Saturday, October 5, 2013
Today I got up late (7am on a Saturday is late for me, think about that before you have kids…) in order to hit the local bike shop at 7:50 (I require 45 minutes for a "kids drop off" before a ride) to ride over and catch what’s known as the "Park Ridge Ride", which starts at Cycle Sport in Park Ridge and meanders through God knows where in Northern New Jersey. (I haven’t been on enough of these rides to know the route, I just try to follow the guys who don’t have leg hair.)
As a pretend bike racer, my main goal on these pretend race/rides is to not die. (Not dying is actually a goal in almost all of my endeavors, except when I need to accompany my daughters on a shopping trip to Justice, in that case the sweet embrace of death would be a welcome alternative.) Dubious (well, not dubious really, these rides are probably not legal, according to most local laws regarding bicycle pack size—and the commonly accepted laws of decency regarding the amount of tight clothing middle aged men should don in public) legality aside, there are plenty of hazards to be found when pretend racing thru Northern New Jersey on a Saturday morning. Just being in a group of such a size can be perilous, but when you add open roads, traffic of all varieties and degrees of coffee-enhanced morning anger and a contingent hell bent on "winning " the pretend race, you have a recipe for mayhem.
Not to be a buzz kill, but there is no "winning" these pretend races, you don’t "win" Gimbals, you are simply the first person to survive it. When someone tells me that they "won" (writing about this is going to use up my keyboard’s supply of quotation marks for the year) Gimbals or the Rocket Ride or the Group Ride to the Shoney’s Dumpster for the post ride freegan buffet, I mentally roll my eyes and exhale heavily. (In my own mind, I’m a bit of a drama queen.) Oftentimes, "winning" one of these pretend races just means that you decided to ride like the biggest jerk in the pack. You took off solo, maybe you blew through intersections that no one else wanted to ride through, you passed cars stopped at a stop light or you buzzed a Nana in a crosswalk on her way to buy stamps. Congrats, feel free to collect your envelope full of oxygen from the race promoter.
This may sound like I’m anti group rides, but I’m not. I find them enjoyable ways to ride with company other than the voices in my head. And I do admit that I occasionally succumb to the temptation to pretend race these rides, but I try to limit the racing to just the finishing sprints, and only if the road is clear and I am with trustworthy associates. This is how I accomplish my pretend racing goal of not dying.
Roman’s Beer Corner
The beer corner is back! Roman has once again deigned to share his beer knowledge with we less knowledgeable sud-seekers. I hah heard rumors that he was recently involved in what’s known in the beer world as a "vertical tasting" recently, and I was psyched to hear that people still did keg stands well after their college years. I was disappointed to learn that a vertical tasting means tasting different vintages of the same beer, presumably starting with the oldest and then working your way to the less spoiled vintages. This is where a less talented writer would make a bad, "a vertical tasting would leave me horizontal" joke, but I am way above that sort of nonsense.
Roman’s selection this week is in the spirit of the "let’s shove pumpkin into everything" season (I just got some pumpkin toothpaste the the CVS), is Schlafly Pumpkin Ale. I must say it looks delicious, and I one day look forward to baking some into a pie.
The Dubuque Gran Fondo
I will be traveling to the Midwest to have some meetings discussing the notion of shoving a bunch of people I may or may not know into traffic. I will be sitting down with the Dubuque Police Department and discussing the Fondo route. The DPD has been quite diligent in their work so far, and they drove the route the other day, which prompted an email asking if I knew that a good portion of the route was gravel roads. I responded saying that yes, I was aware, because if you are going to shove people into traffic, it’s better to not use half measures. Again, I beg you to go to the DGF page and sign up for email alerts or like the DGF FaceBook page, as those actions will fool me into believeing that this is a viable endeavor.
North Jersey at the moment doesn’t have anybody promoting lost of crits the way other areas of the state do. There should be a ton of races in North NJ given its proximity to NYC and the number of cyclists in the surrounding area.
I nominate Dan as promoter and Strictly bikes as the investor
RR situation sucks – I started racing in 2009 (not the old days) and almost my entire calendar for that year is gone. Spring and Fall Bear Mtn, Housatonic, Pawling… And a number of smaller ones.
Towns got crushed in the 2008 financial crisis and are resorting to financial sodomy. Just check out “court/administrative costs” when you pay down a traffic ticket. Went from $125 in 2005 to $400 in 2010 my town. “Squeal like a pig!”
Wow, the use of “benthic nadir” in a post.
I think that qualifies as the smartest use of cocktail party words on NYVC, ever.
my college roommate girlfriend’s nephew made $57/hr promoting criteriums, road races, and fun rides on the internet. his first check was for $2060 after promoting just one gran fondo, the East Quogue Gran Fondorium and “Hot Air Balloon Bonanza”, presented by SRAM and Joe’s Hoagies in East Quogue
Was that the one where they had Ugg boots for primes?
