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Towards A National, USA Cycling Administered Anti-Doping Crowd-Fund

Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:26pm by Wheelsucker

How do you create a deterrent to doping on the local level, and hopefully foster a change in the culture that percolates up to higher levels of the sport?

 
We have proposed a voluntary crowd-funded model here locally in the Mid-Atlantic and have attracted the support of the majority of local promoters, but there is a wider discussion to be had here that must involve USA Cycling.
 
Simply put, testing for banned substances costs a lot of money. USADA charges around $6000 for a package of ten tests at a single event. This price tag is beyond reach for most event promoters whose primary worry is providing for the safety of racers. Many riders want testing on the local level, but how do you cover the expense?
 
It can be done through crowd-funding, but resistance to our effort has been telling. It is my opinion that the gut reaction against our proposed Mid Atlantic Clean Ride Fund is the grassroots nature of the effort itself. On the surface, it comes off as pure narcissism and proselytizing. Testing is something that happens "to the pros", and by advocating it on a local level you're just a want-to-be. 
 
Many local riders simply "don't care enough to spend the money" or are put off by testing for recreational substances. We've addressed this by proposing purely voluntary funding, but that in turn fosters an us-vs-them mentality. Because as USA Cycling license holders, while donating is voluntary, agreeing to submit to testing is not. "Grassroots" and peeing in a cup, or giving blood, aren't exactly concepts that fit neatly. 
 
The current models advocated by local efforts -- ranging from purely voluntary crowd funded efforts (Florida Clean Ride Fund and our plan) to mandatory per race surcharges (an effort in Pennsylvania) -- are amazing grassroots initiatives. FCRF in particular has been very successful. But I believe that in the long term, USA Cycling must take a leadership and administrative role. Individual riders (like myself or Jared Zimlin of the FCRF) cannot be the focal point of debate. Do we really want twenty separate funds nationally, each consuming the time and energy of volunteers to do the yearly books and flirting with personal bias? Do we really want no oversight on how the testing takes place as funded by each of these twenty entities? And finally do we want twenty separate educational resources, twenty websites, twenty twitter feeds, and twenty acronyms? 
 
I don't. The Kickstarter model is all well and good, but the problem requires something bigger. 
 
I want USA Cycling to make our sport cleaner on the local level, I believe that lots of people agree with me, and would be willing to donate to a national crowd-fund. USA Cycling should establish a fund that individuals can donate to, and earmark their funds either to testing at events presented by their local association, or to testing of professional athletes. This fund should compliment the efforts USA Cycling already takes to combat doping. If there is a debate to be had on the efficacy of testing at the local level, this debate should be had on a national level with input from our governing body and all license holders. 
 

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So
By: Aurelien Pulley
Thu, 01/31/2013 - 4:39pm
Why USA Cycling administered?
By: John Lieswyn
Thu, 01/31/2013 - 5:22am

Slight conflict of interest? A bit like the UCI administering tests on it's riders? Why not USADA?

So
By: Doffo Tarmac
Fri, 01/25/2013 - 6:05am
USA Cycling already did
By: Maxence Topcap
Fri, 01/25/2013 - 2:32am

USA Cycling already did "convince" the Colorado independent racing association to merge back with the mother ship. It happened at the end of 2011/beginning of 2012. Steve Johnson personally met with the leadership of the then independent Colorado bike racing association (the ACA) and club representatives and made his pitch. It was put to a vote (at a later date) and the leadership of the ACA and all clubs elected to rejoin the USAC. Yeah, looks like an awfully stupid move in retrospect. Higher fees for racers and now governed by the two-headed monster of the USAC and the Local Colorado Association of the USAC (the BRAC). Its a real cluster ... but the ACA leadership and clubs (and racers) did it to themselves.

5:55am
By: Martin Tigweld
Fri, 01/25/2013 - 2:08am

what organization works differently?

USA Cycling - corrupt U.S. branch of UCI
By: Tuur Ceramic
Thu, 01/24/2013 - 5:55am

USA Cycling only conducts doping controls as window dressing, hence the exhorbitant pricing. They are strong arming the independent associations in Colorado and Oregon to merge back with USA Cycling as they see an easy vampire play to suck the liquidity out of these well functioning local associations. USA Cycling is a corrupt organization with high ranking board members involved in the web of multiple companies they feed off of citizen and lower category racers. If you are not an elite racer, then you are just a stooge in the mind of USA Cycling... Pay your license fee your race entry and other surcharges, then get lost amateur. This organization needs to burn.

I for one like to see 'roid
By: Tom Seattube
Wed, 12/12/2012 - 7:16pm

I for one like to see 'roid rage in Central Park races.

Let's get Rrrrrrrrreeady to Rrrrrrrrrumble at the Ramble!

yellow line
By: Lilian Swage
Wed, 12/12/2012 - 7:01pm

Yellow line violations and doping are two very different things. A yellow lane violation can impact the entire peloton. It can cause an accident that could hurt many riders in the peloton. Doping is basically just hurting the dumb rider who does it and the ego's of those who don't do it and care that others are doing it. Ride your bike and have fun while doing it. If someone elses doping bother's that much, then don't ride with them any more. I don't like doping as much as the next guy. I don't want others doing it. But at the same time it is just not important enough for me to want to pay extra for it or to want to have someone watch the pee come out of my wiener to prove I am not a doper.

well mathieu...
By: no thanks
Sat, 12/08/2012 - 1:18am

one is enforceable, and the other is not. and before you say "so we shouldn't even try?" we should and we are but it's an equation. how far are we willing to go, and that is what this argument is about. Red herring.

there's a lot of race-ism
By: Sacha Rivnut
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:18pm

there's a lot of race-ism being exhibited here.

@Hot tubE
By: Mathieu Headset
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:04pm

I don't think you understood the sarcasm in my post. I agree with you -- why bother to pay to race if you don't want the rules enforced? I was just using the same logic that others use around enforcing one particular rule (anti-doping) and extending it to other rules. I.e., if you don't care about rules being enforced, then why pay to race and have the yellow-line and other rules enforced?

Extenze to Mengoni
By: William Sealant
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 7:47pm

Extenze to Mengoni

so, by your logic
By: no thanks
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 7:25pm

testing will ease your mind that you aren't getting beat by cheaters. the testing we have has caught a few, so we should have more, because obviously more people are doing it....

um. you see where I'm going with this?

extenze
By: Alessio Grips
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 7:11pm

I regularly take extenze to make my junk look bigger in tights. does anyone know if it contains any banned substances?

You're right the tests don't
By: hater69
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 6:18pm

You're right the tests don't catch everybody. But that's not a good reason to not have them. The tests have already caught enough riders in our area to prove their worth. Sorry but if we can afford having testing at the larger races in this area along with some targeted local testing I think we should do it.

@the dude
By: Hot tubE
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 6:15pm

Actually, I only do a few CP/PP races each, mostly March for training races. Once April hits I drive around the northeast like nomad racing the other crits. But I am aware that there are less people like me doing that than are commenting here.

doping circle jerk
By: Dry Lube
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 5:15pm

I would even welcome some ugg boot spam about now

If you think that testing
By: Vidal
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 4:55pm

If you think that testing will take away the question whether the guys who beat you from the break were doping you need to take a deep breath and reread the evidence that indicates no. The tests are not only beatable, but easily beatable.

You're having this conversation mainly because a huge number of guys are presently admitting to doping who never got caught.

@ Forest Chump
By: Lorenzo Compliant
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 4:05pm

Life is like a lab test of DA's urine; you never know what you're gonna get.

Vidal is right
By: Axel Rubber Hood
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 3:29pm

It's a hobby. Most of us adults are in it for fun. @Wooden Spork, if you really stay up nights worrying if the guys in the break that beat you were doping, you really need to get a life.

10:37pm
By: the dude
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 4:48am

i slightly respect what you're saying. but, if you're posting here, chances are 99% of the racing you do is in either cp, pp, or fbf. so, your aspirations, while admirable, are extremely far fetched. let's bring this argument back to scale please.

lol
By: Bernardo Neck
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 1:48am

"Debate is going in circles" same as we race

lol
By: Hot tubE
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:37pm

Debate is going in circles, lol. I don't think I'm alone in saying I want to see how far I can go in this sport. My goals certainly aren't Pro aspirations, but I do want to get to a point where I can line up with the pros in the biggest domestic crits. So, when i race I race I do it seriously to get to my next goal. At this level a cheater can get in the way of what I am trying to achieve for myself. So to you it's a beer league. To me it's the path to lining up with Bahati, Young and Anthony at races like Tarrapan or Iron Hill where you have 20,000 spectators cheering you on at the start. It's a cool feeling, one I can only take advantage of for a few years. So, if some jerk is going to delay my ambitions because of cheating I think I am in the right to expect, demand testing for fairer racing.

Will the racing be 100% clean, who knows, but it's better than it used to be... I hope.

"But now guys are calling for
By: Maxence Bearing
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 9:50pm

"But now guys are calling for out of competition testing and biological passports. For a fucking beer league? I'm a middle aged guy. You guys are nuts. Do you need to feel pro so much that you need a tester coming to your house at night when you're home with your family? 9:30 you're putting your kids to bed, your wife has a meeting the next day, and your doorbell rings and you're supposed to graciously pee in a cup. All for the privilege of spending a fair amount of money, on a sport where you get no respect from anyone (motorists, the city) and ride around in circles because you can't hold races at a decent hour?"

truth...

@ no thanks
By: Wylie Brazeon
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 9:48pm

nope. clearly there are more.

But as it stands now everyone knows what races to avoid if you don't want to be tested. I just think that even the 50% possibility of being tested at, say, Mengoni or Harlem would go a long way to solve the problem.

