came forward and openly discussed what happened leaving less to the imagination. I think people are quick to pull the trigger with you because you never came out and explained your side of the story.

Wheelsucker

“testing positive” and “the substance was in my urine”

No admission, but perfecting the art of talking about being caught and being such an upstanding man (“I accept this…”) without actually mentioning that he took something to get the shit in his urine in the first place, as if the whole thing was a fluke. Sounds just like those wanker Euro (and American) pros, with the “I made a mistake” crap as though they slipped by mistake and fell into a vat of Epo.

It all amounts to nothing, and Jared, you aren’t deserving of respect until you take responsibility not just for the sentence or findings, but for the “crime.” Taking responsibility for the result is not the same as for the action. You have no honor until that happens, and if I see you enter a race I am in, I will tell you this to your face so you know who I am. Personally though, I hope you dont try to race locally, because you arent welcome by the vast majority of the crowd until you come clean and give real info.

Wheelsucker

Jared, in all sincerity, the comments you get are directly related to what you yourself wrote here. You wrote: “I am truly sorry for this. I will issue a statement concerning this shortly. Please realize that there is more to every story than just a headline.”

I never saw that statement. Neither did others. That is a source of friction for many.

There is no hate in this post – just an explanation as I see it.

Best wishes, regardless.

Wheelsucker

Hes not “facing” anything with that weak and badly written statement, essentially saying nothing except how hard its been for him (worlds smallest violins…) and the sport needs more testing (you think?). Quite the opposite. His stonewall continues, and that statement merely confirms his ongoing lack of willingness to “face” us honestly.

Wheelsucker

Until Jared comes clean he is as bad a Pulla….actually I take that back. Pulla is far worse because he has returned to racing and hangs a poster of his accomplishments in his shop…That result was built with cheating.

I do not have any hate/anger towards you Jared: I just think you could do the honorable thing and be open about what really happened.

Don’t let this go and end up like Tyler. It will follow you.

Wheelsucker

i thought jared lost all that weight eating subway sandwiches. now all this hoopla about doping. huh?

J. Bunde

It is important to understand the time line of how things happen with a positive drug test. My test was at the end of July, at Superweek in Wisconsin. The first notification that I received was mid September. It would be very hard for me to pinpoint the exact cause of my positive after the six weeks had passed. I did look into having products tested, and the cost is roughly $400 per analysis; to determine where the contaminant entered my system could have been very expensive. And I would still serve a suspension.

While I took supplements, I did not intentionally take Clomiphene. I took a lot of supplements, and this is a practice that I see as both common and dangerous. I am sure that many racers have similar practices and in doing so, surf the gray area of what is allowable. I don’t claim to have been naive as to the dangers of unregulated nutritional products.

When I first started racing, there was a limit to the amount of caffeine allowable in your blood stream. I have seen pseudo ephedrine go on and back off of the banned list. Things with the list do change, and some products on the list may be surprising.

I very openly discussed this event and the repercussions of the penalties with my prior teams and employer prior to the public announcement. I have discussed it at detail with many people. Please understand that this has been extremely hard for me to deal with, and the public nature of it only serves to compound some of these issues. Part of what makes this so hard is accepting guilt for an act that was unintentional. Am I sorry? Yes. At this stage of the game all that I can do is move forward.

Currently the only supplement that I take is a multivitamin from a company called USANA, which uses pharmaceutical standards in production.

As far as my results are concerned: as those who know me are aware, my development followed a normal pattern. I started seriously racing in 2001. In 2002 I was ranked in the top ten Nationally in three event on the track. I started to race internationally in 2003, and have raced in over ten different countries since. In no way was my path to the level that I achieved in 2007 meteoric.

I devoted most of the energy in my life toward my pursuit of this sport.

Anyhow. This interview is about Charlie.

Wheelsucker

I raced a little in NYC in the early 90s, and Mr. I was an institution even back then. It’s nice to see Charlie continuing the Issendorf involvement in the NYC racing scene–great to have a promoter with such a deep understanding of the sport, the races, and the racers, and with such a decent demeanor. You’re all lucky.