WHy doesn’t USAC lobby to municipalities in order to help race promoers save or even make some money. That should be a full time job at USAC, done on behalf of the local promoters. The more races USAC can help the more races will stick around which is more money in their pocket. USAC should be representing race promoters in helping them to convince towns not to over charge for cops who stand around.
The maggots at USA Cycling are corrupt and stupid. The guy who runs the NRC and NCC (Micah Rice-a-Roni) isn’t qualified to work the third shift at a Dairy Queen. Promoters should unionize and stop paying the 7% and decapitate the dragon. Problem is you got deep throat lifers who, for reasons that escape yours truly scrumptious, WANT to pay the parasites at USA Cycling just so they can maintain some kind of vicarious association with the losers in Colorado Springs.
The only promoter I know who is on the same page as me insofar as beheading the infidel USAC is Dieter Drake (Battenkill).
The guys I trade emails with were putting “Burn Baby Burn” in the subject lines of their emails during the Colorado wildfires. So you better be hardcore if you want to attend my classes.
Now that we know the problem do you have any suggestions that might make racing sustainable? Referring to big events, like Sommerville where cops are needed by the dozen.
Solutions are hard to come by because promoters don’t control township fiscal decisions. The only reason AEG can pull off the Tour of California is because Medalist outsources each stage to what they call LOCs (localized organization committees). These brainwashed LOCs are somehow able to liquor up key city government officials to actually pay AEG to put on each stage of the race. This is also the same model ASO employs. It’s also the model being used in Richmond, Virginia for the 2015 world championships by Patty Cake’s bro.
This is the only model that works. Problem is few cities will swallow this shaft down to the root. East Coast cities and other large cities don’t seem to swallow this bait. San Francisco didn’t do it for Chauner, neither did Philly. Missouri stopped doing it for Medalist, as did Georgia.
The US Pro Challenge in Colorado also does this but I think this race is DOA. If it happens this year I’ll be shocked.
There are 2 other solutions, but I don’t know you riff-raff on this queer eye forum well enough to share. You gotta come to Cafe Wha? and get Diamond Dave to tell you.
Police saturation is NOT needed for a bike race. Once you have official permission to close off roads, all you need are barriers and volunteer marshals. Only a skeleton crew of police are needed and to lead the race if it’s a road race, especially if it has with rolling enclosure.
Promoters shouldn’t be paying for 100% of police costs either. The race is free to all spectators, and as such, it’s a free sporting event that takes in no gate receipts. A family event, no different than a 4th of July fireworks celebration. Instead, townships are viewing special events like bike races as another income source and unnecessarily jacking up costs by padding the invoice with badge bullies who sit around and loiter.
If you look at the Tour of Somerville, you’ll see a lot of white shirts. Those are police with high ranking positions (i.e. captains). Because Somerville is held on Memorial Day cops get triple time. Every cop you see at Somerville is making well over $120/hour (holiday + overtime). And the promoter is paying 100% of those costs. It’s insane largesse. The only person who makes more money than EVERY cop is the winner of the Pro 1-2 race, assuming he doesn’t have to split his pot with his teammies. It’s a disgrace. Townships are using special events as a new revenue stream to help offset irresponsible fiscal policies and legacy costs decades in the making that will bankrupt near every city and state in this country within the next 40 years. Cycling is collateral damage.
The part that pisses me off — and it better piss you off too — is sports like pro football actually not only do not pay for any police costs despite enjoying the presence of badges at every game, but actually receive MILLIONS of dollars in taxpayer subsidy from the city/state. And who gets this money? Billionaire football team owners who also get tens of millions in gate receipts in addition to millions from TV rights they share with the NFL. Cycling promoters get none of that.
The sport of professional cycling in the U.S. is simply not sustainable under these fiscal pressures. In addition, you got the always-corrupt USA Cycling skimming 7% off every purse and promoters need to stop giving reach-arounds to Colorado Springs by paying that and start sanctioning their race with another federation such as OBRA or FIAC.
There is no solution to this outside of only putting on races in cities that agree to waive their police fees and actually spend money to have a race put on (just like they do for a 4th of July fireworks celebration). But fewer and fewer cities seem willing to do this these days and most promoters do not want to get adversarial with city grand Pooh Bah’s to get them to waive the fees.
The future of road racing in the United States is at a benthic nadir. And I don’t see it improving in the near future. USA Cycling is clueless about these dynamics and continues to bilk dirt poor race promoters for all sorts of ancillary fees that other feds like OBRA and FIAC do not even charge.
Or, 67th on facebook, alternativelly.
No Strava route? How will I live vicariously now?? I feel so empty…
Here’s the mapmyride route, it doesn’t jibe very well with our pages.
http://www.mapmyride.com/workout/401603901
Looks like there’s a Ridgewood crit course in the link. Have you (or anyone) ever thought about trying to promote a downtown crit in a town like Ridgewood or Ho-Ho-Kus – total pipe dream or a possibility?