I only do this so I can drink
By: Nanni Kevlar
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 8:32pm

I only do this so I can drink beer, lots of beer while maintaining my girlish figure

no, you rocket scientist
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 8:22pm

i didn't say stop what we were doing. but, as long as you bring it up. has their being busted make you feel sure that the guys who beat you were clean?

@ Mathieu Headset
By: Hot tubE
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 8:21pm

Maybe instead of bike racing we should all just pickup Sarcastaball where hugging and compliments get you touchdowns.

Why do you bother to pay for races. That bothers me, since you bring up not caring about all of this stuff. You're there to be pack fodder. I would rather have people in the race who are willing to contribute to the race. People who really along for the ride, get in the way and accomplish nothing other than spending money to ride around the park. Yes, I would like dopers removed, but having you out as well would be nice too.

think of the handful of NYC
By: Wylie Brazeon
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 7:28pm

think of the handful of NYC riders who have gotten popped (we all know who they are)....does anyone here think it's unfair or inappropriate that they were tested? If so, then I guess you can legitimately say that drug testing should never happen for local events. But I don't know how anyone can really be sorry that those guys got caught.

don't worry mathieu
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 7:01pm

I don't think you are ever in any danger of being any fun

Don't test me - it takes the "fun" out of it - we're amateurs
By: Mathieu Headset
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 6:58pm

While we are at it, stop enforcing the yellow line rule.

I mean, if you get beat because a bunch of dudes went around the whole group by going over the yellow line, who cares. They are putting themselves in danger, and you should all be happy to just race and let them put themselves in danger to win a pair of sock.

While we're at it, can we get rid of officials in general? This is supposed to be fun, stop trying to be all "pro" by having guys in zebra shirts watching out for rules violations. If some dude wants to cut the course to claim victory, I'm sure he isn't too happy to look in the mirror. Meanwhile, I am just in it for fun. Having officials telling me what to do and enforcing "rules" takes all the fun out of it.

I've even seen guys get penalized for drafting in a TT! I mean, we are just out to have fun, why penalize people for drafting in a TT. Those guys enforcing the rules are just trying to take the fun out of it.

in his prime, thanks to
By: Forrest Chump
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 6:14pm

in his prime, thanks to dopers, myserson lost out on a glorious pro career at maybe 20k/yr. to race crits in greenbo alambama with an $800 payout for the top 10. yeah, bummer.

this sport is laughable sometimes. most of the time, actually.

Vidal
By: Vidal
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 6:03pm

Sassoon. Not Euris Vidal.

I like Adam. He's a good guy,
By: Vidal
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:52pm

I like Adam. He's a good guy, and a warrior. And yes he may have lost out on a contract because 'we' didn't test, but the pond he wanted to swim in was dirty anyway. He would have been forced into the same decision trying to climb the ranks in Europe. Knowing him he would have made the same choice. So had any of the numerous pros we had in Europe stayed clean it wouldn't have meant that Adam got to race in the show. Because the same cast of characters in Europe would have been doped to the gills.

That doesn't make it right, and he has a right to feel however he does. But the problem is bigger than any rider or guys like Crawford.

I trust you guys have been
By: Vidal
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:48pm

I trust you guys have been paying attention to cycling news, Olympic athletics and have read things like Tyler's book. Simply because one passes a test it does not follow that one is clean. The only reason David Anthony got caught at the Gran Fondo was because he was stupid. He knew what was necessary to test clean and he didn't take serious the prospect of being tested. This from his own words. Athletes have been beating tests for as long as there have been tests. The angst you're trying to remove by advocating for these things will not be alleviated by the testing. Its simply shift forms. Instead of worrying who is doping it will become 'how are they beating the tests?'

Adler raced a smart race to
By: schmalz
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:39pm

Adler raced a smart race to Mengoni

Not too long ago this all
By: Sacha Torque
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:35pm

Not too long ago this all used to be more fun and funny. Smart Adler racing, Ugli's bike handling skills, FBF toilets, Dan's missing zipp, Andy's wind tunnel... pet my monkey

http://stevetilford.com/?p=23
By: Wooden Spork
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:20pm

http://stevetilford.com/?p=23079&fb_action_ids=10100676230011558&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=addtoany&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={%2210100676230011558%22%3A306149532820434}&action_type_map={%2210100676230011558%22%3A%22og.likes%22}&action_ref_map={%2210100676230011558%22%3A%22addtoany%22}

It's a leap but not a huge
By: hater69
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:20pm

It's a leap but not a huge one.

Anyway I think testing at the NRC, USA Crits, NCC levels is a must. That means we should be testing at fairly "local" races like Somerville, Harlem, etc. I think testing at big regional races like Battenkill, GMSR, Killington, and others is a also a good idea. If USADA does show up to our 6am bullshit ego fest it should be to perform targeted testing.

So don't worry Cat 3 pack fill like I've said before this is not about you.

There wasn't much more left
By: Andy Shen
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:17pm

There wasn't much more left to the DA story that Velonews didn't get. I did confirm the source of his EPO, it isn't a local dealer and I'm pretty sure there wasn't anyone else involved. I would've posted something but there was little left to say and the site went so bananas on the first posting that it didn't seem worthwhile to dredge up all the vitriol again.

A great commentary
By: Wooden Spork
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:06pm

It's worth reading:

http://stevetilford.com/?p=23079&fb_action_ids=10100676230011558&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=addtoany&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={%2210100676230011558%22%3A306149532820434}&action_type_map={%2210100676230011558%22%3A%22og.likes%22}&action_ref_map={%2210100676230011558%22%3A%22addtoany%22}

to say that
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:00pm

myerson lost out on a contract because we didn't test amateurs is a HUGE leap. The pros who have been good enough to tell their story consistently started doping as pros, not amateurs.more information would help here, perhaps if we ever got DA's, or others, stories, as was dangled in front of us...

What else can we do.
By: Wooden Spork
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:56pm

What else can be done though. The reality is next year's pros do come through the amateur ranks. Every rider was a Cat 5,4,3,2,1 at one time. This year I saw a 19 year old destroy some top level races and get his first Pro contract with Jelly Belly. Yes, you will all see Ben Wolfe in a J/B kit next season. I wouldn't care abotu testing a rider like that because even an average Cat 1 is not close to Wolfe's physical abilities. As these talented individuals rise through the amateur ranks there will be average Cat 1s and 2s trying to compete with younger top talent. Most likely a select few will reach what they think is that so called grey line and are bound to consider the idea of cheating. It is those people I want out of the sport. If testing is the only way to deter these people, then it's all we have to go on. Not testing results in guys like Adam Myerson losing pro opportunities to doped up riders.

The testing is another cog in machine in my opinion. Remove one cog the whole machine breaks.

and
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:40pm

in case you haven't noticed, it's definitely not just me. There are plenty of other posters against it, not from my ip address as Shen and Dan can tell you.

just do random friggin tests
By: Keano Saddlebag
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:39pm

just do random friggin tests at races for crying out loud. get the winner or top 2-3.

anything beyond that is positively ridiculous, esp. for a crca race.

the only ones who have a legit gripe are those who lost out to a doper on 1st and maybe, just maybe, 2nd place. third place, who cares. seriously.

neither.
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:38pm

that's not even close to the only 2 options

to reiterate: I don't think it works. It doesn't at the pro level, what do you guys think you will do differently and successfully. If you are only doing it so you know the guy who beat you was clean, you will never have that kind of assurance. so, why? Beyond that, just the mere fact of doing it signals something very wrong to me, that we are taking our amateur sports, our pastimes, way too seriously. If it means so much to someone that they are willing to cheat, so be it. Their loss, I guarantee you they aren't having as much fun as me. Your turn - what makes you think you guys can design a perfectly foolproof system? That's what you'll need to "not wonder"

@No Thanks
By: Wooden Spork
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:30pm

I'm curious. Do you truly hate the idea of trying t stop cheating locally or are you just playing devil's advocate?

but it doesn't work!!!
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:19pm

it won't put the matter to rest. look at the pros. The more positives that are returned, the more it will convince you everybody does it. If positives aren't returned, the dopers are just beating the tests, you will not be satisfied!

dm
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:12pm

first of all, thanks vidal for giving me hope that someone on this board still has sense. I was worried. Second of all, I like Dan, I am friends with Dan and respect him, but I am not sure this counts as "Omerta". Not sure what Bicycling thought they were doing, but they published the article. He didn't sneak it in. They may have scapegoated him for upset advertisers, but not really Omerta. Anyway, just once more for good measure. All you nutjobs that want testing for amateurs, especially out of comp, are unbelievably insane.

So you're saying that the
By: Riiiight
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:11pm

So you're saying that the editors looked over the piece, edited it, put it online, left it online, then suddenly decided it was bad and fired him? And they were dumb enough to fire him the day after without thinking that it might look obvious? That makes no sense. Omerta would be NOT posting the article in the first place. McMahon's trying to make himself out to be a martyr but maybe he just wasn't right for the job?

2 sides
By: Wooden Spork
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:10pm

Euris, (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)

I agree that at the very least the NCC, NRC, USACrit and Nats need to have USADA present. I'm amazed some of these races do not.

However, for me some local testing is needed to simply put the wonder I have to rest. I'm tired of wondering if that amazing breakaway I saw that one time was won by a cheat. I try to put it out of my head and not think about it. The way I did when I was a Junior. But those days are gone thanks to a handfull of A-holes. I used to think well, HA Ulrich got caught that P.O.S., but at least all of the American superstars are clean. 10 years later I know better.

So now, no matter how hard I try to enter races without ever the though of how good the winner is, I can't help but think the worst is possible. I'm nearing the point where it makes it hard to enter races. I simply want them to be fun like they used to be. I think testing will reaffirm my belief in the local peloton.

I wont lie, I've wondered about you and other Foundies before because you produce amazing power. I'm sick of wondering.