Now, how about an interview with someone just getting into the sport, but already rising to the top? Better have a chat with Evie Stephens before she heads off to Colorado or California or wherever super naturals go these days. It would be great to hear what her sport background is, how she got into racing, what she eats for breakfast, etc. And she appears to have a lot of fun racing her bike–something that, at least from 80 % of the commentary on NYVC, seems to be in short supply in the men’s peleton. Maybe people could pick up a tip or two.

Matt Gibble

You guys do a great jobs on these interviews. I love reading about guys that I knew back in the late 80’s. Charlie, I’m glad to see that you’re feeling better post crash and such a positive influence in NYC. You and Rich H. have done well for yourselves!

I’m with you on the leader’s jersey deal. The highlight of my very average career was leading Superweek for one day back in ’89. Wouldn’t you know they didn’t have a leader’s jersey that year at all? I went down to South Shore Crit just to hear my name announced as the leader but didn’t race that day. Shit, I still wish I had a jersey from that!

Rock on Charlie and all you crazies back in NYC. These Colorado riders out here lack the flair of East Coast Racers, a little nutty and tons of attitude!

Matt Gibble

Wheelsucker

scariest post ever.

just thinking that the Colorado riders are nuttier and have more attitude than us jerks is truly scary.

Wheelsucker

Ah! So I guess, though he doesnt even say it (again), the big excuse is that a rare specific drug that happens to be linked to known common doping regimes, somehow got into a nutrition supplement he was taking before a big national race, and also after his relatively recent burst of extraordinary found power witness by all locals who raced him (meteoric indeed). Evidently it wasnt an ingrediant (or could be explained easily), but was present in large enough quantities to affect a test some time later.

Yeah, riiiiiiiight. Jared, do you have a bridge for sale too? You gotta do better than that, man. So weak. Its barely better than the chimera excuse, actually.

Anonymous

I can understand a person taking a myriad of vitamin supplements and subsequently getting pinched. I get it. I understand the grey area of having to stay on top of a multitude of ingredients in any given supplement to make sure one is in the clear. I’m sorry that things went south on that front. I hope that your new team and coaching staff, wherever you may land, will help you police that shit a little better so that you dont get caught out nxt time. The funny yet disturbing aspect of this thread is that most of the folks that write such negative comments here have probably never been tested. We wouldnt know that since the comments have no author. To the person that would slam JB on the startline – that’s BS when the balls are lacking in just owning up on a website – and on that note only the promoter or uscf should be making calls like that anyhow.
I hope your return to nyc racing is a pleasant one.

-lee

Wheelsucker

[i]I hope your return to nyc racing is a pleasant one.[/i]

no one will say anything to his face. all the unpleasantness will remain here.

Wheelsucker

Whats all this complaining about the weather? They have more snow in Colorado than most see in NY (excluding January 2009) and I hear some pretty good cyclists there. Put on your tights and HTFU.

Wheelsucker

Jared, by posting to this forum you are not helping the situation.
you are only provoking people to lash out at you. time heals, so please consider staying away for awhile. move to paris for a year or something.

Great interview Charlie, you ROCK brother!!!

Wheelsucker

great interview, Charlie really describes what it takes to race at a level higher than most of us will ever see. I’m convinced bike racing is the toughest sport, physically and mentally.

Wheelsucker

no sense in harping on bunde. i wish him well and hope he can put this behind him. but there is no way that clomiphene just happened to be in some over-the-counter supplement that he took without reading the label carefully. companies that make supplements don’t go randomly mixing prescription fertility drugs into their products.

Wheelsucker

all the information of what jared took is in the USADA press release. I’m not quite sure why you feel like you guys need an explanation, but a year and a half later, you probably wont get it.

people that get caught, are generally winning lots of races, thats kinda why they get tested.

Wheelsucker

I can think of several guys locally that have appeared to have meteoric rises in power over the past few years.

Unless you’re contacting USADA and actively trying to change the situation, you really have no grounds to express your opinions.

whats done is done, get over it. and if you think time heals, this isn’t a death, Jared got caught, and will pay for it in some way or another for the remainder of his career as a bike racer. I think that’s punishment enough. Having anonymous d-bags harp on it every time drugs come up is a bit ridiculous. Perhaps its because you guys are so goddamn insulated from the problem that when it happens its the biggest fucking deal ever. It also seems like Pulla gets much less flack, and he’s been back racing for a bit. I suppose that is because most of you whiney bitches weren’t even around racing when that was going on. Until you’re in that same spot as Jared or Pulla, or consistantly barely get beat by them, I wouldn’t cast judgment.