How bout not a crit, but a RR (aka Real Race).
Happy belated Eli, pray tell, what did you get, what did you do? Enquiring minds want to know!
Promoting crits is a great way to become tremendously poor.
Kevin, if you think a crit isn’t a real race maybe you should cat up and try a real crit. I’ve done a few NCC races and they aren’t easy. They are just simply different. Which is why you never see road races at crits and crit racers at RRs.
A Ridgewood crit has been explored. Looking at about $2,000-$2,500/hr to close roads. Also Ridgewood Bike Shop has zero interest in helping put on a race in their town, despite the potential for a sweet twlight event. It’s hard to find race sponsors when the local shop wont lend a hand. Ho ho Kus is a better location, but still tough because of major roadways (Frnkln Tpke).
Rockland Lake needs a circuit race. How can we make this happen? Would be amazing
Closing roads is very expensive, and rider entries won’t cover it. You need to find a sponsor to cover costs. That’s how you make it happen.
Schmalzzzz… talking like a promootteeerrrrr
That’s just math talking there. Unless you want to pay a $300 entry fee to ride a race.
I know you come from the world Von Maur but it’s spelled Gimbels.
you for police now.
and it’s very expensive.
Point of metaphorical procedure: maggots consume dead flesh, parasites such as leaches consume living.
Imagine a venue where you can race 3-5 times for like $40. Where you dont have to wake up at the ass-crack of dawn. A place where there is no chance to crash into some jogging hedge-fund douche with the latest noise canceling head phones. A race where a truly competitive bike is $1400(new). Races where your family/friends can watch the entire race from start to finish. Competition that favors short workouts as opposed to five hour, divorce producing training rides to parts unknown — which transfer well to crit and CX racing. Etc Etc.
Try the track. We like roadies. We will welcome you as you will make our niche of cycling more better.
Track as divorce-preventer? Gee, who knew?
You can truly compete on a $1400 road bike…
This fellow talking about US Cycling using regular sexual metaphors is rather off-putting. Just saying. It might be more useful to be a touch less crude when you make your points, sir.
What are the chances of me being less crude given my screen name? I’d say pretty low.
great posts but his handle smells fishy
Yo man, smell my finger.
In NYC I know that in the past, not sure about now, you didn’t have to pay for cops. You basically got a parade permit and the cops came included in your permit fee. So putting on a race in NYC should have lower costs. The problem as cunt says is that you need to close streets. Trying to find a location where you can close streets for a day long even is not easy. And if you think about it, what neighborhood would want that? For 8 hours or so you inconvenient a lot of people.
USA cycling has been a mess for many years now. The guys with the hands up the puppets ass are the same ones who were running the teams that all got caught with their hands in the pharmaceutical bag. Just like the UCI needs to be cleaned out to help fix the pro sport, USA cycling needs to be cleaned out. Too much of the members money goes to support the organization which is heavily biased towards a few pro teams. Les Ernest saw this developing and tried to stop it, but his wallet was not as big as the guys running USA cycling.
There is money to be made promoting bicycle races, but you need to be very careful to control costs and get sponsors. The guys you see promoting races now have figured this out, but still need to stay on top of things to keep costs in check.
I disagree that the UCI and USAC need to be cleaned out. Teams and riders simply need to stop associating with them. The way to kill these organizations is to stop sending them your money.
Once you send them your money, you are tacitly supporting them. And since neither USAC or the UCI allow members to vote, there is no way to vote anyone out of office.
Better yet, give your business to a competitor league, like FIAC or OBRA.
NO WAY are police free for bike races in New York City (or any other city). Philadelphia charges Chauner something on the order of $390,000 for police fees for his one day race on a 14-mile circuit. BTW, half of Kelly Drive on the south side of the bike race (the parallel road across the river) is shut down every Sunday just for recreational cyclists and runners (and serial rapists if that’s your cup of tea).
San Francisco wanted over $100,000. In both cases, the police costs was the #1 reason that led to the cancellation of both races. So this isn’t some minor thing I’m just making up as I go along. This is Johnny Holmes huge.
And all NRC races also have huge police fee issues. Fitchburg Longsjo was arguably cancelled because organizers couldn’t afford the police costs.
And like I told you, New York City wanted to charge organizers of the Five-Boro Tour in May 1 million dollars. Here’s the links:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/boro-bike-tour-doubt-article-1.1304638
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/boro-bike-tour-doesn-pay-1m-police-fee-judge-article-1.1312683
http://gothamist.com/2013/04/10/5_boro_bike_tour_spared_the_nypds_1.php
rockland lake circuit race would be far less amazing than racing in central park.
I’ve been ‘organizing a Gran Fondo’ this morning. Lemme find a newspaper and check the results.
Northern NJ races would be great, but there’s not a lot of sponsor dollars going around, and it’s expensive to shut down towns for races.