Omerta still exists
By: Thomas Brakepad
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 2:57pm

Daniel McMahon was fired today from his position at Bicycling Magazine. Fired the day after they published his interview with Kimmage from last week. Although I can't say definitively that it was beause of that artile, one has to wonder. If we are all as concerne about doping as we say we are then we should demand that Dan's former boss explain why she fired him.

It's a lot like data
By: uli
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:29pm

It's a lot like data protection and Google. The ones who scream the loudest about the safety of their personal data are usually the same people who have absolutely nothing to fear because no one cares about them.

I win a good number of races
By: Vidal
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:38am

I win a good number of races each year. But this is, wait for it, my hobby. Yes I take it seriously. I train hard. Eat right. Build family time around racing and traveling.

This started with the seemingly forgotten idea that Champ Sys would donate some money for CRCA to test. Kinda dumb, but ok. It's a reaction to a problem that's pretty minor....guys cheating in 6am CP races.

The idea then progresses, logically, to a more effective testing at races. Perhaps, even at big race (any one say nationals?). Makes some element of sense. I'm in for that. Win and pee in a cup. Grab a couple of randoms...sounds fair.

But now guys are calling for out of competition testing and biological passports. For a fucking beer league? I'm a middle aged guy. You guys are nuts. Do you need to feel pro so much that you need a tester coming to your house at night when you're home with your family? 9:30 you're putting your kids to bed, your wife has a meeting the next day, and your doorbell rings and you're supposed to graciously pee in a cup. All for the privilege of spending a fair amount of money, on a sport where you get no respect from anyone (motorists, the city) and ride around in circles because you can't hold races at a decent hour?

It's a very difficult position to take seriously.

There are any number of things guys (me) can choose to do with our recreational time. Yes, I love racing my bike, and I've been doing it for decades. It would be a hard thing to give up. But there's a tipping point. For most guys racing is, or will be, a source of family stress, Training, travel, cost all weigh in. Now guys are going actively stress over drug tests? And we're not just talking EPO here. You guys don't get to cherry pick the list. Guys who are spouting off about testing should really study the list and consider the implications. There's a desire to catch some super fast. But more than likely ignorance will rule the day and just everyday people who are in this for fun and friendship and getting in shape will be those who get caught. There are all kinds of things on there that folks take regularly, or often when they get sick. Are you really going to choose to not take something because some tester may come to your door, or you might have to pee in a cup after a park race?

Before starting to worry about testing small races, and knocking on people's doors, it makes much more sense to start testing at the higher levels. A lot of testing at those NRC races this year? How about nationals? When they start testing those how about showing up at a bunch of the A races on the USAC calendar? If a problem is shown to exist keep expanding it. But this is idiotic. Calm down. Public perception of cyclists is a much greater limiter to the growth and success of our sport than doping on the local level. Start being ambassadors for the sport, then worry about some asshole who is a hole in his that he's trying to fill with stuff that can kill him. Do you really care if he beats you at a race?

just think about all the
By: the dude
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 4:28am

just think about all the entertainment we got from the DA positive. if we have more testing, we're sure to have more positives, ergo we're sure to have more entertainment.

I AM!
By: no thanks
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:47am

seriously! I don't know what's wrong with you yahoos that you think the pros can't figure this out, but start a fund and test one or two winners and you guys are all good. You're seriously crazy. No. You're dumb.

Landis tested false-positive
By: David Internal Routing
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 3:35am

Landis tested false-positive for steroids. He wasn't on steroids at the time (however he WAS doped to the gills on EPO and transfusions). I'm curious why no one seems concerned about test reliability and it's implications at our level.

JV
By: Liam Chainline
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 2:33am

Vaughters reminds me of the actor Michael Emerson in his role on "Person of Interest."

http://www.cbs.com/shows/person_of_interest/photos/199392/season-2-episo...

Jeez. I win and place. Don't
By: Threadlock
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 1:35am

Jeez. I win and place. Don't dope. I think this testing talk is absolutely ridiculous.

Out Of Competition
By: uli
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:18am

Yes, we did out of competition tests at GFNY and we will do it again.

The primary goal of amateur testing is not catching the cheaters. It is about deterring dopers from competing at our events. It's about making that 9pm doorbell ring uncomfortable for a doper. Don't let the few dopers take away your passion for a healthy amateur competition.

Doping by amateurs isn't harmless. It hurts everyone. Family, friends and teammates find out they've been lied to. An employer questions if a person who is capable of cheating in their hobby also lacks ethics in their job. The doping small business owner might lose customers. And the neighborhood kids who looked up to the rider now have the rug pulled from under them. Last but not least: the athlete is putting his health and even life in jeopardy. Many have already died from EPO overdoses.

Organizers who put on events that invite fierce competition have an obligation to do their part to provide fair racing conditions. A race needs rules, otherwise it becomes a free for all, the competition becomes a farce and consequently utterly pointless.

if
By: Elias Cable
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:05am

you are complaining about testing, my guess is you are not near the places or are doping. Probably just pack fill, bitching. I am near or in the places and would love if it were feasable to test me and anyone that ever finished ahead of me. I would love to be sure all of the results are clean, can't understand why that would ever bother anyone but dirty riders or pack fill

USADA does not really do
By: Dieter Drake
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 11:41pm

USADA does not really do random testing, as I understand it...so either dope and don't race, or don't dope and race. 'Dope and don't race' gets you a beer (but I'm inviting USADA to the bar too since it's on my tab).

The short of it is that I'm fed up with the whole doping saga. If having testing at Battenkill keeps the nutjobs who dope from coming, then great. This is the price we're all paying for immortalizing a handful of frauds, fraudulent acts, and one thug. The sooner it's over the better.

Young Cat 3's dope too
By: Dooly Noted
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 11:39pm

Chodroff probably didn't start doping when he turned pro

I have to correct myself
By: Andy Shen
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 10:51pm

I have to correct myself again. I know of one guy who was tested in his home in advance of this year's Gran Fondo NY. So out of competition testing for amateurs isn't out of the question. Whether that's a good or bad thing, is another question.

Bravo Dieter. I hope the
By: hater69
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 10:48pm

Bravo Dieter.

I hope the people making the "we're not important enough to test" argument realize that its not about you. Yes truly no one cares about the life long cat 3's. Fortunately there is more to the sport then just you. In this country amateur racing is our talent pool for the top level of the sport. Young guys climbing out of the cat 3 ravine of bullshit and making their way towards the top levels should be getting tested.

you'd think those who
By: Wylie Brazeon
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 9:21pm

you'd think those who win/place clean would benefit the most, if only because now every time someone wins a race they are automatically suspect. So maybe all of these people posting here ridiculing those in favor of testing either aren't winning or aren't clean.

Cheap and Easy
By: Maxence Bearing
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 8:10pm

This is easy:

Automatic 2 year suspensions for the top 3 in every field in every race.

these whiners who desperately
By: Adam Bartape
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 8:07pm

these whiners who desperately want dope testing probably got tossed in the trash can one too many times in junior high. now it's their time to shine and get even. you go, girls!

This is liking getting mad
By: Lenny Ziptie
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 7:50pm

This is liking getting mad because someone cheated at Twister.

7:18pm
By: Ridolfo Seatpost
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 7:49pm

right on. this lot are probably spelling police and the stricken sphincters whose toilet paper must roll from over the top

Amateur cycling the dying
By: Lenny Ziptie
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 7:48pm

Amateur cycling the dying breath of the War on Drugs?

This is sad.

annnnndd
By: no thanks
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 7:42pm

that's exactly what I was afraid you were teaching them. great.

Competitive sports are not fun
By: Wooden Spork
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 7:40pm

I wonder if Pat Mcquade ever chimes in here. We would never know.

what noa and thomas said
By: no thanks
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 7:18pm

Seriously, the rest of you are blowing my freaking mind. I can't believe you are my peers. Love to hear what you are teaching your children about the fun of competitive sports

I am going to start a
By: Lex Luthor
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 6:39pm

I am going to start a breakaway all-doping unsanctioned cycling league next year called the Legion of Doom. No testing, no rules, the motto will be "Run What ya Brung."

No, it isn't
By: Thomas Brakepad
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 6:24pm

That is NOT the sport that I have chosen.

It boggles my mind that you people are so vigorously defending the idea of drug testing an AMATEUR activity. It's pathetic to me that some of us (or some of YOU may be a better way to phrase it) think we are important enough in the scheme to warrant testing. I feel sorry for you who obviously believe that this is significant enough in your life to take it this seriously.

you gotta be kidding? this
By: Noa Headbadge
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 6:22pm

you gotta be kidding? this is now a fucking joke. unreal.

the day i let a random drug tester show up to my apartment at any hour to take my piss is the day i give up sanctioned AMATEUR racing.

seriously people, get over your sanctimonious selves already.

deal with testing at your own team level. let the team handle it, make it a usac/crca requirement, with real teeth in the punishment. besides, that's where the offenders are--on teams. when's the last time you heard about an unattached offender getting popped?

if you don't like the team rules & regs, don't join the team.

I don't think
By: Wooden Spork
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 6:05pm

I don't think it would be difficult to do OCTs. There should be a state by state register, like the Biological Passport. Any license holder of any rank and file would simply need to supply their home address and phone number. Yes, many people would get angry over the idea of someone coming to your home for a drug test, but it's the sport we've chosen.

I would love
By: Robin Hammer
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 5:58pm

to see more testing. I think all that whine about it haven't been in the running for a place or win. As a fairly succesful racer (many placings, many wins), I would love to know if I have been beat by dirty riders. Although just a hobby for an older dude, I would still like to stroke my ego knowing that those better have doped to be that way, or finally, once and for all, crush my over-inflated sense of self and realize those that beat me are just better. I would love to be tested after a win or place so that there wouldn't be any questions about my clesn performance or that of my peers. Without it, I have been guilty of wondering.

