Armstrong Tour Blood Values Suspicious?

by Andy Shen

Danish researcher suspicious

9/5: Damsgaard defends Armstrong, repeats dreaded ‘most tested athlete’ line.

9/4 Update 2: This is a must read.

9/4: An interesting graph posted at the cyclingnews forum, regarding the off-score. Some very good discussion here as well.

9/3 Update 2: A contrasting view from a Norwegian doctor. For some reason google translations works spectacularly with Danish and not so well with Norwegian. And surprisingly enough, I’m having trouble getting a doctor/scientist to go on record.

9/3 Update: There’s another article out now with Jakob Mørkebjerg pointing out that Armstrong’s reticulocyte numbers are also unusual, and may be indicative of EPO or transfusions. Some interesting discussion going on here as well.

9/2: A Danish paper is reporting today that "one of Denmark’s leading blood researchers believes that Lance Armstrong’s blood values from the Tour are suspicious and indicate blood doping." The blood researcher, Jakob Mørkebjerg (ominously google translated as ‘James Dark Mountain’) claims that Armstrong’s blood values stayed the same from the first day to the last day of the Tour, with a spike in the middle. Armstrong’s values fell during the Giro, but not the Tour.

Armstrong’s  Tour values are here, and his hematocrit and hemoglobin on 7/2, 2 days before the start of the race, was 42.8 and 14.3. On 7/25, one day before the last day of the race, it was 43 and 14.5. Also, 7/13 was a rest day, and his numbers rise from 40.7 and 13.7 on 7/11 to 43.1 and 14.4 on 7/14. On 7/20, another rest day, his numbers are 41.7 and 14, and then 43 and 14.5 on 7/25.

The Giro values are here. His values on 5/7, two days before the race, were 43.5 and 14.8. On 5/31, the last day of the race, those numbers were 38.2 and 13.

I hope to speak to some experts in blood doping in the next 24 hours and will report results. To be clear, we’re not making any accusations here, just passing along the article. As you can see below, there may be innocent explanations for these values.

The article is here, and below is the Google translation. If there are any Danish readers out there that can verify the accuracy of the Google translation we’d really appreciate it.

Armstrong suspicious blood values

One of Denmark’s leading blood researchers believes that Lance Armstrong’s blood values from the Tour de France looks suspicious and indicate blood doping

Lance Armstrong impressed in his Tour de France comeback this year with a third place. But maybe it was not surprising for one of Denmark’s leading blood researchers, James Dark Mountain from Bispebjerg Hospital, has looked at American’s blood values over and they can indicate the use of blood doping, "he DR gate.


Both the number of red blood cells, hematocrit and hemoglobin were essentially the same on the first day and last day of Tour’en, which is quite unusual.


Furthermore, increased hematocrit value during 11th-14th July, representing the middle of Tour’en, 40.7 to 43.1, which is also strange, does Dark Mountain.


Can also be caused by diarrhea 


– What we know from our research is that the hard work as a Tour de France will see a marked decrease of these blood values, and it seems we are not in Lance Armstrong, he says to DR, and suggests that there may be due blood transfusions.


– This does not mean that he has received it, but it could be one explanation, he says, but insists that another reason may be diarrhea or dehydration.


– But the picture the contradiction that we would normally see. Lance Armstrong’s values are unchanged from the first to the last sample, and would normally expect a decline. This fall also sees the cyclists values during the Giro d’Italia a few months before, but not so during the Tour de France.

91 Comments

RPM

Is there anywhere online we can see the same values for other riders in this year’s Tour — like Contador or Wiggins or the Schlecks (or Evans, Sastre and Menchov for that matter)?

RPM

So Wiggins dropped from about 15 to 14 in hemoglobin in this year’s Tour, while Armstrong started at 14.3 and finished at 14.5 — while both dropped in the Giro. Shouldn’t everyone drop by the end of a 3 week stage race? Is there any explanation for it not dropping?

Though of course if what Vaughters told Andreu in that famous IM chat is true, blood doping is part of the program.