And it is not like we didnt have some: park ridge, hackensack, nutley, state road races. It was all doable with enough sweat and dollars.
As a former crit promoter in Jersey and all around smart mouth know-it-all, let me school you Brooklyn punks on a thing or two about the bike promoting biz. Here’s why promoting crits is getting harder and harder and why road races have dies a slow death in the tar pits.
First and foremost, townships view these special events as a way to make money. Paying NJ cops $55/hour to spectate a bike race is what is killing the bike race promotion business, and not just in Jersey but EVERYWHERE. The Tour of Somerville pays mo’ money to the police (about $25,000) than it does in prize money to cyclists. These police fees are NOT optional and are the number one reason promoters are throwing in the towel. This model is simply not sustainable.
Schmalz also hit the nail on the head when he interviewed the Jackie Simes dynasty: road racing offers no gate receipts to organizers. All the money has to come from sponsorships. Throw in your occasional doping scandal every week for the past 17 years and after a while the only sponsors left are Joe’s Hoagies and SRAM.
The city of New York wanted to charge organizers of the TD Bank Five Boro Tour in May, get this — $1 million — for police costs. Yes, one million. Dollars. Fortunately the promoters sued the city and won (based on the fact that they were a 501c3 non-profit). But this is the kind of money grab that is killing the sport. Ask John Eustice about it if you don’t believe me.
Even the late Dave Chauner was done in by the city of Philadelphia’s greed to hit him with a police bill of over $300,000 for a 1-day race. Just for police costs alone! Do you know how many arrests are made every year at Philly bike race by police? None that I know of. Ever. That’s right, none. Yet he is hit with a revolving door bill of $300K just to close down the streets for 6 hours by badge bullies.
This greed trend by politicians looking to kickback money to police will continue and has contributed to the cancellation of many races, from Tour de Toona to Fitchburg Longsjo. None of these races have any chance of being resurrected.
Even putting on a crit is, as Schmalz says, a way to become tremendously poor… it’s still ridiculously expensive and difficult to get a good venue (townships are usually dickheads about closing off roads). These days, promoters are simply recycling entry fees from the Cat 5’s through the Cat’s 3’s and all Masters events to fund the pro races. This makes racing for all those lower categories a lose-lose situation.
There are other reasons I could mention, but I have to go surf for porn now while sipping my coffee in my industrial-size stainless steel construction foreman’s mug. See ya later, effin alligators. Yeah, I know it doesn’t exactly rhyme, but what you gonna do about it tough guy?
Spot on man!!! Great post. With that sort of accuracy and candor, there’s no need for you to have to rhyme! Keep bringing it!!!!
OP – what a tool years later same tool.
If only there were some kind of venue which didn’t require cops… Perhaps enclosed. It would have to be smallish. Maybe banked turns…
They exist. they are called park races. we are damn lucky to have them.
give a bow to the fine gentlemen and his quite illuminating post on the challenges of putting on races (see below at 10:03pm).
EOM
Make it free. We deserve it.
I pay an entry fee to have a fun time racing.
A lot of you packfill slackers will disagree with me but the main reason cyclocross is becoming more and more popular in the U.S. is because there are no police fees and limited public works costs associated with promoting those mud events. These grass park(ing lot) crits are cheap to promote in comparison to road races and stage races.
The same fiscal constraints apply to why crits are more popular than road races: police costs and road closures are MUCH lower in the former. So it’s not that they are more popular. It’s that the consumer (slacker cyclists) are being forced to ride their bike on mud and grass.
It’s important for everyone on Team Cutters to understand the mechanism at work that is driving the sport away from road races. And it’s not a good reason.
Okay, go back to diving in the granite quarry.
@ “I pay an entry fee to have a fun time racing.”
Sorry, you must have cycling confused with the clowns who run 5k’s dressed in Halloween costumes like some basement nerd at Comic Con whose keyboard would light up under an ultraviolet semen light like the football stadium where Dirty Harry shot Scorpio…. or 5% of the jackasses who run marathons dressed like a 9 year old trick-or-treater.
There’s no fun in a bike race, son. I want you as serious as Jackie Earle Haley in Breaking Away or you need to hang up your cleats and hit the showers in the Roubaix velo. Your homework assignment is to watch video clips of Hinault jumping off the podium at the Tour to keep those 99%’er protestors in line.
Lance should have taught you at least that much. If you disagree with me, I’ll make a call your sponsor and get your 15% discount on Michelin clinchers revoked.
If you can’t take your girl to Burger King because you spent your last $30 on a race entry fee you’re a dumb ass.
has Eli found a team to support his bid for Cat2?
Eli rides with his guns out
If you are racing local cat 3 crits as a money making scheme, there is something wrong with you. Like, you have no concept of money as well as time.
Lighten up, Dr. Dick. Cat. 3’s aren’t racing ONLY for the money. But if they get a top 10, they like to know that they can at least take their gash out and stuff a burger and fries down her throat and then have a little left over to buy her a Zumba outfit from the lululemon website.