To test randomly out of
By: Andy Shen
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 5:51pm

To test randomly out of competition you need to know where people are in advance, so that's highly unlikely.

interesting idea
By: Wylie Brazeon
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 5:42pm

Lilian Swage 4:54 suggests USAC order out of competition testing on riders who show sudden improvement in their results, or move up multiple categories in one year. I would add that Cat 1s should be tested randomly, since they are eligible to sign a pro contract. There aren't that many of either so it should be relatively inexpensive (could be subsidized by a slight surcharge on the USAC license). I bet the possibility of being tested at any time would eliminate most doping among amateurs.

Sometimes a TSA grope is the
By: Fab (Cat) 5 Freddy
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 5:41pm

Sometimes a TSA grope is the most action I get in months.

i don't get you guys
By: no thanks
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 5:18pm

I like Dieter in general, but love him for this? Do you guys hug TSA screeners at the airport?

@Dieter
By: Wooden Spork
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 4:12pm

Dieter, I hated you ealier this year for sending me up Devil's Kitchen (in a 25 tooth ring) after 90 miles(followed by Airport Rd the next day), but love ya now for this. Keep it up. Wish more promoters did this.

The point of random testing
By: Julien Bottle
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 4:06pm

The point of random testing is prevention. A well publicized threat of a random test means anyone who shows up hot will face the possibility of a positive. You might only test 5 riders but you can prevent 50 from doping with the possibility.

So while it would be 'cool' to catch someone at Bkill, I'd rather Dieter warn off anyone taking anything so we might have a cleaner race.

yeah, seriously
By: no thanks
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 2:49pm

I can't believe you guys are all gungho about testing. you guys really don't know how to enjoy anything, do you?

why no cool? it means all
By: Maxime Bearing
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 2:46pm

why no cool? it means all the whiners and complainers who get cheated out of their 14th place can finally move up to 12th as a result of their own genetic gifts. maybe.

B Kill
By: Rinaldo Chamois
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 2:37pm

It's cool that there will be testing. Not too cool that it was announced. Could have been far more interesting had testing been a surprise.

I will simply pay for a set
By: Dieter Drake
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 12:43pm

I will simply pay for a set number of tests. USADA determines who gets tested.

Doping at Battenkill
By: Need 2 Know
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 11:52am

There's usually about 140 fields at Battenkill. It's too expensive to test all of them. Any chance you'll let us know which ones will have testing? Or should I just get a one day license and race as a 45+ Cat 5? Do Cat 5's dope too?

what about
By: no thanks
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 2:22am

if I dope and lose, does anyone care? (only half kidding)

Swweeeeeeeeeet! I like this
By: Elias Neck
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 12:36am

Swweeeeeeeeeet!

I like this non bike racing thing! Everyone's a winner!

Then you should come, not
By: Dieter Drake
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 12:35am

Then you should come, not race, and let me buy you a beer.

Dieter

What if I dope, don't
By: Elias Neck
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 12:31am

What if I dope, don't register, don't race, but still get the munchies?

If you don't dope, then you
By: Dieter Drake
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 12:19am

If you don't dope, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Enjoy the race.

Dieter

Battenkill will have doping
By: Dieter Drake
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 12:13am

Battenkill will have doping controls in April. If you dope and race, you'll get caught. If you dope and don't race, then I'm keeping your entry fee. Don't come back.

Dieter Drake
Race Director
Tour of the Battenkill

Agreed
By: Wooden Spork
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 6:48pm

The offender should pay a fine, to help offset the next test's costs.

Could NYV please update the CAPTCHA questions. I feel like I'm a part of the "omerta" when I have to answer things that are no longer true.

if its targeted, why not just
By: Tristan Topcap
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 4:58pm

if its targeted, why not just charge the offender if found guilty?

why they don't do this, i dunno. makes total sense.

I can pee
By: Lilian Swage
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 4:54pm

I'll pee in a cup, just don't expect me to do it while being watched. After I fill the cup you are free to do with it as you please. A whole bunch of you are lying to yourselves if you believe that every time you enter a race you are entering to win it. Racing is an expensive hobby. If all of these additional doping tests are going to make race fees go up, then I won't be racing any more. There is no benefit to anyone to make me, or most of the local peloton, pee in a cup. Targeted testing is what should be done. let USA cycling pay for it with the money they charge us to join the organization. Let them do some out of competition testing and that should take care of most of the problem. DA is a clear example of someone who made huge advances and surprised many with his quick progress. Most of us didn't want to think it, but it came as no surprise when it did happen.

can we speculate on how many
By: Kyllian Biopace
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 4:02pm

can we speculate on how many nyvelocity readers have engaged the services of one of the banner ads here, "fitness singles?"

if so, tell us: have you gone out on a date and talked about how to ream a head tube, or set the b-limit screw on the rear derailleur? or maybe you both just skipped the small talk and jumped right into embrocation.

As long as we are speculating
By: hater69
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 3:25pm

As long as we are speculating about the opinions of an unknown number of people. I disagree. We all signed up to pee in a cup when we got our USAC license. So I don't see a problem with some motivated people getting their shit together and making the rules we all agreed too actually get enforced.

Speaking of... Whatever happened to that five grand Champ Sys/SNT gave CRCA for testing?

majority rule
By: no thanks
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 3:52am

It seems to me that it is a very small percentage who actually want testing

Stiffler's Mother to Mengoni.
By: Kyllian Biopace
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 2:33am

Stiffler's Mother to Mengoni.

this one time, at cycling
By: the dude
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 2:16am

this one time, at cycling camp, i stuck my carbon post in my ass. it felt a lot better than this ridiculous sh!t.

@Quentin Plug
By: joshs
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 1:14am

Is it as sleazy as anonymously posting online that an entire team is sleazy for one person's misdeeds? Who defines the level of sleazy on anonymous internet postings? How long should Andy and Dan whip themselves (you all are welcome for that mental image, don't forget to picture the ball gag and the muffled screaming, too) for the sins of DA and putting their trust in someone? Terrible, human beings, aren't they? And for the record, i absolutely adore krispy kremes. And this new gypsy donut place and their salted caramel product.

The 10% Solution
By: Bartolo Ceramic
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 8:09pm

Take 10% of the prize list and use it for anti-doping and pay out 90% to the winners. This puts the cost of testing on the people who benefit the most. Also, the bigger the race, the more testing. Promoters can budget beforehand.

They were too busy eating
By: Jens Compliant
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 7:42pm

They were too busy eating Krispy Kreme's. Give 'em a break. Actually, give 'em a dozen glazed to go.

And you guys never suspected?
By: Quinten Plug
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 7:24pm

And you guys never suspected? Sleazy when your team was publicly quite pleased with his results and you are publicly the doping inquisitor.

Does becoming "pack fatter"
By: Homer
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 7:00pm

Does becoming "pack fatter" require getting jacked up on glazed or jelly donuts?

Actually
By: Wooden Spork
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 6:54pm

Some people really enjoy trying to win. I don't see the point in paying to race in order to be pack fatter on purpose. Maybe you should be downgraded until your pack fatter becomes competitive again in the Cat 5s. If you don't like "trying to be pro" ortrying to win you are welcome to one of the areas many group rides. Just know you must stop for lights and deal with guys who can't pull through.

DA was a top-ranked regular
By: Benjamin Liner
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 6:37pm

DA was a top-ranked regular on the regional competitive crochet circuit before he took up cycling. The dude could make a mean baby blanket in about 45 minutes, flat. Rumor was he was jacked up on espresso most of the time in competition, which pissed off the other (older) crowd, since that much caffeine generally gave them diarrhea. Was tough for them to compete, especially past 3 pm.

It wasn't just DA's age
By: Simon Biopace
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 6:28pm

He only started racing a few years ago and had no athletic background before that.

What Stan Cogset said is
By: Andy Shen
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 5:17pm

What Stan Cogset said is pretty much what I was told. He would've been tested that day whether he won or not.

While nice results none of
By: Vidal
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 5:11pm

While nice results none of them are other worldly. There are guys his age who are significantly better racers with much better results. Roger Aspholm to name just one.

Targeted
By: Stan Cogset
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 4:02pm

He won Battenkill as a 5/4/3 then won the TT at Tour of the Dragons and was 2nd in the GC as a Cat3 at 46 years old. You don't think that raised some eyebrows?

I got tested for positive for
By: Dirk Diggler
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 3:41pm

I got tested for positive for having Herpes Simplex drivetrain.

my ultimate goal as a bike
By: Rinaldo Chamois
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 3:35pm

my ultimate goal as a bike racer is to be asked to pee in a cup

USADA tip line. Need some
By: Nicolas Hammer
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 3:28pm

USADA tip line. Need some reasonably substantiated proof, names, dates, addresses--that sort of thing. Can't do it on innuendo alone.

Don't worry Arnie and
By: Julien Bottle
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 3:26pm

Don't worry Arnie and Lillian, no one is interested in making you pee in a cup for getting 21st in the Spring Series week after week. Its the guys winning week in and week out we're curious about.

How much does it cost to get
By: Vidal
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 3:15pm

How much does it cost to get a rider targeted? Perhaps team sponsorship is best used to eliminate rivals.

Can you explain what you are
By: Hamza Seattube
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 3:02pm

Can you explain what you are talking about Andy when you say he was targeted? He was tested after he won his age group at the NY Gran Fondo, same as the other age category winners and overall men's and women's 1 through 5 winners. Although executed by USADA, this testing was bought and paid for by the Gran Fondo.

What part of that is being targeted?

Agree 100% with Lillian below
By: Arne Liner
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 1:19am

Agree 100% with Lillian below - amateur racing should be fun. I don't particularly care about the mid-life crisis doper either - it's just sad and pathetic. Plus, for me, it's not worth the risk I might test positive for some tainted sports drink or cold medicine or something. Just having to pay attention to all that shit just sucks the fun right out of it.