Jared also didn’t win floyd race after floyd race by bike lengths. From what I recall, Amaury gave him a run for his money quite a bit, as well as the burrows. which begs the question….

Wheelsucker

I don’t see why you have to explain yourself to these A**clowns? You made a mistake as everbody does in life and your dealing with it.People are making a big issue out of what happen to you ,but hold your head and hope to see back on the start line soon. Bunch of A**clowns.www.emailgangstera**clown.org.

Wheelsucker

why even insinuate something like that. don’t you think they are gifted enough and train hard enough to win?

Wheelsucker

Even though I generally loathe prescriptivist swine, in order to help maintain an important logical concept I feel compelled to highlight that you’re both using the phrase ‘begs the question’ incorrectly.

‘Begs the question’ does not mean ‘raises the question.’

Begging the question is a type logical fallacy wherein your conclusion is somehow assumed within your premises. “The best form of government is democracy, since the majority is always right” is a very simplified example.

Wheelsucker

Again, to be correct I think you meant ‘libel,’ not ‘slander,’ since it was written and not spoken.

You could write, “that sh*t was straight-up libelous.”

However, I think it doesn’t technically meets the definition of either – defamation of character concerns something untrue stated as a fact.

Perhaps you might just want to write, “how about you STFU, a**clown.”

Wheelsucker

For the person who liberally used the word “ass clown” in his post, I’m going to go ahead and define a word that your high school GED probably didn’t include:
stigmatize (usu. be stigmatized) describe or regard as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval. The moment Jared admits to intentionally ingesting a banned substance he will be stigmatized. Should he do that he would likely never find a good team to ride for again. Admissions equate to black and white conclusions. Denials leave conclusions mired in a sea of gray, which is where we are now. I refuse to believe that the 6 week window between failing a test and being notified of a failed control made it impossible for Jared to know what he ingested. As far as the $400 bill for having products tested is concerned, Jared just TELL us what over the counter products you were taking. I would love to call each of the distributers and ask for a list of ingredients. Besides, shouldn’t we ALL know what those supplements were? Any one of us could wind up in the same situation one day…busted for a mystery ingredient in a supplement. I think Jared owes us all a duty of care here.

Wheelsucker

But if we’re striving for grammatical correctitude and alliteration, we could perhaps agree on “that was some loose-lipped libelousness.”

Wheelsucker

even “mr. grammar police” says “it doesn’t meets…..” go get some coffee or something

Wheelsucker

the biggest thing i am taking away from this interview is how awesome charlie looks on a bike, on a podium, winning a race

Wheelsucker

…how posters here can be just so clueless about ethics and basic logic. To suggest that you can’t vocally call out bad behavior unless you 1) are directly behind the cheating winner at the finish, or 2) have an active anti-doping calling program underway to USADA etc. is just….so stupid! Im sorry, but go finish high school and get at least minimally educated before you come here and tell us all that we have no right to stand up to an apparently unapologetic cheater who can’t even man-up to his “mistake” (another maddening term that should be called out every time it is used).

Wheelsucker

Cheating is cheating. Don’t sugar coat it and don’t fool yourself telling yourself it only matters if you finished behind the cheater. Everyone makes mistakes: it just matters how you come back from the mistake and to not own up to it and to defend it, purely defies logic. It is cheating or it is not. Bunde thinks he did not cheat. Clearily our governing body does.

Wheelsucker

Don’t think jared ever defended the use of drugs, or condoned it. You guys are looking way too deeply into this. Just drop it.

Wheelsucker

Before Bunde tested positive, I was mad at him for making me suffer at FBF. Then when he tested positive, I was mad either way – if it was intentional doping or stuff in a supplement. But I’m glad he came on here to support Charlie and open himself up to criticism. I think if/when he returns to racing, the two years suspension and stigma will have been fair enough punishment. Even as a crappy Cat 3 I know I’d be miserable if racing was taken away from me for 2 years. But there’s also no way Jared would have ever been taking prize money away from me since I would never have placed in those races – so I may be more lenient here and could understand those who would choose to remain angry at him when he returns.