Without prize money, there’s no point in paying an entry fee.
dumpster diving can be good off-season cross training. lifting odd-shaped trash bags and boxes, plyometrics jumping in and out of the dumpster. if you are on a freegan diet, thats a good opportunity to save money for next season’s entry fees and stay lean
did you win?
I agree with c*&^ on many things, except for factoring in clotheswashing time into your total time spent riding. That’s whack
Who are you (skeptic look)….
like my college roommate said about his gf’s nephew, $57/hr for promoting internet bike events has got to be some sort of flim-flam operation. His first check, drawn off the bank of Osho, unfortunately bounced and now he can’t pay the police in East Quogue
I ythought we did vote people in or out of USAC? WHat’s sad is the organization is set up perfectly to help promoters. They have the resources, staff and structure along with a nice website :-). Such a shame that so much is left on the promoter’s lap.
I’m learning things in our comments section, how is this possible?
isn’t dead
Alexander Swage — I didn’t say Chauner was dead. But his Philly race (aka Corestates, First Union, Wachovia, TD Bank) was cancelled for the first time last year in its previously uninterrupted 28-year history. That’s a game changer for the Don of the East Coast Cycling Syndicate. And he’s currently be sued by the family of his late business partner Gerry Casale with whom he started the event back in 1985..way back when Eric Heiden won in toe clips. Damn, that’s old school. The city of Philadelphia is also calling in their bill of $320,000 for police fees (Chauner supposedly already paid $60K+). Don’t quote me on the exact numbers.
The current race in Philly (sponsored by PARX Casino) has nothing to do with Dave Chauner. It’s run by some Philly politico stooge with Robin Morton once again serving as the cigarette girl dressed in a Playboy bunny outfit (same thing she did for Chauner for 15 years).
FYI, Chauner had Parx in his back pocket and could have easily cultivated them as a sponsor since Parx sponsored his race back in 2010 (or 2011?). I have a difficult time seeing Parx as a long-term sponsor, although I’ve been wrong before (rare).
Just take a closer look at a local crit: Grant’s Tomb. I believe Colombia Uni used to sponsor and organize it. Last year it was done by CRCA. They most have paid a fortune to close the streets and remove the cars around the tomb. With 400 members contributing $100 a year that leaves them with $400K a year from members, which is an amount I have seen in the comment section for police costs of other race/ crits.
Isn’t that in oregon? Why would I join that?
OBRA might have been a stretch, but you can join FIAC instead. Honestly, you New York Empire state hoodlums should start your own amateur cycling federation. Cut USA Cycling’s infidel’s throat with one fell swoop of your Bear Gryllsâ„¢ survival knife.
oh and get this… when you race at a UCI 2.2 Europe Tour race (and probably all other continental circuits) you pay ZERO race fees…. All you do is show up and race… The promotor (more likely sponsors/country) pays for your hotel and food, even your shuttle from the airport…. Why is USAC charging us $35 a pop for shit races, when the UCI will pay you to race (provided you get the invite)?
Kevin Tracknut: It’s not USA Cycling that is charging you money but the individual promoter. That fees goes towards police costs (something which European promoters rarely if ever pay). USA Cycling also siphons 7% off the total purse for reasons that have yet to be explained to me (other than promoters are spineless and cave to the queer urge to be vicariously associated with an Olympic federation). And the rest goes towards subsidizing the purse of the Pro 1-2 field, insurance (usually $1/rider), officials fees, and race overhead.
Keep in mind that literally every bike race is staffed by 100% volunteer road marshals. And even with this benefit, promoters are lucky if they stay in the black.
For decades, lower amateur categories and Masters have been subsidizing the purses of the Pro 1-2 fields. And this is not a good long-term strategy for reasons that do not merit discussion.
Ok so how did the Europeans (and the rest of the world) manage to not pay the police? Its not a novel idea, just copy and paste from across the pond and do the same thing here…
Kevin Tracknut: The Europeans don’t have to pay millions of dollars to subsidize every football, basketball, and baseball stadium in their city. So they choose to give their athletic welfare to sports like cycling and soccer.
Cycling is viewed as a stepchild sport in the U.S. and cities view it as a way to pad the overtime costs of cops and public works hard hats. This trend is only getting worse.
Look at all the NRC races canceled recently: Tour de Toona, Fitchburg, Elk Grove, Exergy Tour, Nature Valley GP… these races are not being replaced. Do they even have a road race in Harriman anymore (Bear Mountain)? Killington? Hammonton? The Ronde Whatever in south Jersey?
Only big companies like AEG via Medalist Sports seem to have the cache to strongarm city governments into waiving their police fees. They install these Kool-aid drinking LOCs (local organizing committees) in each city and they get them drunk on waiving all the fees because everybody jacks off to coming into contact with the shadow of a pro cyclist. But that only works if you can get the big pros (read doped to the gills) to roll into town.