By Vidal Sassoon or USADA? If
By: Diego Liner
Sun, 12/02/2012 - 4:44pm

By Vidal Sassoon or USADA?

If USADA, Calvin Klein must've been behind the tip-off, because DA is so hot and if Calvin can't have him, nobody can.

I was just informed I was
By: Andy Shen
Sun, 12/02/2012 - 1:10pm

I was just informed I was wrong, he was targeted.

DA got popped by Vidal
By: Diego Liner
Sun, 12/02/2012 - 4:56am

DA got popped by Vidal Sassoon because he looks so good.

DA got popped at the Gran
By: Andy Shen
Sun, 12/02/2012 - 4:22am

DA got popped at the Gran Fondo 'cause he didn't know they were only timing the climbs. If he did the climbs slower he wouldn't have been caught. USADA had no information on DA that would lead them to target test him.

Virtually all USADA tests for
By: Romain Lorica
Sat, 12/01/2012 - 9:08pm

Virtually all USADA tests for amateurs are targeted. DA did not get popped by chance.

furthermore
By: no thanks
Sat, 12/01/2012 - 6:18pm

all of you going apeshit over the upgrade changes are also taking it and yourselves way too seriously

On the plus side, if there is
By: Threadlock
Fri, 11/30/2012 - 2:45pm

On the plus side, if there is a long line for the toilet after a race, the opportunity to relieve yourself at a drug test can provide some additional incentive to win!

+1 to lillian
By: no thanks
Fri, 11/30/2012 - 2:18pm

Exactly! Couldn't agree more, and I would bet we are a majority.

ain't happening
By: Lilian Swage
Fri, 11/30/2012 - 2:07pm

I don't care what my USA cycling license agreement says, I ain't going to pee while some lab coated tech watches. It's unrealistic to think most people will do that. Most local racers are in the sport to have fun. They are not looking to score the big pro contract. If race fees went up $10 per race to cover doping tests, I would probably just stop racing. I don't see dope tests having any benefit to me. If the next over weight masters racer wants to shoot up EPO to beat me in a local week night training race, I really don't care. It's nice to get results after working hard to gain fitness, but that's not the main reason I race. The doper is just cheating himself and risking his health. Doing a doping test on a masters racer is just a waste of time and money and will alienate many racers. When the cost of testing is so high, you need to do some smart targeting of who will get tested.

John C, you make some good
By: Wave Ring Chamois
Fri, 11/30/2012 - 7:16am

John C, you make some good points, and it is a nice sentiment - but the very fact that you are proposing in competition means that anybody who wants to avoid testing can. If you are on the program, you know very well when you are clear to race and potentially get tested.

It is no problem whatsoever to time your races. Look into out of competition testing.

Sorry, that's just the way it is.

yes, if it isn't done it
By: Diego Liner
Fri, 11/30/2012 - 12:11am

yes, if it isn't done it won't cost a thing. what a bargain!

cost effective
By: Maxim Bushing
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 10:41pm

Is there a way to redesign the test to make it more cost effective?

Is "Just Sayin'" the new
By: Matheo Sealant
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 7:15pm

Is "Just Sayin'" the new passive aggressive nya-nya-nya-nya-nya?

... needs a job
By: Deigo Headset
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 7:09pm

Just saying

geez...reading comprehension much?
By: no thanks
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 5:40pm

I didn't say it was an epidemic. Actually, if you were paying attention, I am AGAINST testing. I don't want to "feel pro." You're arguing against your own side, broseph.

No Thanks, I'm not attempting
By: ...
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 11:34am

No Thanks,

I'm not attempting to be analogous, I'm looking at this practically. Yes it involves the same sport, but your position presupposes a level of knowledge of one another that simply doesn't meet reality. Most of us can't say with certainty what family members are doing; how many folks have learned about an affair, or substance abuse of someone close to them and been shocked? Now you want individuals who (mostly arbitrarily) where the same jersey as another to take responsibility for each others morality in the many many many (almost every) hour that they're not together? To what end? David Anthony wouldn't have doped if he knew it would hurt Dan and Andy? Uh. Duh. It did. That it would should have been obvious. But the truth is that for a guy jacked up in the head enough to cheat at park races he doesn't care about his teammates (who he may or may not be friends with). He probably doesn't even consider the repercussions to his friends. It's clear that the laundry list if pros who lied to the faces of their family and friends didn't. So you're asking me to place my trust in sons gut who is a friend if a friend, who I've had a team dinner, a couple of training rides, and I'll race with 20 times this season. And I say bulkshit. He could be burying bodies in his basement, selling smack, doing epo. Or he may be a Rhodes scholar. I have no idea. End of the day as long as he doesn't chase me down when I'm off the front that's about the high bar for city park races. So no, I'm not interested in pretending this is a local epidemic so you can feel pro. If things get to the point where there's testing I'll pee in a cup, though its clear the tests only catch the really stupid. But if you're saying that there should be punishment laid out for multitudes based on the actions of one explain to be how it works in a club the size of crc, and if other large clubs will get their juniors and women suspended based on the actions of some agro 2. I'll watch from the sidelines at that point because the shark will have been jumped. Most guys don't even know what's on the wada list. I'm sure not going to place my trust in the morality or reading comprehension of guys I don't know very well.

Mmmmmm donuts.
By: Paul Cable
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 9:22pm

Mmmmmm donuts.

Whoever said eatin' ain't
By: Bryan Liner
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 9:17pm

Whoever said eatin' ain't cheatin'!

We'll never know, the
By: schmalz
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 8:58pm

We'll never know, the proctologist didn't survive.

It is certainly cheating but,
By: Bryan Liner
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 7:51pm

It is certainly cheating but, reality check, it is cheating in low-level amateur racing in the park.

After his BH teammate was
By: Paul Cable
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 7:34pm

After his BH teammate was busted, I heard Schmalz was subject to testing by a USADA-designated proctologist. One can only wonder what was discovered, what songs were sung, that sort of thing.

so apparently
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 7:33pm

teams deserve the praise to be shared around, but none of the blame

and it's cheating in the sport you participate in with them
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 7:32pm

that we are discussing. If you really think you're analogy makes any sense whatsoever, than I don't think I will continue to argue with you.

funny
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 7:31pm

do you share your winnings?

ok, how bout 2 people?

Article 11 of the WADA Code states the following:

Where more than one team member in a team sport has been notified of a possible anti-doping rule violation the team shall be subject to target testing for the event. If more than one team member in a team sport is found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation during the event, the team may be subject to disqualification or other disciplinary action.

Shared responsibility worked
By: Bryan Liner
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 7:13pm

Shared responsibility worked for the Stalin and Mao. Why not for park racers?

What do you do if you see
By: Mathis Tarmac
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 6:33pm

What do you do if you see your teammate walking out of a massage parlor, tell his wife?

Come on people! Don't ask, don't tell!

It's really not different.
By: ...
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 6:14pm

It's really not different. You're just choosing to look at it through a particular lens that supports your argument. The idea presupposes an element of knowledge or control about the actions of others that simply doesn't exist. I don't even have contact info for most of the guys who wear the same jersey as me. I'm now going to be subject to a suspension because one of these guys decides to dope? And how would one know if their teammates dope? Is it by the syringe hanging from their thigh when climbing Bear, or are we just supposed to wag fingers at everyone who is fast?

And what of CRCA or other larger clubs. Is all of CRCA suspended if one of the riders fails a test? Or are these new proposed rules only for sub teams?

Rather than helping the sport this is the kind of crap that will ruin any sense of trust or camaraderie.

Drug test? sure. Longer suspensions? absolutely. But when you start arbitrarily assigning blame to folks who have no control you've sniffed a bit too much tubular glue, or haven't been in the sport long enough. A guy who is willing to dope does not care about his teammates. The idea that it would serve as a deterrent is silly.

Being fit is now bad for my health...?
By: David Blume
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 5:48pm
plus
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 5:41pm

it's nothing like your analogy. one has nothing to do with the activity and one is directly related. please. this was a good discussion til now

pro teams don't....
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 5:40pm

yes, and see how that is working out for them? The way to stop it is to be ostracized. You won't get a contract if you dope, because you screwed other people. And actually you are wrong. That is the part that works. Sponsors pull out. Of the guys who have written openly about it (millar and hamilton) this was the biggest deterrent. I'm not saying that bh never gets to race again. But if the whole team is suspended for a week than you can bet people are going to think about that when weighing the odds. And, c'mon, that isn't such a big deal. And neither is riding unattached.

If I have to be responsible
By: ...
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 4:32pm

If I have to be responsible for a bunch of guys I see for a couple of hours a week I'll go back to riding unattached.

It's like bowling on a team and being penalized because one of the guys is dealing drugs, or breaks some other law.

You guys are getting ridiculous. Pro teams don't even have such penalties.

Some drugs help with races
By: Richard Wood
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 4:00pm

Some drugs help with races lasting longer than 4 hours.

To no thanks
By: Quentin Cable
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 3:58pm

Ask Lisbon.