Wheelsucker

the problem is that it appears those that are angry over it were never in the running for the money anyways. All the guys that regularly place got over it a long time ago. That community is relatively small. Its all the other jerkoffs that were never affected by Jared that make it an issue. You guys just need something to whine about, and if you have nothing of note to say, you correct grammar, which is quite possibly the most douchey thing to do, in any situation. Just makes you look like a cock.

Wheelsucker

I was not in the running for the TDF stage last year but I can assure you I was upset when RR of SD was popped for CERA.

You can’t expect a system of trust to operate smoothly with no complaints when someone violates it.

I wish Jared the best. I am not angry at him. I am just tired of people defending cheating. The same goes for Pulla: I like Pulla but the way he acted was poor.

Wheelsucker

I was excited to see him rising through the ranks yet again, and was looking forward to racing with him. Didn’t know if I would have the legs, but was definitely going to watch him, as I have heard countless stories of how he could read a race like nobodys business. I have only known him as the stand-up guy he is and a great race promoter. It was great to read about some of his racing. I was surprised it was as recent as ’02, just before I got into the sport. Heal well Charlie and get back in the races. Ironically my captcha word was collarbone…

Wheelsucker

logic? Why the hell were you pissed off when pros get popped at the tour? Did you expect something to change all of a sudden? Was the world a honest place, was there suddenly no money on the line or sponsorship to worry about. Its not the fact that people are doping, its the fact that you think they aren’t. Holding professional athletes up to some mythical level is ridiculous.

I’m not defending it. I pay the price for riding clean, namely not winning very often. But I don’t go around bashing people who got caught, cause there’s no fucking point getting upset about it. People aren’t gonna stop cause you ride clean, or chose not to. So go on your mission to rid the world of doping by bitching about it on some crappy website, we’ll see how fast it changes. I’m sure WADA totally keeps tabs on your feelings.

Wheelsucker

agreed on the Charlie style..
What frame was he riding at floyd that day? The kit and rig look awesome.

Wheelsucker

I don’t understand these two statements?

Why even suggest this?

“I could have doped in every single race I entered and never been caught. The trick is avoid races where you know there is testing like Nationals of maybe some NRC races. So you sacrifice the stars-and-stripes jersey (and no money for the win) to get paid every weekend in local races. That’s what a certain local doper did for years.”
Why do say this?
“I can guarantee no local NYC Cat 1 will win the overall at Fitchburg, Nature Valley or Altoona. But they can get good results at these races in individual stages and even in the overall.”

Wheelsucker

Charlie,
It makes you look just as bad as everyone else on here to throw out accusations of someones race choices…that is, unless this person (who you don’t mention) directly told you they were intentially avoiding larger races to avoid testing. Really, I thought you were more professional than to stoop to that trash talking level.

Wheelsucker

“the problem is that it appears those that are angry over it were never in the running for the money anyways. All the guys that regularly place got over it a long time ago.”

really? are you sure about that? I am not one of those elite few but if I were losing placings, winnings etc. to someone who was doping i’d be even more pissed.

Wheelsucker

Believe me, we’re over it. In fact, I don’t think anyone was ever really all the pissed off. Maybe disappointed, but not angry. Shit happens, especially beyond cat 3s. Unless you’re out there getting ripped apart by pros you wouldn’t understand.

Look, even Charlie says its a whole different ball game at that level. Its ALL about survival, unless you’re one of the few that is actually good enough to win, or at least try to win. So when you’re out there just trying to survive that 1, does not really please the sponsors all that much; 2, gets old really fast; 3, makes people consider a little extra help to either make it less painful or try to be one of those guys vying for the win. Its pretty easy to see how someone can go down that road pretty quick.

But with that said, there is a difference between racing at an ultra high level, which Jared did quite a bit over the past few years, and just racing around the park and doing a minimum of traveling-and still juicing up. That, is stupid.

I don’t defend it, but I also don’t condemn those who do succumb. Until you find yourself in that position, I’d hold judgment. And if you have, and are still all raw about it, you should probably find another sport, cause cycling just might not be for you.