Loggia Limit Screw

you’re going to need it, or rather…you’ll just pull the article at first threat (coming soon)

velocodger

There currently exists NO good test for blood doping your own blood. Convenient for those who may be capable of that sort of cheating, bad news for those who want to catch cheaters…..

Nolan Ferrule

Nothing that some personal attacks against the researcher and the reporter won’t clear up. They both are clearly pro cancer.

let it flow

people think it’s really funny but it’s really long and runny – diarrhea, toot toot, diarrhea, toot toot….

Of course, the fraidy cat journos who claim to cover cycling “hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil”.

Which leads to the question: are there any real journalists in America who care? Na. They don’t have what it takes. Anyone who follows the sport knows how many lies Deflector Man, Armfibber, told. Not one of them has ever asked him about those. Too bad Selena Roberts doesn’t follow the sport. She’s the only woman in sports who has the courage and integrity to go after the big fat lie.

Victor Skidmark

Naahhh, Pharmstrong would never cheat! ROTFLMFAO.

What a douchebag…..

I guess we’ll have to wait until LeMond kicks Trek’s ass.

West Coast Reader

I do agree it looks suspicious but without looking at the rest of the riders as a whole we really can’t make too much of it. I mean it is well known the French water promotes health on its own so all the Tour riders must be compared to see the overall benefits of both riding for hours on end and drinking up the French water does. Just like the less likelihood of cholesterol problems amongst the French even though they eat all that rich fatty food.

I think Lance is very used to the French food by now so I doubt he gets diarrhea anymore like he did pre-cancer.

They should plot out the difference between Lance and the last place finisher at least.

Bernardo Swage

42% is the new 49.5%!

Is there any data from around 2000 or later of LA’s HCT values when that was the only indicator of epo use?

It would be interesting to see if one of the riders (any of the riders) who are publishing stats now and are always in the low 40s, used to always be in the high 40’s.

Noa Topcap

Dr. Jacob Mørkebjerg, along with Dr. Bo Belhage and Dr. Rasmus Damsgaard, has spent the last three years doing research involving studying the blood values of the Tour De France riders to understand the *normal* changes that occur during a prolonged exhaustive cyling event. They have a very well documented idea of how the blood values *should* change during the event, and what abnormal changes might suggest.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18513473?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Anthony Drainhole

…yawn again…this just feeds the speculative “theorists”…

…gimme all the comparative stats you want but by god, be sure you include every mother effin’ s.o.b. that rode the mother effin’ race or just effin’ drop it…

…w/ a mouth full of vitriol,
…love, bgw,,,

Yann Sealant

I thought that he slept in one of those altitude tents. I believe that Italy wanted to make them illegal. So maybe he used one in France and not Italy. One possible explanation.

Adam Tigweld

I meant that Lance was going to sue that Foctor , not NyVelocity. I doubt he cares what this little website has to say. He will just block you on his twitterface/ friendspace account.

Jacomo Exterrutiachurrobambe

Live I said before, I don’t like Lance Armstrong but please…

“may be indicative”

C’mon now. If what you have is “may be” then you got nothing.

Whatever.

Manimal

Diarrhea certainly explains the 20-minute “shower” in France. I know I always turn on the faucets when the levee breaks.

Wiggo

from the Wiggins article:

“We understand that haematocrit levels are no longer used as a primary indicator of blood manipulation – although readings are taken, the test is no longer taken immediately, and it has been shown that storage and transit can alter the figure.”

Lukas Cogset

yup the day before the full moon and all the whacko’s come out of the woodwork. i’m going for a ride…

Danato Hammer

I’m no lance fanboy, but the article does state
“but it could be one explanation, he says, but insists that another reason may be diarrhea or dehydration.”

Dehydration after a 3 week tour, ya think???