It depends on what you are taking
By: Wooden Spork
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 3:38pm

Our races may be short, but I think the right kind of drug is certainly enough to affect results. You train with the drug year round and it will make you faster on race day even somehing as short as a CRCA race.

ask pulla
By: Tristan Headset
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 3:34pm

ask pulla

a serious question about this.
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 4:28am

This may be naive....but after reading Tyler hamilton's excellent book it got me to thinking....would doping even help in our races? Most of them are very short, and there certainly aren't 3 week tours. Seems like that is where most of the benefit occurred. I would suggest requesting the podium of a few longer races voluntarily submit samples, with it being public knowledge if one declined to do so ((paid for with a 1-2 dollar surcharge at those races)

why not skip all the expense
By: the dude
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 4:14am

why not skip all the expense of having a usada person fly out from god knows where, and the expense that apparently comes from chain of custody b.s., and simply contract the job out like most jobs in this country today? in other words, just have Labcorp or whatnot do it. i doubt it'd cost more than $500 bucks for them to have a technician come out and take samples.

there is testing
By: no thanks
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 3:34am

that clearly doesn't deter. DA was busted at an event that said there would be testing. What happened to the deterrent effect? And yes, punish the team. I love BH, I have good friends on the team, but teams should be closer than they are now. Too many play to pay teams (also causing the sport to be more dangerous, IMHO, which is a much more important concern than who is doping). Maybe not a huge penalty, but enough to make it mean something. The trick is to have us police each other. All testing will do is confirm that it is going on. Again, pros haven't figured out how to get rid of this problem yet, us throwing a couple grand at it isn't going to do it.

Quick follow up
By: Ryan
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 9:15pm

To clarify, I certainly don't mean do away with testing. I just mean that if we're going to ask amateur cyclists to throw down even more of their hard earned money on some not-for profit scheme to benefit the sport, they should see some benefit to themselves. Hell, if you're really stoked on funding anti-dope testing, go ahead and contribute to USAC or USADA, where the money will actually go to police those who have the most to gain and lose from cheating.

I see your point with high school athletes, though I suspect it's a false comparison. There's so much more at stake with varsity high school sports, be it scholarships, a way out of some dead end town, or even simple popularity, that the pressure to perform is much higher than the 15-18 year old class at your local cross race.

somewhat agree
By: Wooden Spork
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 9:04pm

I somewhat agree. I think things like Velodromes should be built and need greater funding. However, the doping aspect must still be addressed. Is it overly expensive, YES. Is education enough, certainly not. The number of kids (mostly in high school) who take PEDs for other sports is staggering. Education about the effects of it are likely not to deter everyone. By the way, in 2007 Jared Bunde was caught and he is a track riding machine clean or dirty.

It's a good impulse...
By: Ryan
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 8:48pm

but I think the crowd sourced amateur doping effort is sort of misguided. If our goal is to percolate up to the pro ranks, why only target "career" amateurs, who have no shot at making it there?

If we're really hoping to contribute to a cleaner, safer, more functional pro racing scene, it seems like there are many more constructive ways to apply our funds. For example, doping education programs for juniors so they fully understand the consequences of PEDs, investing in cycling infrastructure like velodromes or permanent 'cross courses, etc.

Clearly, the purely punitive model of anti-doping doesn't do much to change to culture, and if an amateur only makes it to the pro ranks by doping for all the local races, he/she will probably not have a very long or successful career anyway. It might be more effective on creating positive opportunities to get involved with the sport, and making sure the next generation of talented young amateurs enter the pro ranks with their heads on straight.

@Caveman
By: Wooden Spork
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 8:43pm

@Caveman

You may be right to a large extent (I could probably count all of the current NYC/NJ pros on my fingers), but there are many who dream of the chance to go pro. As lofty as it may seem. It is these riders that create the issue. My personal goal is certainly not a pro contract, but I do want to get my Cat 1. I may never be a pro, but would like to ride for a domestic elite team doing the coolest races I'm allowed to be in around the country. I figure that is the closest I will ever get to feeling like a pro. Many of these races require a Cat 1 license. In that effort every result is important and likewise important to someone else who may be cheating. It's a fun battle to get to that point and I want to be doing it against even competition.

So when you question why the amateur ranks need the testing I use this reason for throwing my support behind it. Others may not have the same emotions about it as me and that's fine, but this is what drives my support of the program.

John, have you read the TUE form?
By: Tristan Drainhole
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 7:53pm

In case you didn't notice, your doctor has to hand over a bunch of stuff, like medical records, lab results, exam notes, why the doctor prescribed you something?

I get it, clean sport is great, but for amateurs to subject diagnoses made with their personal doctors to review by a panel? I'm sorry that's over a line. There's a line that needs to be drawn between what is required of professionals and amateurs, and the release of one's medical history and reliance on his/her personal physician is way on the professional side of that line.

Punish the entire team, how?
By: ...
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 7:05pm

Punish the entire team, how?

Should Dan, and Andy, and Pascal et al. be suspended?

It's an interesting concept, but am I willing to get 'in trouble' because I wear the same kit as some guy I barely know and race with a dozen times a year? Another good idea, but one that's pretty difficult to enforce. We don't spend the time training, commuting, racing, sharing housing that pros do.

Punish the entire team, how?
By: ...
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 7:05pm

Punish the entire team, how?

Should Dan, and Andy, and Pascal et al. be suspended?

It's an interesting concept, but am I willing to get 'in trouble' because I wear the same kit as some guy I barely know and race with a dozen times a year? Another good idea, but one that's pretty difficult to enforce. We don't spend the time training, commuting, racing, sharing housing that pros do.

please forgive my typo's
By: Thomas Brakepad
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:51pm

I have fat caveman fingers.

grounded
By: Thomas Brakepad
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:50pm

I'm sorry if this sounds naive but is doping at the level we're talkig about really a big enough problem that it needs to have thoudands of dollars thrown at it? I know that a few locals have been busted recently and nobody is happy about the whole thing. But that's not what I'm referring to. What I mean is...

We are all simple cavemen. None of us have a real chance at anything beyond local "fame" Yeah, yeah Hincapie is from NYC and others as well have "made it". But the bottom line is that this is a past-time we do for fun, for our health or for similar personal reasons. There's no maney (or anything else of real value) to be made doing what we do. None of us are important enough to take this subject so seriously.

Correct. Apologies for
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:49pm

Correct. Apologies for confusion. See Section 5 here:
http://www.usada.org/tue-policy/

As an aside, USADA has a hotline available to check medications. And the process is relatively painless:
http://www.usada.org/tue-apply

I had a wicked case of poison
By: Itchy Ballz
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:32pm

I had a wicked case of poison ivy this past summer, and the steroids the doc gave me to help beat it....oh YEAH i was flying up Harlem Hill like never before. Bring on the ivy and the TUE come CRCA champs time!

I'm in favor. We ride pro
By: Wylie Brazeon
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:24pm

I'm in favor. We ride pro looking bikes, wear pro-looking kits, some of us have SRMs and fancy carbon wheels, so why not have pro drug testing? Only being partly facetious. Doping is cheating, no less than cutting through the middle of the park would be. And it's been proven that a certain percentage of local racers aren't clean. if it costs another $5 per race, it's worth it.

But yeah, only performance enhancing drugs, please, not THC. that's just dumb. And make it easy to get a waiver from your inhaler/cortisone shots etc.

Retroactive TUE
By: Baptiste Plug
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:19pm

There's one bit of misleading information up here. John, you suggest that you can get a retroactive TUE (therapeutic use exception) if you test positive for a banned substance and are not a national level athlete. In fact, that policy only applies if you test positive for substances banned for use in-competition. Substances banned for in and out of competition use require a TUE in advance. Thus, for example, If a cat. 4 or 5 masters athlete is using testosterone gel to bring T levels to normal for his age (gel is banned for out of competition), he must get a TUE in advance.

Of course, use of such substances to bring T levels to higher levels constitutes cheating and it would be good to find ways to bust people for it. But right now the TUE process is pretty involved and there's no process for non-elite athletes to apply for retroactive TUE's for out-of-competition banned substances. Given this I'm not sure it helps the sport to test non-elite athletes and require them to undergo the sort of extensive TUE process required in order to avoid the risk of being labeled a "doper" for just following their doctor's orders.

I get what you guys are
By: Andy Shen
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:12pm

I get what you guys are saying, surprise out of competition testing would be best. But considering that it takes EPO a few days to clear the system, and that there are races here almost 5 days a week, it would be a real pain in the ass to make sure you're in the clear every time you start a race. It's no guarantee but it would have an impact I think.

Do you think most amateurs
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 6:12pm

Do you think most amateurs have the resources to beat tests?

Is a multi year sanction for an amateur a sufficient penalty?

What we're proposing would be in addition to the testing that USADA currently conducts, much of which is out of competition.

In my experience, surprise in-competition testing has a pretty good track record for catching people as someone below mentioned.

I disagree. The current situation is that no testing occurs. There are no deterrents. I'm reasoning that with more deterrents, you will see people reconsidering their decision to dope. Sure, some will continue to invest a lot of time and money trying to figure out when and where tests will occur, and how to defeat those tests. But some deterrent is better than no deterrent.

But we can agree to disagree. What do you think would work?

+1
By: no thanks
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 5:58pm

to what gg said.

The premise is flawed. Sporadic in competition testing with little ramifications will discourage very few dopers. Pros haven't figured out a way around this problem, throwing a little cash at it certainly won't solve it.

This is the Smart Dopers
By: Galleazzo Grips
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 5:47pm

This is the Smart Dopers dream plan - testing will be minimal and only in competition. Dopers who know what they are doing will not be caught and will gain false credibility of being clean.
Haven't you read enough about athlete's passing tests while benefiting from doping? Do you really believe that this was because of a UCI conspiracy?

In favor but please, no THC
By: Jeff Spicoli
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 5:22pm

In favor but please, no THC testing

And in other news. Just off
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 4:55pm

And in other news. Just off the phone with USAC.

USAC is offering to match funds from local associations up to $6000, and is exploring ways for USAC to be the recipient of the funds with regional earmarks (instead of the LAs). This addresses the central need I mentioned above -- of keeping the bureaucracy and redundancy to a minimum, and having some standards. It also makes it easier on the local associations as they could choose not to have to create distinct accounts, and oversee those donations, only to simply pass along the money.

This was in response to numerous local associations exploring the option of purchasing testing. Some will opt to use the association funds (and that will involve some debate, consensus), others may extend the additional option of voluntarily donating to the fund.