The best way to promote a race in the tristate is to shop around for townships who are willing to waive fees. But you won’t find such cities in NJ or NY. You gotta go out to California and Colorado to find that kind of town council. On the East Coast, special events are viewed as a cash skimming racket for the mob mentality that runs virtually every city government. That’s why all you see are crits on the East Coast.
And in the most recent crit down the Jersey Shore (Tour de Fair Haven), you had a Cat. 5 rider die when he collided with an official (Dan Donnelly) who ran out onto the course:
http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2013/10/shrewsbury_firefighter_dies_from_injuries_sustained_in_tour_de_fair_haven_race.html
There are plenty of us who give less than zero fucks about the stick and ball sports. If we don’t attack the root, we are just attacking symptoms – how do we give the sport of cycling the profile it deserves here in the States? Part of the problem is that pro cycling coverage on TV does such a shit job of educating joe sixpack on what makes this sport great.
I will say that despite the loss of so many awesome races over the last 5 years (Bear, Housatonic, Pawling, and more), one promising trend is the use of motorsports facilities for bike racing. Lime Rock in CT had a circuit race this year. There is also NJ Motorsports park in central NJ and several ‘rich guy’ private tracks upstate that may be willing to host a bike race. Just food for thought.
Bernardo Crank — Problem with all those venues you suggest is they lack panache from a spectators standpoint. You can’t relegate a race parcours to the back alleys of a region and then expect it to morph popular. You gotta have bike races strung out down Main Street, like the ING NYC marathon, Boston Marathon, etc.
Once you put a race on in some private nature preserve, you’re already alienating the public and turning it into a gated community sport.
Alan Atwood put a race on a race track in CT. CRCA supported him by adding a late race at FBF to go up against him. Rather than support a member, official and promoter grow a newer venue they chose to add another race at Floyd.
Worry about the day when the city finally kicks us out of the parks. We’ll be driving three hours to a race most weekends like most areas of the country.
If you can’t charge admission then who cares about the spectators. Focus on your customers (i.e. the bike racers who pay $30+ a pop) and choose a course with low traffic and some terrain to keep it interesting. In Belgium registration is $5 and they race in the outskirts of town.
If you’re going promote a sustainable model for cycling in the US, at least model it on one that is flourishing like in Europe. They race in the “back alleys” and the country, only part in town is the start finish. When it becomes popular, the spectators will come… only then it will be ones that are actually interested in cycling, rather than ones who noticed it was happening on their main st.
Tom Boonen: Blue-chip sponsors care about venue spectators. That’s why big city events will always command more sponsorship top dollars than a race held in a corporate parking lot.
Also, although you cannot charge for admissions, generally speaking, you can charge for VIP tents and VIP caravan rides.
The type of race you are talking about is fine for training, but it’s not gonna help the budget of a race promoter who wants to go big and pro teams won’t get on an airplane to come race it.
The calendar is clogged with too many trash can criteriums. Criteriums are not the future of the sport and do not make for good television.
$400K, wow you are bad at math.
Is racing in the UCI Europe Tour a high enough Cat for you? Never said NCC races are easy, just said a crit defeats the enjoyment of getting on a road bike… you can do circles around your block on a razor scooter, why not make that a crit?
I’d watch a crit on tv (assuming it was aggressively raced which most are). It would be way more entertaining than watching a flat or middle road stage for hours and hours.
Athens twilight or Presby on TV was way more interesting than watching an average stage of the TDF. In a long RR the only really interestingp parts are mile 1 when the breaks are trying to form and miles 10 to go -> finish. Otherwise, it’s boring as F*** and you have to be a real cycling fan to tolerate it. A good crit is great to watch, especially fi you understand how difficult it can and the technicality of the course. I think your belief that crits are junk is very off base. Btw, the longest running race in america is a crit. Crits are logistically easier than big road races. And lets face it, unless the world tour comes to race, no one is going to travel to the middle of the Oregon woods to watch the Cascade cycling classic. No matter how many big domestic teams show up. The spectators will however, show up to races like Elk Grove andone day events like Philly all because they offer sponsors and spectators something exciting in a populated place like “the wall”. If you take the exact same race as philly and move it to the middle of the woods, no one will care no matter who shows up.
“In a long RR the only really interestingp parts are mile 1 when the breaks are trying to form”
This is often the MOST interesting part of a race. Why don’t they figure out a way to show more of this on the TV coverage? Film the first 20K – then show this first 20K when the TV coverage starts later in the day, skip the crap in the middle, then cut right to the finale?
at $95 a pop, has dieter figured out what it really costs to run a road race?
Cunt, you also say that the lower amateur categories often support the 1/2 purse. You may be right a good portion of the time, but perhaps you’ve been away from racing for too long. These days the 1/2 field is usually the largest field with the exception of springtime races. Also, the 1/2 entry fees tend to be andywhere from $10-$20 more expensive than the lower categories. Look at Orchard Beach, Fair Haven to name some races not part of a national calendar.