Seriously

Lance can’t even go down when he tests positive ala ’99 tour. Were talking about global domination here.

pro roadie

The figures certainly look suspicious. The levels need more scrutiny – where are you mike ashenden when we need you? The blood levels are all over the place and we need more expert analysis.
Where can we see LA’s readings from previous years? Transparency Lance?
Stephanie wasn’t lying then was she?

burma

I recommend a good book by David Walsh called from Lance to Landis.
Those brave enough to break their silence over Lord Lance have long talked about blood transfusions along with other techniques to avoid detection. Although it’s no real defense, he’s obviously not alone.

Marius Butyl

Question: Why are there so many Lance haters?

My answer is, since when is telling the truth hate?

And this is why I bring up the OJ example. Do you think he was guilty of killing Nicole and Ron Goldman?

This isn’t a court of law here, it’s a court of public opinion.

People who are familiar with the facts of this case,(LA), and the reality of the situation as pertaining to athletic performance, have no reasonable doubt of LA’s guilt.

It’s your prerogative whether you want to argue legal niceties, but it’s my prerogative as to whether I want to keep my eyes open or closed.

Sure Lance gets the spoils of victory. Part of that is that most informed people recognize that his performances weren’t attainable unless he used PED’s and are free to call bs on them. If he or anyone else doesn’t like it, that’s too bad.

The performances aren’t believable with everything we know.

You can keep defending him, to the detriment of your own credibility.

Why you guys have to keep pointing out that he’s never tested positive, or that it hasn’t been proven in a court of law is beyond me. Everyone knows this. Oh, btw, he has tested positive.

He realized the power of drugs and the importance of dosage and timing, and I’ll bet with his mentality, it gave him more incentive to take PED’s when he decided to resume his career. Armstrong gave an interview to Walsh in April 2001, where he said he didn’t give much thought to whether his rivals were using EPO during Fleche Wallone in ’94, just an absolute absurd statement, especially coming right after Ferrari said correct use of EPO was no more dangerous than drinking OJ, that it was the abuse that was dangerous. Then in ’95 he starts working with Ferrari? Gimme a break. Ferrari provided him with expert dosage and timing, things he realized were important during his cancer treatments. It wasn’t like he was your basic gym rat, taking tons of stuff blind. I’m pretty sure his regimen was more targeted and refined. That’s what he was paying such a large percentage to his “family member” Ferrari for.

Ferrari had tremendous experience gained in a controlled environment under Conconi, with other athletes, (Moser) and experimenting on himself with Ceccini.

Robin Parisotto, the researcher who developed the EPO test and now works for the UCI running the Biopassport testing. Last week he said this

“Parisotto adds that there are so many indications that Armstrong has been doped. “The many books in which witnesses put him in connection with doping, the positive EPO tests from 1999 by the French sports newspaper L’Equipe, wrote in 2005. And then the fact that everyone around him was doped and then were he be the only one that was not – it’s hard to believe. ”

He adds that the results which showed that the Americans were doped in 1999, from a scientific point of view should be regarded as valid. “And the methods were also validated. It is clear that the question mark, the concerns about whether Armstrong was doped really is more of a legal nature than scientific. So there is scientific evidence that he was doped in 1999 that he took epo then. To deny it would be to lie. ”

http://www.feltet.dk/index.php?id_pa…id_nyhed=17128

It’s not so much the doping as the selective and capricious nature of the anti-doping effort. The sport is now more corrupt than it ever was during the doping free-for-all that were the Indurain through Armstrong years.

On one hand the UCI blackballs Hamilton by preventing employment by any Pro Tour team, and on the other hand McQuaid puts his and the UCI’s credibility on the line by guaranteeing that Contador is clean, even though Contador came out of one of the longest running teamwide doping programs and Werner Franke has the OP evidence that Contador was doping. There are so many things that can only be explained by UCI corruption, everything from the UCI taking $500K payments from Armstrong to teams getting tip offs of OOC testing to the refusal by McQuaid to test samples from the Giro for CERA. Riders on teams like Phonak can barely piss in a cup without causing a positive while riders on teams like CSC, who are obviously as juiced as Postal was in its heyday, destroy the entire peloton. Of the seven hundred or so tests that were supposed to be done in 2007, only twenty some odd had been done by the end of the season. Astana’s riders were targeted and rather easily caught in 2007, while in 2008 the UCI performed 7000 tests for its biopassport system and did not manage to catch a single rider; at the same time the AFLD was able to use a sparse amount of data to target and catch 20% of last year’s Tour stage winners. I could go on and on.