Visit:
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 4:07pm

Visit: http://www.usada.org/tue-determine/

1. Determine your athlete category.
2. Note the rules in place depending on whether the substance is banned in or out of competition

I for example would be considered a Level 2 athlete. So would many of us. Consult here for an overview of the process for Level 2 athletes:
http://www.usada.org/uploads/level%202%20tue.pdf

You'll notice that the rules are fairly forgiving and accommodating for Level 2 athletes, including what is known as the "retroactive TUE" process. USADA isn't out to create unrealistic hurdles for amateur, non national level athletes.

For amateurs you can get a
By: Andy Shen
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 3:59pm

For amateurs you can get a prescription retroactively, so you don't have to do anything in advance.

John on a serious note, what
By: Xander Wave Ring
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 3:35pm

John on a serious note, what does one do if they have asthma or are on some potentially prohibited meds but don't think twice about the implications for cycling doping tests (meaning, health is more paramount than bike stuff)? Like a shot of cortisone to deal with bad joint issues, or an inhaler to get through the day without falling over gasping or air? Do you have to get a TUE from a doctor covering each med? If so, what a headache, but if that's what it takes I guess them's the rules.

You pay
By: Pay Pal
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 3:33pm

Why don't we just ask David Anthony to make the payments. he should have lots of extra cash laying around now that he's not doping any more. If he doesn't pay for the tests, maybe he hasn't stopped doping.

Reading these comments, I'm
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 3:23pm

Reading these comments, I'm seeing a trend.

Lots of people resent the agro type A aspect of road racing. There are a lot of tools. They make the sport dirty in their own way, and not fun. Anyone who has showed up at a race and seen someone arguing with their spouse in the parking lot, or shouting at a race, or acting like an all-around douche can relate. A friend recently talked about riding 5hrs a day during their family vacation. Sounds fun for his wife right?

I can see how a lot of people equate what I'm doing with the clean ride fund to something that contingent would do ... a witch hunt, preserve their 24th place in the Cat 4 crit, taking it "way too seriously". And I'll be honest, there are people who have talked to me in support of the plan who represent that mentality. I respect their intensity, but I worry like the rest of you (hence wanting USAC to coordinate a sensible policy with local associations). In the balance, those guys scare me more than dopers. Seriously.

I see it very differently. To me it just isn't a big deal. It is just part of the sport. Something that happens ... like junior gear roll outs. "Oh yeah, they tested, no big deal". So anyway, I get where you are coming from because I share a lot of the same revulsion. Something like this can't fuel douch-baggery. And that is where USAC comes in.

Seriously, if your identity
By: Xander Wave Ring
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 3:08pm

Seriously, if your identity is so wrapped up in wanting to stand on a podium in a Cat 2-5 amateur crit, road race, etc., then you've probably got bigger issues.

Those who are doping to get there, well, they've certainly got bigger issues. Like gravy blood.

Good discussion here
By: HIHIHIHIHIHIHI
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 3:01pm

For me, no being able to race for 2 years likely would have a profound affect on my mental state. But of course that's me and my personality, which doesn't represent anyone else.

The few times people have been tested around NYC someone has been caught (nearly every year). When you stand on the podium as a Cat 1,2,3,4 or 5 it still feels like you've achieved something monumental on the day. Why should the person who took second clean be robbed of that experience. What makes that experience so special is often not the prize money, but personal achievement. This goes for any race big or small.

little to lose as well.
By: no thanks
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 2:59am

what's the penalty? no more racing? that's not much of a deterrent. If this is going to happen, please penalize the entire team as well.

fwiw, I don't wholly disagree with you and am enjoying the non contentious debate.

"You say they hardly ever
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 2:27am

"You say they hardly ever show up and don't seem to catch anyone, so....what are we gaining exactly?"

I said that the tests would be infrequent because they are expensive. But infrequent testing still creates a deterrent. A good analogy would be drunk driving checkpoints. They don't happen often, but the knowledge they might happen deters many people from drunk driving. Pros have high rewards for cheating. Amateurs typically do not. So it would reason that amateurs would be more deterred by the prospect of being tested. At the moment (almost) no testing occurs, and therefore no deterrent exists.

As for precious bodily fluids go ...

you're gaining the
By: Axel Dry Lube
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 2:27am

you're gaining the satisfaction that your 37th place in a cat 4 crit was legitimately earned. congrats!

I have
By: no thanks
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 2:15am

zero to hide, nothing, nada, bupkus, but will quit on principle if this happens. call me crazy, just way too invasive. I don't care if they never test me, I am not ceding the right to my precious bodily fluid. After a stupid 2 days on facebook where everyone is worried about privacy, it strikes me as funny that people are eager to allow someone this kind of access....for what exactly? You say they hardly ever show up and don't seem to catch anyone, so....what are we gaining exactly?

I'm all for racing for the
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 1:47am

I'm all for racing for the experience. I rode a 'cross bike for half the road season with the clunkiest pair of training wheels. And I didn't sweat it. Not worth worrying about. I'm a frickin' Cat 3 Fred! But ...

Are amateurs immune to the health consequences?

In Florida you had masters racers leaving the sport because they were suddenly not competitive for no apparent reason. Once the Florida Clean Ride Fund was established, the racing scene changed noticeably and those riders returned. That is a good thing no?

All pros pass through the amateur category system, often as juniors. Would you want want of those juniors leaving the sport because they were knocked off the podium at Battenkill by a doping master? Also, wouldn't it send a good early message to those riders who had higher aspirations?

I think the mental block here is that we associate testing with being "pro", when it is actually there for amateurs and pros alike. It just isn't a big deal. USADA shows up every once and while at an event and tests. There have been 0 issues in Florida where it happened this season.

eddie murks
By: no thanks
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 1:25am

ha, I just wanted to rewrite that name. brilliant. I know it's unpopular, and, no...definitely not into participation stickers, that is a leap. Still have winners and podiums, but that should be enough, no? None of this clamoring for results and pictures an hour after the race ends, just race for the experience, for the (gasp) fun of it. What exactly is wrong with that? The supposed main reason to not have pros dope is due to health consequences and the possibility that children will emulate them. Those negatives don't exact for dudes rolling around a park at 6 am.

my bona fides - i played varsity collegiate sports (two of them). I LOVE competition. Pros be pros, amateurs have fun.

deemphasize winning at races?
By: Eddie Murks
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 1:04am

deemphasize winning at races? what r u, a communist? do you want to hand out smiley stickers for participation in the greater good? racing, generally, is a contest to see who wins. you win, or you don't. first wrap your head around that concept, then get back to us on how best to proceed. thanks.

I appreciate the sentiment....
By: no thanks
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 12:54am

HOWEVER!

Really, I do appreciate the thought behind this, and am happy to agree to disagree, but IMHO it is exactly the opposite approach that I think should be taken. Amateur races shouldn't care one lick who is doping. Obviously, it shouldn't be encouraged, but personally I could care less if I come in 4th, just out of the money, and the 3 dudes who beat me are doped to the gills. Ya know what? There shouldn't even be money for winners. We need to deemphasize winning. That is what will stop people from doping.

Agree 100%. Personally, I
By: JohnPCutler
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 12:41am

Agree 100%. Personally, I don't judge people at all for caring / not caring about doping on the amateur level. People have legitimate reasons for not caring, and some of those people are the most serious riders around. That is why I'm advocating for a voluntary donation scheme.

As for being in the "pro test" crowd, I just have a hard time understanding how giving USAC / USADA more funds to enforce the rules can be a bad thing.

And ... to your point, I think it would be also fair to mention that not everyone who cares fits the stereotype of the agro, seething, Type A, ideologue .

Mystery person. Honestly I
By: John Cutler
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:35pm

Mystery person. Honestly I just got tired of people complaining. I haven't given doping too much thought. Ever. I don't lose sleep at night wondering about who is doing what. Even if I knew people beating me were doping, I wouldn't lose any sleep. It bothers a lot of people but not me. What I did see is people complaining and doing nothing.

Your response is the exact reason I wrote this op-Ed. This shouldn't be about you mentioning me by name of all people. USAC has rules that it (almost) never enforces. Rules that it could enforce with very infrequent tests using a structure that worked in Florida this season with zero incident. This is not complicated nor is it big personal crusade. It is about Infrequent testing enforcing the rules of the sport.

If USAC decided tomorrow to raise dues by $2 and test more often would you be complaining ? You would probably never notice. Anyway. Sorry this is bummer for you.

As it stands you have enough USAC riders who do care and are willing to donate. You don't need to donate or care. USADA is being contacted by local associations all around the country. USADA are meeting with USAC to come up with a uniform policy. If anything I'm writing here to make people aware that it is happening and encourage them to come up with something simple and easy for riders, local associations, and promoters.

I woke up feeling pukey, not
By: trying to remain positive
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:34pm

I woke up feeling pukey, not quirky. Clearly the job hunt was going to have to be put off until I feel better, which, after two tall cans of PBR, I sort of do. I only puked but once, outside, and it was mostly diet ginger ale. The good news is i think i've finally managed to quit smoking, or at least cut way down. The bad news is our basement flooded and for a week i've had to take my wizzes out in the yard until the plumber shows up (not until thursday). If Dan or Andy have any suggestions I'm open, except for plyometrics. Stomach is jumpy enough without being jumpy. As for testing, let the Masters level racers who make over $100,000 a year finance all the testing, as it would equate to maybe another expensive wheelset

My point exactly
By: Some dude you know.
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:17pm

Funny how the pro test crowd is very quick to rationalize differing view points as being those of 'lesser riders' who are simply "competing at a lower level" or "enjoy being packfill" or are "doing the gran Fondo's". Seriously, think about HOW you think not just what you think.