Bernardo Tank: There is not a single race I can think of where the entry fee from the lower categories is not used to fund the Pro 1-2 purse. It’s become a commonplace practice by all promoters, especially at the NRC level where it shouldn’t be happening.
I also find it very difficult to believe the Pro 1-2 field is the biggest. It might have more riders in it than the Cat. 5 or Masters 45+ race, but it definitely doesn’t have more in it than all the other fields combined.
When you do the math (rider entry fee divded by number of riders, vs. total purse), you find out that the return on entry fee for prize money in every category per rider is a fraction of what it is for the Pro 1-2 field.
There is no way a promoter should be charging a $30 entry fee for the Cat. 5 race and offering a $500 purse (say 10 deep) and the same entry fee for the pro 1-2 field with a $10,000 purse, 20 deep. At least have the decency to lower the entry fee for the Cat. 5 rider to $15. But that’s not what is happening because promoters are using all the other categories as prostitutes.
And in races like Somerville, all the categories are filled to max. Yet we still see this same prize money discrepancy.
Are Cat. 5 racers really going around paying $30/weekend for the mere chance to maybe win $70 if you get third place?
There is no question the purse for the Pro 1-2 field should be higher, after all the races are longer and competition is deeper. But they should NOT be funded by the other race categories who are forced to pay the same entry fee.
I’m happy that I typically avoid long road races. The cost is nuts.= when compared to a crit. But again, different types of races, different types of riders.
Re: cost savings, while purses are not the big problem, they do contribute to the cost. So, aside from major races trying to attract serious, full-time pros, just do away with the purses. You’ll reduce costs by the amount of the purse + the 7% USAC is stealing away, and few riders are going to refuse to race because of the absence of a purse.
Eli rode a good trash can criterium
For the first time in a while, c*nt is making sense to me.
If you think road races & crits are expensive, don’t forget to add in 50% of your total assets plus all the bullshit attorney fees. When your wife divorces your sorry ass because you spend at least 15 hours away from her and the kids each week, training for what the fuck nobody knows, the bill for cycling as a serious hobby starts to really add up.
I might suggest competitive cooking classes for the type A fixation. At least you can feed your family with your efforts.
Sam Seatpost: 15 hours/week? Once you throw in maintenance hours and the fact that to simply attend a 20-mile crit across the Hudson will take 9 hours out of your Saturday…you’re more realistically looking at 20-25 hours/week. Don’t forget to factor in the 2 hours of extra sleep you need each day because of your massive training loads, and fact that your grocery bill has to be doubled each month.
And it’s pushing 40 hours/week when you include the 12 hours a week you MUST spend on cycling news.com, Velonews, and nyvelocity to quell your incessant thirst for cycling gossip and to slap down any punks who need an attitude adjustment on the website forums.
Even guys like Horner were served divorce papers, and he was bringing home the bacon.
hey cunt,
Cat 5s aren’t racing for a chance to win any money. They just get thropies.
if you’re seriously dedicating 40hrs a week of your life to cycling, you’re either a trust fund baby, retired, or got an obamaphone stuffed in your jersey and are on “disability.”
Sam Seatpost — Most people who say they only ride 15 hours/week are really dedicating twice that much time when you factor in stretching, maintenance, pumping up your tires, driving to races, sleeping an extra 2 hours/day, washing your clothes, uploading your watts/GPS to Strava, showering twice a day, extra laundry, website nonsense (like this), packing your gear for races, etc.
Just to attend a single criterium in NJ on a weekend will take 9 hours out of your day when you factor in getting up early, packing your bike gear, driving there, sitting in traffic for an hour, waiting at the race, driving back, sitting in more traffic, stopping to get something to eat, getting gas, dropping your teammate off, unpacking his gear, driving back home, unpacking your gear. If your race is at 10:00 am, you are leaving the house at 6:30 a.m. and you won’t be back until 3:30 pm. You can’t just factor in how much time you have in the saddle.
People have no concept of time. Even going to the convenience store 2 miles down the road will take me 25-30 minutes if I actually time it. But if you ask people how long they THINK it takes them, they will tell you only “5 minutes.” Wrong.
frederico Lorica — Many Cat. 5’s are racing for money (although definitely the 3’s and Masters are). And if they’re not, why are they paying the same entry fee as the guys who race for $10,000?
What does a Cat. 5 get out of all that traveling just to show up to a race at 7:00 a.m. and ride for 12 miles around a city block?
I won’t even get into how much it costs when you wreck your bike or bandages at CVS.
Even former winner of the Pro 1-2 race at the Tour of Somerville, Brian Moroney, was racing as a Cat. 3 only 2 years later because he couldn’t deal with the time commitment of being a Cat. 2, and preferred to sandbag for the easier money.