The sport has devolved to something worse than a sport that requires doping to one that requires doping and membership in a club of insiders. If you are on the outside then you are a candidate to become a scapegoat so the UCI can claim it is doing something about doping. If you are on the inside then the UCI will bend over backwards to protect you; the only thing you have to fear is a rogue police investigation. In short pro cycling is a farce. There is no sporting value whatsoever. The wins are not legitimate, not even using the rather dubious logic that it is a level playing field if everyone dopes.

Nowdays I look upon the sport more like a fake TV reality show. There is more drama in watching the players bob and weave around the latest scandal, whether it is about doping or a power struggle or a feud between riders, than there is in following the racing results.

fast n furious

holy sh@t . . . somebody in the top 10 at the Tour doped?!?!?!

News Flash – they all doped! . ! . Get with it. If you have ever worked with a pro team YOU KNOW THIS . . . .

This “debate” is old and not worthy of further comment.

Florian Seattube

I smoke 2 joints before I smoke 2 joints, and then I smoke some more….

..and then I go race in CRCA Central Park.

Hogar

I love Lance. if it wasn’t for Lance half of you would not even be cycling, the tour would be just a tour in where? Oh, France. But one thing is a constant hate, jealousy and inadequacy of some who have no life and don’t look at their own performance enhancing… I guess if it makes you feel better…

Killian Seattube

4:54 – so, 4th place Wiggins and 8th place Vande Velde? Really?

See, this is what happens to Cat 5’s when you guys haze them into believing that EVERYONE dopes, their wide eyed disbelief quickly turns to cynicism, and if only they doped too they would be winning the Vuelta right now.

Jaded Cat 4 – excitable and jaded.

Jay Mueller

As a physician, I don’t find the listed lab values either suspicious or outside the range of normal lab error. Yes, during a 3 week tour we would expect hematocrit to drop, but all of our musings are merely conjecture…these values are well within the range of variation that can be explained by alterations in total imtravasvular volume. Whether that is via dehydration or artificial manipulation due to doping is not something we are likely to figure out here. More than anything, this discusssion points to the difficulty of proving riders guilty when they do cheat and also of not pulling the innocent down unfairly with the less ethical.

Do I think cheating is rampant? Yes. Do these values merit a lot of press? No.

That one guy

I had this weird feeling that when LA came back, he was going to fuck up and get busted. No question that he’s a fraud, even people that aren’t close to the sport know that. Proving it, well that dude has a army of attorneys and the UCI in his pocket. Good luck with that.

Guillaume Threadlock

“No question that he’s a fraud, even people that aren’t close to the sport know that”

Um, as reflected in his general overall popularity or your friends? and since when do I look to people outside the sport for my opinions?

that’s some dumbass, shit, bra. FAIL!

That one guy

Let me tone that down for you a bit. I’m talking about people that generally have never raced a bicycle or know what that scene is all about nor can they really tell you what a classic is, but aren’t so naive to think that LA won any tour clean. I do have friends like that; that are familiar with what they read on cyclingnews and LA’s story, but have no idea what is autologous is or why cyclists use insulin. I’ll also point out that calling someone a ‘bra’ makes you look like a fucking idiot. So fuck you and think before you post.

Issy stinkeye

Go to the North Shore of Oahu. Walk up to the biggest Samoan moke on the beach you can find, and say, “Eh howzit brah, you like beef?”

deleted

after thinking, i still think it’s stupid to gauge his accomplishments on what those outside of the sport think. Sure, they probably don’t think the same thing about Thor Hushovd, but only because they have no idea who he is, and the only reason they doubt Lance was clean is because they (probably rightly) assume that everyone in cycling is doped to the gills.