But I guess it is easier than accepting that maybe that the guy to you left at the start is clean, AND thinks you are a self deluded twit, AND sometimes still beats you, WHILE not giving a hang if someone is on the juice.

Whatever works for you.

Its too convenient to believe that everyone who beats you might be cheating, and that anyone who doesn't really care about dopers is just not serious or training/racing hard/often. And it doesn't fix anything.

Seriously these conversations are just like talking to a wall except half as productive.

clearly
By: HIHIHIHIHIHIHI
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 10:31pm

Clearly you don't care that much about the sport you're in. I'm happy to have people like you out of the sport. For those of us dedicating time, money and effort (becuase we love it, live it, etc) it is perfectly necessary to have new policies in place. It's tough racing all season long, trying hard to get good results. It will be nice to not have to wonder if the rider with the massive solo breakaway was clean or not. I've seen cheaters locally and it's depressing knowing you're racing against them. On the Pro level it's sad knowing that guys I idolized in high school were not who they claimed to be.

If it doesn't bother you at all than I'm impressed. Maybe you're competing at a lower level where it doesn't matter as much. Maybe you're a bit tired and just enjoy being packfill or doing the gran Fondo's. That's ok. For some of us we enjoy the competition, but only if it's fair. I've put way to many years into this sport to be surpassed by some guy cheating. Even if it's one guy out of 10,000 or a close friend.

The more I read.
By: Some dude you know.
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 9:39pm

The less I want to race. I get OK results, not great but OK (hell you've beat me in plenty of races last season). Honestly I don't care who dopes, I don't think about it, never have. And now that I think about it, I don't care that much about "the sport" either.

And why should I care about million dollar athletes/entertainers? The UCI is WWE on bikes, but wrapped up in some bogus notion of tradition, which Pro Wrestling is unburdened by (WWE 1 / UCI 0). Nor do I care about the sanctimonious amateurs who demand some impractical standard of sporting purity, for its own sake.

Frankly the more I read from people who allegedly do "care" and want to save cycling from itself, the more I want to disassociate from them. Good riddance you say? Whatever.

I do care about having fun, riding bikes is fun, racing is fun. This ain't fun. I have other hobbies, and I'll probably invest more time in them and less in racing bikes. If only to be away from all unbearable people in the amateur ranks of this sport.

Think about this, the tenor of the doping discussion has only lead to more suspicion and division, and the branding anyone who doesn't subscribe to this group-think as "suspicious". I don't see that outcome improving anything for anyone. Honestly the cure seems way worse than the disease.

John I've met you plenty of times, you are a nice guy but in this case you are also an impossibly huge bummer, who has missed the boat, and is determined that everyone else drown under a tidal wave of bureaucratic suck.

So in brief, no thanks bro.

@JohnPCutler
By: HIHIHIHIHIHIHI
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 8:44pm

John, perhaps you could impose a rule stating that any race with a prize above a certain amount will be tested, if the funding is available. The Fort Lee Crit had a prize worth $3,000 for the winner. That's a lot of money for a local race. I would rather see a $1,000 prize and the remaining $2,000 go to testing the podium.

i'm going to protest drug
By: Evan Rubber Hood
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 8:27pm

i'm going to protest drug testing by racing for last place.

options ...
By: JohnPCutler
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 8:21pm

You have an option right? You can not worry about any of it, and then in the off chance you are tested, and test positive for something, and can't get a retroactive TUE (this process is in place for amateurs, not pros), you'll receive some kind of sanction. But you'll have a clear conscience and will tell all your friends about accidentally taken a supplement. And they'll all understand right?

You increase your chance of being tested by getting good results, and if you're getting good results, you ostensibly care more about the sport, and perhaps even care that it is fair. You probably also race more, and spend a considerable about of money on this amateur grassroots hobby.

When you sign up for your USA Cycling license, you agree to submit to testing if it occurs. It just never occurs. What we are proposing is doing enough testing on the local level to create a deterrent. The economies of the testing dictate that wont happen frequently.

So I guess I'm saying ... you could easily ignore this, stay off the podium, and go on your merry way. And even if you were tested, and tested positive, and couldn't get a retroactive TUE, then apparently you are casual enough about the sport that you wouldn't mind a couple month sanction.

I like the guy who complains
By: Pot vs. Kettle
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 7:31pm

I like the guy who complains about other people whining about training, traveling, losing to cheaters, etc. and then turns around and whines about getting doctors notes, or not racing WHEN HE'S SICK and on Sudafed, etc.

Nice.

And people who care...
By: Thomas Biopace
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 7:19pm

Can just make a stupid hobby into something that takes even more time for something that's not enjoyable.

I'm sick and tired of you "test my local office park crit" people whining about "how hard it is to train for this sport, and how much of a pain it is to drive to the race, and how much it sucks that the guys who beat me might be doping."

If you don't enjoy the work, enjoy the drive, and just enjoy the thrill of racing for it's own sake, I'm sorry, but don't ruin the sport for the rest of us. Don't make me go to my doctor and get a bunch of notes and TUEs for my asthma medication. Don't make me stay home because, hey I have a cold, but I like racing, and I'm on sudafed so, oh, I can't this weekend.

It's a hobby, and sure it's a feeder for the upper levels, but if we're worried about that, fix the upper levels and leave my sport that I love for its grassroots amateurism alone.

I am just a weekend warrior looking for a keep fit sport
By: Weekend Warrior
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 6:37pm

I don't want to spend more than the $20-45 I spend to do local races every year to keep fit, plus the travelling cost is getting more expensive every year to compete in out of state races. I am an avid supporter of the sport who renews his USA cycling license every year but can't afford to pay more to keep the cheaters out of events. I enter every race with the preceived notion that all of my peers came prepared naturally and didn't induce any banned substances. How about we start by making all local Northeast region racers sign an oath that they will abide to the rules and if caught cheating at any events they will no longer compete in any US cycling sanctioned events.

nostalgia
By: JohnPCutler
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 6:15pm

I don't think cycling has "come" to this. It has always been dirty to an extent. If you take a broad perspective, the "doping culture" was always in effect, but then escalated exponentially once drugs addressing the aerobic nature of the of the sport came into play (epo).

If people people keep white-washing the sport, and clinging to nostalgia, I don't think we'll ever be able to make positive changes. Again, keep in mind that the plan suggested above focuses on creating a deterrent through infrequent testing (testing more often would be too expensive). So I'd prefer to focus on where cycling is going, rather than clinging to what we think -- and were often mistaken -- it was.

I can not believe that
By: Lucas Dry Lube
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 6:09pm

I can not believe that cycling has come to this. It is so sad.

If you get USACycling
By: Guido Rubber Hood
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 4:23pm

If you get USACycling involved you will more than double the administrative costs.

voluntary
By: JohnPCutler
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 4:08pm

While working on the MId-Atlantic Clean Ride Fund proposal, I was insistant that the donations be purely voluntary. Others disagree and advocate mandatory donations. My reasoning was that if you make the donations voluntary, then you don't get mired in the "I want my money to go to kid's cycling instead" discussions. People who care, can donate. If you don't, then don't.

Not against testing, but have
By: Baptiste Steerer
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 3:49pm

Not against testing, but have zero interest in paying a dime more for our already too expensive sport.

I work hard to ride the best
By: frank c
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 3:16pm

I work hard to ride the best I can. If some d-bag beats me in a race BC he chooses to do something illegal then he should be reprimanded. If someone cut a course you would want them busted for cheating. So why not doping? You're already req'd to pee in a cup of give blood through the contract you have with USA Cycling. The funding just helps USADA do their job.

no renewing ...
By: JohnPCutler
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 3:11pm

The reality is that if you aren't podium-ing races, you will rarely get tested. If you look at the price tag, you'll see that it would be impossible to test everyone. So, if you are WINNING races, and would still not renew your USA Cycling license to avoid getting tested ... well that shows how much you care about the sport I guess.

Nope
By: Quentin Chamois
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 3:03pm

If, as an amateur racer, I have to start thinking about peeing in a cup or giving blood before I start pedaling, then I'm just going to stop renewing my USACycling license.

Instead of something
By: Arnaud Lorica
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 2:59pm

Instead of something expensive like testing, can't we just set up a hotline?

I don't think costs are the tests alone
By: Aki
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 2:56pm

I believe a lot of the costs have to do with the travel costs and such. You need at least one person running the testing, they might get housed overnight before the event, and the samples have to follow some particular chain of custody. I think the samples have to be couriered - think about how much it would cost to courier a bottle or two of beer from wherever you are to a medical lab that's accredited by USADA.

I asked a USADA rep some of these questions but don't remember specific details on the answers.

The tests come out to $600 per sample. That's less than what it cost for me to walk into an ER with a dog bite in September (just clean up and check wounds - no stitches, they gave me one antibiotic pill for the evening, and they didn't even use a fancy skin cover, just a gauze pad).

If you've ever seen the expenses just to have USAC officials at a race (fee + travel) you'll be surprised how much it costs to have some officials at some races. One official, at a race where I could peek at the expenses, I think cost the promoter something like $200 in travel expenses alone.

To test for everything they claim to test for, including testing both blood and urine samples, checking for EPO etc, $600 seems like a reasonable price. That's if they test for everything. If not... well, then it's not really good.

I may be all wrong but this is my understanding. I welcome any info regarding this.

I smoke two joints before I
By: R. Astafari
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 2:51pm

I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints, and then I do two laps.

I'm not interested in local
By: Baldo Wave Ring
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 2:42pm

I'm not interested in local testing. Riding with locals who are on something with there eye on something bigger benefits my own fitness. Dopeers going harder and faster, makes me faster. Dope On.

The real problem is the cost
By: Ferre Butyl
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 1:37pm

It shouldn't cost $6,000 for these tests. I'm sure a private lab could do it for a lot less.

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