I don’t know what to tell you. Having never been a 5 I can’t speak to the mindset. Being it’s only for 10 finishes it doesn’t seem like that big a deal to prove that can somewhat safely navigate on their bikes. That there aren’t mandatory clinics is another story.
Cat 5s race for trophies.
“USA cycling intends for category 5 to be a “try it†category for new racers to gain experience and transition out of. As an incentive to move up to category 4 and above, 5s are not permitted to receive prizes of value (cash or merchandise) and may only be awarded trophies, medals or certificates.”
Personally I’d rather promoters lower costs and give out jerseys and medals.
Guys should race because they like to race. It’s a hobby. It isn’t an income stream.
Yeah… No… You’re very wrong.
Bigger cross races sell out fields with in hours. No one is forcing people. If road racing could have half the participant enthusiasm of cyclocross it wouldn’t be in so much trouble at the grass roots level.
First, let me compliment you on your fine choice for a screen name. But let’s agree on one thing: there is no road race scene on the East Coast to be in trouble. It’s been replaced by merry-go-rounds (crits) and Woodstock carnivals (cyclocross).
Problem is: this is not the direction to go in to advance the sport. Road racing is where it’s at. What you are saying is the equivalent of a runner saying that the ING marathon isn’t where it’s at… the future of running is 5k’s in parks run by drunk college students ringing cowbells like some faux drunk Euro.
I will take those cow bells away from you people unless you start comporting yourself better. Don’t talk to me like one of the doped TOGA riders at the Prospect Park crit.
Yeah, bigger cross races sell out fields because cyclists are into fads bigtime. And cyclocross is the equivalent of the mid 1990’s mountain bike fad. You are all rollerbladers in 1994. I bet half of the cross riders have thought about getting a tramp stamp tattoo.
The reason mud races are so popular is because the cuntsumer (slacker cyclists) don’t have the option of racing a quality road event. You’re like a lifer in prison saying everyone in D Block seems to prefer sleeping in their cells rather than going out on the town and getting a hotel suite with a couple of hookers from backpage.
Most mud racers are so desperate for that race fix that they tourniquet off their arm and get high on mud events. All you got with cross popularity is a bunch of heroin addicts and prison inmates. Your locked up and can’t get out.
92.7% of road cyclists can’t even afford to keep their racing bike and racing wheels in top condition, so now they go out any buy a second rig that requires massive bearing overalls after each mud flap event?
All you mud racers are crying out for an intervention. And I’m the guy who wants to take those cowbells away from you.
Real road racers don’t do cyclocross in the winter. They go down to Caribbean with their teen girlfriend and swim with dolphins. The rest of the winter is spent transferring wealth you got from insider trading to bank accounts in the Cayman Islands.
If you race cross it means you evidently didn’t ride enough asphalt to get burned out during the road season. In other words, you’re a slacker. A crit monkey.
bwhaahaha. Some of these posts are wicked funny.
is cunt the new Eli? Loving it.
BTW agree with just about everything he’s said. Crits are fun and hard, but really, they’re the NASCAR of bike racing… and I mean that in the most pejorative sense possible.
There is some overlap between guys racing road and guys racing cross but at this point cross is it’s own thing. It’s doing well. Feel free to continue and mumble nonsense to your self. No one cares.
Like Times Square, cross used to be more fun. Agreed, more road races especially in the fall.
Much better writer than Eli
“cross is it’s own thing?!” you’re high.
When people started wearing matching clothes without irony was the end of the good times of cross. Same with mountain biking…
anyone have a recipe for a poor man’s pot belge? so far i’ve got caffeine pills and aspirin crushed in an airplane bottle of christian brothers brandy, chased with a schooner of this pumpkin ale, and a one-hitter. should be good for cross
Axel O-Ring — No need for pot belge, Axel. Autologous transfusions are the way to go and USADA still can’t detect them. Remember, a blood transfusion cannot be detected from a urine sample. It has to be a blood sample, which USADA doesn’t even do in their OOC tests.
Here are the rules:
1.) Remove a maximum of 1 quart of blood every 2 weeks for 1 month.
2.) Store blood in sterile hospital grade blood bag with either EDTA or heparin to keep the blood from coagulating (available on the Internet).
3.) Refrigerate immediately for no longer than 45 days. Do NOT freeze.
4.) Re-infuse both bags of blood the night before a road race and laugh as you drop your clueless competitors.
5.) Laugh at the USADA rep who pulls you aside and tells you are being controlled.
6.) Give wild quotes to the media and your teammates like, “Sorry you don’t believe in miracles…”
7.) If anyone calls into question your sudden jump in ability, you call up their sponsor and get their 10% clothing discount pulled by threatening the sponsor with false accusations if he doesn’t.
8.) When you start winning big races, start alienating yourself from your teammates and break up with your current girlfriend and go find a thinner version who looks exactly like her. Make sure your ex sees the new girl.
Cunt Training Systems
(CTS)
When people started giving a shit what other people wore was the end of the good times of cross. Same with mountain biking…