Quentin Rubber Hood

when it is all uncovered let me know where I can get some. I want to beat the mad rush and get on line early.

Jacomo Exterrutiachurrobambe

Ok. So I’m looking at the numbers, and, well, I can see how the increase in the OFF-Score right be tour could be suspicious.

Ahem, what the is the OFF-Score. Please define.

Florian Seattube

Official French Fry score. It’s usually a test of cyclocross fitness. Clearly, Lance is ready for this year’s Staten Island event.

Sue Mee

Seeing the Armstrong-Bruyneel Complex as simply about sporting fraud is to take the short view — the future will consider them hematological pioneers on the order of the Curies, Herman Khan, or Edward Teller.

Anthony Drainhole

…in light of the ongoing bernhard kohl revelations & all the new names coming out, i fully expect to see those of you standing & shouting about armstrong from yer little soapboxes to continue directing yer vitriol against everyone else concerned…

…oh, that’s right, foolish me…it’s “all about armstrong, huh ???…

…’cuse the fuck outa me…

…love, bgw…

Matteo Bottle

Dear Sir,

Why don’t you please stick your head out of the hole out of which you drained the dribble you just wrote, Mr. Drainhole.
B. Cabbage – yes, that is English for Kohl, Mr. Hole

Jacomo Exterrutiachurrobambe

what is the off score. will Armstrong really be ready for cross? will he race Long Island, is that too far for him? he can get to Australia, but I’ll be Long Island is too far for Lance. Will there be testing at StatenCX? Waffle index?

Rayan Polished

Dear BGW, when Kohl buys off the UCI, compels teammates to dope against their will, and enforces the omerta, then I guess they’ll yell just as loud about him.

Jules Crank

What do you want to bet Bike Snob returns from vacation with lengthy post on this? Lance is feeding him talking points as we speak.

Ferre Drainhole

Armstrong is the “most tested” athlete should WADA/UCI have test results from the past? I’m interested back in the day when they tested HCT to see if riders were “unfit to race” when they were over 50%. Back when there was no proper test for EPO.
Armstrong must have always been under 50%, but I wonder if he was a 49.999999% type of guy. Since he’s now around 41-43% it would be interesting to question why his levels might have been so high back then. I’m sure that info is out there, since he’s so tested.

Lorenzo Setscrew

As obviously bizarre as the google translation is, it gets the job done. If you’ve read about these sorts of blood values in other articles before, you’ll get all of the necessary info from reading the translation instead of the original Danish version.

Readers might also want to know that Ekstra Bladet is something of a sensationalist rag–at least by Danish standards. They love controversial material, and they will definitely shoot first and ask questions later.

The truth is unheard of

The media that initially ran the story is national Danish tv station ‘DR TV’. (Ekstra Bladet only quoted certain parts)

The journaist who broke the story – is an investigative journalist with an impressive record exposing dopers.

Back in 1999+2000 he exposed Bjarne Riis (Hct 56%), Rolf Sorensen, Italian Doctor Conconi etc in ‘The Price of Scilence I-III’. Translated version from DR TV website:
http://tinyurl.com/lj3fch

Watch video clips – go to original site:
http://www.dr.dk/Sporten/Dokumentar/Doping/20050530140756.htm – in danish, italian, spanish…

Diego Compliant

Lance always looked like a machine when he was winning his 7 tours.He says he never doped,so how was he able to beat the crap out of every body else,when everybody else around him was doped? needles to say dope makes you stronger,faster,gives you more stamina,etc, etc and he says he was clean when he destroyed these other dope heads? bull@#$#@@!!!!. And I’m sure he doped this year also. third place in the toughest bike race in pro cycling at 37 years old and three years out of competition? please.

Mathys Kevlar

Oh shit, now WADA is going to have to ban diarrhea – one little brown stain and you’re out for life. I can hear it now: “he was discovered with a selection of corks in his musette” – obviously he was trying to pervert the control system.

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