Jared’s suspended. What else do you want? That’s how it works. If you think the punishment is somehow not enough, I suggest you take it up with the UCI and USADA, not NYVelocity. Lots of people are suspended, and it will continue.

Nobody makes enough prize money around here to give a shit about some placings. You all take this far too seriously. Its bike racing for christ’s sake. You should be doing it because you like it, not because you need upgrade points.

Wheelsucker

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2009/NEW01977.html

These are just some of the “extras” the FDA has discovered in dietary products lately. Be careful what you ingest. You can be sure that any GNC type amino acids/muscle building products will have similar relative “extras” thrown in until the gov’t gets a handle on things.
There’s is no doubt some locals have purposely doped, but some may not have and still got popped. I took a Nyquil a few years ago the night before Masters Nationals (to help sleep)…like a dumbass.
I freaked out the next day scouring the internet looking to see if it’s banned or some metabolite is banned. I didn’t want to be “that guy” and it was an honest stupid mistake and a total waste of mental energy. Of course there was no testing anyway. That’s part of the problem.
-Haig

Wheelsucker

“Believe me, we’re over it. In fact, I don’t think anyone was ever really all the pissed off.”

No, “we” are not, and yes, it did piss us off considerably, and still does, and still will as long as Bunde fails to admit and be contrite for his slide into doping.

“I don’t defend it, but I also don’t condemn those who do succumb. Until you find yourself in that position, I’d hold judgment.”

This whole line of argument is part of the bigger picture problem. The failure to condemn cheating makes it easier to cheat and not feel so bad when you get caught – because you dont get called out too bad. Just go away for two years and its all good, right? Wrong. If you admit and apologize to the community, it would be closer to “ok” to come back. If you dont, the lie compounds the cheat, and its even worse long term for the cheater.

A man with no honor does not recover honor with two years staying out of racing. Loss of honor can be forever in the absence of a true effort to make ammends. There is a reason that the Japanese used to regularly kill themselves over loss of honor – they understood under an honor-based society that the loss is often permanent. This is of course not a suggestion (like that congressman) for anybody to kill themselves, of course, but merely an illustration.

As for “holding judgement” – tell that to the millions who judge Armstrong et al who never race them. Its the right of society of judge its members for their actions. Sport is undertaken with a social code that it needs to be a fair and level playing field. Thats why we have rules, and are all expected to follow them. Just think about it, and perhaps be less quick to rush to forgive without the cheater ever admitting the error.

Wheelsucker

Something makes me think you are including yourself in that group of regulars, and perhaps you shouldn’t be…

You can wax poetically all you want about doping and honor, but you’re still aiming it in the wrong place.

Jared took the suspension, whats the problem? Bitch about guys that flat out refuse to admit they did it, like landis, or hamilton, or virenque, or schumacher….the list goes on forever.

Who knows if he purposefully took it or it was accident, who gives a fuck. He got caught, said ok, took the suspension, and is serving it. What else do you what from anyone? get over yourself. jesus. He’ll still beat you clean, and the sad thing is, you’ll just say hes not clean when he does, because you’re that big a douche.

Wheelsucker

Its you who doesn’t get it. You just dont get it at all.

I’m not as fast as Bunde, and it doesn’t matter and isnt the point. He still stole wins against me and the faster guys in our races here locally.

He didnt admit it, which puts him right along side Hamilton et al as far as Im concerned. No difference between a vanishing twin and claiming someone slipped the shit into a vitamin pill he took.

What else do I want? A lot more, actually. You dont get redemption from just “taking the suspension” or whatever. This is what you morally vapid idiots just dont get. I hope you get it eventually though. You make me sad.

Wheelsucker

sh*t happens
people do sh*tty things
i ride my bike anyway
you suck…spending so much time whining about other people and how you deserve an apology
he doesn’t owe you anything…
if he rides his bike it’s because he wants to..if you don’t like it, don’t ride next to him

Wheelsucker

I like (paraphrasing): “Charlie isn’t telling you who he’s talking about (with doping), but here’s a photo of him getting 3rd to someone who closely resembles that description”.

Wheelsucker mc

I think the problem is that I do get it, and I’ve moved on with my life. Your strange sense of entitlement is only going to leave you bitter. I’m ok with the fact that there is cheating in cycling, there is cheating in everything in life, get used to it. There has to be something I’m missing here, why have I gone on about my life and you haven’t? Its not like he stole your wife, he cheated in a bike race, A BIKE RACE. not the end of the world. give it up.

And lets say someday you were caught for dopin up, I’m not so sure you’d go on and write a tell all novel about your days with the needle; you’d probably just take the suspension and get on with it.

Lets put it another way: when someone gets notified of a non-negative, you have two options, take it, or request a B test. Of course you’re gonna ask for a B, cause maybe they will mess up or maybe you are clean and it will come back as such. If it doesn’t, you could fight it or just take it. I’m pretty sure USADA has never lost a battle, and won’t anytime soon, even if they are wrong. Too much is at stake for them to admit any wrong doing, everyone would then question their results. Just not gonna happen. You get situations like Hamilton and Landis fighting it, wasting money and time, and in effect extending their suspension time by not starting the suspension as soon as they got the B sample back. The wise choice is to take it, EVEN if you didn’t test positive, as the chance of vindication is slim to none. Its not worth the hassle.

That puts you in a pretty shitty spot. Clean or dirty, you’re looking to serve a suspension. I’m not saying Jared was either, they probably got the test right. He took the suspension, didn’t fight it like every other asshole. The details don’t matter. Maybe he doesn’t know, maybe he does, but it makes little difference in the end. Perhaps you all should just accept it at that. Digging deeper doesn’t help anyone. Demanding drug sources doesn’t help, as maybe there were none, maybe it was GNC, or maybe its just really easy to get drugs.

If for some reason Jared testing positive infuriates you a year and a half later, you should probably stop racing your bike, because you will never get over it. You should also boycott all televised pro races, as they not clean for the most part, and won’t be admitting it anytime soon.

I’ll welcome Jared back, because innocent or guilty 2 years is a long time, not to mention the fact that he’s a great guy, regardless of previous mis-steps.

Wheelsucker

I see both sides here:
– asking for a confession if there was an intent to cheat
– saying get over it because confessing intent goes beyond what’s “required”

I tend to side with confesion because today there is enough moral support for going clean to counter alienation from those implicated. And you’ll sleep better at night 😉 But again, until mandatory lie ditector tests, confession is a personal choice, just like choice to hold others to honorable standards is a personal choice.

Wheelsucker

or just take what was said at face value, and consider that the confession. Its the apparent requirement to pour your heart out or else you’re evil thats wrong.

Wheelsucker

If I tell you nothing, can you accept that as my “confession”? Ah, I think not. Nice try, Mr. GED.

Its not a confession I seek. He can go talk to his priest for that. Its an apology. Two diff things, folks. I already know his cheated, so I dont need to hear him tell me the gory details in a confession. I seek an apology for cheating me and others. Doesnt have to be a book, or kowtowing etc. Just a simple apology would be a nice thing.

Btw, I have “gone about my life” quite nicely thank you and dont think about this day to day. Im certainly not enraged or crazy mad either, and def not outside of the context of this discussion (as one way as it is with the mentally and educationally challenged poster that seems to be participating). In fact I enjoy riding and racing every week, regardless of the existance of cheaters among us. Part of the sport indeed. None of that is to the point. I am simply standing up (ok, firmly), for the sake of demanding accountability for those who cheat and dishonor themselves and our sport and community. I believe that needs to be done and is the right thing. I dont necessarily expect Bunde to answer. He has already made it clear that he would rather duck the issue – I could care less about him personally. But, I feel its bad form to let such things pass without notice, as the other poster would prefer we all do. His preference for “just racing” and accepting the cheating as part of the sport is a valid choice. I stand up for fair play, and personal accountability, in sport and in life. So sue me.

Wheelsucker

your BFF fox your (lover)friend, everyone in the room knows it, you still want to fox your (lover)friend, but won’t until (lover) and your BFF admit/apologize/whatever…

No you go back to foxing in denial as foxing is much better than abstinence, until you can find someone new to fox…

happy hunting

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